The Pros/Cons of the WWE post WM X-7

[Johnny Vegas]

I think we all can agree to some level that the "Boom Period" for the WWE ended either here or a little after this time in the WWE. What i want to know, from you guys, is from 2001-2008:

What were the pros/cons of each year?

What angle/storyline/push could have you done without/which one should've stayed or gone longer into something better?

What is one wrestler/angle, personally, would you have pushed?

What would've been your WrestleMania matches for those years and why?

Type.

[Jordan]

The main event for WM 18 should have been Rock vs Austin vs Triple H, I know that fo show.

[Xero]

Lesnar should still be the top heel and Cena should be the top face, just about a year ago having Cena be pushed to the position.

[GD]

Lesnar was made look bad 6 months odd prior to his departure from the wwe. I started to watch smackdown with respect to Brock. It would have been great if Goldberg was around. Wished they could have kept along with the solo brand ppvs.

[Mr. Nerfect]

A lot of the pros involved the WWE realising the worth in great wrestlers. Soon after WrestleMania X-7, there was a period where Chris Jericho and Chris Benoit were treated like the top faces of the company. Kurt Angle would also get a good face run later that year.

SmackDown! circa 2002 was absolutely brilliant when it came to utilising the talents of great wrestlers. Eddie Guerrero, Chavo Guerrero, Chris Benoit, Kurt Angle, Edge and Rey Mysterio all got a chance to shine, and guys like Matt Hardy and John Cena really stepped up, and added strong characters to their solid mat skills.

The WrestleMania X-8 main event seems very odd with Jericho main eventing. It was the first WrestleMania after what many consider the greatest WWE PPV of all-time. Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. The Rock vs. Triple H would have made sense as a PPV headline, to be honest. Jericho as a heel character was very poorly handled. Also, Triple H just works more naturally as a heel. His face run wasn't too strong.

[Loose Cannon]

lots of pros and cons until mid 2005, where everything seemed to become a con except Shawn Michaels matches.

[St. Jimmy]

Best moment: Wrestlemania X8. Triple H wins the Undisputed Championship.

[The CyNick]

For the record, Chris Jericho was NOT in the main event of Wrestlemania X8. He did wrestle on the last match of the show. Some people even stuck around to watch it after the main event was done.

2001 was a sad year for pro wrestling. The ill advised Austin turn, the injury to Hunter, the botching of WCW/ECW. All very sad.

I remember becoming such a huge fan of Smackdown during the introduction of the tag titles, when they had those 6 guys battling for the titles. Great stuff there.

2003 was the point IMO where things started heading south in a hurry. Bad main events, too much Hunter, too much Hunter having bad-average matches.

I did really enjoy the Batista-HHH storyline. That was one of the best things Ive seen WWE do, really ever. Very simple booking, with logic, a predicatble outcome, and as established star trying to make a new star. Really great stuff.

Havent watched enough over the past couple years to say much about recent stuff.

[Loose Cannon]

Havent watched enough over the past couple years to say much about recent stuff.

you haven't missed much

[Mr. Nerfect]

For the record, Chris Jericho was NOT in the main event of Wrestlemania X8. He did wrestle on the last match of the show. Some people even stuck around to watch it after the main event was done.

2001 was a sad year for pro wrestling. The ill advised Austin turn, the injury to Hunter, the botching of WCW/ECW. All very sad.

I remember becoming such a huge fan of Smackdown during the introduction of the tag titles, when they had those 6 guys battling for the titles. Great stuff there.

2003 was the point IMO where things started heading south in a hurry. Bad main events, too much Hunter, too much Hunter having bad-average matches.

I did really enjoy the Batista-HHH storyline. That was one of the best things Ive seen WWE do, really ever. Very simple booking, with logic, a predicatble outcome, and as established star trying to make a new star. Really great stuff.

Havent watched enough over the past couple years to say much about recent stuff.

How I have missed you. A wrestling forum without you or Heyman is not a wrestling forum.

I agree with pretty much everything you said about the WWE post-WrestleMania X8.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Anyway, here is the card I would have liked to have seen for WrestleMania X8:

* Chris Jericho vs. Rob Van Dam for the WWE Undisputed Championship
* Stone Cold Steve Austin, The Rock and Triple H (w/Ric Flair) vs. Hulk Hogan, Kevin Nash and Scott Hall (w/Vince McMahon)
* Booker T vs. Ric Flair
* The Hardy Boyz vs. The Undertaker & Kane for the World Tag Team Championship in a Ladder Match
* Kurt Angle vs. Edge
* Jazz vs. Trish Stratus vs. Lita in a Triple Threat Elimination Match for the WWE Women's Championship
* William Regal vs. Diamond Dallas Page for the WWE Intercontinental Championship
* Christian vs. Lance Storm for the WWE European Championship
* Billy & Chuck vs. The Dudley Boyz in a Tables Match
* Mr. Perfect vs. Val Venis
* Maven vs. Test vs. Goldust vs. The Hurricane vs. Rikishi vs. The Godfather vs. Spike Dudley vs. Bradshaw vs. Faarooq vs. Steven Richards vs. pretty much whoever else was under contract at that time in a "Hardcore Battle Royal"

Anyway, a bit of synopsis for each match:

The Hardcore Battle Royal takes the Hardcore Title shenanigans that took place throughout the show, and fits them into one match. During the match, I'd have had Goldust win the belt, and then lose it to Rikishi. The 'Kish holds the belt for a while, taking a lot of punishment, but not losing until Bradshaw levels him with a Clothesline from Hell, and The Hurricane steals the pin. The hometown boy, Test, then pins The Hurricane, and gets to be Hardcore Champion for a while, until either The Hurricane wins the belt back, or until Maven wins the belt back. Either way, Test becomes the guy hunting the Hardcore Title coming out of this.

Mr. Perfect vs. Val Venis was actually a bit of a feud that ran on Heat, I believe, but I cannot be sure. Venis and Perfect had just returned in the Royal Rumble Match, and a rivalry between them would have been very easy to create. Have Venis slowly move out of the porn star stuff, and embrace Toronto as his hometown. He challenges Mr. Perfect to a match at WrestleMania there, where he claims he will finally step up. Basically a face version of his 2000 run with Trish Stratus. Perfect wins the match at WrestleMania, but shakes Venis' hand afterwards.

The Dudley Boyz seem like homophobic characters, so a grudge feud with Billy & Chuck would not have been too hard to set-up. Billy & Chuck can also claim about being an elite tag team, and how they want to beat the legendary Dudley Boyz in their own match at WrestleMania. The only problem is I think The Dudleyz were heels at this time. Or were they? I cannot remember. Ah well, turn them face for this match, and have B&C pick up the victory.

Christian vs. Lance Storm for the European Championship would have been a fun little match to have in Toronto. I'd have kept Christian and DDP together, because a legitimate "change of heart" face turn for Christian would have been interesting. DDP could have even given the belt to Christian after he won it as a gift to show he's looking out for Christian's best interests. Christian retains here in his hometown.

Diamond Dallas Page was above the European Championship. He was also above the Intercontinental Championship, really, but this still would have been a good match. William Regal could have cheated his ass off here, used the brass knuckles, etc., but Christian could have come to DDP's aid, and once being a renown bad guy, Christian uses his knowledge of heel tactics to cancel out Regal's trickery, and DDP wins the IC Title.

The Triple Threat Elimination Match between the ladies would have been a lot of fun, I think. People remember the match fondly, but my main interest in it is that we were in Trish's hometown, Jazz was the queen bitch of the ladies' division, and Lita had a bit of a history with her. Jazz could have pinned Lita first with the Fisherman Buster from the top, but then, before Jazz could finish off Trish Stratus, Lita could have shaken things off, and cost Jazz the match to Trish, giving the crowd another hometown hero win.

Kurt Angle vs. Edge could have been billed as "America vs. Canada." I mean, I believe Kurt Angle came to the ring bashing Canada's hockey team, anyway. Edge was on the rise at this time, and he ended up feuding with Angle, anyway. This would have been a great match, and Edge going over would have been a great way to elevate him.

The Undertaker was having his heel run at this point in time, and The Hardy Boyz did not like him one bit. That feud could have continued over into WrestleMania. Kane and The Undertaker were buddies at this point, I think, but they didn't really associate because Kane was good, and Taker was bad. Might as well have gone and made Kane a heel, too, and stuck them in a feud with The Hardys over the World Tag Team Championship. A Ladder Match could have been declared as it is Matt & Jeff's specialty, and would even the playing field a bit. I'd give the win to The Undertaker and Kane, but have The Hardy Boyz earn their respect.

Booker T vs. Ric Flair is a bit of an odd choice, but I think it would have been great with a story. Booker T was a heel at the time, and when the Alliance lost the invasion, Booker T should have really been a marked guy. Booker T, in theory, could have become a lackey to Vince McMahon, to earn his new boss' favour. Ric Flair was feuding with Vince at the time, so Vince could have sent Booker to take care of Flair. Ric Flair was also a symbol of politics in WCW, something that many felt Booker T was a victim of for a while. Booker T could have been fighting for his boss, and avenging what went wrong with WCW by going after Flair. Booker T winning would have been better than him jobbing to Edge, too.

The six-man tag team match pits the nWo against three WWE icons. The match would have been huge, in my opinion. I also like the nWo actually being in a match together, instead of spaced around the card. I'd actually have put the nWo over here, as they were just a month into their WWE debut together, and Ric Flair could have been taken out by Booker T, which could have led to the angle where Booker became a member of the nWo for a while. I'm not sure what Big Show was doing at this time, but if it was possible, he could have helped Hogan, Hall and Nash win the match, and joined the nWo.

The main event was the best title match possible with Jericho in it, I believe. It's a battle of the guys that many felt were kept down, and it would have been a good match, to boot. Rob Van Dam was fucking over at this point in time, and him winning the WWE World Championship (I always liked that idea for a name rather than the "Undisputed Title") at his first WrestleMania would have been a pretty big moment, I believe. You'd have RVD's first challengers set up in the nWo and Booker T, and things would have been pretty good for him.

[Good Ol JG]

Cons - The InVasion, the nWo return, John Cena, Randy Orton, Triple H during 2003-2004, the never ending Triple H-Shawn Michaels feud that headlined every fuckin PPV for 2 years, the botched Chris Benoit title run, the botched use of Sean O'Haire, Spirit Squad, Chris Masters, Khali (can't say enough how much of con he is), CONway, ECW, Matt Hardy's return, main events involving Khali, Mark Henry & Big Daddy V, hell, let's just call basically the last 3 years or so a con and move on.

Pros- the best thing they've done in the last few years was the Batista face turn. Perfect booking from beginning to end. The first One Night Stand was perfect. For an old school ECW fan, it's just about everything you wanted, minus a couple of guys not being there (ie, Raven, Funk). The Undertaker return angle for Wrestlemania 20 was pure gold. I loved how they built it up and brought him back.

To elaborate on some points from earlier:

Benoit's title run was crap. He won the belt in this epic match, had the rematch a month later, then he was an undercard world champion, defending the title in the fist or second match against La Resistance or some other scrubs, while Triple H and Shawn Michaels were still headlining every PPV. Hey, I like Shawn Michaels and even Triple H to some extent, but Benoit should've had the chance to carry the program. His title run sucked though.

Sean O'Haire - maybe it's just me, but I loved the Devil's Advocate gimmick. It was money. They could've used it to turn him into a big time heel, and at that time he was a really solid wrestler who could've done a lot for the company. But they stuck him with Piper, fired Piper, then buried him. Sad.

ECW- I don't have to mention how terrible ECW has been since it came back. One Night Stand was brilliant, the second One Night Stand was pretty good. It could've been awesome, but sadly, it has sucked.

Matt Hardy- His return was hot. Fans wanted it, it went over amazing on TV, they could've used that to really make Matt Hardy into something big. But, just like every time they've had a chance to do something huge, it's been fucked up.

[Johnny Vegas]

:y:

[The CyNick]

I think the World title match at WM X8 was a logical choice. HHH was coming off the quad injury and looked like the biggest star in the company heading into the Rumble that year. And Jericho had become the Undisputed champ.

Where they went off the rails with this program was in how the whole Jericho-Steph-HHH dynamic played out. Instead of them doing the obvious thing of making it out like Jericho was banging Steph, they just made Jericho an afterthought and played up more of the HHH vs Stephanie aspect of the match. Had Jericho been given more steam heading into the program (ie I'm banging your woman) with Hunter, it would have been a better match and had more heat.

The other problem with the show was putting on Rock-Hogan before the World Title match. I know they wanted the belt to seem important, and I'm sure Hunter wouldnt have wanted to play second banana to Rock again, but thats what was the clear choice. I seem to recall posting at the time (on here probably) that I thought Rock-Hogan would be getting the most cheers, and thats what happened. This should have been the final match on the show.