Matt Hardy - jobber to the stars or just plain jobber?

[BigDaddyCool]

Let's face it, the guy has peaked and will never be more than midcard champion. He is a decent face and a lackluster heel. I mean he gets decent pops, but why? Also, he seems to work just hard enough in the ring. I'm not saying he goes on cruisecontrol, but he don't bust his ass night in and night out.

Discuss.

[thedamndest]

I am glad you took my suggestion from the other thread and I hope this thread delivers the goods.

[thedamndest]

Also, he will never "win the big one." ECW title doesn't count, no matter how cool it looks now.

[Juan]

Well, I can't see into the future, so I don't know if he'll ever be champion, but if he continues to be over, I don't see a reason why he can't make the jump. Which stars has he jobbed to? Edge like 4 years ago? MVP? Shelton Benjamin?

[BigDaddyCool]

Any title held by Tommy Dreamer can't be considered a big one.

[BigDaddyCool]

Well, I can't see into the future, so I don't know if he'll ever be champion, but if he continues to be over, I don't see a reason why he can't make the jump. Which stars has he jobbed to? Edge like 4 years ago? MVP? Shelton Benjamin?

Great point, I wouldn't really call any of them stars. So he isn't even a jobber to the stars.

[ron the dial]

i've been indifferent to matt hardy since like, what, 1999?

[Xero]

I'll be honest, he doesn't have that "it" feel to me. Once he broke away from Jeff I never saw him as a main event guy. Same with Jeff, really.

They should have just stayed together.

[thedamndest]

He's added a moonsault to his moveset. Awesome. About ten years too late.

[Xero]

He's had the moonsault for as long as I can remember.

[Verbose Minch]

He's added a moonsault to his moveset. Awesome. About ten years too late.

It's a good thing you've been paying attention to what he does. He's been doing that moonsault for a long time.

[thedamndest]

I'm gonna need youtube videos of matches where he uses the moonsault as a solo performer.

[thedamndest]

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/jtcgQbck0UE&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/jtcgQbck0UE&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[ron the dial]

lol oh god that looked terrible

[BigDaddyCool]

Matt Hardy bring the "medium sized match" feel. He works way to hard to win over rising and falling stars. He never looks strong enough to play with the big boys.

[Volare]

Ouch

[thedamndest]

Now if he had used a moonsault as his finish when he went solo instead of the ToF, he might be where Jeff is today.

[Xero]

He might be where Jeff is today if he didn't go all emo on the internets.

[BigDaddyCool]

He might be where Jeff is today if he didn't go all emo on the internets.

You mean he would recently be off suspension and missed working one of the biggest matches in his life because of a wellness policy violation? I wouldn't nessicarily say Jeff Hardy is in a better place than Matt Hardy.

[Xero]

You mean he would recently be off suspension and missed working one of the biggest matches in his life because of a wellness policy violation? I wouldn't nessicarily say Jeff Hardy is in a better place than Matt Hardy.

Okay, scratch that, he'd be where Jeff was about seven months ago.

[BigDaddyCool]

Jobbing to Randy Orton?

[BigDaddyCool]

Actaully the past year hasn't been the best time to be a Hardy. Jeff is a drug test away from being fired and Matt has been in and out of injury.

[Londoner]

Matt Hardy will be world heavyweight champion in future.

[Xero]

ECW Champion maybe.

[BigDaddyCool]

Matt Hardy will be world heavyweight champion in future.

TNA doesn't count.

[DarKCentaur]

The TNA Title is the equivalent of those foam belts that you can buy off Shopzone for like $15.

Getting back on topic, I think Matt could still be huge, and he should have been with the whole Edge thing. But again, booking...

[Anybody Thrilla]

I'll be honest, he doesn't have that "it" feel to me.

That's how I feel. No matter how many matches he wins, I'll just never be able to accept him as a 'major player'. Upper midcard at best.

[#1-norm-fan]

Matt Hardy is not a jobber.

The man had one of the better win loss records on SD during the MVP feud, then won the US Title and just lost it a couple weeks ago. He's no more of a jobber than 90% of the roster considering there is no focus on actually building up guys based on their win-loss record anymore.

And I can see Matt getting a main event push at some point. As far as being a MAJOR champion, I doubt it but you never know...

[#1-norm-fan]

Also, as a heel, V.1 was the goods. :cool:

[Londoner]

If the timing becomes right, and while Edge is WWE champ, i can see Matt winning in a feud with Edge over the WWE title.

[Hanso Amore]

Anyone who think he will ever get a better push than he just got over is crazy.

BDC once again, is right

[Sebastian]

I disagree I think Matt is very hard working he seems to put a lot of soul into his matches and thats why he gets pops even if he is jobbing.

However I think a lot of people are not looking at Matt Hardy straight because of his brother Jeff Hardy. You see, Jeff Hardy has always shined above Matt Hardy so people natural to ignore Matt and dont realize it themselves but really, Matt is very solid. Of course he is not as good as Jeff but in one way. He just doesnt take as many risks, but then again if Jeff didnt take as many risks he wouldnt have been suspended like 50 times already, so it might be his risk taking that both gives him a boost and also brings him down, so its tough.

But overall, I think Jeff has more charisma and Matt has more soul. They are both good, but WWE rewards hard work so I think Matt will go further.

[Juan]

If the Great Khali can be WHC and Big Show (circa 1999) can be WWE Champ, I don't think it's so hard to foresee Matt Hardy get at least a cup of coffee with a world title. He's better than a big chunk of the guys currently on the payroll, so it's not inconceivable for him to get the strap one day. Plus, he's pretty damn over with the live crowds.

[BigDaddyCool]

The TNA Title is the equivalent of those foam belts that you can buy off Shopzone for like $15.

Getting back on topic, I think Matt could still be huge, and he should have been with the whole Edge thing. But again, booking...

The only way Matt can be huge is if he gets really depressed and just starts eating and eating and eating.

[Kane Knight]

They could so something with Matt, but they won't. They could have put him over several times now, made him big (Or given the chance to fail on his own merit, rather than that of a dead end, lackluster gimmick). Instead, he's become one of those partners who doesn't really do any work for the company anymore, they just roll him out for the PR and at the occasional party.

The major difference being that Hardy's still low tier, he's a "partner" only in the sense of his time with the company.

Hardy is a solid, talented worker, but to ammount to anything, he needs to be liked by the higher ups. I mean, he outpopped DX, but he's still going to remain a jobber until he starts kissing some major ass, because the pushes tend to go to the guys Vince likes, whether they're over or not.

[Juan]

<div><object width="420" height="307"><param name="movie" value="http://www.dailymotion.com/swf/x15egf&related=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.dailymotion.com/swf/x15egf&related=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="420" height="307" allowFullScreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always"></embed></object><br /><b><a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x15egf_matt-hardy-vs-jeff-hardyhardcore-ma_extreme">Matt Hardy vs Jeff Hardy-Hardcore Match</a></b><br /><i>Uploaded by <a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/byrne10">byrne10</a></i></div>

<div><object width="420" height="336"><param name="movie" value="http://www.dailymotion.com/swf/x5gqfj&related=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.dailymotion.com/swf/x5gqfj&related=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="420" height="336" allowFullScreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always"></embed></object><br /><b><a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5gqfj_matt-hardy-vs-christian-vs-eddie-gu_sport">Matt Hardy vs Christian vs Eddie Guerrero-Backlash 2001</a></b><br /><i>Uploaded by <a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/sir-roddick">sir-roddick</a></i></div>

<div><object width="420" height="332"><param name="movie" value="http://www.dailymotion.com/swf/x2tcex&related=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.dailymotion.com/swf/x2tcex&related=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="420" height="332" allowFullScreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always"></embed></object><br /><b><a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2tcex_brock-lesnar-vs-matt-hardy_sport">Brock Lesnar vs. Matt Hardy</a></b><br /><i>Uploaded by <a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/Stinger1981">Stinger1981</a></i></div>

<div><object width="420" height="336"><param name="movie" value="http://www.dailymotion.com/swf/x24q4r&related=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.dailymotion.com/swf/x24q4r&related=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="420" height="336" allowFullScreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always"></embed></object><br /><b><a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x24q4r_edge-vs-matt-hardy-wwe-summerslam_sport">Edge vs Matt Hardy: WWE Summerslam</a></b><br /><i>Uploaded by <a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/PWF">PWF</a></i></div>

<div><object width="420" height="336"><param name="movie" value="http://www.dailymotion.com/swf/x5yreb&related=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.dailymotion.com/swf/x5yreb&related=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="420" height="336" allowFullScreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always"></embed></object><br /><b><a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5yreb_noc-2962008-chavo-guerrero-vs-matt_sport">NOC - 29/6/2008 - Chavo Guerrero vs Matt Hardy - 1/2</a></b><br /><i>Uploaded by <a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/rey_mysterio_wwe">rey_mysterio_wwe</a></i></div>

<div><object width="420" height="336"><param name="movie" value="http://www.dailymotion.com/swf/x66ec9&related=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.dailymotion.com/swf/x66ec9&related=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="420" height="336" allowFullScreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always"></embed></object><br /><b><a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x66ec9_smackdown18072008-matt-hardy-vs-jef_sport">SmackDown.18.07.2008 - Matt Hardy Vs Jeff Hardy</a></b><br /><i>Uploaded by <a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/dido67">dido67</a></i></div>

<div><object width="420" height="257"><param name="movie" value="http://www.dailymotion.com/swf/x67ucz&related=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.dailymotion.com/swf/x67ucz&related=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="420" height="257" allowFullScreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always"></embed></object><br /><b><a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x67ucz_shelton-benjamin-vs-matt-hardy-usti_people">Shelton Benjamin Vs Matt Hardy US-Title</a></b><br /><i>Uploaded by <a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/brian48">brian48</a></i></div>

[Mr. Nerfect]

He might be where Jeff is today if he didn't go all emo on the internets.

The irony here is that Matt Hardy got to the point of his career when he was the most over he's ever been by doing exactly this.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Anyone who think he will ever get a better push than he just got over is crazy.

BDC once again, is right

You committed way too hard to that, MAH. Now when Matt Hardy does amount to more, you're going to make BDC look like an idiot.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Matt Hardy has become a ring general, in my opinion. To say that he doesn't work hard enough in the ring is ridiculous. Of course, you said the same thing about Chris Jericho and think Kevin Nash is a brilliant ring psychologist, so I'm sure it's meant to be taken lightly.

Every week, Matt Hardy will have one of the better matches of the week. He's someone to look forward to seeing working. That shows how much he has grown over the years. As a tag team guy, he was always the smarter worker, who planned out the matches, and took fewer risks, but he has grown into a guy I think could be considered a "great worker" now. Maybe he can't carry a broomstick to a good match, yet, but he's getting pretty fucking close to it.

The feuds Matt Hardy has been a part of have been fantastic. His stuff with MVP was incredible. Then you can go back to his feud with Gregory Helms, which not as many people saw, as there wasn't a title involved, but the series of matches they had were solid at the very worst. Worth of both men's future DVD sets, even if they have some classics in the future. His matches with Chavo Guerrero and Shelton Benjamin have been really, really fun. As has his work against John Morrison & The Miz.

Instead of trying to analyse why Matt Hardy is over, maybe it would be wiser to accept that he is? The reactions Hardy gets are fantastic. The fans love him, and the only time I felt backlash against him was at The Great American Bash. I think winning the ECW Title will refresh Matt Hardy greatly, though. And yes, that will make him the first Hardy to win a World Title, as it should be.

On the mic, Matt is still the stronger Hardy, and he can play a damn good heel character when he needs to. Mattitude was fucking great back in the day. I also love the heelish shades he introduced to his character at Money in the Bank last year, and the streak of cockiness he seemed to get when he won the US Title.

Will the WWE do anything with Matt Hardy? Who can say? They know how over he is, and they obviously appreciate his abilities, to the point where they have put many titles on him over the years, and have made him the top face of ECW. The problem is not with Matt Hardy, it's with the minds who use him.

Hardy is one of those guys I can see the WWE turning into a road agent/producer when his in-ring days are done. He is great at planning matches, and he has a good understanding of what goes on in there, and he can teach people how to connect with crowds. I think Matt Hardy is going to be a very rich man by the end of his career.

[Kane Knight]

If the timing becomes right, and while Edge is WWE champ, i can see Matt winning in a feud with Edge over the WWE title.

To what end? I mean, I'm sure it could happen. IT's just that I can't imagine them doing that right when they pissed away the feud that was arguably the biggest one at the time (And one that could have been huge).

Can you really see them doing it right?

A commonly used definition of insanity is repeating the same process and expecting different results. And while I'd just as soon they not fuck this up, the sad truth is that they most certainly would.

[BigDaddyCool]

Matt Hardy has become a ring general, in my opinion. To say that he doesn't work hard enough in the ring is ridiculous. Of course, you said the same thing about Chris Jericho and think Kevin Nash is a brilliant ring psychologist, so I'm sure it's meant to be taken lightly.

Every week, Matt Hardy will have one of the better matches of the week. He's someone to look forward to seeing working. That shows how much he has grown over the years. As a tag team guy, he was always the smarter worker, who planned out the matches, and took fewer risks, but he has grown into a guy I think could be considered a "great worker" now. Maybe he can't carry a broomstick to a good match, yet, but he's getting pretty fucking close to it.

The feuds Matt Hardy has been a part of have been fantastic. His stuff with MVP was incredible. Then you can go back to his feud with Gregory Helms, which not as many people saw, as there wasn't a title involved, but the series of matches they had were solid at the very worst. Worth of both men's future DVD sets, even if they have some classics in the future. His matches with Chavo Guerrero and Shelton Benjamin have been really, really fun. As has his work against John Morrison & The Miz.

Instead of trying to analyse why Matt Hardy is over, maybe it would be wiser to accept that he is? The reactions Hardy gets are fantastic. The fans love him, and the only time I felt backlash against him was at The Great American Bash. I think winning the ECW Title will refresh Matt Hardy greatly, though. And yes, that will make him the first Hardy to win a World Title, as it should be.

On the mic, Matt is still the stronger Hardy, and he can play a damn good heel character when he needs to. Mattitude was fucking great back in the day. I also love the heelish shades he introduced to his character at Money in the Bank last year, and the streak of cockiness he seemed to get when he won the US Title.

Will the WWE do anything with Matt Hardy? Who can say? They know how over he is, and they obviously appreciate his abilities, to the point where they have put many titles on him over the years, and have made him the top face of ECW. The problem is not with Matt Hardy, it's with the minds who use him.

Hardy is one of those guys I can see the WWE turning into a road agent/producer when his in-ring days are done. He is great at planning matches, and he has a good understanding of what goes on in there, and he can teach people how to connect with crowds. I think Matt Hardy is going to be a very rich man by the end of his career.

I have no idea what noid is saying, but I know this thread is now a success.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I have no idea what noid is saying, but I know this thread is now a success.

How so? You didn't antagonise anyone. If you were a Batman villain, BDC, you'd job to the Mad Hatter.

[BigDaddyCool]

Shut up noid you know nothing of wrestling nor batman. Matt Hardy sucks and will forever suck. Jeff is a drugged out wierdo that ruins whatever he might have.

[Kane Knight]

How so? You didn't antagonise anyone.

Yeah, Noid is naturally this bitchy. :rofl:

Seriously, BDC, getting a tl;dr response out of Noid takes little more than asking him the time. No points for you.

Though immense rep for the first non-Noid person to fabricate such a conversation. :D

[Exyle]

Matt's a great worker, no doubt. He always seems to on the cusp of success, but never quite makes it. While this isn't necessarily a catch-all solution that will instantly put Matt over the top, I honestly believe that changing his look up a bit might just be the edge he needs.

I mean, he hasn't changed his look since the Hardys were split. To a lot of fans (and perhaps to the people backstage calling the shots), that will make him look stale. Maybe even dated.

So I say cut the hair. Change the attire. Make the world see that this is a new Matt Hardy.

[thedamndest]

Juan has shown me the error of my ways in thinking Matt never busts out the moonsault. I stand by that if he had that as a finisher, or as an alternate finisher, on a regular basis he would be in the ME scene.

[BigDaddyCool]

Matt looks like a tired, out off breathe, sloppy old man when he is signalling for the twist of fate. That is why he won't be mainevent.

Plus he needs a submission or something.

[Pardeep 619]

Juan has shown me the error of my ways in thinking Matt never busts out the moonsault. I stand by that if he had that as a finisher, or as an alternate finisher, on a regular basis he would be in the ME scene.

I personally think he should use the Side Effect as his finisher

[Kane Knight]

Matt looks like a tired, out off breathe, sloppy old man when he is signalling for the twist of fate. That is why he won't be mainevent.

Plus he needs a submission or something.ll do that really retarded hand symbols that looks like he's having a seizure?

[thedamndest]

Yeah, he definitely needs a submission. I hate how when you get to the main event scene you just "get" a submission.

[Y2Ant]

How so? You didn't antagonise anyone. If you were a Batman villain, BDC, you'd job to the Mad Hatter.

:rofl:

Shut up noid you know nothing of wrestling nor batman. Matt Hardy sucks and will forever suck. Jeff is a drugged out wierdo that ruins whatever he might have.

Why so serious? :(

[BigDaddyCool]

Shut up Y2Ant

[Mr. Nerfect]

Shut up noid you know nothing of wrestling nor batman. Matt Hardy sucks and will forever suck. Jeff is a drugged out wierdo that ruins whatever he might have.

Nah, I'm actually a mark for Batman. My dad's always been into the character, and has collected Batman comics for years before I was even born. I've grown up with the knowledge pounded into me.

Also, when you tell people to shut up, they don't. Proof of your failure to be an appropriate villain.

KK, my post wasn't bitchy. Are you fucking retarded? Yes? OK.

[4 knuckles up]

KK, my post wasn't bitchy. Are you fucking retarded? Yes? OK.

Well, that post kinda was... :shifty:

[Fox]

Yeah, he definitely needs a submission. I hate how when you get to the main event scene you just "get" a submission.

"Congratulations! You have beaten the WWE Champion and unlocked Smackdown! Submission Power! Please select a submission hold as your new secondary finisher."

[Fox]

Also, Noid, Matt Hardy is good and he's a solid mid-carder at best, but I don't know if he's the ring general you are suggesting. Not yet, at least.

Still, I don't see his move to ECW as a demotion, nor his loss of the US Title to Shelton Benjamin as any kind of punishment. I mean, he's pretty much in the same position as CM Punk was for the past couple of years, and he's the World Heavyweight Champion now.

Matt's still relatively young. He has time to capture the World Title.

[Kane Knight]

Nah, I'm actually a mark for Batman. My dad's always been into the character, and has collected Batman comics for years before I was even born. I've grown up with the knowledge pounded into me.

Also, when you tell people to shut up, they don't. Proof of your failure to be an appropriate villain.

KK, my post wasn't bitchy. Are you fucking retarded? Yes? OK.

LOL, it's cute watching you try and call someone else retarded.

See how easy it is, BDC?

[Kane Knight]

Actually, I wonder if Kano and Noid are twins or something. They seem to share the same brain cell. :D