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-   -   From what I hear, the common mark doesn't like Beniot (https://www.tpwwforums.com/showthread.php?t=228)

BigDaddyCool 12-09-2003 12:40 PM

From what I hear, the common mark doesn't like Beniot
 
All the people I have talked to, that don't go the wrestling sites, and don't read the dirt sheets, and just watch wrestling because it is there don't like Beniot. And are kind of upset that he is going against Brock for a title. They are even kinda pissed that he beat Cena to do it.

Why is this? Because Beniot is boring. He is rather boring in the ring. We know what he will do, sure he does it techinally, but the moves are boring and with out a certain flare. He is hella boring outside the ring as well. He can't cut a promo to save his life. It is just him spoating a rather lame catch phrase.

Now I know what you all are going to say about him being the best and most deserving wrestler in the world, and how he should be a multi time champion by now. But that is just you all being stubborn and not seeing Beniot as what he is. He is boring, he has no charisma, and what he did have in ring skills have gone to the way side to produce a boring, predicable wrestler.

Ricky 12-09-2003 12:48 PM

I agree.

I wanted Cena to get the title shot.

Benoit is a good wrestler, but he has gotten way to stale and apart from his "I am the best technical wrestler in the world" thing, which got old 3 years ago, he has no gimmick. No one cares about someone who has no gimmick. Well, smarks might, but the average fan does not.

The CyNick 12-09-2003 01:25 PM

Actually from my experience being at live wrestling events, I would say people do react to Benoit's matches once they get started. He may not getr the biggest pop coming out (which of course means nothing), but once the match is over he usually has the fans in the palm of his hands. Best example fo this was the Rumble in Boston, he got a standing ovation, and I dont think ALL those fans were stubborn hardcore wrestling fans.

The main problem is that Benoit has been booked poorly form the start, so people dont see him as a main eventer, they see him as an "IC title guy". Had the WWE established him as a top guy from his first day Benoit would be an over champion. Not to the level of an Austin or Rock, but he could have been a solid 2nd tier guy who the fans take seriously.

I'm all for pushing Cena, but at the same time I dont think they should rush his push. Just as it owuld be stupid for them to have Cena do JOBs, and kill his popularity it would alos be dumb to blow their load and give him the title before the fans have had a chance to really want to see him achieve that success (in otherwords bleed the fans dry).

BasicThuganomics 12-09-2003 02:55 PM

it must be me, but it seems like th fans go crazy everytime he locks the crossface on anybody? As far as Benoit being stale goes, look at what he's been given since the MOTY (in my opinion) he put on with Angle at Royal Rumble:
alot of tag team matches
a fued with Rhyno (which got a lousy payoff on TV and ended badly)
a fued with Eddie Guerrero (which produced the match of the night at Vengeance i think it was)
stuck in the US title hunt
and of course a long fued with A TRAIN (complete bullshit!!!)


Benoit hasn't had much to do since Royal Rumble (when he was very over at the time) But give Benoit a chance to prove himself in the main event scene and he is capable of getting himself over. His promo about how the WWE title is what he has worked for his entire life and how much he sacrificed in his quest for it was really good i thought. Have him cut another promo similar to that (or just re-air that one even?) Get Benoit in the ring and he can get himself over and put on a 5star match (at Royal Rumble i hope.) I'll admit that he is not the most charasmatic guy in the WWE and that he doesn't have much of a character beyond being "best damn technical wrestler" and someone who likes to do his talking in the ring. But honestly, it works for him, and he can still get over with the fans by doing what he has done before. Only now he can ACTUALLY WIN THE WWE TITLE!!!!!!

The Show Off 12-09-2003 03:45 PM

I think I like Benoit better because of Tazz, everytime Tazz yells "German!" it gets me going. Also the tremendous "You tapped out!" chant that happened at Survivor Series was huge, and who made Brock tap out? No other then the Crippler.

StoneColdStunner 12-09-2003 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Show Off
I think I like Benoit better because of Tazz, everytime Tazz yells "German!" it gets me going. Also the tremendous "You tapped out!" chant that happened at Survivor Series was huge, and who made Brock tap out? No other then the Crippler.

:shifty: RIGHT that's a Great reason to like Benoit :wtf:

Ricky 12-09-2003 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Show Off
I think I like Benoit better because of Tazz, everytime Tazz yells "German!" it gets me going. Also the tremendous "You tapped out!" chant that happened at Survivor Series was huge, and who made Brock tap out? No other then the Crippler.

That's more about giving Lesnar heel heat, rather than cheering for Benoit. The "you tapped out" thing was already something that was being chanted at Lesnar since Summerslam, long before Benoit had anything to do with it.

StoneColdStunner 12-09-2003 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ricky
That's more about giving Lesnar heel heat, rather than cheering for Benoit. The "you tapped out" thing was already something that was being chanted at Lesnar since Summerslam, long before Benoit had anything to do with it.

Your so cool :p See i can kiss ass like SPLAYA did does this make me a good boy :kiss: :rofl:

loopydate 12-09-2003 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StoneColdStunner
Your so cool :p See i can kiss ass like SPLAYA did does this make me a good boy :kiss: :rofl:

:nono:

Ricky 12-09-2003 03:57 PM

SHUT THE **** UP

loopydate 12-09-2003 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ricky
SHUT THE **** UP

*Hopes you're talking about Stunner*

StoneColdStunner 12-09-2003 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ricky
SHUT THE **** UP

I take that as a :yes: thanx :heart:

Kenny 12-09-2003 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigDaddyCool
All the people I have talked to, that don't go the wrestling sites, and don't read the dirt sheets, and just watch wrestling because it is there don't like Beniot. And are kind of upset that he is going against Brock for a title. They are even kinda pissed that he beat Cena to do it.

Why is this? Because Beniot is boring. He is rather boring in the ring. We know what he will do, sure he does it techinally, but the moves are boring and with out a certain flare. He is hella boring outside the ring as well. He can't cut a promo to save his life. It is just him spoating a rather lame catch phrase.

Now I know what you all are going to say about him being the best and most deserving wrestler in the world, and how he should be a multi time champion by now. But that is just you all being stubborn and not seeing Beniot as what he is. He is boring, he has no charisma, and what he did have in ring skills have gone to the way side to produce a boring, predicable wrestler.

Your arguement for Benoit's moves applies to nearly every wrestler there has been since I've been watching wrestling.

RVD and Kane, hell they had nearly the same routine for every match. RVD gets beaten up, Kane makes the tag. Kane clotheslines 2 people, throws one in the corner, throws the other in a corner, clothesline, clotheslin, side walk slam, big boot... goes for choke slam, choke slam is interupted, double team on Kane, RVD saves Kane with top rope kick... and from there the heels either cheated to win or Kane finally did hit the choke slam followed with a 5 Star.

My point with all of that rambling is why is he any more pedictable than any other wrestler? Including John Cena.

What does Cena have over Benoit? Mic skills. Incredible Mic Skills. But part of Chris Benoits character is NOT getting on the mic that much. To be honest, the last time Benoit took on a character I LOVED it. It was back when he was fueding with Eddie and he was acting like a little kid.

Come on that had to atleast get a giggle. "Make it bounce Eddie! Make it bounce."

You know when Benoit's not so predictable? When you throw him in with other wrestlers who are not so predictable. Like Angle and Cena. The matches are a lot better.

StoneColdStunner 12-09-2003 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ricky
I mean it, **** off you prick

I will **** off my prick but first a qeustion can we be friends...you now christmas coming and all. Let's hold hands, Jump in the air, be happy. MMkay?

The Show Off 12-09-2003 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StoneColdStunner
:shifty: RIGHT that's a Great reason to like Benoit :wtf:

I said I liked him better because if it, and is that such a bad reason to like him more? Lay off the negetivity kid.

StoneColdStunner 12-09-2003 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Show Off
I said I liked him better because if it, and is that such a bad reason to like him more? Lay off the negetivity kid.

Kid...your the same age kid... :naughty: just was boring myself.
I did not meen to be personal. olright :)

BigDaddyCool 12-09-2003 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenny5682
Your arguement for Benoit's moves applies to nearly every wrestler there has been since I've been watching wrestling.

RVD and Kane, hell they had nearly the same routine for every match. RVD gets beaten up, Kane makes the tag. Kane clotheslines 2 people, throws one in the corner, throws the other in a corner, clothesline, clotheslin, side walk slam, big boot... goes for choke slam, choke slam is interupted, double team on Kane, RVD saves Kane with top rope kick... and from there the heels either cheated to win or Kane finally did hit the choke slam followed with a 5 Star.

My point with all of that rambling is why is he any more pedictable than any other wrestler? Including John Cena.

What does Cena have over Benoit? Mic skills. Incredible Mic Skills. But part of Chris Benoits character is NOT getting on the mic that much. To be honest, the last time Benoit took on a character I LOVED it. It was back when he was fueding with Eddie and he was acting like a little kid.

Come on that had to atleast get a giggle. "Make it bounce Eddie! Make it bounce."

You know when Benoit's not so predictable? When you throw him in with other wrestlers who are not so predictable. Like Angle and Cena. The matches are a lot better.

Yeah, but that doesn't stop me from being any less right.

Kenny 12-09-2003 04:19 PM

Also.. this junk about Cena or Benoit being in the top spot. I think it's a bad move for BOTH men to throw Cena in the top spot at the moment.

When you look at your big draws for the better days of wrestling you think... Bret Hart, Stone Cold Steve Austin, Shawn Michaels, Triple H, and of course The Rock. What do all these guys have in common? A descent run as Intercontinental Champion before their world title days.

But you also think of guys like... The Undertaker. Guys like The Undertaker, Big Show, Brock Lesnar, Yokozuna, etc... they're huge. So the second you see these guys in a ring you think "Big timer"... or "Main eventer". So yeah, f*ck mid card for them. Guys like that are born main eventers and also have it in them to MAKE main eventers.

People are still talking about Andre being slammed by Hogan because Andre's size made him an instant main eventer.

Hell even more recent stars like Booker T and Kurt Angle had their runs as mid carders before world title holders.

I think it's a big mistake to throw Cena into the main event picture. I think Cena should be given the US Title and let him have a GOOD run with it. The more asses Cena kicks the bigger he's going to be cause the crowd likes a WINNER. Then when you see nothing but Word Life and You Can't See Me gestures in the crowd... have him throw that US title in a toilet, take a piss on it, and rap about having his time now and get that world title.

Now, is just too soon.

Champion of Europa 12-09-2003 04:30 PM

In the earliest versions of Creative Control, I did bash Benoit quite a bit.

I haven't had the oppurtunity to do it much recently. :(

Mikey 12-09-2003 04:53 PM

All I know is that I know someone who is a mark and he thinks Benoit is god!

The CyNick 12-09-2003 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenny5682
Also.. this junk about Cena or Benoit being in the top spot. I think it's a bad move for BOTH men to throw Cena in the top spot at the moment.

When you look at your big draws for the better days of wrestling you think... Bret Hart, Stone Cold Steve Austin, Shawn Michaels, Triple H, and of course The Rock. What do all these guys have in common? A descent run as Intercontinental Champion before their world title days.

But you also think of guys like... The Undertaker. Guys like The Undertaker, Big Show, Brock Lesnar, Yokozuna, etc... they're huge. So the second you see these guys in a ring you think "Big timer"... or "Main eventer". So yeah, f*ck mid card for them. Guys like that are born main eventers and also have it in them to MAKE main eventers.

People are still talking about Andre being slammed by Hogan because Andre's size made him an instant main eventer.

Hell even more recent stars like Booker T and Kurt Angle had their runs as mid carders before world title holders.

I think it's a big mistake to throw Cena into the main event picture. I think Cena should be given the US Title and let him have a GOOD run with it. The more asses Cena kicks the bigger he's going to be cause the crowd likes a WINNER. Then when you see nothing but Word Life and You Can't See Me gestures in the crowd... have him throw that US title in a toilet, take a piss on it, and rap about having his time now and get that world title.

Now, is just too soon.

Titles like the IC/US have been booked to mean nothing, and as a result people these days dont care whether a guy has won the secondary title before getting a push tot he main event. Its not like back in the day when winning the IC title meant you were one step away form the main event, fans have been programed not to care about that stuff.

That being said, I would agree with the idea that both Cena and ORton should get solid runs with the secondary titles before getting the World title.

BasicThuganomics 12-09-2003 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigDaddyCool
Yeah, but that doesn't stop me from being any less right.

Thats just your opinion, the fact that it is your opinion doesn't make it anymore right...

John la Rock 12-10-2003 12:10 AM

Benoit is due and the fans are definetly behind him. Everybody I know who likes wrestling, (non interner people), love Benoit cause they respect his athletism.

From what I see on Smackdown everyweek, the fans dig him too. He'll be champ before Mania no doubt about it

John la Rock 12-10-2003 12:10 AM

Benoit is due and the fans are definetly behind him. Everybody I know who likes wrestling, (non interner people), love Benoit cause they respect his athletism.

From what I see on Smackdown everyweek, the fans dig him too. He'll be champ before Mania no doubt about it :y:

RGWhat316 12-10-2003 01:13 AM

Well, I like Benoit, but I'm not that big of a fan. I would have rather seen Cena go over him. Some of the reasons that I'm not big on him is he has no gimmick, and doesn't seem to interact with the crowd too much. I think the biggest time to get a reaction is the entrance, and usually Benoit just walks out and gets in the ring. The only time I really seem him try to get the crowd into it is when he signals for the top rope headbutt.

krakker818 12-10-2003 01:30 AM

IMO, they should throw the IC/US titles on important people for, lets say, a few weeks..bring back some credibility...and there ya go...titles are good again...Raw: HHH while he waits to regain the World Title....Smackdown: ? not a big SD viewer...if Angle was around I'd say him...

point being, if you put the secondary titles on "main eventers" while the world titles are being held by others, it puts more credibility into the 'smaller' titles...Orton beats HHH for IC (IC's on RAW right?) and it puts Orton over...

get my drift?

BasicThuganomics 12-10-2003 01:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by krakker818
IMO, they should throw the IC/US titles on important people for, lets say, a few weeks..bring back some credibility...and there ya go...titles are good again...Raw: HHH while he waits to regain the World Title....Smackdown: ? not a big SD viewer...if Angle was around I'd say him...

point being, if you put the secondary titles on "main eventers" while the world titles are being held by others, it puts more credibility into the 'smaller' titles...Orton beats HHH for IC (IC's on RAW right?) and it puts Orton over...

get my drift?


WTF? Do you know what this topic is about?

Sting Fan 12-10-2003 01:41 AM

I had the pleasure of watching some old wrestling tapes with 5 guys 2 of them dont really like wrestling they were just hangers on and the other 3 are complete marks they probably dont even know there is wrestling stuff on the net. Not one of them like benoit yet they all loved the Rock but it was realy funny to watch them because they all were realy into the Rock but throughout all of his matches they ate they talked and did just about everything but actualy watch. Yet when a Benoit match came on (and his opponent was the Big Show) they couldnt take there eyes off it there isnt realy a point to this except im starting to think eventhough marks say they dislike Benoit i think his ringwork has become a dirty pleasure to marks just like most smarks have a soft spot for at least one mediocore worker. This was just a story to illustrate a point that maybe eventhough a lot of people say they dislike Benoit he will probably get over as a champion kind of like how a lot of marks say they dont like Bret Hart but if you put them in front of a Hart match they cant help but almost drool.


If anyone gets what i mean because that sounds really disjointed time for coffe i think.

Corkscrewed 12-10-2003 03:24 AM

Basically, Benoit has been elevated to main event again, but he doesn't have a true gimmick or character. He's just the awesome wrestler guy who is ferocious. Fans that find him "boring" don't really have a story to get behind, whereas Cena is current COOL, so understandably, most people will root for him more.

Had Benoit had something to work with, I think the common fan would be a lot more openly supportive.

Rammsteinmad 12-10-2003 06:09 AM

Benoit always has been, and always will be my all time favourite wrestler.

Like people has already stated, he doesn't need to have mic skills to be over. He's a machine that does his talking in the ring. Like he use to say in WCW... "Silent but violent". He also shows an intensity not many others show.

Other than that, he also has great endurance and stamina and is truly inspirational. What about last Smackdown? Going through that match with Cena, and taking an FU, only to go on and have that half hour match with Lesnar which involved kicking out of an F5.

The reason Benoit's been stale so lately is because he's been working bad angles, and his desire to slowly fading. Now however, it looks as though he's set to be in a World Title angle with Lesnar. Now, we have two great workers, and a decent enough angle, this is what Benoit needs to get motivated again.

Kane Knight 12-10-2003 11:21 AM

Let's see. Of the people I know who watch wrestling, about one of them (Myself) is an "internet fan." My friends have never been considered "smarts." Hell, they're my friends...How could they even be considered smart? :p

Two of my casual (By casual, I mean casual wrestling fans) friends have just started tuning in again regularly because they think the action's picking up again. They're both pumped for Benoit (Though one of them would have PREFERRED Cena).

One of my casual buddies seems to be Vince's ideal fan. The guy thinks that the bigger the guy is, the badder he is. I think he's compensating for being a midget. :lol: He's a monster Lesnar mark, but cheers for the likes of Show, Taker, Jones, Morgan....He loved the Radicalz, however. He DOES like Benoit, but not as much as "Latino Heeeeeeeat," Who's evidently one of his favorites (Ironic, considering what I just mentioned).

I know a guy who HATES Benoit, and anyone similar to him. Technical ability means shit to him, and he's pretty bored by Smackdown period. Not enough personality.

Annnnnnd one of my friends is cumming himself over Benoit having a title shot. Because he's pretty casual about wrestling, I think he tuned out when Lesnar took over. I'm not sure if it's because he loves Chris, or because he HATES Brock. I think there's a good chance that He'd cheer Cena, Benoit, or Michael Cole if it got Lesnar away from the title. Or he could be a Benoit mark. I dunno.

See, if I went on what my friends thought, I'd have to think that Benoit was mad popular. Granted, maybe BDC has a bigger sampling group (I have, tops, 8 wrestling fans I know well...Most of my friends are "above" rassling in one way or another...). Going off what I've seen on the internet, I'd also have to believe that the common mark isn't into what Vince wants. I mean, when even RPG forums and the like complain about the wastes of space that are people like Show, something's wrong. Granted, I never polled an RPG forum (Or any other forum) to see if they like Benoit specifically, so maybe that's out too.

This is why it's so hard to trust statistics. Conduct ten different polls, depending on the places you go, and you'll get anywhere up to 10 different results.

Lamuella 12-10-2003 11:48 AM

the casual fans I know in real life love Benoit. They also love cena, and have done since he was a heel. Most of them think Benoit deserves a shot at the title and want him to win, but also say 'If he doesn't get it, Cena will.'

Corkscrewed 12-11-2003 04:26 PM

*marks out of Lamuella* (:p)

born angry 12-11-2003 04:43 PM

i would go one further and say the casual fan does'nt like benoit and thats more important

i always judge who'll be big my listening to my friends who are'nt wrestling fans

JOHN CENA

Mr. Nerfect 12-11-2003 05:13 PM

I think Benoit does deserve a title shot. He's a great wrestler. As far as his charisma goes, I think he should be pushed as the no-nonsense kind of guy Maybe a gimmick where he never wins by pinfall only submission? He needs something going for him. I think a manager like Paul Heyman would be a good idea for Benoit. The biggest reaction Benoit gets is when he slaps on the Crippler Crossface. Maybe we could see a face Shane McMahon manage Benoit? I know what everyone here thinks of the McMahons, but if you put one with Benoit in a role where they cut a promo on Benoit's talent, then just manage him, I think it would be OK. Vince or Shane in Benoit's corner=:drool:.

I don't think Benoit should turn heel until he really makes an impact as a face. Maybe he could turn on Cena. A feud between the two would be great.

MVP 12-11-2003 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The CyNick
Titles like the IC/US have been booked to mean nothing, and as a result people these days dont care whether a guy has won the secondary title before getting a push tot he main event. Its not like back in the day when winning the IC title meant you were one step away form the main event, fans have been programed not to care about that stuff.

That being said, I would agree with the idea that both Cena and ORton should get solid runs with the secondary titles before getting the World title.

I completely agree with that. The IC and U.S. titles should be the "stepping stones" for main event status. That's why I'm always disappointed when they put those belts on people that have NO chance at being in the main event scene, i.e. Billy Gunn, Goldust, Chyna (please don't flame me girls). The IC and U.S. title get little to no respect. The way Big Show just flaunts that title around and already defends it brings down the title's credability.

John Cena is NOT ready to be in the main event scene. He has the strength (F-Uing the Big Show twice), but I don't think he has enough endurance. Plus he hasn't been around long enough to be pushed that far without the possiblity of him being buried. Benoit on the other hand is definitely ready, regardless of whether or not he has a gimmick (Chris Candido was a very successful superstar with the "NO Gimmick Needed" gimmick).

Just a thought here: Even though most of the legendary WWE champions have held the IC title, look at Brock Lesnar, who was pushed to win the WWE title within 10 months I think, and never held any midcard titles.

The CyNick 12-12-2003 01:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MVP
I completely agree with that. The IC and U.S. titles should be the "stepping stones" for main event status. That's why I'm always disappointed when they put those belts on people that have NO chance at being in the main event scene, i.e. Billy Gunn, Goldust, Chyna (please don't flame me girls). The IC and U.S. title get little to no respect. The way Big Show just flaunts that title around and already defends it brings down the title's credability.

John Cena is NOT ready to be in the main event scene. He has the strength (F-Uing the Big Show twice), but I don't think he has enough endurance. Plus he hasn't been around long enough to be pushed that far without the possiblity of him being buried. Benoit on the other hand is definitely ready, regardless of whether or not he has a gimmick (Chris Candido was a very successful superstar with the "NO Gimmick Needed" gimmick).

Just a thought here: Even though most of the legendary WWE champions have held the IC title, look at Brock Lesnar, who was pushed to win the WWE title within 10 months I think, and never held any midcard titles.

The thing that Brock had going for him was A) his size, which makes people automatically associate him as a main eventer and B) he got the Goldberg push so he didn't need to win a secondary title because he was given a WWE title shot so quickly.

BigDaddyCool 12-12-2003 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kane Knight
Granted, maybe BDC has a bigger sampling group (I have, tops, 8 wrestling fans I know well...Most of my friends are "above" rassling in one way or another...).

Yeah, much bigger, I personally know like 20 some odd people that are into wrestling. And then another 30 some odd on like msn buddy lists that aren't like internet fans.

BigDaddyCool 12-12-2003 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigDaddyCool
Yeah, much bigger, I personally know like 20 some odd people that are into wrestling. And then another 30 some odd on like msn buddy lists that aren't like internet fans.

Still, that isn't a good size to truely get a taste for the causal fan.

diamondcutter 12-13-2003 05:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The CyNick
The thing that Brock had going for him was A) his size, which makes people automatically associate him as a main eventer and B) he got the Goldberg push so he didn't need to win a secondary title because he was given a WWE title shot so quickly.


Actually, Goldberg won the U.S. Title before he won the World Title in WCW. As far as people calling Benoit "boring," and "lacking charisma," I strongly disagree. As others have said, being "no-nonsense" IS his character. A wrestler on RAW known as Test comes to mind when I think of boring and no charisma, not Benoit.


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