Carlito

[GD]

With Carlito staying in the wwe now, do you see him winning any title and taking part in a storyline or just do the job until his contract expires? IMO he is a talent with great potential getting destroyed by the corporate structure of the wwe.

[Kane Knight]

I see him being the next Scotty 2 Hotty.

[Xero]

I seem to be skipping more and more Carlito segments/matches. He may have a run with a midcard title but that's it.

Honestly, more guys like Carlito should be put as managers. Like they've done with Striker. There are so many guys who are ok in the ring but would work well to be the mouth piece for someone else. In fact, get enough and you could have a managerial war of sorts. A new stable wars with a slight twist.

[Fox]

Carlito has never done anything to impress me. I would agree with KK's theory on him becoming the new Scotty 2 Hotty, but even Too Cool and Rikishi's dance was entertaining for a couple weeks.

[GD]

Merry Xmas everyone. I remember a thread this year where a lot of our tpww members predicted Carlito to win the Rumble. I would have loved to see Carlito vs Flair on the WM card this year rather watch Kane job to Khali. What about Dykstra? like he was pinning Flair on a regular basis and got a ECW World title match on RAW. At present I don't see any young superstars in the wwe who can be the future which is upon us. You cannot count MVP and Kennedy as young.

[Theo Dious]

I see him being the next Scotty 2 Hotty.

You see him getting cancer? :shifty:

Seriously... it'll suck for him if he gets left off of Wrestlemania again.

[The MAC]

nah, he will be a midcarder will job to guys on the way up and job to guys on the way down.
The wwe would hve let him go if TNA was smart nough to act like they are not interested in him.

[Hanso Amore]

I see him getting paid alot to do nothing, except speak spanish when they go to a brown country.

[Fox]

Psh. That's what Lillian Garcia's for. And she has tits, so people actually listen to her.

[The MAC]

mmmm...lilian...yumm..drool..

[Kane Knight]

Psh. That's what Lillian Garcia's for. And she has tits, so people actually listen to her.

People don't listen to Lilian. I think the fact that Jillian Hall's record outstripped hers proves that. People just look at her and jerk off.

[Theo Dious]

Psh. That's what Lillian Garcia's for. And she has tits, so people actually keep their eyes on her.

Fixed. Merry Christmas. ;)

[RVDmark]

People don't listen to Lilian. I think the fact that Jillian Hall's record outstripped hers proves that. People just look at her and jerk off.

If Lillian released an album in English, it would outsell Jillian Hall's easily. Lillian can in fact sing very well, but I hold no interest in an album in a language other than mine. Except maybe decent opera, but thats a different ball game altogether.

[Mr. Nerfect]

As much as I'm sure Lilian Garcia is a lovely person, and as hot as she can be sometimes, he is a fucking awful ring announcer. Bring back The Fink, and have Lilian Garcia host some internet show and do some backstage interviewing, and maybe stick her with some guy. She would make a great performer of entrance music, too.

She's just a fucking awful ring announcer.

As for Carlito, the man does has a lot of potential. I was looking forward to him going to TNA. He fits TNA really well, in my opinion. He can work in the X-Division or Heavyweight Division, and fans would buy it. Plus he has a great heel character that works when pushed and not made to look like a goof.

I see an Intercontinental Title reign in the future of either Carlito or Santino Marella. While my heart says Santino is the one who gets the gold, my head says Carlito will end up dethroning Jeff Hardy. Then it might be the World Tag Team Championship for Carlito & Santino.

Give Carlito time. This time next year, people will probably have completely forgotten about these recent developments, and he'll be well on the way to being a full-time main eventer.

[Kane Knight]

If Lillian released an album in English, it would outsell Jillian Hall's easily. Lillian can in fact sing very well, but I hold no interest in an album in a language other than mine. Except maybe decent opera, but thats a different ball game altogether.

I doubt it would matter if it was in English. And I'm not disputing her talent, but I don't think it much matters, either.

[El Fangel]

:lol:

[Theo Dious]

Jillian > Lillian

No, that has nothing to do with singing.

[Theo Dious]

I see him getting paid alot to do nothing, except speak spanish when they go to a brown country.

Carlito: Gracias para la reception, es muy bueno soy aqui!*
South African Fan: We speak English you stupid asshole!
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(*Yeah, my Spanish is very rusty.)

[BigDaddyCool]

Either way, I'm fine. He is ok, but boring. He is just barely stepping up to the plate now after how many years?

[JT]

It look like on the Raw before the Tribute Show that Carlito is about to form a team with Morella. IDK, but I see potential in it and maybe even a Tag Title reign if it's hot enough.

[BigDaddyCool]

Carlito will probaby be in midcard hell forever, not that he deserves better.

[Kane Knight]

It look like on the Raw before the Tribute Show that Carlito is about to form a team with Morella. IDK, but I see potential in it and maybe even a Tag Title reign if it's hot enough.

Meh.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Either way, I'm fine. He is ok, but boring. He is just barely stepping up to the plate now after how many years?

When Carlito debuted, he carried John Cena to a good match. This was after John Cena had stopped being entertaining. Carlito was willing to step up, but then the WWE killed his momentum real good.

I mean, sure, you can argue that new guys don't deserve to argue their place in the company, but the WWE did do something to cause Carlito's mood.

[Fox]

My understanding of the Carlito situation is that he constantly had the attitude that TV time, PPV spots and pushes were simply due to him and that he should be getting them without making the personal effort to improve both his character and his in-ring skills. It started before WrestleMania 23, when he got a bad attitude about having to work an angle with Ric Flair. The angle lost momentum due to his lack of motivation, and subsequently, they both lost their slot on the WrestleMania card.

You get handed shit sometimes in the WWE, but you're supposed to take it and try to make the most out of it. Even Triple H was Hunter Hearst Helmsley, getting tossed around in a pig pen by rednecks, at one point in his career.

[Theo Dious]

You get handed shit sometimes in the WWE, but you're supposed to take it and try to make the most out of it. Even Triple H was Hunter Hearst Helmsley, getting tossed around in a pig pen by rednecks, at one point in his career.

...and lecturing crowds on their manners...

[Theo Dious]

Really though, I don't see how you can expect people to do anything with a bad gimmick. It's damn near impossible. I mean, I remember when they had this bald guy who hung around with Ted DiBiase. I think he was called the Ringmaster or something. It was a really stupid-ass gimmick that impressed nobody, and the poor bastard was never heard from again. What a damn shame.
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.Damn, that was probably the sarcasticest thing I ever said.

[Anybody Thrilla]

He will win the tag titles with Santino Marella, and it will be sweet.

[Kane Knight]

Really though, I don't see how you can expect people to do anything with a bad gimmick. It's damn near impossible. I mean, I remember when they had this bald guy who hung around with Ted DiBiase. I think he was called the Ringmaster or something. It was a really stupid-ass gimmick that impressed nobody, and the poor bastard was never heard from again. What a damn shame.
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.Damn, that was probably the sarcasticest thing I ever said.

A good wrestler will do the best with what they have. So will a great wrestler, but even a brilliant wrestler can only do so much with what he's given.

Basically, when life hands you lemons, you make lemonade. But when life hands you a handful of dogshit, it's much harder to make lemonade.

[Theo Dious]

There could be something said for someone who TRIES to make lemonade when given dogshit... :shifty:

[Kane Knight]

Well, technically, with the right kind of shit, you could facilitate the growing of lemons, but that still requires access to other items you might need. Tools, if you will.

[Theo Dious]

So, when life gives you lemons, make lemonade, and when life gives you shit, fertilize something?

[Fox]

What a philosophical gem. Someone should write a book and include that line in it. Priceless.

[Fox]

Thinking about it, Carlito was given a lot of big opportunities. His confrontation with Steve Austin and Roddy Piper at Mania 21 was kind of the start of it all, but he never took it to that "next level" to make himself a star. As much as I hate the prick, I actually agree with Triple H when he dogged Carlito for not taking advantage of the opportunity to work with a legend like Ric Flair. That's the type of thing that will never come again in your career, so even if you feel that this "legend" is beneath you in terms of current drawing power and card-level, you should still take advantage because it should be a wind-mill type of effect: Flair is on his way down and Carlito is on his way up and they won't see each other again.

Instead, Carlito dragged both of them down and broke the fucking windmill. I really hope he makes good on his new life in the WWE, but if he fails and discredits himself into a lifetime of mediocrity in the vein of one Teddy Hart, then so be it, and I won't miss him one damn.

[addy2hotty]

I'm still a bit unsure about when Trips says about the Carlito & Flair thing. Is he saying that the matches weren't good? I don't really recall a poor match, but booking someone who was pretty over as a heel back then and having him lose clean for the IC title that Flair really really didn't need - well that is just shit booking designed to make him look shit. That after they skyrocketed him to both mid card titles on both shows on his respective debuts.

I can't recall how long ago it was, but certainly not that far back that Carlito was getting big face pops coming out, and a big win over Cena. So, Trips' argument that he didn't make the most of the Flair feud is rendered bullshit by that fact alone.

Like Shelton, I think he's the victim of some pretty shocking booking and yeah, his attitude could have been better - and I haven't seen the Game have a 60 year old make him tap clean anytime recently, and he certainly won't NYE - but in the same position, I would have been just as pissed.

[Mr. Nerfect]

A good wrestler will do the best with what they have. So will a great wrestler, but even a brilliant wrestler can only do so much with what he's given.

Basically, when life hands you lemons, you make lemonade. But when life hands you a handful of dogshit, it's much harder to make lemonade.

Very nice. :y:

And really, fertilizing is about all you can do to make lemonade out of shit. And that takes time, because you have to wait for the fucking lemon tree to grow. Then you can get a better deal with lemons, and then you can finally get lemonade.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Fox, you might be right, but I have a different take on the Carlito situation. It's more of an "Optimists" take:

The earliest thing I ever heard about Carlito's attitude was that he didn't want to be a professional wrestler growing up, but his dad pushed him into the business, and he turned out very talented.

The guy then showed up on SmackDown!, and he did very well. He was really entertaining, and made *ahem* lemonade out of the lemons the WWE gave him. What could have been a shitty gimmick was actually loved by a lot of people, and the WWE obviously had enough faith in the kid's abilities to put him over John Cena, and win the US Title in his WWE debut.

Then Carlito got a break in his arm, or something, and instead of having Carlito remain US Champion by ducking out on Cena, they had Cena get Carlito in a match, and pretty much squash the one-handed Carlito. From there it all went downhill with the guy.

Well, he did move and win the IC Title in his RAW debut from Shelton Benjamin, and he got to be entertaining on RAW for a while. Then the WWE took notice of the pops he was getting, so they did what they do whenever they have a heel getting cheered: ruin his characer and make him a bland babyface. Carlito's face turn was epic boring, and I can't even remember what happened with it. All I know is that people were underwhelmed, and felt the WWE was handling it wrong. They then put the blame on Carlito for implying he was not "acting enough like The Rock."

This is when Carlito began to develop an "attitude." It wasn't Carlito's attitude which invited the poor booking, but the other way around. Carlito never wanted to get into the business, but did it because it was his father's wish, and stuck with it because he was good at it. Then the WWE pushes his dedication to the industry by handling him really poorly? Of course it was enough to demoralize Carlito.

Wasn't Carlito's feud with Ric Flair actually based on his "attitude problems?" And it wasn't just Carlito who spoke out against being left off the WrestleMania card. Flair was voiced his displeasure with their program being forgotten.

[NoRoolz]

Yeah I think both Carlito and the WWE can be blamed for his staleness now.

Carlito obviously has no motivation, he doesn't seem interested and there's no effort any more, IMO Carlito was VERY entertaining a few years ago, and the whole step-up thing - he hasn't really had a chance to as he's been forced to step DOWN.

But also on Carlito, even if you're not doing much you're in midcard feuds etc, you should accept it for a while and yeah, make the best of it. Working in a tag team with Santino or whatever's happening with them isn't too bad, and with the mic-abilities of both of them this feud/team could get them very over. Also if his backstage attitude is as bad as it's said to be then that needs sorting too, he can be forgiven as he's young and many wrestlers go through a similar stage.

But yeah, without good booking and without motivation - Carlito's going nowhere.

[Mr. Nerfect]

This agreement between Carlito and Santino with Maria's ass being the glue that holds them together has potential to be greatness. Hopefully it leads to an IC Title for either Carlito or Santino (random tag teams winning the tag belts straight away has been done too much recently, in my opinion), and then they can build towards a World Tag Team Title reign or two.

[Kane Knight]

Fox, you might be right, but I have a different take on the Carlito situation. It's more of an "Optimists" take:

The earliest thing I ever heard about Carlito's attitude was that he didn't want to be a professional wrestler growing up, but his dad pushed him into the business, and he turned out very talented.

The guy then showed up on SmackDown!, and he did very well. He was really entertaining, and made *ahem* lemonade out of the lemons the WWE gave him. What could have been a shitty gimmick was actually loved by a lot of people, and the WWE obviously had enough faith in the kid's abilities to put him over John Cena, and win the US Title in his WWE debut.

Then Carlito got a break in his arm, or something, and instead of having Carlito remain US Champion by ducking out on Cena, they had Cena get Carlito in a match, and pretty much squash the one-handed Carlito. From there it all went downhill with the guy.

Well, he did move and win the IC Title in his RAW debut from Shelton Benjamin, and he got to be entertaining on RAW for a while. Then the WWE took notice of the pops he was getting, so they did what they do whenever they have a heel getting cheered: ruin his characer and make him a bland babyface. Carlito's face turn was epic boring, and I can't even remember what happened with it. All I know is that people were underwhelmed, and felt the WWE was handling it wrong. They then put the blame on Carlito for implying he was not "acting enough like The Rock."

This is when Carlito began to develop an "attitude." It wasn't Carlito's attitude which invited the poor booking, but the other way around. Carlito never wanted to get into the business, but did it because it was his father's wish, and stuck with it because he was good at it. Then the WWE pushes his dedication to the industry by handling him really poorly? Of course it was enough to demoralize Carlito.

Wasn't Carlito's feud with Ric Flair actually based on his "attitude problems?" And it wasn't just Carlito who spoke out against being left off the WrestleMania card. Flair was voiced his displeasure with their program being forgotten.

The problem being that there were reports of an attitude long before he got to that point, including before he even got into WWE. I mean, optimism is nice, but it should never ignore facts simply for the sake of a better outlook. Not to mention, people have been treated worse and still maintained a professional attitude. While I might empathise with Carlito, he was hardly buried or his career ended.

In any event, this whole "attitude" thing is bullshit anyway. I'm sure it's used as a "good reason" to not push him or whatever, but it's not like they won't push people with a bad attitude. How many times has Orton been pushed?

It's mean something if not for the fact that WWE's enforcement of these things is seemingly arbitrary. There's been heat on a ton of wrestlers for their attitudes and their workrates without any real repercussions (And in the case of people like Orton, repercussions are short lived, even for making the company look bad).

[Mr. Nerfect]

The problem being that there were reports of an attitude long before he got to that point, including before he even got into WWE. I mean, optimism is nice, but it should never ignore facts simply for the sake of a better outlook. Not to mention, people have been treated worse and still maintained a professional attitude. While I might empathise with Carlito, he was hardly buried or his career ended.

In any event, this whole "attitude" thing is bullshit anyway. I'm sure it's used as a "good reason" to not push him or whatever, but it's not like they won't push people with a bad attitude. How many times has Orton been pushed?

It's mean something if not for the fact that WWE's enforcement of these things is seemingly arbitrary. There's been heat on a ton of wrestlers for their attitudes and their workrates without any real repercussions (And in the case of people like Orton, repercussions are short lived, even for making the company look bad).

I honestly was not aware of these behaviour issues. I thought that all reports about Carlito were about him not wanting to be a wrestler. But I do agree he should have remained more professional, but as you said, it's easy to empathise with him. I just don't like seeing the blame placed solely on Carlito, like he's the one responsible for his shit charatcer direction.

[Kane Knight]

I just don't like the idea of this "attitude" thing being a justification while Orton's still got the strap around his waist. :D

I hate to single out Orton, but he's a damn good example of someone known for their attitude and WORSE not really being punished. I mean, he jobbed to the Undertaker, which didn't change much, and soon he was back in a good position. And now, he's champ again. All the while, it sounds like he hasn't really changed as much as WWE's decided either they can't keep punishing him, or they don't want to. Either way, Carlito's had a strong history of fans getting behind him.

Other than the IWC, apparently. Which is right on schedule. Eventually, the internet seems to tire of someone and head on to the new novelty.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Orton not being punished for his shit really irks me, so I agree with you there. And I also agree with you on how quickly the IWC can turn on somebody, with little to no reason.

[Kane Knight]

Honestly, attitude or not, pushing Carlito does have a great benefit. We was over with something as stupid as that apple gimmick, so why not run with him?

Hell, the fans might like it if one of the guys they cheered went somewhere once in a while.