At times, I'm actually concerned with how they push their current Superstars.

[Splaya]

I've been watching a tremendous amount of RAW video's online from the Attitude era circa 1998 to 2000. It was so easy to boo people like Kane and The Undertaker when they were feuding with Austin over the title. It was so easy to cheer the Rock when he made his face turn because it was so gradual. I was thinking about this after Noid made a comment about turning Taker heel and moving him to RAW.

The problem with today's WWE is that you cannot create the heat that they want some people to have. Vickie Guerrero does nothing in the ring, strips the champ of his title, and is booed so hard at the beginning of a show, it made my spine tingle.

I guess that I'm ranting about how the WWE could capitalize on so much, but they are so ignorant over it. Turning John Cena right now would be BIG. I'm not saying that you would save the character, but I have a sinking feeling that because they have made him out to be the poster child of the WWE, they feel that they could not do it. It was so much easier to believe everything when we were younger. I knew that wrestling was fake at age 14 and I STILL ATE IT UP. The WWE is going more towards a younger audience and they fear that if they turn him heel, they will lose that crowd. They cannot bother to turn Taker heel because the little kids would still cheer him. I'm actually suprised that the fans in the crowd are cheering Kennedy.

Just give me your opinion guys

[Afterlife]

Kennedy gets his relatively huge reaction because he's being revered by the real WWE demographic. Adult men -- not children. He's the fiurst sign of a tough guy conduit between the company and the proper fanbase in...how long?

You're absolutely right about Cena. It would rock their world. In fact, a bad ass Cena and a rising Kennedy might remind the company who their demographic really is and how to get them back.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I agree with pretty much everything that has been said. The heat Vickie Guerrero has needs to be converted somehow. It's good that Vickie is over, but an active wrestler needs to capitalise on that. Edge could leave Vickie, and turn Guerrero face, which could lead to Chavo and Vickie getting closer, and Chavo turning to feud with Edge. Another idea is that Vickie actually leaves Edge, reveals she is with Chavo (which would increase her heat, seeing as it is another Guerrero, as distasteful as it may be), and Edge can turn face.

I don't know. It will be interesting to see where they put that heat of Vickie Guerrero.

[Destor]

I will say that Vickie is crazy over.

[NeanderCarl]

The WWE will never get away with marketing to children again with 80s style success due to the nature of the product and the reputation of the company, plus the ever-present copycat cases.

They definitely need to refocus the late night shows such as Raw on the teen/adult demographic, and throw some tame kid-orientated weekend shows out there with mainly interviews and squash matches, and cartoon like skits, to satisfy that audience. They will never be accepted by critics or television standards focus groups as suitable entertainment for children, and they will always have that resistance no matter how tame or wholesome the product; at the end of the day, it's very essence is men beating each other up!

[Mr. Nerfect]

I will say that face Kennedy is catching on.

[Mr. Nerfect]

An adult product is not going to scare kids away, either. The violence is what attracts them. If kids want to get their hands on something, they'll get it. Grand Theft Auto wasn't marketed to kids, but do you want to place a bet on how 12 year olds have it in their Xbox 360 right now?

[Kane Knight]

An adult product is not going to scare kids away, either. The violence is what attracts them. If kids want to get their hands on something, they'll get it. Grand Theft Auto wasn't marketed to kids, but do you want to place a bet on how 12 year olds have it in their Xbox 360 right now?

More importantly, in my mind, the kids will tune in for anything. That's one of the reasons the 18-34 demographics (technically two separate groups) are so coveted. They're discerning. Maybe not in a good way (Anyone who watches reality TV is suspect in that sense), but they give a shit about what's on, and if it doesn't turn them on, they turn it off. And that's what hurts shows in terms of ratings and sponsors. The kids were there in the Attitude Era.

Kids are often "along for the ride," But they're certainly not going to turn the channel in droves. And if they do, it will hardly impact ratings and buyrates. It probably won't affect ticket sales, either. It will affect merch sales, But even that I'm willing to bet will be mitigated by the fact that adults will start purchasing the shit for themselves again.

[Fox]

What they need is a good storyline. Stories are why people tune in to a show week in and week out, whether it's who's going to get kicked off next on Survivor/American Idol, or what happens next on Heroes, or who's going to hook up next in the Office, it's a story that gets people to come back for more.

The stories in the Attitude Era were simple: the nWo vs. WCW and Austin/DX vs. McMahon/Nation. People tuned in to watch the story that was unfolding concerning Hollywood Hulk Hogan, Eric Bischoff, Sting, Austin, McMahon, the Corporation. And not all of the characters remained stagnant, they didn't remain the same throughout. Rock changed A LOT throughout the Attitude Era. Mankind evolved into a WWE legend. Undertaker played a heel and a face. There were ups and downs for fans to watch and pay attention to.

What dynamic story is there today? Vickie and her power trip is interesting, but it's revolving around the same 3 fucking guys that it has been for the past year and a half: Undertaker, Edge and Batista. RAW has no through-line. It's just talking heads and pointless match making. The last good main storyline was Jeff Hardy's chase for the WWE Championship. People were buying into that and enjoying it because it was a week to week story, albeit not a very creative one, where Jeff would keep doing things to one-up the WWE Champion. Randy Orton, John Cena and Triple H generally just yell at each other, never saying anything new, and then wrestle some combination of them, plus Jericho or JBL here and there, and that's the show.

That's the show, but there's no story there. It's just not interesting anymore.

[Theo Dious]

I will say that Vickie is crazy over.

I will agree.

I will also say that, as much as this disturbs me, I would very much like to have sex with her.

[Rammsteinmad]

:nono:

[Kane Knight]

An element that's missing specifically in storylines, is that good stories, at least those on TV, and in series in general, have suspense. The "Spoilers: Cena Wins" bit alone should say how little suspense Raw has.

[Destor]

This is probably just me, but I think continuity is a big issue. For the casual and hardcore audience alike. For the casual they turn in once every so often only to see people who were going at it tooth and nail the last time they came into our little world now teaming and it's got to be a little weird. As for the hardcore what point is it for us to tune in week in and week out if it's all for naught? I dunno, this didn't come out the way I had intended it, but yeah.

Like you take wrestling form anything before the 90's and a fued guys had would ALWAYS be brought up any time they got near one another, but now a days none of it means anything. It's just what they are doing this month. I dunno, I cant think of many shows that could get away with that shit that aren't on in the middle of the day...if you follow my meaning.

[Heyman]

Just give me your opinion guys

I think a major problem that the WWE has right now, is that there are far too many "generic" wrestlers that simply don't hold the interest of the casual fan.

During the "Attitude era", almost each and ever character had a distinct identity....or atleast one that was highly "intriguing" or "off the wall."

Goldust, Kane, Mankind, Gangrel, Steve Blackman, Al Snow, Godfather, Road Dogg, Val Venis, D'Lo Brown, "Sexual Chocolate" Mark Henry, The Rock, Ken Shamrock, etc, etc. ALL of these guys had something very unique and/or intriguing about them. Even when top draw Stone Cold Steve Austin wasn't on the TV set, the fans were still glued to their seats (or TV monitors).

Most of the show revolved around the main storyline (which usually involved Vince/henchmen plotting to screw Austin....and vince versa), and this kept the fans captivated. On top of that however, there were lots of other interesting sub-plots that held the fans interest.

For a PERFECT example of what I am talking about, I highly encourage people to look up Summerslam 98'.....and the storyline/build-up leading up to that. In my opinion, Summerslam 98' was damn near perfect in EVERYTHING that they did.

Nowadays? You just never really get a sense that "something major is going to happen."

A lot of characters either have no interest amongst the fans, aren't tied into any major and/or interesting angles, or are just too stale. Furthermore - the WWE is sorely lacking a "central piece" storyline.

Sometimes - I get the sense when I'm watching the WWE, is that "I've seen everything that has needed to be seen." That's why I've only been a very casual fan for almost a year now.

[NeanderCarl]

Like you take wrestling form anything before the 90's and a fued guys had would ALWAYS be brought up any time they got near one another

Definitely. I think a lot of that was due to the skills of the commentators as well though. They made a point of mentioning that "Santana's gonna go right after Martel" at Royal Rumbles four or five years after their feud, or "no love lost between DiBiase and Virgil" years later too, and so on and so on.

[NeanderCarl]

But then with more squash matches and less PPVs, proper feuds stood out a lot more and were easier to remember back then. A top wrestler may only get two long programmes a year, and a couple of mini ones. You could probably take every angle and feud from the original Hogan era (1984-1992), and you wouldn't get a years worth of Raws and PPVs out of them today.

AND they'd be executed less effectively and with guys who weren't over in the slightest.

[James Steele]

I agree with the rivalries bit. After the HHH/HBK feud (the best feud since Austin/McMahon), why in the hell would they ever tag up again?

[Mr. Nerfect]

The WWE needs a massive storyline. Something that just glues the viewer to the set, no matter how ridiculous and silly it becomes.

[Afterlife]

Shane should try to usurp his father, with Cena as his right-hand man. A legitimate power struggle. Well, "legitimate", but you know what I mean. Those for, those against, and those neutral or playing the fence. Granted, we don't want another nWo meltdown scenario, but if we're just talking quick fix ideas to get the ball rolling in the creative department, a real stable battle / gang warfare bit might help to revive the attitude vibe.

[KingofKings]

Is it possible to say that nothing in wrestling is new anymore?? making it soo difficult to create fresh storylines and feuds.

I loved the time when Triple H and steph were together basically running the show, they were perfect heels, and the feuds that ensued were really entertainin, with the rock, and with angle, and jericho wen he used to cuss steph to death! The mcmahon/austin feuds will never be reborn, nor in my mind can they be replaced by something better!

I think the WWE needs to move away from attracting kids and start more on the teen/adult viewers, kids will always watch because they wanna see wrestling and their favorite stars, adults will only watch if it is appealing to them! Bring back long lasting feuds that change over time and are interesting! not lookin for a cheap pop out of the crowd. Push fresh up and coming stars - wCw had an elite set of stars who would always win and were always main eventers, it never works, yet at the same time the WWE were pushing up and comers, and it workd. They need to go back to that!! PUSH MORRISON, PUSH KENNEDY, PUSH JEFF HARDY, PUSH CM PUNK, PUSH MVP etc.

Alot more to add but there is just too much...

[Kane Knight]

It's possible to say there's nothing new anymore, but that's just a crutch for the uncreative. The same probably would have been said before the Attitude Era as well.

[Hanso Amore]

They have had success in recent years with mini feuds, between a main eventer and mid carder that made that person overnight (sadly none of them really kept the steam going.) I miss these.

Hurricane Vs Rock

Eugene vs HHH

HHH vs Shelton Benjamin

Orton vs Cody Rhodes

I agree with the generic statement. Now, everyone is a wrestler with a different nickname. Back then everyone was a character. They really need to work to separate people.

That is why I really like Duece and Domino....they stand out. They may be kind of a lame gimmick, but they are their own thing.

My friends at work rarely watch wrestling, but they get more into the "greaser tag team" and the "Italian that messes up English" than just another guy in tights, regardless of who his daddy is.

Too Cool, kaientai, The Brood etc didn't get over because they were good in the ring or on the mic, they did it because they were unique.

[PapaGeorgio]

Just seems like wrestling is missing so much these days. I thing a big part deals with Stables (and to some extent Managers). The biggest thing that always got me into wrestling was one stable just fucking with another stable. And the stable could be as big as WCW vs. nWo fued or just the DX vs. Nation type thing. There was a lot to do with it all too match wise. Instead of how they normally just do some stupid tag match combining two feuds, this allows for a variety of people to go against a variety of people.

Also the Shane McMahon power struggle idea is really good, and something that could really do well I feel if they make it more of the roster being split than just Shane vs Vince.

[PapaGeorgio]

Just seems like wrestling is missing so much these days. I thing a big part deals with Stables (and to some extent Managers). The biggest thing that always got me into wrestling was one stable just fucking with another stable. And the stable could be as big as WCW vs. nWo fued or just the DX vs. Nation type thing. There was a lot to do with it all too match wise. Instead of how they normally just do some stupid tag match combining two feuds, this allows for a variety of people to go against a variety of people.

Also the Shane McMahon power struggle idea is really good, and something that could really do well I feel if they make it more of the roster being split than just Shane vs Vince.

[Kane Knight]

I really want to see WWE fail.

Not a full out failure, like they go bankrupt or close down, but come on. They lost one of their TV deals, then their other major show was moved to the graveyard shift (And then they lost it), their ratings are dipping, their buyrates are dipping, attendances are down, even Wrestlemania didn't deliver as planned, and they seemed determine to "stay the course."

Each time one of these things happens, I look at it as an opportunity. I keep thinking "Maybe they'll finally get the hint." And then, of course, they don't.

Fuck, people died and they only changed the course short term.

So I keep hoping for a bigger shakeup. I hope that if the boat gets rocked enough, they'll start doing things like paying attention to the fans, and the ratings to see what works and what doesn't. I'm not saying they need to drop trou, but when you're turning fans away, something's wrong.

And once they get past this "You will like what we tell you to like" bullshit, maybe we'll see them push their talent.

And while I'm dreaming, I'd like an 80K a year job kicking Vince in the balls.

[PapaGeorgio]

Kane Knight, all of that may be true, but WWE operates on a financial basis. Being a public traded company, it must please the shareholders first over anyone else. And while the stock price has fallen this past month, it is generally still a good buy and doing fairly well overall. When the money stops coming in, then we can expect the major changes we all want.

[Kane Knight]

I know. I've commented on that dozens of times now. And, of course, their current course is unsustainable. Raising ticket prices and PPV pricess will only increase the profits of PPVs for so long if people continue to lose interest. The profitability of WWE videos will drop off, too, because they're only making more now due to an expansion. Eventually, they will reacha point at which sales drop off, due to the content released and the sheer volume.

Wrestlemania may have been the first major step in that sense. While it drew record attendence sales, it failed to even EQUAL the last WM in buys. Mania's always been one of the constants. It's always been a draw, no matter what, and a decline might be sobering if it becomes a trend. Of course, WWE hasn't changed course yet, so one "bad" 'Mania hasn't detered them, but more may.

But something does need to happen to force WWE's hand. As long as they're successful, even if they're only successful in this one respect, things won't change.

[Hanso Amore]

Exactly KK. Tickets/PPV cost keep going up to counteract the loss of fans/PPV buys. But at some point they are going to have to stop the rise, and that is when things are going to finally catch up to them.

Unless they start charging 200 for a PPV....

[Fox]

If only TNA didn't suck balls. They have so much fucking talent, and they do nothing with it. If TNA was good and got better ratings (you know the casual fans are looking for an alt. to WWE right now), then WWE might push their game up as well.

So, I blame TNA for sucking ass.

[Innovator]

Wrestling has forgotten how to protect guys they are pushing. You can't have a guy job out consistently for 6 months then decide to push him as a serious threat, and expect fans to buy into it.

[NeanderCarl]

I love how people yearn for the days of long lasting feuds and angles that sometimes go on for years, yet are the first to moan whenever WWE extends a feud and books the same match more than once on consecutive PPVs.

To me, the biggest problem is the sheer number of PPVs. I'd even say I'd rather pay a little more and get a quality, well-built show six times a year than pay less but get a shitty watered down rehash show every three weeks.

[Porcupine]

I love how people yearn for the days of long lasting feuds and angles that sometimes go on for years, yet are the first to moan whenever WWE extends a feud and books the same match more than once on consecutive PPVs.

To me, the biggest problem is the sheer number of PPVs. I'd even say I'd rather pay a little more and get a quality, well-built show six times a year than pay less but get a shitty watered down rehash show every three weeks.

Agreed 100%. The biggest problem with the business right now, from a fan standpoint (note : not from a financial standpoint for the company) is that there are too many pay per views and we just dont get enough build up or enough time to get into any of the angles/feuds before they run their course. I realize WWE makes more money because people do order more ppvs, so this isnt likely to change.

I say they should at least go to brand exclusive pay per views, except for Mania and Rumble.

[Afterlife]

And SummerSlam, and Survivor Series.


And Night of Champions.

[Porcupine]

And SummerSlam, and Survivor Series.


And Night of Champions.

MAYBE Summerslam but thats a stretch. Definetly not Survivor Series (althought it can alternate between RAW + SD) and Night Of Champions in unnecessary imo.

[Afterlife]

Why are those maybes? Those are the Big Four. NoC was a joke, by the way.

[Kane Knight]

Exactly KK. Tickets/PPV cost keep going up to counteract the loss of fans/PPV buys. But at some point they are going to have to stop the rise, and that is when things are going to finally catch up to them.

Unless they start charging 200 for a PPV....

And at that point, who's gonna stick around and shell out?

If only TNA didn't suck balls. They have so much fucking talent, and they do nothing with it. If TNA was good and got better ratings (you know the casual fans are looking for an alt. to WWE right now), then WWE might push their game up as well.

So, I blame TNA for sucking ass.

Yeah, for a long time I was hoping TNA would shape up, but they're not gonna. They've got their niche, and seem to not care if they go any further.

I love how people yearn for the days of long lasting feuds and angles that sometimes go on for years, yet are the first to moan whenever WWE extends a feud and books the same match more than once on consecutive PPVs.

People are mostly bitching because the programs are stale and boring. If they were exciting, they wouldn't give a shit if someone was booked two times in a row or ten. It's also usually that someone is given a title shot for no reason, which didn't happen in the days of long feuds. People earned shots, fought for shots, even blackmailed people for shots, but this reeks of "we're out of ideas...Let's give Batista a title shot."

[Innovator]

I miss old fashioned #1 contenders matches, and when the IC title meant you were ranked just a notch below the champ

[Fox]

Now it just means you're Chris Jericho, that guy who gets left off the card. :-\

[Afterlife]

And it only means you're Chris Jericho because the other guy got dosed.

[Kane Knight]

I miss old fashioned #1 contenders matches, and when the IC title meant you were ranked just a notch below the champ

Yeah, I remember thinking how cool it was when someone was the IC champ because they could "break through" to the big scene.

Nowadays, instead of being a step below the Champion, you're a notch above Heat.