The way I see it, there are 4 levels of wrestling legends

[BigDaddyCool]

From what I can tell is that there are 4 level of wrestling legends or icons or whatever you want to call them. The top level or tier are the undeniable legends. The guys everyone know, not just wrestling fans, but non wrestling fans as well. Of course I could only be refering to Hogan, Flair, Rock, and Austin.

The second tier is more of guys that are over with the marks, and you can build a promotion around. Non-wrestling fans are probably familar with their names, but that is about it. Names like Harley Race, Dusty Rhodes, Undertaker, Shawn Micheals, Savage, HHH, Sting, and Kevin Nash.

The 3rd tier are guy who are good, really good but just not great. We kid ourselves sometimes and think they are great, but deep down we know they are just really good. You can't quiet base an entire promotion around them, but they still bring a ton to the table. Guys like Booker T, Mick Foley, Piper, Steamboat, Scott Hall, Jericho, and Benoit.

Then there is the 4th tier. I would actaully put the 4th tier on the same level as the 3rd, but it is a completely different group. These are the guys who because insanely popular but have no staying power and are basically one trick ponies. But their one trick made them reival the populatiry of the top tier for a short time. Of course I mean guys like Goldberg, Ultimate Warrior, and Brock Lesner. You know, these are the guys who got built prefectly, but as soon as they tried to step out of the one dimenisional characters they were built as the colaspe so they go back to the original forumal, but every time it gets less and less of a pop.

Discuss.

[Corporate CockSnogger]

Alright that innit

[Stickman]

I know Tivo is going to hate on me for this, but Nash is not a teir two, I'd say 3 at best.

I think you're bang on though. But....where's Bret? You can't deny he'd be in probably teir 2

[BigDaddyCool]

I know Tivo is going to hate on me for this, but Nash is not a teir two, I'd say 3 at best.

I think you're bang on though. But....where's Bret? You can't deny he'd be in probably teir 2

Yeah, Bret is in tier 2. I'm not saying that they are set in stone, and I didn't mention a ton of guys. I was talking to ToVo and he says Andre deserves to be in tier 1. Also there is Angle, not sure where he goes.

[Stickman]

Andre 1, Angle 2

[BigDaddyCool]

I can live with that.

[The One]

I know Tivo is going to hate on me for this, but Nash is not a teir two, I'd say 3 at best.

I think you're bang on though. But....where's Bret? You can't deny he'd be in probably teir 2

I didn't know your TV recording device had such strong feelings about Nash. :p

No but I think Nash could be either a tier 2 or 3...kind of depends what era you're talking about. As a WWE guy he was 3 (arguments could be had that he was a 4 even), as a WCW guy he was a 2...a solid 2 at that.

And yeah, BDC is right, I hold firm that Andre is the 5th person in the tier 1 category. In fact, I would argue he belongs there more than Hogan does. To me, Hogan is kind of a tier 4 guy who was constantly pushed so hard, for so long, by so many DIFFERENT people that he became a default tier 1 guy.

This is all very subjective at best however. Still, there could be a alot of strong argument that any legend could fall into almost any category...EXCEPT Andre, that man is a tier 1, no questions asked IMO.

[BigDaddyCool]

This is all very subjective at best however. Still, there could be a alot of strong argument that any legend could fall into almost any category...EXCEPT Andre, that man is a tier 1, no questions asked IMO.

I don't care who you are, but tier 1 is pretty much locked down with those 5 guys. Also, tier 4 is fairly obovious who goes in there, the real flash in a pan guys that are build as monsters and after that one fateful lose they are nothing afterwards.

It is tier 2 and 3 that I still see room for debate. Some might say Piper deserves to be tier 2, I personally don't see it, but I bet someone could make a great argument.

[Stickman]

Was Piper not like a mega heel in his early feuds with Hogan? Without a foe, the top guys aren't there.

Oddly, Andre seems to be the name everybody knows. Non wrestling fans have heard Andre the Giant.

[BigDaddyCool]

Was Piper not like a mega heel in his early feuds with Hogan? Without a foe, the top guys aren't there.

Oddly, Andre seems to be the name everybody knows. Non wrestling fans have heard Andre the Giant.

Yeah, that is my point. I think Piper is important, that is clear by me naming him, but I don't know how important.

And Andy the Gnat is a legend.

[#1-norm-fan]

I think an argument could be made for Piper being in the first tier. Maybe even over Flair. I'm basing this simply on the fact that I'm fairly confident that more non-wrestling fans have heard of Piper than Flair.

Also, McMahon is first tier. Don't know if you're just including wrestlers though.

[CSL]

I would say the only names, or at least the most consistently known names people know outside of wrestling are Rock and Hogan.

[BigDaddyCool]

I think an argument could be made for Piper being in the first tier. Maybe even over Flair. I'm basing this simply on the fact that I'm fairly confident that more non-wrestling fans have heard of Piper than Flair.

Also, McMahon is first tier. Don't know if you're just including wrestlers though.

Piper is not over Flair.

And fuck Vince. I'm tired of talking about legends of wrestling and someone says what about Vince? When you are talking about legends of boxing does Don King get metioned? When you are talking about who is great in MMA, does Dana White get metioned? When you are discussing football greats do you say Lamar Hunt? When you talk about legends of baseball, do you say Stienbrener? Vince is a fucking legendary promoter and personality, but he is not a goddamn wrestler, fuck. In the list of guys I named above (in the tiers, not just now) does it give any indicaition I was including non-wrestlers? No.

[BigDaddyCool]

I would say the only names, or at least the most consistently known names people know outside of wrestling are Rock and Hogan.

Are you retarded? How many knock off Austin shirts have their been promoting none wrestling things? And have you never seens an OBEY poster?

[#1-norm-fan]

wrestling legends... sounds to me like it is stating a LEGEND in the world of WRESTLING.

Now if you had worded it, legendary wrestlers, then it doesn't include non-wrestlers but unless stated otherwise, wrestling legends is pretty self-explanitory.

And by your defintion of a top tier guy, Piper is probably above Flair. Of course people will blindly see the word "wrestling" in a sentence and throw a hissy fit when someone is mentioned over the almighty Ric Flair but I actually took the time to read the topic and by your definition, it is more than debatable.

[#1-norm-fan]

I would say the only names, or at least the most consistently known names people know outside of wrestling are Rock and Hogan.

Fuck arguing Austin...

Who doesn't know of Andre The Giant!?

[BigDaddyCool]

wrestling legends... sounds to me like it is stating a LEGEND in the world of WRESTLING.

Now if you had worded it, legendary wrestlers, then it doesn't include non-wrestlers but unless stated otherwise, wrestling legends is pretty self-explanitory.

And by your defintion of a top tier guy, Piper is probably above Flair. Of course people will blindly see the word "wrestling" in a sentence and throw a hissy fit when someone is mentioned over the almighty Ric Flair but I actually took the time to read the topic and by your definition, it is more than debatable.

No, Flair is in the top, and Piper...I don't know maybe it is only because I see Piper coming back and never saw him in his prime but he doesn't look as awesome as everyone says he is.

[Xero]

Piper is not over Flair.

And fuck Vince. I'm tired of talking about legends of wrestling and someone says what about Vince? When you are talking about legends of boxing does Don King get metioned? When you are talking about who is great in MMA, does Dana White get metioned? When you are discussing football greats do you say Lamar Hunt? When you talk about legends of baseball, do you say Stienbrener? Vince is a fucking legendary promoter and personality, but he is not a goddamn wrestler, fuck. In the list of guys I named above (in the tiers, not just now) does it give any indicaition I was including non-wrestlers? No.
Vince McMahon has wrestled more than a handful matches, has held two world titles and was the focus, along with Austin, of arguably the biggest era the business has ever seen, and has been one of the main focuses for the better part of the past ten years. That's a lot different than any of those other people because they were never such an intricate part of the industry on-screen.

Also, what about Ventura, being a governor and movie star makes him quite high in the "known by non-fans" category.

[CSL]

Are you retarded? How many knock off Austin shirts have their been promoting none wrestling things? And have you never seens an OBEY poster?

I don't recall ever seeing a knock off Austin shirt except for the Owen one :-\

And I just looked up that OBEY thing. I had no idea that was supposed to be Andre. I've seen a couple of those stencils knocking around these parts. But how many people actually know it's Andre compared to how many have/do them 'cause all the 'cool skater kids' do?

[#1-norm-fan]

Piper was as good, if not better than Flair on the mic back in his prime. Just like Flair now, his promos have become crazy and tend to ramble.

Piper was obviously never as good in the ring as flair but he was better in the ring than everyone else in the top tier, save Austin maybe.

As far as non-wrestling fans knowing their name, Piper holds the edge though. Flair being a household name outside of wrestling is very overrated.

[#1-norm-fan]

Vince McMahon has wrestled more than a handful matches, has held two world titles and was the focus, along with Austin, of arguably the biggest era the business has ever seen, and has been one of the main focuses for the better part of the past ten years. That's a lot different than any of those other people because they were never such an intricate part of the industry on-screen.

Also, what about Ventura, being a governor and movie star makes him quite high in the "known by non-fans" category.

Ugh, I didn't even think to bring up any of those points.

[Stickman]

I do think Flair is overrated by those people who claim he's big outside of the business. The average person on the street would not know who FLair is. They probably wouldn't know who Piper is.

Bret Hart made a good point about Flair. Flair didn't wrestle infront of packed houses.

[#1-norm-fan]

I've heard plenty more Piper references in pop culture than Flair references.

[#1-norm-fan]

Also, Piper starred in a classic movie. (They Live)

[Sephiroth]

Piper is good and Sting should be up there with Lesnar and Goldberg, i mean come on, that i'm a man of religion is cool :$

[Mooияakeя™]

Went to read up on Race for a bit on wiki to see what they said bout him. WWE or Wiki has something wrong. In WWE's bio they say 7-time NWA WC. Wiki says 8.