Favourites that you soured on...
 

So for this week's podcast, we're looking at wrestlers that you once held in high regard but soured on over time - whether something about their act changed, whether they regressed as performers, or whether you feel you started to see through them and they weren't actually as good as you once thought.

If you could name one wrestler or act that sums this up for you throughout history, who would you pick and WHY?

As always, the best contributions will be read on the show and you'll be credited accordingly. So who fell from grace in your eyes?

EDIT - Our show discussing Favourites That You Soured On, featuring many of your contributions, is now online and available to listen to at the following link: http://squaredcirclegazette.podbean....f_The_Rose.mp3

If you would have asked me this question in January, I'd have definitely said Chris Jericho. The guy is probably my favorite wrestler of all time but after his surprise return in the 2013 Rumble and his subsequent loss to Fandango at WrestleMania 29, I started to totally lose interest in him. He then lost to Ryback and Curtis Axel before leaving again.

He was clearly coming back time and again to put other guys over - and while that is certainly understandable, it was also very transparent and therefore made it hard to invest in any of his programs. Couple that with his face promos becoming increasingly cringe-worthy and him coming across like an unhip dad, and I just really had no interest in seeing him return ever again because it was beginning to even sour the way I viewed his earlier work.

Thankfully, now that he's been back for a full year and was given another heel run he's been immensely entertaining. You know he's still going to be on the losing end of most feuds but it doesn't seem as blatant any more now that he's a weekly act and is great at maximizing his screen time.

So yeah...I guess to answer the question for NOW - Rob Van Dam springs to mind. I was a huge fan of his right through his first WWE run which went through 2007. But when I watched him in TNA and his eventual WWE return, I realized that he'd literally not evolved whatsoever in 15 years.

Watching back his earlier stuff when I liked him, it's just so bland and it was the same stuff in every match. Seen one RVD match, seen them all. I think this just goes to show that as a younger fan I really didn't notice how repetitive some of the stuff I was watching was.

Umdertaker his career should've been over after the end of an era match, but noooooooooooo they had to keep dragging him out

Hulk Hogan - In the early years I loved watching him but as time rolled on i noticed that he rarely put anyone over unless it helped his own image and the people he faced usually went to the lower midcard or disappeared entirely. Once he went to Wcw and the whole show more or less revolved around him I just couldn't stand him. Once the Nwo hit I turned the channel.

Got to be Finn Balor, was a big fan of his in NJPW and NXT but they made him a freakshow on Raw. I still like the guy I just hope they take it easy on the Demon King shit once he returns. Needs to just be paired with Gallows and Anderson in my opinion.

We had a very similar thread to this here not too long ago. You may be able to pluck some good feedback from it.

http://tpwwforums.com/showthread.php?t=132316

Soured on Chris Benoit after he murdered his family

As a native of Cincinnati myself, it really pains me to say this, but...

Dean Ambrose.

When he debuted as the charismatic, off-kilter mouthpiece for The Shield, I was immediately on board. Having watched him at numerous local shows before his big league debut filled me with a sense of vicarious accomplishment in a perverse way. It was clear that Cincinnati was about to have it's biggest pro wrestling star since Brian Pillman, and it was exciting.

Over time, though...they took away his edginess and made him a goofball-type that would probably be more fitting as an aloof character in a high school based sitcom. Sort of like AC Slater and Screech if they REALLY took things to the Max.

Really thinking about it, I feel that it may just be WWE's way of presenting babyfaces that has seemingly "unhinged" his genitals from his body, but that's the environment that I currently see him in, and it just makes me lunatic cringe.

A heel turn might do wonders. But until then, I miss you, Mox.

Soured on Stone Cold Steve Austin after they pushed him as the face vs. Bret Hart

Soured on Undertaker after they turned him into the "American Badass" because it was like "what the hell, this isn't The Undertaker at all". Was real "turned off" by the dark mysterious Undertaker suddenly being a motorcycle riding redneck.

Got a bit "back on board" when he cut his hair and turned heel, enjoyed him then.....

Hulk Hogan - Used to be a huge fan as a kid and when he became Hollywood Hogan but soured on him when he just kept hogging the spotlight in WCW. Also after finding about all the stuff he used to do backstage. Didn't like his TNA run at all since it quickly mimicked his bad WCW days.

Macho Man - Same as Hogan with being a huge fan as a kid and during his WCW days but soured on him when it started to seem like he was getting legit crazy with the real life feud against Hogan. Unlike Hogan, went back to being a fan of him a few years before his death.

Tito Santana. He was one of my favourites growing up, but from rewatching his old stuff from 84-86 he came off as such a whiny bitch in his promos. He also had this habit of switching over to Spanish when he'd start stammering and messing his words.

A lot of his matches were a bore as well. His matches with Valentine and Savage were great, but more often that not youre watching match after match of Tito having his opponent in an armbar for minutes at a time.

i soured on Owen Hart when he though he could fly.

I've been waiting to upset you guys with this for a long time.

When I first started wrestling, my three favorites wrestlers were 1. Kane, 2. Test, and 3. Matt Hardy.

On paper, I shouldn't have liked Kane. The lack of continuity in his story arc, even his thematic presentation. Growing up with Pokemon, I was always a Pokemon Blue -- start with Squirtle, "fuck your Charizard, son" guy. I honestly think what I liked about Kane when I first started watching was that he was a side character. I've always preferred personalities that are away from the spotlight. Maybe there are some that feel Kane wasn't far away enough from the spotlight, but I always felt a bit of sympathy for his character. In fact, I can never say that I ever hated Kane. The company did a lot to diminish my interest, but the dumb, idiot child in me would always pop when he got a random win -- like over Edge at Vengeance 2005. Sorry about bringing that up.

I wasn't even opposed to his 2010 World Heavyweight Title run. I'm not a big fan of giving guys "thank you" runs, because you should only get the belt if you deserve it, but it was a company guy that had done his best to put guys over (although I struggle to think of one he really benefited), and was obviously something of a lighthouse in the lockerroom -- and about as mobile as one too. He got his win over The Undertaker, in his older brother's signature match too. Kane had a nice little moment.

Then he's still wrestling in 2014. But he gets squashed by The Shield, so it's okay, now he's done. Then he's still wrestling in 2015 and eliminates half the Royal Rumble again. Now it's 2016 and he pins Bray Wyatt on PPV and is still being protected. Do you think they're planning on something special for him at WrestleMania, guys? Maybe a match with The Undertaker? Don't say it's impossible.

Kane has been consistent over his career. As Luke Edwards once said "consistently shit," but you know what you're getting with Kane. Even for someone who still loves Kane, it's surely starting to get long in the tooth. Time for a visit to Isaac Yankem's office to get it removed. Liz Hurley is trending because she still looks amazing at 51 despite a discernible lack of talent -- Kane has got no excuses.

What can I say about Test? I don't know why I liked guys with zero personality, but I just did. I still have soft spots for Curtis Axel, Chavo Guerrero and Charlie Haas. He must have had some personality somewhere though, right? I mean, he got to bang Stacy Keibler and Kelly Kelly -- I can only conclude that Test has the sexual charisma of a George Clooney or a hockey player -- it just never came out in the ring.

I remember he beat William Regal, one of my favorites now, in what was basically a squash in early 2001 to capture the European Championship. Even looking back, I don't hate that decision. Jerry Lawler was actually pretty good on the call even then, and made it sound like something was wrong with Regal, and the match made Test look better than a longer match would have. I honestly think we could use more of this in wrestling today. And look -- I've derailed my own submission about Test to talk about the state of wrestling in general because that is more interesting.

He didn't suck. He had a decent look. There were times where he looked too skinny to be a real big man, but they tried to balance it out by making him seem agile and like he was young with the entire world in front of him -- right up until 2006 and his ECW run. I honestly credit in him to the magic of Jim Ross on commentary, always willing to talk about what a star Test was going to be. It's the same reason I didn't hate Billy Gunn right away.

Matt Hardy seemed like a breathe of normal in a land of giants. Well, he seemed like a normal-sized guy compared to the giants around him. And he always did quite well for himself and looked really proactive out there. I always thought of him as the better Hardy. It was clear Jeff was the more charismatic of the two, but I always did like those side players.

Looking back, it seemed like Raven was going to be the guy to win the European Title off Eddie Guerrero, and I hate that he didn't -- but at the time, I marked out pretty huge for Matt Hardy's win and, I think, one title defence against K-Kwik.

When The Hardys split and Matt turned heel, it sucked. But then they put them back together and I couldn't tell if they sucked or if early 2002 sucked. Then Mattitude came along and something there worked. He was a fireball of personality all of a sudden. Many would say the gimmick had a roof, but like John Cena's Dr. of Thuganomics persona, it was at least heating him up. Then he got moved to RAW, was used as a face without the quirks and we jump ahead a bit to the Edge/Lita stuff.

He was genuinely over in 2005. People wanted him back and with a vengeance. He comes out, shakes hands with Vince -- something that I think killed him dead and was intended to -- with the final death blow coming when Edge, not Hardy, was disqualified for kicking to much ass at SummerSlam that year.

It was hard to give a shit about Matt Hardy too much after this point, but it was around 2010 that I realized he and Christian were basically doing the same "We're those tag team guys from 2000 you remember -- please cheer us" gimmick that I realized just how little I gave a shit. It was gone. I wanted things to be rekindled, but everyone was pointing out how fat he was getting. "He's not getting that fat!" the child within in me would scream -- but yes...yes he was.

He would eventually leave. Maybe he would get to change things up on his own? Maybe he'd cut his hair, act his age (apparently a problem he had backstage after being signed to the company when he was 11), get some new pants and maybe "learn a new hold" as JR would say. He got dreads and Tyler Reks started trending on Twitter. He's no Liz Hurley either. To my understanding (I didn't watch much TNA and don't feel I need to explain why), Matt was just a grumbly heel that never did anything.

There was a pretty funny video to promote a match with Kevin Steen in ROH. And now we're here. With Broken Matt Hardy. Can we please talk about this for a bit?

You guys revisit history a lot, so your contemporary views don't get out there that much. I think that's very wise, because the amount of shit one catches for talking about how repulsive, disgusting, ineffective, offensive, obscene, obtrusive, how...how...obso-fucking-lete this atrocious piece of shit gimmick is baffles me, and makes me think that wrestling fans are a big part of the problems with modern wrestling, going beyond simple "This is awesome" chants. People like this shit.
"It's supposed to be bad."
"At least it's different."
"Chris Jericho likes it."
"It popped a rating once."

Yeah, TNA's ratings went up by, like, 10%. That just means Jeff's kids watched. "Uncle Matt is trying this week, kids." I even tried to watch it to see if maybe there was charm. Abyss or Crazzy Steve (I couldn't fucking tell because it was filmed so bad) fought with Jeff in a pool as Matt caught magic in his mouth. I was done. I was not fucking charmed. Liz Hurley in a bikini this was not.

Fuck Broken Matt. It is making me hate The Hardy Boys retroactively for filling these men's minds with the idea that they could do anything and it would be brilliant and catch on like Lita in a Mexican locker-room. The word "Mexican" is possibly obsolete there and should be deleted.

I honestly believe there is still money in Jeff. If he came back to the WWE, he'd get a pop, could have an eye kept on him, work a part-time schedule and move merchandise. Matt Hardy -- well, he'd get pops and could occasionally team with Jeff. There are people telling me they want to see Broken Matt in the WWE. They want to hear that accent cut promos on Bray Wyatt. And then they wonder why nobody fucking watches in 2016.

I don't like Lucha Underground, but it exists in its own universe as sort of a Mortal Kombat-style fighting game come to life. Glacier might have worked in Lucha Underground. But there's a reason Glacier didn't work in WCW, and there's a reason that Broken Matt and his backyard horseshit doesn't work in professional wrestling. Matt Hardy won't die, but fuck I wish TNA would.

I quite like Senor Benjamin on Twitter though.

LMFAO

Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson:
 

It pains me to say this, but it's The Rock for me.

I absolutely loved the guy from 1998 - 2004, as both heel and face, and even liked him when he returned in 2011 when he was involved with Miz and Cena, but his 2012-2014 feud with Cena kind of soured me on him.

His digs at Cena were way too personal, and The Rock genuinely came across as a try hard douche going through a mid life crisis. To me, Dwayne did come across as a little holier than thou in his approach and I just didn't love like I did in 1999 (as is my case with Homer Simpson).

Because you have zero personality yourself

Here is a sample of mike adamle's personality:

Dylan Staples Appreciation Thread
Will you guys welcome my brother to the forums?
I'd like to thank whiteyford for apologizing to me
Did some looking and finally found a legit pic of Seth82

Had a pretty big laugh reading all of those, thank you! :y: Those were some classics

#gorm

:lol:Tito "I'm gonna do my best" Santana

For me its Rey Mysterio, while I was never a HUGE fan I loved him in WCW when he got to the WWE he became so formulaic in the ring that I absolutely hated to see him coming.

To answer the threads question, it's a toss up between Bray Wyatt and Dolph Ziggler.

A great listen. I loved hearing the rant on Broken Matt and the audibles called on Kane and Punk.

I wish I had of said something about Ryder. The dude fucking sucks. I do appreciate that he tries hard and got himself over with the least diverse audience in history, but he fucking sucks. If you go back and watch the Ladder Match at WrestleMania this year, there's this moment where someone is spinning the ladder. I can't remember if it is Cody or Kevin, but Zack just...walks into it. He fed as obviously for The Miz on the RAW after Mania too.

I hate the one forearm he gets on offence that stuns his opponenet for ten seconds so he can hit his stupid boot. I hate his elbow drop that he forgets to hit sometimes. He looks pretty good from an aesthetic point of view, but he cannot work and if he can talk, he hides it really well.

I want to thank everybody for the contributions, we got to read many of them on the show, which is now available at the following link:

http://squaredcirclegazette.podbean....f_The_Rose.mp3

Join us as we discuss Favourites That You Soured On! Taking your nominations, we discuss individuals that were once thought of in high regard, but for whatever reason have fallen from grace in the eyes of you, the loyal listeners, and us around the oaken table. Names such as Mick Foley, Matt Hardy, Jim Ross, Dean Ambrose, Brock Lesnar, The Rock, Sting, Jake Roberts, Rob Van Dam, Seth Rollins, Ric Flair and Zack Ryder all get discussed, as well as many others to boot. A very fun show this week, check it out and let us know what you think!

Awesome listen as per usual. :y:

To be fair Ambrose did get to show that lunatic side of himself in his match with Brock Lesnar. WWE PG TV kinda reduces him to seeming more carefree than nuts like at WM32.

I'm with Karl on putting The Shield back together. They are far more valuable together than apart. Roman Reigns flopped as top face, Rollins didn't work as top heel and it looks like his face push is going lop-sided, and Dean Ambrose is getting long in the tooth.

I also completely agree that the brand split was unnecessary. It's weird that it didn't occur to the WWE to try making SmackDown good before they went that route. It's easy to get excited about a split due to the draft, the possibilities the mind goes through -- seeing teams sorted is fun -- but Karl is completely right when he says that you don't need to have people on every week.

You can still give each show its own hook. Mauro's commentary seems to be something that people enjoy. Put him with a Daniel Bryan and let them provide that "safe listening experience" on SmackDown. You can do the flippy cruiser stuff on RAW, Enzo & Cass can do their shtick exclusively on SmackDown for a few weeks, Cesaro can have matches there for a few weeks, etc. You can shake up each show's feel without locking certain people into specific roles and needing to bring back the likes of Jinder Mahal and Curt Hawkins to pad out your roster.