QUESTION - Does Randy Orton have potential to be the BIGGEST face in the WWE?

[Heyman]

QUESTION - Does Randy Orton have potential to be the BIGGEST face in the WWE? (in the current era)

After posting on TPWW for a number of years now, I have realized that people on here have very short attention spans. Hence - I will try and be brief:

Here is why I think Orton has a HUGE chance of becoming a success as a face.



Charisma.
During the time Orton was injured, the WWE did a GREAT job of having Orton come out, and interrupting HEELS. Orton maintained his cocky attitude and ripped on HEELS a lot of time. I loved it.
Orton "doesn't give a fuck" and will tell you to your face what he thinks about you. I get the impression that with his current personna, he will CONTINUE to do that..and act 'badass' (unlike 99.9999% of other heels that turn face).
Orton is already a 'top-tier' superstar and has credibility amongst the fans.
Orton has the coolest entrance theme in the WWE (atleast in my opinion ;)).

If it was up to me?

-I'd have Orton beat Batista (not cleanly here, but not completely pussified here either).

-Afterwards, I'd have Orton start beating top-tier faces cleanly. No cheating...no bullshit. Have him beat HBK, Khali, etc. all cleanly. Even some top faces from Smackdown. Basically - Orton gets "built up" as a guy that won't kiss anyone's ass (even the fans), and will still beat you fair and square. The fans will RESPECT that...and will eventually start to give him huge face pops (with far less heel heat...if any).

-I'd have Orton win the Rumble (have him be the 1st entrant).

-At Wrestlemania, I'd have the main-event be Randy Orton vs. John Cena. (Cena defeats Batista cleanly at some point before Mania to retain the title). If possible - I'd even try and do a heel/face switch a la Austin/Bret Wrestlemania 13. In a Cena/Orton WM main-event match, fans will be popping huge for Orton anyways (while booing the shit out of Cena). Orton however, defeats Cena.


Heyman's Summary:

In my opinion - NOW is the time to start pushing Orton to the moon. Keep Orton's character constant, have him start defeating faces cleanly (and in some cases, convincingly), have Orton win the rumble, have Orton win the title at Mania over Cena (perhaps even doing an Austin/Bret type heel/face switch).

Most importantly however - do NOT let Orton start kissing the fans' ass if he turns face. If possible - I wouldn't even mind seeing Orton collectively turn his 'stable' face as well.

'Priceless' gets positioned as a group that doesn't like Orton...but respects Orton....and have become *way* better for it.

[screech]

I think he has the potential to be the biggest face OR heel in WWE. I agree that his latest persona is setting up for a great face turn, but Orton as a heel is the goods. He plays the cocky "I can beat you and we both know it" character so well. I also agree that he should NOT kiss fans' asses, ala Kennedy, because he would lose a lot of respect from them.

I didn't vote on the poll because I can't really answer the question. I think he''d be huge either way, and it would be amazing either way.

[.44 Magdalene]

I think alot of people could be the biggest face in WWE right now.


COMPETITION'S A BIT THIN, y'knowhatahmean

[James Steele]

I don't see where you get Orton's "charisma" from. He is boring as fuck, and it is easy to get over when your gimmick is either being carried by Ric Flair and Triple H or punting people in the head and putting them out of action for months. His in-ring work is a lot better, but he is far from potentially being the biggest thing in WWE history.

[.44 Magdalene]

I'm with that, too. Alot of alot of alot of people have informed me about Randy Orton's charisma, and I'm still not real sure what the fuck people are talking about. He gets a pop and/or heat from being in prime situations for such, but he's not exactly a master of doing the stuff for himself.

[James Steele]

His promos are unbearable. I hate having to wait for every word or phrase to come out.

Shawn Michaels............I CAN'T WAIT!.......to show the WORLD........why.............the..........age of ORTON..........is.......................upon us.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Yeah, I too don't get the Randy Orton thing. It's not like his supporters are idiots. The Real HHH likes him, as evidence here, and he's one of the best posters that pop up on these forums. Paul Heyman has called him the most valuable commodity the WWE has, too. I just don't get it.

He's getting better at promos, but they just underwhelm me. He's got ring talent, but he's still learning how to best use it. From a heel perspective, he is less interesting than Chris Jericho and Edge, and from a face perspective, he would be far from the most likable guy in the WWE. I mean, some will find it hard to get behind the guy just because he is an immature dick in real life, by all reports.

Right now, I have to say "No, I do not think Orton has what it takes to successfully and reasonably be the biggest face in the company." That's just my stance on the topic, though.

[Nark Order]

In current WWE? Yes.

In history? He'll have one hell of a time catching up to SCSA and Hogan.

[ClockShot]

With Batista and Cena getting shoved down our throats with their title matches, and Jericho's Save me gimmick starting to get stale, the only top face that's keeping me watching RAW is Orton.

You may not hear the cheers but he's got some backers wherever they are each monday. But they gotta call Ted Jr. and get his ass back so this stable could get to work doing some damage. Only thing that pisses me off about him at the moment is that fucking stalk he does before they RKO. That move gotta come out of nowhere.

[Juan]

I think a double turn (ala Hart/Austin @ WM13) between Orton and Cena would probably the best thing WWE could do.

[The Franchise]

I think he can be a big face but I don't know about the biggest. I can see him reaching the levels of say, Kurt Angle in 2003. He was one of the top faces but not THE biggest face with guys like Austin, Michaels and Goldberg kicking around.

[Kane Knight]

Orton could possibly be a big heel, but I gotta say no to face. He plays a passible heel only in the sense that he doesn't really need to act. He seems to be a natural dick, and that bolsters his shitty acting skills.

I'm pretty sure a good wrestler/actor in his position already would be a top face or heel in the business, rather than just a de facto player in the main event scene. Mag pointed out that he's been in a lot of choice spots, and I think almost anyone else would have been able to turn that into a big deal. Orton's suspensions aside, he still should be more over than he is now, even if he's been depushed like ninety times. You have him carry Flair and HHH's jocks long enough, anyone will get over by the sheer presence.

[Heyman]

Hey guys,

Great responses so far.

Here are a few reasons why I feel that Orton *is* in fact, charismatic:

A) The "look": I know this will sound odd, but I think Orton's 'look' ties a lot into his charisma. The guy flat out LOOKS like an elitist.

B) Orton's ability to cut serious and convincing promo's. Orton might sound a little monotonous, but I also think he's pretty good at cutting serious, meaningful, emotional, realistic, and convincing promo's (i.e. they way he has spoken to 'Priceless' backstage, etc.).

C) Orton's 'smirk'. Orton's 'smirk', to me, screams of cockiness. The way Orton uses that 'smirk' in the ring (i.e. when he senses that his opponent is wounded), combined with how he 'sets up' for the RKO, portrays to me that this guy has charisma.

Orton may not have the ability to be funny...or be witty....but who cares?

When Orton cuts a promo, the guys really comes across as serious, determined, and emotional. There was a reason why the guy got over so huge back in 2004 (before the WWE fucked up his push). Orton can be pretty damn convincing.

"I am.....the legend killer."

"Evolution......has passed you by."

"The Age of Orton......has begun."

"It's destiny."

Bret Hart was often monotonous and non-humorous, but the guy was very charismatic for non-conventional reasons. His promos and actions had a lot of MEANING behind it. Bret Hart did an excellent job of putting MEANING behind whatever he did. In a lot of ways, I think Orton fits this mold.


Randy Orton might be a dick, but so was Austin and The Rock....and we know how they turned out. The fans do NOT like ass-kissers. The fans LOVE the badass that won't take shit from anyone. This is one reason why guys like Austin and The Rock were so loved. It is one reason why someone like Undertaker has stood the test of times in terms of his popularity. Triple H, to a lesser extent, is another example. It's also a reason why guys like Cena, Kurt Angle, Brock Lesnar, Eddie Guerrero, etc. ultimately 'lost their steam' as fan favorites.

Inadvertently or not, I think the WWE may be on to something with Orton. I think it was awesome how an "injured" Orton would get in the face of other wrestlers (fellow heels at time) and talk shit to them in front of their face.

Back in 04' when Orton was over huge (after he beat Benoit), the WWE made the mistake of turning him face too soon. Even worse, they altered his personna a LOT (which resulted in the fans turning on him). This time around however, I don't think that will happen.

[Heyman]

In current WWE? Yes.

In history? He'll have one hell of a time catching up to SCSA and Hogan.

Hey Narc,

I agree.

Thank you also for clarifying. I should have been more specific in my original post.

[Funky Fly]

He's better off as a heel. His face run was garbage because it's not who he is. Randy Orton the man is a huge asshole, so Randy Orton the character is a lot more believable as a huge asshole too.

[Heyman]

He's better off as a heel. His face run was garbage because it's not who he is. Randy Orton the man is a huge asshole, so Randy Orton the character is a lot more believable as a huge asshole too.

Let me ask you this - do you think it's possible for a 'huge asshole' to be accepted as a face?

Hell - Steve Austin beat the living the tar out of Debra McMichael in real life. During Austin's run as a face, Austin was also a stubborn asshole for the most part. What made Austin's character so successful (unlike Orton's face run from 04'), was the fact that the WWE kept Austin's character constant....and Austin could still act like "his real self." At the same time, the WWE accentuated Austin's positive qualities (i.e. perseverence, never giving up, being exciting/unpredictable, never selling out, etc.).

Orton, perhaps in real life, doesn't give a fuck about anyone. If he has a problem with you, he'll tell you to your face. Orton is driven as hell to be the best, and will do almost whatever it takes.

With this in mind, I truly believe that a "face" Orton (with his natural 'assholish self') can still "be himself" and can still be wildly successful as a face.

[KingofOldSchool]

He's better off as a heel. His face run was garbage because it's not who he is. Randy Orton the man is a huge asshole, so Randy Orton the character is a lot more believable as a huge asshole too.

His face run sucked because they completely changed what got him over in the first place.

[Funky Fly]

Let me ask you this - do you think it's possible for a 'huge asshole' to be accepted as a face?

Hell - Steve Austin beat the living the tar out of Debra McMichael in real life. During Austin's run as a face, Austin was also a stubborn asshole for the most part. What made Austin's character so successful (unlike Orton's face run from 04'), was the fact that the WWE kept Austin's character constant....and Austin could still act like "his real self." At the same time, the WWE accentuated Austin's positive qualities (i.e. perseverence, never giving up, being exciting/unpredictable, never selling out, etc.).

Orton, perhaps in real life, doesn't give a fuck about anyone. If he has a problem with you, he'll tell you to your face. Orton is driven as hell to be the best, and will do almost whatever it takes.

With this in mind, I truly believe that a "face" Orton (with his natural 'assholish self') can still "be himself" and can still be wildly successful as a face.

Austin was a likeable asshole. Orton is an "I really want to see that guy get his teeth kicked in" kind of asshole, you asshole. :)

[Funky Fly]

Anyway, to answer your question more directly, I don't think he'd be the biggest face, but just about anyone can be a passable face.

[Kane Knight]

Austin wasn't his "real self" on TV, either.

[Heyman]

His face run sucked because they completely changed what got him over in the first place.

Exactly.

Orton was waaay the fuck over between Wrestlemania 20 and Summerslam 2004. This CANNOT be ignored. Once the WWE (idiotically) turned Orton face however (the day after he beat Benoit), they altered his personality quite significantly.

Yes - Orton has had many backstage behavioral problems since that time, but I also feel like he's maturing....and can now carry the ball for this company.

Orton is getting the pops, and gets great reactions when he comes out.

I think now, more than ever, is the right time to push Orton to the moon.

As long as Orton never kisses the fans' ass, and continues to impress people by getting key victories, the fans will love him.

[Heyman]

I'll make a few more comments:

-Triple H and Batista are both (allegedly) assholes in real life but have still been successful as faces on TV. What about Hull Hogan?

It's about positioning:

Fans also have an extremely short memory. Rikishi once drove over Stone Cold Steve Austin but went back to the 'face/dance' routine like 5 months later. Heck - look at some of the shit that Triple H has done "storyline wise."

Bottom line? Orton could be an asshole, but he could also be positioned as a guy that isn't afraid of challenges, isn't afraid of anyone, and will never kiss anyone's ass.

As far as being a "passable" face is concerned, it's all relative. Many could argue that Cena, Batista, and Triple H are "passable" faces in today's WWE. Surely - Orton can be as big (or bigger) than those guys right?

[Funky Fly]

He's not likeable, tho. He should stick to being a permanent heel.

[Kane Knight]

He's not likeable, tho. He should stick to being a permanent heel.

I think people wanted to like him, but they couldn't. Really.

[Juan]

I dunno, it's not that impossible. The guy gets a great reaction from the crowd every week.

[KYR]

Some wrestlers were just born to be heels for life.

Guys like DiBiase (Sr), Honky Tonk Man, Rick Rude, Bundy, Test, Scott Steiner just can't/couldn't make it as faces.

I consider Orton in this category (just like his father). Leave him as a heel.

[St. Jimmy]

I love orton.

[Juan]

I love orton.

:y:

[#BROKEN Hasney]

His promos are unbearable. I hate having to wait for every word or phrase to come out.

Shawn Michaels............I CAN'T WAIT!.......to show the WORLD........why.............the..........age of ORTON..........is.......................upon us.

Stop mocking his promo rest-pauses :(

[CSL]

Some wrestlers were just born to be heels for life.

Guys like DiBiase (Sr), Honky Tonk Man, Rick Rude, Bundy, Test, Scott Steiner just can't/couldn't make it as faces.

I consider Orton in this category (just like his father). Leave him as a heel.

I disagree. I haven't read through this thread so I don't know if it's been said but I see Orton as a Rock type face without the catchphrases. He'd basically just be the same as he is as a heel except he'd be fighting with the blue eyes instead of against them and people will love him 'cause he'd be a 'badass'

[The Franchise]

I've always been a huge Orton mark, but I have a tough time seeing him as the top face. :(

[Mr. Nerfect]

I'll make a few more comments:

-Triple H and Batista are both (allegedly) assholes in real life but have still been successful as faces on TV. What about Hull Hogan?

It's about positioning:

Fans also have an extremely short memory. Rikishi once drove over Stone Cold Steve Austin but went back to the 'face/dance' routine like 5 months later. Heck - look at some of the shit that Triple H has done "storyline wise."

Bottom line? Orton could be an asshole, but he could also be positioned as a guy that isn't afraid of challenges, isn't afraid of anyone, and will never kiss anyone's ass.

As far as being a "passable" face is concerned, it's all relative. Many could argue that Cena, Batista, and Triple H are "passable" faces in today's WWE. Surely - Orton can be as big (or bigger) than those guys right?

Ironically, I think Triple H and Batista would both greatly benefit from heel turns, at the moment. :p

The problem with what you've suggested with Orton, Heyman, is that is nearly exactly what the WWE was sort of trying to convey with him in 2004. He's a lot more "bad ass" now, but I just cannot buy Orton as the threatening type. And if I do, it makes me dislike him, not like him.

His natural energy is channelled towards a heel alignment, I think. He might have worked as a face if they built to his turn slower in 2004, and played off the fact he was just plain better than everyone else, but now his "elite" status seems far more forced than him naturally rising through the ranks early.

It seemed the fans somewhat discovered Orton themselves. They didn't, I'm sure there were always high hopes for Orton since they stuck him with Triple H and Ric Flair, but they were definitely aided along and moved forward by the fans. Unless that happens again, I don't think the WWE should risk turning Orton face. If the fans do it against whoever Orton faces, then by all means go with it; but until then, I wouldn't tweak Orton too much, or push him any harder.

[Londoner]

No,his promos sound shit, he isnt anywhere near the best wrestler. So no,no potential at all.

[Heyman]

The problem with what you've suggested with Orton, Heyman, is that is nearly exactly what the WWE was sort of trying to convey with him in 2004.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO siree bob.

I'll have to strongly disagree here.

The MAIN reason why Orton's face turn flopped in 2004, was because the WWE altered Orton's character. They tried to make Orton into a pussified "lady's man" (remember how he was dating Kiebler there for awhile). After Summerslam 04', they basically made Orton into a huge kiss ass. In some of his backstage promos, the WWE (in their "genius") tried to get Orton to act like The Rock a little bit.

All of a sudden, Orton started caring what the fans thought....and what his fellow wrestlers thought (remember his little gay ass penis-on-penis love affair with the likes of Jericho, Benoit, and Shelton Benjamin?).


The Orton that *I* am talking about in 2008, would be the type of face that wouldn't give a fuck about anyone. He'd be very much like Austin and Undertaker in his approach. He'd do whatever the heck he wanted to, wouldn't kiss anyone's ass, and the fans would love him for it.

Orton would also be a badass leader that would fire up Team Legacy with motivational speeches.

That is how *I* would envision Orton as a top-tier face.

[screech]

The Orton that *I* am talking about in 2008, would be the type of face that wouldn't give a fuck about anyone. He'd be very much like Austin and Undertaker in his approach. He'd do whatever the heck he wanted to, wouldn't kiss anyone's ass, and the fans would love him for it.

Orton would also be a badass leader that would fire up Team Legacy with motivational speeches.

That is how *I* would envision Orton as a top-tier face.

I agree with this completely. If he starts to kiss the fans' asses, he'll lose steam. As you (or someone else) said, WWE doesn't push "goofy" characters (or kiss asses for that matter) to main event status. He needs to be the type of face, and character in general, that doesn't give a shit about anyone. People would eat that shit right out of his hands.

On a side note, The Legacy is going to be fucking sweet. :y: