Some of TNAs stuff is pretty r efreshing in comparison to WWE, tbh. I'm not completely sold but I mean, the "loltna" days are probably over soon. Yeah, we give WWE a little tough love in this episode but we have some good things to say about the product as well. The Shield stuff and rhe Daniel Bryan stuff is on fire lately. The Curtis Axel thing puts a bad taste in my mouth at the moment, but its not like we didn't know they were going to try to ruin him before he even got a chance.

Didn't listen to the podcast but I hope you guys don't think you can go from legit Jobber to legit Main Eventer that fast.

If I remember correctly last PC guys you were saying Curtis should have got the clean win over Cena.

Well, yeah. You kind of can. Or at least you can make people care. Think back to when Carlito made his debut and beat John Cena on his first night. That created buzz righr off the bat and made you be like "whoa, who is this fuck?" If Curtis Axel had come in and legit bat Triple H, it would've set the wrestling world on fire. Trips couldve still had his headache to save face.

I guess my biggest gripe about this is why do you go through all the trouble to give this guy prime TV spots and give him Heyman as a promo man if you don't want him to actually beat anybody. They protect people far too much. If you want the guy to be a big deal, make him a big deal. There is no way around having a guy beat top competition if you want him to be big. There just isn't. I wish there was, but there isn't.

Well he's beating Sin Cara on Smackdown, their biggest problem is that Heels hold all the secondary titles. If Dean loses the US title or if Miz wins the IC title that should be the next target for Axel. He can be built up, he's holding his own with Cena, that a pretty good rub right there. And you are right they should have played up that he beat HHH.

Agree to disagree then.

Well, they are making a point to say this guy is the next big deal and they are putting him in main events. If they want us to take him as a main eventer, he needs to beat main eventers. Thats my take. I just hate how they're always so afraid to make guys a big deal but they want you to treat them like a big deal anyway. Its frustrating.

He doesn't need a title, he needs a legitimate win. Beating Sin Cara means virtually nothing while trying to set him up as a top guy -- kind of like two count-outs that could have been real victories.

No. Tell me WHY you disagree.

Its to early for a main event spot for him right now, the general fan isn't buying it, perhaps after a lengthy IC title run that opportunity can open.

Yeah, maybe an IC title reign would do. I'm just saying, if he isn't ready, then he shouldn't be main eventing and being pushed as the second coming of Mr. Perfect. They are sending us the message of "hey, you need to care about this guy right now," but booking is telling us another story.

Beating Sin Cara is a step up from jobbing on SMS, it's a good pace for him, He shouldn't be rocketed to the top where he's going to be lost in the shuffle.

If he beat Cena clean I would have said "What? why?" and then I would have hoped they threw out the 3 Stages of hell scenario and made it a Triple threat match where he goes toe to to with Cena and Ryback and comes really close to winning. But that would be stupid to make such a left turn right there.

Why damage your Payback main event by making Cena lose to Axel? Why SHOULD Axel beat him cleanly, there is no reason to.

Remember when Ryback was hot-shotted to the main event lost and kept losing against Punk because Punk had to hold the title until atleast the Rumble? While he was losing by dirty means it still tarnished his rep to the point where he loses his WM match and one could predict he is on his way down the card now.

From what I've seen only Heyman is giving that message. Heyman is trying to prove to everyone that he is legit, no one else has bought it yet, but Axel hasn't lost yet so he's still moving forward.

Well, a clean victory would probably do that. But if Ryback drove an ambulance out and Axel capitalized and got the win, that doesn't hurt anything. I see what you're saying though.

Well, he's been in the main event on every RAW since he's debuted and they recap all of his segments like 7000 times. I think I can safely assume that they want him to be a big deal. I dunno, maybe I'm wrong. Triple H apparently made the call to bring him in cause he's thinks he's the next "guy." It doesn't make sense to me that he'd be ready to main event shows but not ready to win main events. If he's "the guy" that you are giving your PRIME tv real estate, then he's gotta be worth investing in. There is no way around not beatinf main eventers if he is to be taken as a big deal.

Well for they past 3 weeks he's been used to Get HHH's attention off Lesnar and then let Ryback get the upperhand on Cena two times to put Ryback a bit over. It's to early to tell what they really want to do with him.

I think just going off the fact that he's being managed by Paul Heyman, who manages the other two biggest stars in the company, we can probably assume that he's supposed to be a big deal. Not to mention that he's in the main event every week. But what do I know? I could be wrong.

He's not the new badass on the street though he's the new "Blue Chipper" as JR used to say. No one is running in fear from him because they remember his past, he is building himself up now.

His 2 matches with Cena was more about Ryback getting one up on Cena. It also built up Axel a bit too because not he can say that he beat Cena twice.

Tangent: I'd like to see Bryan beat Ryback at the PPV after Payback then have Big E Finish him off at Summer Slam.

That's not a clean win.

Also, what are they protecting by not having him get wins over the main eventers? Would Triple H or John Cena lose any credibility whatsoever by putting Axel over? I don't think os. John Cena lost probably most of his PPV matches last year and was bested by Punk on several occasions. He is no worse off for it. Now, if they brought him in as a midcard guy I could understand all of this but he's been thrusted into the main event immediately. He's either at that level or he isn't. The way they are booking this is just very confusing.

I just don't think Axel should beat Cena clean.

Posts 34-36 pretty much sum up that AL and I are arguing over miscommunication.

What is your definition of clean? If Ryback cause a distraction and Curt capitalizes then Cena loses nothing. If Triple H's head explodes and Curt capitalizes then Triple H loses nothing. These count out victories just don't mean anything.

My definition of a clean victory would be No distractions, no interference, no cheating, etc. A pure victory where no rules are broken.

Curtis could have beat HHH by pinfall but I think it was more dramatic that HHH just could not continue the match. I still think HHH should not have been able to continue after Axel pulled off a move on the outside, like whipping him into the ring post.

I never said it would be worse, I just said that wouldn't be clean.