The Great Debate - John Cena v. IWC

[BigDaddyCool]

Is John Cena as bad as the internet makes him out to be, and who is really at fault if he is. Personally, I see he has bettered himself through his title riegn and he is fairly entertaining. I think he is a better choice as a champion than most other active workers in the mainevent scene. While there is the chant wars during his matches, something I think it hilarious. I'm not sure where I'm going with this thought, I just don't think he is all that bad, and at times he is actaully entertaining. And I do think he needs to become a heel to freshen everything up.

Discuss.

[FourFifty]

I'm a Jew.
I was willing to part with money if Cena dropped the title.
This means there is a HUGE problem here!!!!

But no, we can't blame it on Cena. If Cena was a heel champ for a year, cheating to keep the title for a year by screwing over other people, then I'd be happy. I blame the bookers for giving Cena this superman complex. Every PPV it's "Will Cena Overcome The Odds?" I'm sick of seeing that.
He has beaten some of the best in the industry for the past few years, and he was money at one point in time, but this past year has been painful to watch.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Nothing is as bad as the internet makes it out to be.

[FourFifty]

Nothing is as bad as the internet makes it out to be.

Even cancer?

[Anybody Thrilla]

ESPECIALLY cancer.

[Anybody Thrilla]

But especially ESPECIALLY John Cena.

[BigDaddyCool]

Another point to the debate, if Cena turned heel tonight, would you mind if he had another 6 months to his title riegn?

[IC Champion]

Another point to the debate, if Cena turned heel tonight, would you mind if he had another 6 months to his title riegn?
Yes, yes I would.

[Mooияakeя™]

Yes, yes I would.

2nded.

[Xero]

Yes, yes I would.
Thirded.

[SammyG]

John Cena is a great champ. Alright, go on, neg rep again KK. Fat fuck.

[Jordan]

I really think he is one of the top five or six workers they have right now. I would say the best are, Matt Hardy, Kennedy, CM Punk, Undertaker, and Edge. He still works a little soft sometimes but for the most part puts out good to really good matches.

He is getting stale though, his mic work epecially for me. I don't think its time for his heel turn just yet, I think they could do it and make it work but I think they should wait til the end of the year around Survivor Series.

[BigDaddyCool]

I really think he is one of the top five or six workers they have right now. I would say the best are, Matt Hardy, Kennedy, CM Punk, Undertaker, and Edge. He still works a little soft sometimes but for the most part puts out good to really good matches.

He is getting stale though, his mic work epecially for me. I don't think its time for his heel turn just yet, I think they could do it and make it work but I think they should wait til the end of the year around Survivor Series.

Undertaker is a better worker than Cena? Undertaker? Really, Undertaker? For serious? Also, where the hell is HBK and MVP on this list? Are you saying Undertaker's no selling, same match have, injury riddled ass is better than both MVP and Shawn Micheals? Undertaker has sucked for the past 2 years. Also, Kennedy? The guy has yet to do anything to impress me. He is decent, but I right now I wouldn't put best worker and kennedy in the same sentence. Punk, Hardy, and Edge...maybe. But seriously, Undertaker? Cena is a better work than Undertaker. Hornswoggle is a better worker than Taker. Taker has his enterances and then the matches are boring and predictable. I used to be a huge 'Taker mark, but he really hasn't do anything impressive in years.

[Kane Knight]

Undertaker is a better worker than Cena? Undertaker? Really, Undertaker? For serious? Also, where the hell is HBK and MVP on this list? Are you saying Undertaker's no selling, same match have, injury riddled ass is better than both MVP and Shawn Micheals? Undertaker has sucked for the past 2 years. Also, Kennedy? The guy has yet to do anything to impress me. He is decent, but I right now I wouldn't put best worker and kennedy in the same sentence. Punk, Hardy, and Edge...maybe. But seriously, Undertaker? Cena is a better work than Undertaker. Hornswoggle is a better worker than Taker. Taker has his enterances and then the matches are boring and predictable. I used to be a huge 'Taker mark, but he really hasn't do anything impressive in years.

I think you meant "Cena is a bigger wanker than the Undertaker."

I agree, by the way. Taker marks seem to be incredibly shallow. Odds are, then own 20 iPods, each newer and shinier than the last.

[BigDaddyCool]

I think you meant "Cena is a bigger wanker than the Undertaker."

I agree, by the way. Taker marks seem to be incredibly shallow. Odds are, then own 20 iPods, each newer and shinier than the last.

Also each iPod is completely filled with music, but only .01% they actually listen to, they just down load and burn music for the sake of doing it. That and the songs they downloaded were hot for that one second, but now they can't remember even downloading it.

[Lord-Of-Darkness]

Those things are only half true :shifty:

[FourFifty]

Yes, yes I would.

Not just Fourth'ed, but FourFifty-ed!

[Mr. Nerfect]

John Cena himself is not completely incompetent, and is actually quite a good wrestler. That he was actually better when he debuted in 2002 goes a long way to highlighting how shit he has become, though. I am very rarely entertained by a John Cena match. I didn't mind his battle with John Morrison on ECW the week Chris Benoit died, but that's about all I can remember. The guy is also a horrible actor, and nowhere near ready to be the top guy in the company.

[br0ken]

IWC? whats that?

[Kane Knight]

John Cena himself is not completely incompetent, and is actually quite a good wrestler. That he was actually better when he debuted in 2002 goes a long way to highlighting how shit he has become, though. I am very rarely entertained by a John Cena match. I didn't mind his battle with John Morrison on ECW the week Chris Benoit died, but that's about all I can remember. The guy is also a horrible actor, and nowhere near ready to be the top guy in the company.

He was better as the Prototype, and he was better as the rapping wigger. I don't know why they finally had a working formula, and decided it had to go.

Cena, however, is largely to blame. HE could take the intitiative at any time, and he hasn't. Surely, nobody wants to go down as the champ who tanked ratings. Because in five years, nobody's going to bother with whol sold the most merch. People are going to remember the boos. The dead crowds. The low ratings.

[BigDaddyCool]

IWC? whats that?

IWC or Internet wrestling community. It is a term used to define internet smarts or smarks. It is more acurate of a term than smarts, because we are all fucking retarded. And smark just sounds dumb. Being part of the IWC doesn't mean you agree with them either. I, for the large part, disagree with most of what they say. Also, it gets dangerous to refer to them as a single minded group. By saying the IWC hates John Cena is true to the same exect that America voted for George W Bush as president. On the collective level, it is true, on the person to person level it varies.

[Mr. Monday Morning]

Cena got a passable match out of Khali. There's not really any more proof needed that he can work.

[BigDaddyCool]

Cena got a passable match out of Khali. There's not really any more proof needed that he can work.

I argue that Kahli got a passable match of Cena. There's not really any more proof needed that Kahli can work.

[Kane Knight]

Cena and Collie both looked awful. "Passable" only applies because the bar was so low already.

[IC Champion]

Well, how high could the bar be set for a Khali/Cena match?

[Xero]

_______________ < Kurt Angle match

















































_____________ < John Cena match
























































________ Khali Match























































































































__________ < Khali/Cena match





_________ < Batista match

[Theo Dious]

The problem with Cena isn't Cena. He does what he does and it got him to the top and keeps him there, so there's no reason to hate on him for it. Cena himself is a decent champion and does his job properly.

That being said, Cena has never been terribly entertaining to me. He's held my interest for short stretches, but I've never had the feeling of "oooh, gotta watch Raw tonight, Cena's gonna (do whatever.) His feuds and reigns are badly booked, but that isn't really his fault. This is a WWE problem for not realizing that they're going to burn him out WAY too fast. Anybody else think that if WWE hadn't been "all Austin all the time" for so long, he might still be able to pull it out every once and a while? Just a thought.

[St. Jimmy]

Cena is no where near as bas as the IWC says he is. He's actually marginally worse.

[The One]

Cena isn't the worst wrestler. He's got a move set that is small, but a lot of the big names keep to a dozen or less moves. He's not terrible on the mic. The problem isn't Cena. The problem is WWE. Cena alone actually got quite a fanbase back when he was the US Champ, not me personally, but a lot of people liked him. He's charismatic, and he's a fantastic frontman for the company. The problem is WWE hasn't come up with anything for him to do. He's been booked to look like the underdog for 3 years now, and on almost every single occasion has overcome the odds. It's a good storyarch...the first time. The 36th time in a row is annoying. Plus his character is unfitting. He's supposed to be a rebel type, street wise, down to earth, awesome dude who sometimes raps and sometimes makes movies? Austin was relateable because he drank beer and flip off the bird to his boss...fans took to it. The Rock was over because he was kind of the guy we all wanted to be like, so cool that you knew you where cool and even that made you cooler. Hogan got over because he was the child hero who was shooting for children. Cena is made to look like he's just like us like Austin was, but so cool like Rock, and despite his character attempting to be an appeal to teens and twenty-somethings, his message is straight up child hero. It's conflicting with itself.

Cena's problem is not Cena. Cena's problem is WWE. But Cena isn't going to say a word about it to the guys at WWE cause he's making millions doing what he's doing right now and any deviation for this course, while good for business, would be initially bad for Cena's career. So why not sit down and shut up and wait for the checks to role in.

[Kane Knight]

The problem with Cena isn't Cena. He does what he does and it got him to the top and keeps him there, so there's no reason to hate on him for it. Cena himself is a decent champion and does his job properly.

That being said, Cena has never been terribly entertaining to me. He's held my interest for short stretches, but I've never had the feeling of "oooh, gotta watch Raw tonight, Cena's gonna (do whatever.) His feuds and reigns are badly booked, but that isn't really his fault. This is a WWE problem for not realizing that they're going to burn him out WAY too fast. Anybody else think that if WWE hadn't been "all Austin all the time" for so long, he might still be able to pull it out every once and a while? Just a thought.

I see you've been taking notes from the ToVo book of "Out of touch with reality bullshit."

[The One]

I've trained him so well. :D

And for the record, I never said he was good. I never said he was anywhere deserving to be in the Main Event. I'm saying he isn't anywhere as bad as a Khali or Mizark Henry like some people make him out to be. And my post might have let some up to the individual reader; for the record, John Cena is nowhere near Austin or Rock's level of talent in any realm I can think of...match wise he kicks Hogan's ass, but that's about it.

[FourFifty]

match wise he kicks Hogan's ass, but that's about it.

Ya know ToVo, that's not much of a statement. El Generico can out wrestle Hogan.

[The One]

No shit, the kidney stones I had to piss out last year could have a better match than Hogan.

[FourFifty]

I bet your kidney stones would also be a bigger draw for the IWC.

[Kane Knight]

I bet your kidney stones would also be a bigger draw for the IWC. "Block that Kidney!" *clap clap clapclapclap*

[Avenger]

Cena's okay. Yep. I like him.

[Slow]

If Cena was so great, he'd turn round and say "you know what, i've been champion for ages. I think it's time for me to let someone else have a go. How about HBK?"

But will he say that? will he heck

[Anybody Thrilla]

Nobody asks for a demotion, you fool.

[Slow]

You would if you had any compassion for your fellow wrestlers trying make something of themselves. Someone like Carlito could've been given the title, see where it took him. 3 years have been used on one man when plenty of others could've shown their worth if they kept to the 'title changes hands after 7 months' policy

[Theo Dious]

No shit, the kidney stones I had to piss out last year could have a better match than Hogan.

Bastard, they had to shove a laser up my pee-hole to get mine. :mad:

Nobody asks for a demotion, you fool.

This is the truest thing that anyone has said in this thread.

[My Final Heaven]

Nobody asks for a demotion, you fool.

DUN DUN DUN DUUUUN DUNDUNDUN
HERE COMES THE AXE!
HERE COMES THE SMASHER!
PURE DEMOLI.... oh yeah, demotion. sorry.:o

[DAMN iNATOR]

Well, how high could the bar be set for a Khali/Cena match?

...Or a Khali/anybody match for that matter?, But then, they fucking advertise a Falls Count Anywhere match, take it maybe 6½ minutes TOPS (a full 90 seconds past "squash match level" at O.N.S. ’07, and BAM!, just like that Cena’s escaped yet another bullet at a Pay-Per-View with his lucky belt. But Cena winning certainly didn’t help matters any, because, in my estimation, if there was anybody that carried that match, it was Khali, and NOT Cena.

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[Adder]

You would if you had any compassion for your fellow wrestlers trying make something of themselves. Someone like Carlito could've been given the title, see where it took him. 3 years have been used on one man when plenty of others could've shown their worth if they kept to the 'title changes hands after 7 months' policy

That's pure crazy talk my friend.

Cena is ok but he's never, nor will anybody, ask to be depushed.

What's being said in this thread about the lack of vision WWE has for his character development is right on the money.

[br0ken]

I feel good to now that other poeple like Cena to. Sure everybody will have there own favorites but the way some people were talking b4 I thought maybe I was only person to like Cena.

[Kane Knight]

I feel good to now that other poeple like Cena to. Sure everybody will have there own favorites but the way some people were talking b4 I thought maybe I was only person to like Cena.

No, you're just one of the 70% of people in this world incapable of understanding that criticism does not immediately mean hatred. The rest of us, who I call the "thinking crowd," Fully understand that you can actually hold two completely differet thoughts and do not need to hold unilateral beliefs.

You'll meet a lot of them on here. Their arguments and personal favorites will be different, but they'll all come down to "I'm too stupid to understand what you're saying because you have complicated thought process that include both pros and cons that can be expressed differently."

[br0ken]

Than maybe explain why I get bad reps from people about me liking Cena? If what you say was true that would not happen. I say before that I believe in having our own opinion and that others can have a different one but still agrree on things like you say too. But I get bad reps for 3 main reasons. 1) Cena 2)bad spelling 3) that stupid topic about bad reps.

I will make a change about the splelling, I already tell everyone I will.
I make apology about the other thread

***but the last one I keep holding on to bad reps or not**

Too many times you make bad examples of peoples thoughts, maybe you need to give people more of a chance, just like you say dumb people should.

OK.

So Cena is not going to be people's favorites but I see better talk of him now and I feel good about it and even think **maybe** i have a help in changing all the hate talk by not stop defending my opinion.