I am really tired of these selfless workers

[BigDaddyCool]

You know, the guys like Tommy Dreamer who never wanted to be champion, but instead help build the business. There have been plenty of others, Dean Malinko, Saturn, and Benoit all come to mind and I am certain there are more. But that is really dumb, going out and having the most techincally perfect match of the night does not build the business. Going out and working your ass off to be another midcard helps nothing. The average fan isn't coming to a show just to midcarders, they are coming for the mainevent. Maybe it is just me, but I don't understand the mentality of wanting to be medicore at a job you are passionate for. It just pisses me off.

Then they say if you still want a title, then you are a mark. I'm sorry but the most basic story in wrestling is a title quest. So if you don't want your character to be a champion, why the fuck even step into the ring? Then these guy bitch about how they can't get ahead and no talent hacks hold them back. Well if you never wanted to be champion, why do you think you can't get ahead?

[IC Champion]

Agreed.

[JT]

Same...I remember Tommy winning the ECW Championship, then going on a rant on the DVD about how pissed he was that he won it. The man only held the belt for a half an hour and was pissed for being a World Champion. He's one of my favorites, but I think that's the one thing that pisses me off about him...e never tries to get ahead when if he placed the effort, he could have.

[Loose Cannon]

what do you mean Benoit, Saturn, Dean Malenko didn't want to be champions though? Or are you just talking about Dreamer?

And I disagree that the average fan only comes to shows for the main events. Guys like Benoit/Jericho/Angle/Guerrero sold shows back when they were all mid card.

[BigDaddyCool]

Plus another thing is people wanted to see him as a champion. He had gotten ahead for whatever reason. People thought he earned it and wanted him as champion. At that point, it was out of his hands and it wasn't about what he wanted, but rather what the fans wanted. In fact it should always be about what the fans want.

[BigDaddyCool]

what do you mean Benoit, Saturn, Dean Malenko didn't want to be champions though? Or are you just talking about Dreamer?

And I disagree that the average fan only comes to shows for the main events. Guys like Benoit/Jericho/Angle/Guerrero sold shows back when they were all mid card.

I have read plenty of non-kayfabe interviews where they say they don't care if they are champions and that isn't what they are after. Also, Lance Storm has said stuff to that effect as well.

I'm not saying the midcard is unimportant to the average fan, it just isn't what is packing them in.

[Loose Cannon]

ok, I'll give you this. I agree that it's definately the main event that pushes the fans to buy tickets. That's always your main seller. But having a good mid card and other matches on the card helps a lot in making a decision on buying a ticket.

[BigDaddyCool]

ok, I'll give you this. I agree that it's definately the main event that pushes the fans to buy tickets. That's always your main seller. But having a good mid card and other matches on the card helps a lot in making a decision on buying a ticket.


That goes without saying. But I don't understand the kind of mentality that says, "I've made it to the midcard, I don't care if I ever break out of it and become known as one of the best." That isn't the same as, "I got a taste of the top and it takes too much work and politicing to say their, I'm kinda fed up with it, so I'll start a rock band instead."

[Loose Cannon]

people just have different mentalities. lots of guys don't want the spotlight or the pressure put on them. I can understand that. they don't want to play the political game or deal with all the bullshit that comes with it.

[The One]

I know Eddie said after his WWE Title reign that he never wanted to be Champ again because he simply couldn't handle all that was involved with being the top guy.

But yeah, I tend to agree. I can't remember in what interview Austin said it, but he said unless you're in the business to be the best, to make it to the top, then you have no business being there.

[BigDaddyCool]

I know Eddie said after his WWE Title reign that he never wanted to be Champ again because he simply couldn't handle all that was involved with being the top guy.

But yeah, I tend to agree. I can't remember in what interview Austin said it, but he said unless you're in the business to be the best, to make it to the top, then you have no business being there.

No I understand Eddie's point of view, he made it to the top and it was too much for him, and lets face it he was weak*, we already knew that. I understand getting there and not knowing it was going to be like that and wanting to go back to the midcard, I just don't understand what the point is if you don't want to make it.

I mean if you don't want to go to Branson, why get in the car and drive half way there?

<font size=1>*I mean weak with controling his demons</font>

[Stickman]

But you need somebody to put over the younger talent. HTat's what those guys did. They put on matches with terrible young guys that have the charisma. Some guys dont' feel comfortable infront of a mic, so to be a top guy you have to be willing to be the face of the company. If you dont' want that, be the best talent to put over somebody willing to lead the company.

[BigDaddyCool]

But you need somebody to put over the younger talent. HTat's what those guys did. They put on matches with terrible young guys that have the charisma. Some guys dont' feel comfortable infront of a mic, so to be a top guy you have to be willing to be the face of the company. If you dont' want that, be the best talent to put over somebody willing to lead the company.

But that isn't the American way, goddamnit.

[Loose Cannon]

I hear what you guys are saying, but look at it like this: If guys are comfortable enough with what they are making and doing without being a champion, then I say more power to them. I think deep down inside every athlete wants to be the best, but sometimes being happy is more important. And being World Champion probably won't make some guys very happy.

[BigDaddyCool]

I hear what you guys are saying, but look at it like this: If guys are comfortable enough with that they are making without being a champion, then I say more power to them. I think deep down inside every athlete wants to be the best, but sometimes being happy is more important. And being World Champion probably won't make some guys very happy.

No, you look at it from my point of view and only my point of view because I am right. :mad:

[Pepsi Man]

The way I see it, everyone should want to win a World Title at least once. Once you've held it, especially if you have a decent reign with it, I can see not really caring if you get it again, but still wanting to be a part of the business. I'd probably really want it deep down at least once, but I probably wouldn't really seem like it, and I probably could handle never getting it...but that's "could handle" and not "would like" or "wouldn't at all mind".

[BigDaddyCool]

The way I see it, everyone should want to win a World Title at least once. Once you've held it, especially if you have a decent reign with it, I can see not really caring if you get it again, but still wanting to be a part of the business. I'd probably really want it deep down at least once, but I probably wouldn't really seem like it, and I probably could handle never getting it...but that's "could handle" and not "would like" or "wouldn't at all mind".

Yeah, that is my point, thank you pepsi man.

[Pardeep 619]

I know Eddie said after his WWE Title reign that he never wanted to be Champ again because he simply couldn't handle all that was involved with being the top guy.

But yeah, I tend to agree. I can't remember in what interview Austin said it, but he said unless you're in the business to be the best, to make it to the top, then you have no business being there.

Apparently Eddie couldn't handle with the pressure first time around as he blamed himself for low attendances etc, but he definately wanted another crack at being champion (according to his book, and Stephanie McMahon said the same thing)

[BigDaddyCool]

Another thing, when guys have that kind of attitude, it just makes it easier for the Hogans and Kliqs of the world to hold them down.

[hitman23]

I dont understand why guys would bust their ass to stay at midcard, but without these type wrestlers there is no one to make guys like John Cena look good. In Dreamers case i think he just wants to always have a job in some capacity with wrestling.