I really wish Vince and company listened to the fans:

[Kane Knight]

First off, let me clarify that this is not an "Internet smarks could fix wrestling overnight" sort of deal. I don't think there's any one quick fix, but there's a very important lesson I wish Vince would learn.

People know what they don't like.

Seems fairly obvious. Actually, completely obvious, but here's the thing: Nobody here (Or anywhere else in wrestling fandom) can actually save wrestling. That much is obvious. But just because you don't know which stock to invest in doesn't mean you don't know better than to put your money into magic beans.

Other companies work with focus groups. If it's TV or another ratings-oriented media, they look at what causes ratings to change. Literally, they look for what sells and what does not. They probably care for their fanbase about as much as Vince cares about the internet, but they at least know who butters their bread. And if Vince was still dooing 5.Xs, he could tell the fans to go fuck themselves like normal. Thing is, he ain't, and he can't. Ratings have gone lower than I thought they could, and it may not stop there.

WWE doesn't seem to have much interest in knowing their fans or what makes them tune in or tune out. Seems like a lost opportunity, because it seems the only real way taht they're going to get feedback. As amused as I was by Coach trying to "Blow up" The 'Swog, I can't imagine in any way that that would appeal to most wrestling fans, or the casuals who will bump the ratings. And I know it was just one comedy segment, but there seem to be a lot lately.

And the crowds seem to be tired of the show in general. That would be a sign to start in with new ideas, or a different track at least. I mean, changing the show drastically every week would likely be as bad as "Staying the Course," but right now, they need something different, and really, it's just such a shame that they aren't listening.


Or maybe they're buying into their own piped in reactions.

...That thought amuses me horribly for some reason.

[The One]

That would be a good idea...except if you took every person who watches WWE and put them in a room, you couldn't fill a 20 person focus group. :shifty:

[BigDaddyCool]

I'm going to assume your post says put the title on Val Venis and turn him heel.

[Dorkchop]

I've always wondered why WWE doesn't push the guys that the fans are going nuts for.

Remember how hot RVD was when he was first in the WWF? he eventually got his shot, but it was like what, 5 years later?

Christian was probably getting the loudest pops (or at least some of the loudest) in the WWE for a while, but WWE kept him as a mid carder even though he was main event material.

Cena was getting the loudest and most consistent boos in years, but WWE kept shoving him down our throat. Angle was chasing the title against Cena, and was getting cheered no matter what he said or did (he even pointed that out at a PPV I think).

WWE force guys down our throats that are getting no crowd reaction what so ever, but WWE keeps pushing them, and shoving them down our throat.

Cody Rhodes fought Trevor Murdock last night. The only time I remember the crowd making any noise was when Murdock did stuff. Of course Murdock lost the match cleanly.

[Dorkchop]

Also Chuck Palumbo and probably all of Smackdown are getting no reaction what so ever from the crowd, but WWE doesn't seem to think they need to change anything.

[Dorkchop]

Also, aren't WWE getting the worst ratings they've had in 10 years? You know, if they listened to the fans (not completely, but at least somewhat) ratings would be higher.

[What Would Kevin Do?]

I'm going to assume your post says put the title on Val Venis and turn him heel.

I thought this was an Alienoid thread... I'm confused...

Nah, I totally agree though. What's worse, is that some of the things they do are spot on, but they don't know how to do it right. Everyone was happy when DX came back.... But then they buried everyone, and it got stale. Same thing with Cena... Everyone was happy, but they took it too far. When they started to turn Umaga face, it would have worked, people were into it.... then they didn't.

It seems like they'll hit something good, and then they'll take it too far, or not run with it. They can't find a happy medium.

[Kane Knight]

That would be a good idea...except if you took every person who watches WWE and put them in a room, you couldn't fill a 20 person focus group. :shifty:

Too Shay.

[Kane Knight]

I've always wondered why WWE doesn't push the guys that the fans are going nuts for.

Remember how hot RVD was when he was first in the WWF? he eventually got his shot, but it was like what, 5 years later?

Christian was probably getting the loudest pops (or at least some of the loudest) in the WWE for a while, but WWE kept him as a mid carder even though he was main event material.

Cena was getting the loudest and most consistent boos in years, but WWE kept shoving him down our throat. Angle was chasing the title against Cena, and was getting cheered no matter what he said or did (he even pointed that out at a PPV I think).

WWE force guys down our throats that are getting no crowd reaction what so ever, but WWE keeps pushing them, and shoving them down our throat.

Cody Rhodes fought Trevor Murdock last night. The only time I remember the crowd making any noise was when Murdock did stuff. Of course Murdock lost the match cleanly.

And that's why the ratings are so low. The Attitude Era had marketable superstars that everyone WANTED to see, and couldn't get enough of. I mean, if we're willing to put up with hearing "STOINE COLD STONE COLD BAH GAWD I THINK I NEED A NEW PAIR OF SHORTS!" Every night, the guy must be damned good.

I mean, it's not like they never listen to responses. Cena got over because of the fans, but then they turned him face and kept him face when the ratings dropped and his reactions turned to boos or (occasionally) no response. And then there's Hardy (Who could have easily been a monster face), Shelton (Who is now losing clean to jobbers from Velocity, if I understood the posts in the Raw thread), and I'm sure we could name a few others. They'll do anything to avoid responding to heat, and they'll bury people who are getting genuinely good (Or bad, in the case of heels) Reactions.

All this is fucking stupid business.

[Mercury Bullet]

I think alot of it lies on their determination to be "right". Goddamnit, they know what they are talking about when they push Snitsky! They know what we will want to see!

I think Vince's "character" is more than just that, it is his genuine opinion that he knows what we want to see better than we do.

[Kane Knight]

Yeah, but at least the Vince character claims to be doing it FOR the fans, which I think would be more positive than Vince's attitude.

[Johnny Vegas]

Last night was the first night ever that i turned off a RAW main event, purposely. I did not want to see DX for one more night because how many more of these "one more time for the 'fans'" shit are they going to pull?

God, HHH/Vince/whoever the fuck else is going to run the company to the ground and will probably blame Jericho's return. Get the fuck out of here.

Vince, the XFL went down under. WCW went down under. Don't think you are invincible, seriously. You'd figure that '97 would have given him the mindset that anything can happen.

[Kane Knight]

Last night was the first night ever that i turned off a RAW main event, purposely. I did not want to see DX for one more night because how many more of these "one more time for the 'fans'" shit are they going to pull?

42.

Vince, the XFL went down under. WCW went down under. Don't think you are invincible, seriously. You'd figure that '97 would have given him the mindset that anything can happen.

The problem is, ECW tanking and WCW being bought out seems more to have given him the idea that he's untouchable. He killed the competition--drove 'em out of business.

Kinda odd when you think of his other business ventures. WWE films is now going straight to video, XFL (As you mentioned) fell flat, and really, what happened to that multimedia empire?

And yeah, these "One more time" deals are really fucking boring. Especially since it's hard to believe it's gonna be one more time.

[JT]

I think I've brought up this argument before, though I guess I didn't have KK's grammar skills to carry it.

I agree with the research thing. In the Monday Night War DVD, Bischoff mentions Turners R&D department and used it to get a better understanding of fans, which probably helped kick off WCW in the ratings wars (depending if Eric was telling the truth). However, WWF has always come off to me as Vince's clubhouse. When he needs to appease the fans he will try, but for the most part he wants to do things that he personally finds entertaining imo.

-Wanted his own vision of ECW, and when it failed he left it like a broken toy.
-Constantly promotes really big guys with reletively no appeal to fans (Kalhi, Big daddy V, Mark Henry).
-And, hell you guys already mentioned a few...

Point is I agree, but I don't see a R&D Department starting in the company till Vince is out of the company's picture.

[Kane Knight]

I think I've brought up this argument before, though I guess I didn't have KK's grammar skills to carry it.

No, it's more that you're not as Kliq tolerated.

[Corkscrewed]

It all comes down to the fact that Vince is a stubborn, egoistical guy who's had a few hits over a couple of decades of misses and keeps believing he'll come up with something that will save everything again.

Kind of an American quality, really: the quick fix can save everything. ...:222. :shifty:

[Johnny Vegas]

[It all comes down to the fact that Vince is a stubborn,
egoistical guy who's had a few hits over a couple of decades of misses and keeps
believing he'll come up with something that will save everything again.

Kind of an American quality, really: the quick fix can save everything. ...:222. :shifty:


or the other american mindset, "wait until something big, negative of course, happens instead of planning in advance

[Kane Knight]

[

or the other american mindset, "wait until something big, negative of course, happens instead of planning in advance

Nah. If that was the case, he'd be doing something now. The ratings have slipped too far down multiple times for him to ignore it.

However, it does reek of a similar mindset, "It's not my fault."

Vinnie seems to always blame other people. Don't get me wrong, he's sometimes justified. It's just that if you ALWAYS cry wolf, nobody believes you when the Big Bad Wolf does come huffing and puffing. Fuck me, I've resorted to fairy tale metaphors.

It's the writers. It's the smarks. It's the fans. The wrestlers aren't stepping up. Injuries are happening. It's always something, and it's rarely anything more than an excuse. It's a way of saying "IT WASN'T...MY...FAULT..."