Grand Slam Champions [Archive]

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Hornicane

03-11-2009, 02:34 AM

Now that JBL has won the IC title and become the 8th Grand Slam Champion, the only currently contracted performers that could accomplish this are Christian, Matt Hardy and Regal. I'd love to see either of these guys win a world title, but is it gonna happen, or will the number stand at 8?

Jeritron

03-11-2009, 02:36 AM

Matt Hardy could conceivably win the IC title and World Title before his time is up. He has a good shot at getting a world title run at some point down the line, and before or after that he will probably be utilized in an uppermidcard capacity, which could lead to the IC title.
He just needs to happen to be on the show that features that belt, and he will more than likely win it.

Jeritron

03-11-2009, 02:37 AM

I don't think Regal will. He may have last year if he didn't test positive right before what seemed like a big main event push.

Christian, on the other hand, has a very good shot.

Hornicane

03-11-2009, 02:37 AM

Forgot Matt held the Euro title. :-\

Hornicane

03-11-2009, 02:41 AM

I'm hoping Christian does, and could see it happening, but I wouldn't be surprised if he gets a bit of a push, then shuffled into the midcard and underutilized for goddamn ever. This has a tendancy to happen. I do agree with the assessment on Matt and Regal, which is a shame.

Jeritron

03-11-2009, 02:47 AM

It's not really a shame. I'm suggesting Matt will likely win a world title. That's an enourmous accomplishment for him.
There's nothing wrong with him being elevated for a short lived or transitional title reign, and then worked back into the uppermidcard. Not everyone can get the top spot and hold onto it for their whole career. Only a handful of guys a decade do that.

Christian will get his shot I think. I think the key to things is patience. Look at this year. Jeff Hardy actually scored a title win. Jericho won the world title again...twice. Neither seemed likely.

I think if someone is consistently over, and consistently performs well there is always hope. The company needs new stars and champions to step up at certain times. There are times where the roster/main event scene is crowded, and other times when it is thinned by injuries or retirements.
Look at JBL. RVD too. And Eddie. Booker T even got back to the top, and so did Edge.

I think Christian would have been elevated and won a world title in WWE by now if he hadn't lost patience and left.
And I still think he will

Hornicane

03-11-2009, 02:59 AM

I meant a shame that Regal blew his shot at that apparent push. I'd love to see him as a top heel. I do think Matt will get a proper world title at some point.

Jeritron

03-11-2009, 03:00 AM

Yea, that is a shame. I just don't see them building him back up again.

Cuzziebro

03-11-2009, 05:13 AM

Just for clarification purposes, who else is a grand slam champion? JBL? Edge? Cena? HHH? HBK? Taker? Help me out here.

CSL

03-11-2009, 05:19 AM

Michaels, Trips, Jeff, Eddie, Edge, Jericho, RVD and Angle. Don't really know about Eddie or Angle because they only ever held the Smackdown tag belts but I assume it would stand

Cuzziebro

03-11-2009, 05:20 AM

Cheers that would make sense.

The Mackem

03-11-2009, 05:28 AM

The way the titles have been unified etc. it's hard to keep a clear definition. The European is unified with the Intercontinental technically, isn't it? Can get a bit confusing at times.

Volare

03-11-2009, 05:30 AM

Michaels, Trips, Jeff, Eddie, Edge, Jericho, RVD and Angle. Don't really know about Eddie or Angle because they only ever held the Smackdown tag belts but I assume it would stand

What about Punk? He won the WHC, was tag champs with Kofi, and just had the IC title.

Juan

03-11-2009, 05:32 AM

Yeah, originally the IC title was unified with the European title and then the Hardcore title. The IC title was then unified with the World Heavyweight Title before it was brought back again.

Nicky Fives

03-11-2009, 07:40 AM

Regal might win the title for a short period of time on his final European Tour in Blackpool.... It would get a huge pop......Vince might reward him with the Title on his final days with the company, even if fhe holds it for only a few days.....its possible, but very unlikely

Hornicane

03-11-2009, 10:26 AM

Michaels, Trips, Jeff, Eddie, Edge, Jericho, RVD and Angle. Don't really know about Eddie or Angle because they only ever held the Smackdown tag belts but I assume it would stand

Edge never had the European title. Also, WWE has referred to Angle as a former Grand Slam champion, so it would be safe to say the WWE tag titles count as legit tag titles.

The Mackem

03-11-2009, 11:44 AM

Switch Edge for JBL. Order is HBK, Triple H, Jericho, Angle, Eddie, RVD, Jeff, JBL.

BigDaddyCool

03-11-2009, 11:49 AM

Destor doesn't believe in the Grand Slam.

Supreme Olajuwon

03-11-2009, 11:51 AM

For what it's worth Mark Henry and Hurricane Helms were both European Champion so they're still in the running.

BigDaddyCool

03-11-2009, 11:53 AM

Also, Jeff Hardy, Eddie, JBL, and Shawn Micheals were the only 4 of the 8 to win tag team titles as a legit team instead of random mainevent tag team version whatever. I consider Shawn Micheals and Deisel a legit tag team.

BigDaddyCool

03-11-2009, 11:55 AM

For what it's worth Mark Henry and Hurricane Helms were both European Champion so they're still in the running.

Mark is in it as a long shot. He averages a title once every 6 and a half years.

Hornicane

03-11-2009, 03:03 PM

For what it's worth Mark Henry and Hurricane Helms were both European Champion so they're still in the running.

If Hurricane ever wins a world title I would go on a killing spree using, as my only weapon, the permanent erection I'll have developed.

That being said, I can't ever see that happening.

Unlikely as it is, if they decided to state that the ECW title is a legit world title and henceforth a suitable alternative to the real world titles, Mark Henry would then be pretty likely.

Jeritron

03-11-2009, 04:20 PM

Shawn Michaels and Diesel were no more of a legit team than the Two Man Power Trip (with HHH). Just saying
I think both were legit though.

BigDaddyCool

03-11-2009, 05:12 PM

Shawn Michaels and Diesel were no more of a legit team than the Two Man Power Trip (with HHH). Just saying
I think both were legit though.

Diesel debuted as Shawn Micheal's body guard. Them being a tag team was natural. HHH and Austin were random mainevent tag team # 356.

Mooияakeя™

03-11-2009, 05:14 PM

So with the €uro title scrapped, is there no chance of getting GRAND SLAM champs now? I mean, if it's never going to come back, ever, surely someone who has done: tag (both), wc (both), ic, us and ecw will be like a modern version of a Grand Slam? Otherwise, any future legends wont have a chance in hell.

Jeritron

03-11-2009, 05:15 PM

They were a legitimate stable and team though. They were a unit, and they had a name. They had actual tag fueds, and weren't just an unlikely alliance to advance existing fueds/storylines. They weren't random tag team like Austin/Michaels were, or Cena/Batista.

Xero

03-11-2009, 05:16 PM

We've gone over that.

Triple Crown doesn't count......

Mr. Nerfect

03-13-2009, 10:41 PM

Alright, I just looked up Wikipedia (which is not the best source, I know), but that argues that in 2001 the WWE argued that the Hardcore Championship could be substituted for the European Championship in the Grand Slam. I never read that. Does anyone know if it is true?

The WWE Tag Team Championship is also a legitimate substitute for the World Tag Team Championship, but the US Title does not count towards a Grand Slam, nor does the ECW Championship. If I were to make up a reason for this, could it be because their histories extend back to other promotions?

Wikipedia lists the WWE Grand Slam Champions as Shawn Michaels, Triple H, Kane, Chris Jericho, Kurt Angle, Eddie Guerrero, Rob Van Dam, Booker T, Jeff Hardy and John Bradshaw Layfield. Kane, Kurt Angle, Eddie Guerrero and Booker T are questionable, as they have all held substitute components of the Grand Slam. Especially Booker T, who held neither the European Championship or WWE Championship, but the Hardcore and World Heavyweight Titles.

This same source indicates that the following wrestlers can win the Grand Slam with one title victory: Big Show (needs to win IC Title), Christian (needs to win WWE World Title), Goldust (needs to win WWE World Title), The Undertaker (needs to win IC Title), William Regal (needs to win WWE World Title).

The "true" Grand Slam Champions, by the original distinction, are Shawn Michaels, Triple H, Chris Jericho, Rob Van Dam, Jeff Hardy and John Bradshaw Layfield. Oddly enough, all of those wrestlers save for Jeff Hardy can be symbolised by three characters: HBK, HHH, Y2J, RVD and JBL.

Mr. Nerfect

03-13-2009, 10:46 PM

Truthfully, I think the definition of "Grand Slam Champion" needs to change. Grand Slam often does refer to four of the biggest titles you can win in a field, but when there are parallels and shadows to each, it becomes controversial.

The Grand Slam should represent only titles currently active. There are currently seven championships that are open to every single competitor in the WWE. These are the WWE Championship, World Heavyweight Championship, ECW Championship, Intercontinental Championship, United States Championship, World Tag Team Championship and WWE Tag Team Championship, I propose that the Grand Slam consists of wrestlers who have achieved all seven of those title victories.

This, however, means that nobody is a Grand Slam Champion. Edge only needs to win the ECW Title to achieve this, though. Another option is that you take titles that the WWE considers to equate perfectly with each other (the WWE Championship and World Heavyweight Championship, for example), and only require a GSC to win one of them, with the other victory being considered redundant (which I think is a bit silly). This would probably mean the Grand Slam Champion would still only have to win four titles: WWE or World Title, ECW Title, IC or US Title and WWE or World Tag Team Title. If you took this method, then Big Show, Kane and CM Punk would actually qualify as Grand Slam Champions, which seems a little odd.

Destor

03-14-2009, 01:45 AM

Mr. Nerfect

03-14-2009, 05:38 AM

Grand slam isn't possible do to the lack of a fourth tier title.

WHW = WWE
IC = US
WWE Tag = World Tag
ECW?

So I guess if you count the ECW title as fourth tier then you can be Grand slam...so I guess by that logic Punk is grandslam...

Yeah, truthfully, that's what I'd go by. Rob Van Dam, Big Show, Kane and CM Punk are the only guys that I can think of who would qualify as Grand Slam Champions under these requirements.

CSL

03-14-2009, 10:22 AM

Van Dam fulfils the 'proper' requirements

thedamndest

03-14-2009, 02:16 PM

I would think the US title would be kayfabe closer to the European title than the ECW title is. For starters, the ECW title is a world title, so it's automatically higher than the IC belt. The US and IC belt tend to fluctuate in prestige depending on how they are booked, but due to the long-term history of the IC belt, I would go ahead and make the US belt the new Euro and have the ECW belt something that exists outside of this new Grand Slam. It sounds "cleaner" to say WWE/World title, IC, US, Tag, rather than throwing the ECW title in there as your lowest ranking belt in the Grand Slam. Arguably, it's not about "rank" and just about titles captured, but if that's the case then why not just change it so you have to capture every belt?

Gertner

03-14-2009, 02:41 PM

Isn't Big Show the only guy to hold the WWE Titles, WCW Title and ECW Title?

Savio

03-14-2009, 03:09 PM

Isn't Big Show the only guy to hold the WWE Titles, WCW Title and ECW Title?Yeah

Mr. Nerfect

03-14-2009, 08:49 PM

Isn't Big Show the only guy to hold the WWE Titles, WCW Title and ECW Title?

He most certainly is.

I would think the US title would be kayfabe closer to the European title than the ECW title is. For starters, the ECW title is a world title, so it's automatically higher than the IC belt. The US and IC belt tend to fluctuate in prestige depending on how they are booked, but due to the long-term history of the IC belt, I would go ahead and make the US belt the new Euro and have the ECW belt something that exists outside of this new Grand Slam. It sounds "cleaner" to say WWE/World title, IC, US, Tag, rather than throwing the ECW title in there as your lowest ranking belt in the Grand Slam. Arguably, it's not about "rank" and just about titles captured, but if that's the case then why not just change it so you have to capture every belt?

I was thinking about this just the other day, actually. I mean, if you just look at the names and kayfabe representations of the championships: World Heavyweight (the entire world), WWE (the entire company), ECW (the entire ECW brand), Intercontinental (North American, South America, Europe and Hardcore culture), United States (the United States of America), World Tag Team Champion (the entire world), WWE Tag Team (the entire company), Women's (all the women in the world), Divas (all the women in the company).

I know that's a bit of a mess, but to me that puts the World Heavyweight Championship and the WWE Championship at a bit of a stand-still. The World Heavyweight sounds better, because it represents the world, but the WWE represents everything sanctioned within the company. It's a paradox that keeps things even.

The ECW Championship, logically, would operate at about 20% strength to those two championships. It represents one-fifth of WWE programming, but it also goes back to representing an entire company with about fifteen years of history.

When comparing the IC Title and US Title, which are usually considered about equal (although I cannot remember a single incident where the US Champion has ever defeated the IC Champion, besides when Edge won the IC Title as US Champion, and then the US Champion was considered "unified" with it, but was pretty much never mentioned again, giving the IC belt the last laugh), I don't see how the US Title can logically be portrayed as being on the same level geographically as a belt not only representing the United States, but Canada, Mexico, South America and Europe.

I agree that the true Grand Slam Champion in this day and age should win every single championship. So Edge would be closest to achieving this. It'd be a great way to actually give him Hall of Famer-type credibility if/when he does do this.

TNA has it a bit easier. They have the TNA World Heavyweight Title, Legends Title, X-Division Title and Tag Team Titles.

Savio

03-14-2009, 08:55 PM

Is there anyone left on the roster that could end up holding the WWE, ECW and WCW title at one time?

Jeritron

03-14-2009, 09:04 PM

Jericho. If he wins the ECW title at any point he accomplishes that.
Technically HHH is eligible. He just needs to win the ECW title, but that's not going to happen.

Angle nearly did. Pretty sure he was going to win the ECW soon if he hadn't left. He's gone now though, and the chances are that if he ever returns he won't be winning the ECW title.
I think Benoit nearly did too. He was more than likely winning that night, but we all know what happened there.

Savio

03-14-2009, 10:46 PM

Fox

03-15-2009, 04:19 AM

Juan

03-15-2009, 04:27 AM

HHH won the WCW title?

I dunno, technically I guess, since the Undisputed title was the WWE + WCW title.

Hornicane

03-15-2009, 02:21 PM

HHH won the WCW title?

WWE acknowledges that the World Heavyweight Title is the old WCW Championship. And also, it was still two separate belts when Trips won the WWE and WCW titles from Jericho to become Undisputed Champion, so I'd say he has.

Juan

03-15-2009, 04:36 PM

WWE acknowledges that the World Heavyweight Title is the old WCW Championship.

I don't think they do...

Xero

03-15-2009, 04:43 PM

They don't. It's a separate title and the WCW title is still absorbed in the WWE Championship.

Also, Jericho with both belts was the Undisputed champion, the single belt Triple H got just consolidated them. Triple H won the Undisputed/WWF Championship, not both titles.

Hornicane

03-15-2009, 04:52 PM

I don't think they do...

"The World Heavyweight Championship that has recently been carried by such greats as Batista and Triple H got its start in WWE back in 2002. But its prestigious lineage can actually be traced back all the way to George Hackenschmidt and 1904. For years, it was known as the NWA Championship; then when WCW pulled out of the NWA in the early 1990s, Ric Flair was recognized as the first-ever WCW Champion."

http://www.wwe.com/inside/titlehistory/wcwchampionship/

Xero

03-15-2009, 04:57 PM

Juan

03-15-2009, 05:03 PM

"The World Heavyweight Championship that has recently been carried by such greats as Batista and Triple H got its start in WWE back in 2002. But its prestigious lineage can actually be traced back all the way to George Hackenschmidt and 1904. For years, it was known as the NWA Championship; then when WCW pulled out of the NWA in the early 1990s, Ric Flair was recognized as the first-ever WCW Champion."

http://www.wwe.com/inside/titlehistory/wcwchampionship/

I've read that before, but I figured since the list started with Triple H, that even though it carries the WCW lineage, that it's not actually the same belt.

Hornicane

03-15-2009, 05:03 PM

That's fucked up, because the title ends with Jericho on that list. If they're going to do that, the ECW title should be separate from the Extreme Championship Wrestling title.

They clearly consider it a separate title, otherwise it would be combined.

Oh they, do, I was just pointing out that they recognize that it was at some point the same title. Winning the WHW title doesn't count as winning the WCW tite which didn't count as winning the NWA title.

I just figured that since Jericho won both belts to become undisputed champion and they unified them into one title after Trips won them that that would count as a WWE and WCW title win like it did for Jericho, but apparently I figured wrong.

Xero

03-15-2009, 05:06 PM

Hornicane

03-15-2009, 05:12 PM

Yeah. It seems like after unifying the titles that the WWE title would have the WCW lineage, but the history says the WHW. It makes more sense witht he WWE title though, since they were unified. They should have just coughed up some dough and made the new WHW title a completely new belt.

Gertner

03-15-2009, 05:34 PM

"The World Heavyweight Championship that has recently been carried by such greats as Batista and Triple H got its start in WWE back in 2002. But its prestigious lineage can actually be traced back all the way to George Hackenschmidt and 1904. For years, it was known as the NWA Championship; then when WCW pulled out of the NWA in the early 1990s, Ric Flair was recognized as the first-ever WCW Champion."

http://www.wwe.com/inside/titlehistory/wcwchampionship/

That's a myth. the NWA-WCW liniage(sp?) starts at 1948 I believe.

Jeritron

03-15-2009, 05:38 PM

I was referring to HHH winning the WCW at WM18. That's just how I took it, since both belts were still carried. I figured at the time it still counted as the WCW championship, since physically the belt was still being used and changed hands. I know they were united, but I thought that was just because they were on the same person at the time.
I didn't really consider them combined officially until they became one actual belt.

I don't consider the current WWE World Heavyweight (Big Gold) belt as counting as the WCW championship. For instance, I don't think it's correct to call Batista and Khali "former WCW champions." So that's not what I meant.

But, I do think that it should be considered in the same title history/lineage. The only thing that has changed is promotions it is active under.

Xero

03-15-2009, 05:41 PM

I was referring to HHH winning the WCW at WM18. That's just how I took it, since both belts were still carried. I know they were united, but I thought that was just because they were on the same person at the time.
I didn't really consider them combined officially until they became one actual belt.

Jericho never defended either one alone, meaning that them being separate titles don't make much sense.

But having both of them gave a hell of a visual.

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g122/sandman3g/Jericho_Undisputed.jpg

Hornicane

03-15-2009, 06:02 PM

Mr. Nerfect

03-16-2009, 12:20 AM

WWE acknowledges that the World Heavyweight Title is the old WCW Championship. And also, it was still two separate belts when Trips won the WWE and WCW titles from Jericho to become Undisputed Champion, so I'd say he has.

No, they don't. Plus, the Undisputed Championship was not the WWE + WCW Title after Jericho won it, that is just how it was physically represented. Jericho was the last WCW Champion, then he became the WWE Champion.

Xero

03-16-2009, 12:24 AM

So what Noid, did you miss the following conversation? That was all covered and/or denounced.

Mr. Nerfect

03-16-2009, 12:29 AM

I think the biggest thing we all forget is that the WCW title was called the World Heavyweight Championship for a bit after the Invasion angle and when Jericho won it. Back then it definitely held the WCW lineage.

I think it makes sense to look at it like this: The WCW title was absorbed into the WWE Championship when Jericho won it. The WCW lineage stops there. When Bischoff brought it back, it WAS the same title, but the WCW lineage stayed with the WWE championship.

My head hurts.

I believe the WCW Title was actually called the "World Championship" when the WWE defeated The Alliance at Survivor Series. I don't remember "Heavyweight" ever being in there.

But you are basically right in this thread. Personally, I thought of the Undisputed Championship as a completely new title when Chris Jericho combined the WWE Title and WCW Title together at the original Vengeance PPV, and that it was just represented by two title belts. Then Triple H turned it into one, and I was like "OK, cool."

When Brock Lesnar took the belt to SmackDown!, and they started calling it the "WWE Championship," I believe that's where they pretty much ignored the WCW Title history in the belt. It was still represented by the same piece of gold as the Undisputed Championship was, but it was no longer called "Undisputed."

Eric Bischoff created a new championship to award to Triple H on RAW, and my theory is that seeing as the WCW Title was imbedded into the WCW Title, and some sort of contract said that it couldn't be revived, he just took the old physical belt that represented the WCW Title, and created the "World Heavyweight Championship" to stir up feelings of the old days.

The World Heavyweight Title is only related to the WCW Title by how they are physically displayed. If the belt is a house, then the WCW Title history was its past residents, and before it was the NWA Title history. Since 2002, the World Heavyweight Championship lineage has been living there.

Mr. Nerfect

03-16-2009, 12:30 AM

So what Noid, did you miss the following conversation? That was all covered and/or denounced.

I know, I was just adding further knowledge into the situation.