Do you think that Cena's becomeing a bigger babyface then Hulk or Lex?

[Rollermacka]

I know I'm not the only one noticing how they've already began the "love Cena" push before he's back from surgury but I gotta ask do you think that Cena is becoming a bigger babyface than Hulk Hogan or "The Man Made In America" Lex Luger?

[Gertner]

Luger yes, Hogan no. Hogan is on a higher level.

[Rollermacka]

Luger yes, Hogan no. Hogan is on a higher level.

I always though the WWE spent ALOT of time and money trying to make Lex Luger from a heel in WCW and the Narcissist into a "Everyone love me" kinda character. With the Helicopter landing on July 4th, to the Made in America tour bus, and the fact that his theme was stars and stripes forever they were trying to make him bigger than Hulk was in the WWF.

[Kane Knight]

John Cena is the highest drawing champion since Steve Austin. He's clearly the biggest babyface ever.

[Ruien]

No one will ever top Hogan.

[Gertner]

I always though the WWE spent ALOT of time and money trying to make Lex Luger from a heel in WCW and the Narcissist into a "Everyone love me" kinda character. With the Helicopter landing on July 4th, to the Made in America tour bus, and the fact that his theme was stars and stripes forever they were trying to make him bigger than Hulk was in the WWF.

That's the thing. They tried to make Luger that big, but failed. Didn't even get a title in the WWE.

[Gertner]

John Cena is the highest drawing champion since Steve Austin. He's clearly the biggest babyface ever.

Just wondering, could be off on this, but does that have anything to do with ticket prices being more expensive during Cena's period compared to Hogan's?

[Xero]

Cena bigger than Hogan? No. Not until someone can become synonymous with wrestling will they be bigger than him. When people think professional wrestling, people who have never seen one match will likely name Hogan. I'd say it's similar with Austin, but to a lesser extent.

In my opinion, the scale goes as such (general):

Hulk Hogan
Austin
Rock
John Cena

Cena still has time to grow up to surpass Austin and Rock status, but I SERIOUSLY doubt he'll ever be Hogan level.

As for Luger, just because he was pushed as such doesn't mean he was a success. So yes.

[DrA]

Cena will never be as big as Luger.

[St. Jimmy]

... Why has no one done it yet... do I HAVE to? FINE.

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[Loose Cannon]

I would be Taker well above Cena as well.

[Hanso Amore]

Seriously, most people who dotn watch wrestling know who Cena is....but they all know Taker, HBK, HHH, Austin, Rock, Foley, Flair, hart, goldberg sometimes, Macho and Warrior etc

Not only is Cena NOT synonymous with Wrestling amongst wrestling fans, he is a nobody to the rest of the world.

he has been pushed harder than anyone ever in the WWE, and he never took off like the others.

[Kane Knight]

Seriously, most people who dotn watch wrestling know who Cena is....but they all know Taker, HBK, HHH, Austin, Rock, Foley, Flair, hart, goldberg sometimes, Macho and Warrior etc

Not only is Cena NOT synonymous with Wrestling amongst wrestling fans, he is a nobody to the rest of the world.

he has been pushed harder than anyone ever in the WWE, and he never took off like the others.

You kidding? Where was Austin's hit movie or amazing rap album?

[Rollermacka]

You kidding? Where was Austin's hit movie or amazing rap album?

What about The Condemed? :shifty:

[Nark Order]

I was under the impression that faces were supposed to get cheered?

[Kane Knight]

What about The Condemed? :shifty:

I said "hit," not "Direct to DVD."

I was under the impression that faces were supposed to get cheered?

Cena gets cheered every week.

[Nark Order]

Difference is, I don't remember ever seeing Austin getting a massive ridiculous pop one week and then being completely hated the next and then have it alternate week in and week out. There was a year period or so where he was definitely booed much more than cheered. And I hate it when they say he's 'contreversial' because he gets booed so much. For anybody else, that would just mean being bad at your job.

[Heyman]

IF (and this is a big IF) Cena goes back to rapping like he did pre Wrestlemania 21, then I definitely think he has a shot (albeit, a small one) of becoming one of the most successful faces in WWE history (although he may already fit this category).

As far as Hogan, Austin, Rock, goes, I don't think he has a chance of catching Hogan....or Austin for that matter. The Rock is a possibility, but he'll have his work cut out. Given that wrestling is no longer as popular as it once was, I'd say his chances are even less.

[Kane Knight]

Difference is, I don't remember ever seeing Austin getting a massive ridiculous pop one week and then being completely hated the next and then have it alternate week in and week out. There was a year period or so where he was definitely booed much more than cheered. And I hate it when they say he's 'contreversial' because he gets booed so much. For anybody else, that would just mean being bad at your job.

It's pretty clear WWE wanted that, since they were commenting on it...

[Nark Order]

No, they were commenting on it to cover it up and to make it seem fresh and cool with him being 'contreversial'. The boos came naturally because the Cena character is so incredibly boring. The man is definitely charismatic but has a very limited moveset, and relies on poop jokes to make his promos. You can only take so many 'JBL is poopy' jokes before you begin to hate the guy. You're being a little ridiculous with your 'WWE meant for the fans to boo him', you know that isn't true. WWE doesn't control every fan reaction. People boo Cena because they've seen everything he has to offer already and now it's boring. Really boring.

[Tazz Dan]

That's the thing. They tried to make Luger that big, but failed. Didn't even get a title in the WWE.

Weren't him and Bulldog tag champs?

And I also thought the story was Lex was meant to win the WWF Title at WMX but Vince changed his mind at the last second because Lex had been telling people he was going to win.

I could be wrong though :y:

[Heyman]

I know I'm not the only one noticing how they've already began the "love Cena" push before he's back from surgury but I gotta ask do you think that Cena is becoming a bigger babyface than Hulk Hogan or "The Man Made In America" Lex Luger?

Re-Reading this thread, I have this to add:

Never mind Hogan, Austin, and The Rock, is Cena even bigger (as a face) than the following?

-Goldberg
-Bret Hart
-Undertaker
-Chris Jericho (2000-2001).
-Ultimate Warrior

[The Optimist]

Weren't him and Bulldog tag champs?

And I also thought the story was Lex was meant to win the WWF Title at WMX but Vince changed his mind at the last second because Lex had been telling people he was going to win.

I could be wrong though :y:I had to look it up but they never won the tag team titles. They fucked up the one chance they got and were only a team for like eight months.

[AKin3D]

Re-Reading this thread, I have this to add:

Never mind Hogan, Austin, and The Rock, is Cena even bigger (as a face) than the following?

-Goldberg
WCW NO. WWE I have to say yes
-Bret Hart
NO
-Undertaker
NO
-Chris Jericho (2000-2001).
NO
-Ultimate Warrior
It's close but YES

[Nark Order]

Re-Reading this thread, I have this to add:

Never mind Hogan, Austin, and The Rock, is Cena even bigger (as a face) than the following?

-Goldberg
-Bret Hart
-Undertaker
-Chris Jericho (2000-2001).
-Ultimate Warrior

Goldberg- No, but I'd say it's damn close tbh. Cena has ten times the charisma that Goldberg will ever have. Bill had a massive following though.

Bret Hart- Considering we still have a bunch of Bret following grease rats that plague these forums after he's been gone for 6-7 years, I'll say no.

Undertaker- No way. Undertaker is one of my favorite heel characters when he is actually heel. It writes itself. Evilness.

Chris Jericho- Yes. He's bigger than Jericho ever was as a face, whether people want to admit it or not. Jericho's best work has ALWAYS been as a heel. Whether he's a funny heel, serioud heel, lackey heel, Jericho is the fucking man. His face work has always been alright, but I think he's just a better heel. Way better performer than Cena though by miles.

Ultimate Warrior- Yes.

[Kane Knight]

No, they were commenting on it to cover it up and to make it seem fresh and cool with him being 'contreversial'. The boos came naturally because the Cena character is so incredibly boring. The man is definitely charismatic but has a very limited moveset, and relies on poop jokes to make his promos. You can only take so many 'JBL is poopy' jokes before you begin to hate the guy. You're being a little ridiculous with your 'WWE meant for the fans to boo him', you know that isn't true. WWE doesn't control every fan reaction. People boo Cena because they've seen everything he has to offer already and now it's boring. Really boring.

By that logic, he should clearly still have been overwhelmingly booed by the time he was injured, and that surely wasn't true.

[Fryza]

Becomeing.

[taker707]

Biggest of all time !!!!


Hogan
Austin
Rock
andre
taker


thats my top 5 most recongizable names

[Triple Naitch]

If we're being technical about the term babyface, then I would say that Austin, Rock, and Taker aren't exactly babyfaces. They are cheered for being bad ass, while Hulkamania Hogan, USA Lex Luger, and Cena are cheered because they were family-friendly faces.

[DrA]

Seriously, most people who dotn watch wrestling know who Cena is....but they all know Taker, HBK, HHH, Austin, Rock, Foley, Flair, hart, goldberg sometimes, Macho and Warrior etc

Not only is Cena NOT synonymous with Wrestling amongst wrestling fans, he is a nobody to the rest of the world.

he has been pushed harder than anyone ever in the WWE, and he never took off like the others.

That's not true. John Cena has become a well known name out of the WWE sense. Certainly more people know who John Cena is than most of those guys you've mentioned.

Honestly, how would the average person know who Shawn Michaels or Mick Foley is but not John Cena?

[DrA]

If you search John Cena's name on Google, he gets about three times as many results than Shawn Michaels or Chuck Liddell. He gets twice as many results as Peyton Manning. He also gets more than LeBron James or Mike Tyson.

If you consider that to have significant relevance, then John Cena is among the top internet names not only in the "fighting genre", but of all of sports.

[Kane Knight]

John Cena--7,000,000
Chuck Liddell--1,500,000
Payton Manning--2,870,000
Stone Cold Steve Austin--1,000,000
Stephen Colbert--2,880,000
On a related note, Spider-Man and Barack Obama are about as popular as one another. I'm not sure which one WWE should sign, but....

[Zen v.W.o.]

Seriously, most people who dotn watch wrestling know who Cena is....but they all know Taker, HBK, HHH, Austin, Rock, Foley, Flair, hart, goldberg sometimes, Macho and Warrior etc

Not only is Cena NOT synonymous with Wrestling amongst wrestling fans, he is a nobody to the rest of the world.

he has been pushed harder than anyone ever in the WWE, and he never took off like the others.

Xero put Cena above the likes of PIPER, HART, TAKER and HBK at their peaks. Yowza.

Ask anyone above 30 who Cena is, compared to these guys. Then ask people less than 30 and you'll still get a close outcome. You wont the other way.

[Fabien Barthez]

If you are talking in terms of how well they are known by people with little to no knowledge of Pro Wrestling, then I would say no. Obviously not about Luger, thats rediculous...

I would have Hulk, Warrior, Savage, Andre, flair, Hart, Austin, Rock and Taker all difinitively above Cena.

But to the 10-21 demographic, I guess he is quite big.

Is there a stat fan out there willing to seek out his merchandise sales percentages and comparisons?

[NeanderCarl]

Thing is, when wrestling's hot, you can't walk down the street or into a store without seeing T-shirts, posters, toys... TV and magazine features everywhere, lots of guest spots on popular TV shows.... high profile wrestling shows in better primetime TV positions.... parents know the wrestlers because the kids love them... so the average man on the street is more likely to know a top wrestler (or even a midcarder) during a mainstream hot period than know the tippy top guy during a downward swing. Now, I'm not saying that today's wrestling scene is anywhere near as bleak as, say, 1995... but it doesn't have the widespread visibility of Attitude or Hulkamania.

So no matter how much Cena is pushed as a babyface, he will still be less generally known than a guy like Austin, Rock, Hogan, Savage or even their lower-card contemporaries like Jake Roberts or Mick Foley.

Doesn't make Cena less of a successful babyface within the wrestling world, however, just less well known to the general public... which you could tie together if you wanted to make that argument, but really they're not mutually exclusive.

What DOES make him less of a successful babyface than some of the names listed is the fans' constant refusal to accept him in the role and cheer him. It is true that the vocal distaste towards him at live shows has dissipated somewhat, but only as WWE weeds out its older audience in favour of the kids who always loved him anyway.

[Kane Knight]

Thing is, when wrestling's hot, you can't walk down the street or into a store without seeing T-shirts, posters, toys... TV and magazine features everywhere, lots of guest spots on popular TV shows.... high profile wrestling shows in better primetime TV positions.... parents know the wrestlers because the kids love them... so the average man on the street is more likely to know a top wrestler (or even a midcarder) during a mainstream hot period than know the tippy top guy during a downward swing. Now, I'm not saying that today's wrestling scene is anywhere near as bleak as, say, 1995... but it doesn't have the widespread visibility of Attitude or Hulkamania.

So no matter how much Cena is pushed as a babyface, he will still be less generally known than a guy like Austin, Rock, Hogan, Savage or even their lower-card contemporaries like Jake Roberts or Mick Foley.

Doesn't make Cena less of a successful babyface within the wrestling world, however, just less well known to the general public... which you could tie together if you wanted to make that argument, but really they're not mutually exclusive.

What DOES make him less of a successful babyface than some of the names listed is the fans' constant refusal to accept him in the role and cheer him. It is true that the vocal distaste towards him at live shows has dissipated somewhat, but only as WWE weeds out its older audience in favour of the kids who always loved him anyway.

Thing is, Cena does have mainstream recognisability.

Google hits shouldn't be the end all, but it should certainly indicate something.

Aside from that, Popularity with kids, increasing popularity with kids still does exactly what you're talking about. Parents know them. Older siblings know them. Moviegoers know Cena, even if they don't take him seriously. He did manage to see a fair amount of success with his rap album, too. It's not going to go 20X multiplatinum (In fact, despite strong commercial sales, it's yet to be certified by the RIAA at all), but Cena is one of the people that consistently makes WWE money, and it's for a decent, if unfortunate reason.

[NeanderCarl]

I didn't say anything to the contrary, it's just that Cena is famous on a lesser scale than Hogan or Austin were. But like I say, that doesn't have to neccessarily have any bearing on the "is he as successful a babyface" question.

As for Google hits, they're probably not completely meaningless, but if the internet was as vast and accessible in 1998 as it is today, I'm sure Austin's hits would outnumber Cena's today, comparitively.

[Hanso Amore]

Ask a random non wrestling fan on the street about wrestling and you will hear....


Hogan
Andre
Flair
Austin
Rock
Goldberg
DX
NWO

Then maybe Cena.

Cena is well known because he is the top face in a down time.

But Those others are known because they were on during a hot time

CA Carl was right though, so many people know DX/NWO and the such from T shirts and shit.

[Nark Order]

I'm sure Austin would have had 10 times as many search resluts in 98 or so. Don't think that's a great way to calculate popularity.

[BigDaddyCool]

Who is this Cena fellow you are talking about?

[Kane Knight]

I didn't say anything to the contrary, it's just that Cena is famous on a lesser scale than Hogan or Austin were. But like I say, that doesn't have to neccessarily have any bearing on the "is he as successful a babyface" question.

As for Google hits, they're probably not completely meaningless, but if the internet was as vast and accessible in 1998 as it is today, I'm sure Austin's hits would outnumber Cena's today, comparitively.

That's pointless speculation, though.

[NeanderCarl]

To be fair, considering the subjective nature of the topics discussed, 99% of these forums boil down to "pointless speculation".

And due to the fact that 86% of all statistics are made up on the spot, who can ever be 100% accurate about anything ever when discussing popularity, success et al? You perhaps have a 50/50 shot at getting a one-in-a-million fact spot on. So chances are that at least three quarters of everything that is said ever in any medium has the potential to primarily be pointless speculation. And I'm just adding my 2 cents to it. You do the math.

[XL]

And due to the fact that 86% of all statistics are made up on the spot
Please tell me you made that stat on the spot!

[Juan]

To be fair, considering the subjective nature of the topics discussed, 99% of these forums boil down to "pointless speculation".

And due to the fact that 86% of all statistics are made up on the spot, who can ever be 100% accurate about anything ever when discussing popularity, success et al? You perhaps have a 50/50 shot at getting a one-in-a-million fact spot on. So chances are that at least three quarters of everything that is said ever in any medium has the potential to primarily be pointless speculation. And I'm just adding my 2 cents to it. You do the math.

That's a good point Carl. There's really no way for us to know what the stats are really like. As you said, we can speculate, but in the end all we have to go by is what we see on TV and maybe the occasional dirtsheet report, and even then, it's not first-hand information.

[NeanderCarl]

Please tell me you made that stat on the spot!

Naturally.

[Fox]

Cena vs. Luger = Ratings