Cain Velasquez vs. Brock Lesnar and other fights
 

Does Cain have enough power to knock Brock out? Or will Brock dominate him

How do their wrestling skills compare to eachother?

Carwin couldn't knock out Lesnar.

However, Cain might be more accurate. Accuracy won't help him from his back, and Brock is bigger. Cain is better on the ground though.

Cain could possibly knock Brock up if he could keep it on his feet, but I don't see it happening.

He doesn't have Carwin's power. He did KO Big Nog, but based on his last three fights, Nogueira isn't the same fighter that fought Fedor.

He definitely isn't going to out wrestle Brock, although he does have a decent amateur background.

If he's going to survive and pull off the upset, I think it might be due to Brock overlooking him or not having the proper conditioning. In terms of skill set, Brock has the edge.

MARK MY WORDS: Junior Dos Santos will be the one who knocks Brock off.

How do you figure Dos Santos will? I'm just curious, as he couldn't even finish Fat Country.

Nelson's chin > Brock's Chin. Dos Santos is a bad dude, but that doesn't=me getting on that bandwagon.

I absolutely feel that Velasquez can beat Brock. Carwin in the rematch will definitely beat Brock.

dos santos will just get sat on.

I haven't seen much of Velasquez, but what I have seen pretty much tells me that Lesnar is going to kill him.

Personally, I'd rather see a rematch with Carwin anyway, so I'm hoping for a Lesnar win.

what would warrant a Carwin rematch?

Roy Nelson is one of the more skilled and experienced fighters in the heavyweight divison. He's also in better shape, in terms of conditioning, than Shane Carwin (watch some of his pre-UFC MMA stuff or even the fight with Dos Santos before you laugh). If Carwin spent more time on conditioning he'd be champ. Nelson presented Dos Santos with a smarter opponent than Mir, who was caught in the emotion of the rematch, and someone who could go the distance unlike Carwin.

Carwin, while having a great wrestling background, is more of a brawler. That played into Brock's hands. Dos Santos will be a little bit more patient in there.

In terms of training, Dos Santos has two of the best with Nogueira and Silva. If you don't think they know more about analyzing an opponent and developing a game plan than anyone in Mir or Carwin's corner you're crazy.

Dos Santos goes in at 240 while Brock has to cut weight. I think that will affect him. Also, you can't dismiss the age difference.

It's all of those little factors that will make the difference.

Does Brock have to be equal weight as Dos Santos if they fight?

Coz he destroyed Lesnar like nobody else? (in the first round anyway).

Dunno really, just something I'd like to see again.

I mean, if he has to work his way through the ranks or whatever, I can wait. But I just really wanna see these two go at it again.

If Carwin got a rematch I'm hoping he'd do some SERIOUS work on his conditioning.

Hey genius... Carwin had greg jackson in his corner, so if you think that theres anyone out there whos better at analyzing a fight YOUR CRAZY

How did carwin being a brawler play into brocks hands? So what, Carwin being willing to swing and catching brock and dropping him and then going crazy on top for the finish was playing into brocks hands? GTFO.

Roy is not in better conditioning than carwin. My god. Carwin had a huge adrenaline dump after freaking the fuck out on top of lesnar. Roy doesnt do anything in his fights except throw a few yhaymakers and lay on a guys chest. Of course he looked like he had cardio with dos santos, he couldnt do anything at all, and your not burning energy if you are standing there not doing anything.

A weight cut isnt going to hurt or affect brock, are you crazy? Hes been doing it since he was in college and when your that size, a 10-15 lb cut is nothing.

valazques will work lesnar.


in terms of the style of wrestling the two employ, cain's is more effective and he is also probably a better wrestler in mma. He can mix up strikes and takedowns on top of being fast. brock barrels in for double legs across the cage and doesnt set it up on top of looking completely awkward on his feet. He actually uses his shot to set up big punches which should tell you something.

You answered most of this for me and made it easy. Good for you.

Carwin is a brawler and what did he do? He went out and punched himself tired, like brawlers do. The result? He faded and got choked out. End of story.

As far as trainers, Greg Jackson's amazing, but I'll still take Anderson Silva considering he's beaten up on a couple of Greg's boys already anyways.

Brock having to cut 10 to 15 pounds is no big deal when his opponents do too, like Mir and Carwin did, but it does make a difference when you're burning energy trying to cut weight and your opponent is already at his optimal weight.

Finally... relax. It's just the internet. No need to get all feisty over people who don't even know you exist.

15 pounds is nothing to Brock, he could lose that in just a work out.

No, but Brock is a natural 285 pounds and the heavyweight limit is 265.
Mir and Carwin gained weight for their last fights.

What the fuck!? That's not true at all. Carwin was like 15 pounds over the week and a half before the weigh in for Lesnar.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mma/news?slu...arcarwin063010

There's even mere on an audio interview talking about CUTTING DOWN to 245 for the UFC 100 Lesnar fight and then GAINING for 107.

http://mmahits.com/news/frank-mir-i-...-lesnar-fight/

He punched himself out like brawlers do? Forrest griffin, bonnar, liddell, roy nelson (who you think is a top conditioned heavyweight) are all brawlers who dont tire out. Carwin suffered an adrenaline dump from his style CAPITALIZING on lesnar, he just didnt finish.

Your putting anderson silva in higher regards as a trainer than greg jackson? Silva is a talent and hes beating great people but hes not doing that because hes an amazing analyst or even has that in his corner. My god watch his fights. Hes simply a counterpuncher and look what happens when he gets someone who wont engage him or who has great takedowns... He looked like he had the perfect gameplan for sonnen.

Do you even know what fighters train with jackson??


Clearly you know nothing at all about cutting weight so your view is not that unexpected, but in a day before weigh in where you get 24 hours to hydrate and rest your body, a 10-15 maybe 20lb cut on a 280 lb man will not affect him at all.

The fact that he will be 15-20 lbs over the weight come fight time is a huge advantage for him come fight time especially because dos santos is going to have to deal with that weight.

Technically its true on both accounts.... mir gained a shit ton for his fight with kongo and kept it on for the carwin fight. Carwin started to lean up a bit and lost a buch of weight and started to put it back on for the lesnar fight.

Mir never had to actually cut to make 265 where carwin ended up needing to for the lesnar fight

1) :rofl: You can't be fucking serious saying Carwin crapped out because of an adrenaline rush. Don't be a mark. I've yet to hear any of the great fighters claim they blew their load in the first round due to an adrenaline rush. You think he's the first guy to ever go out aggressive in the first round of a fight? You think he's the first guy to ever try to capitalize on a wounded opponent and not be able to finish him off in the first round?

2) Do YOU even know what fighters train with Greg Jackson? Pretty sure Nate Marquardt is one of those boys I said Silva beat the shit out of. If YOU knew who he trained maybe you would have thought twice about that comment.

3) Chael Sonnen has a good showing and now, Anderson Silva, who has won 13 straight is simply a counterpuncher. And you expect to be taken seriously by relegating one of the greatest MMA fighters of all time to the status of counterpuncher? GTFO.

Cain Velasquez is gonna work Brock like a government mule, Brock is gonna tire, and Cain is gonna get the win.

Adrenaline dump. The after effects, not the actual rush. Also, Silva's main weapon is counter punching. Granted he's great at pretty much everything, but he counter punches like a motherfucker.
Hard to say. I doubt Cain will KO him at any point, but I can see it going to the 4th or 5th round in a close fight before either of them gains a significant upper hand.

Are you kidding? youve never heard the term adrenaline dump? It happens a lot, but usually a fighter can get past it. Carwin could not and Brock was too smart to let him.

Fuck it even happened to me in a fight but luckily i finished before the round came to close.

WOW hahahaha

GSP, Rashad Evans, Shane Carwin, Jon Jones, Donald Cerrone, Leonard Garcia, Keith Jardine, Nate Marquart, Clay Guida, Joe Stevenson, Brendan shaub, and Carlos Condit.

Yes he has won 13 strait victories by simply being a counterpuncher.

This isnt just because sonnen almost beat him, this is because of how he fights and what hes done in the cage. Anyone who has watched his fights would know that though... luckily I have. Let me educate you.

UFN5 against Chris Leban who runs right at you swinging, and played right into anderson's game and KOed Leban

UFC 64 Rich frankin came at him with his unorthodox style and anderson picked him apart

UFC 67 Travis Lutter was actually able to bring anderson to the ground where he mounted him and dominated him, then in the second round took him down again but got tired and caught in a triangle.

UFC 73 Marquart Trying to bring him down but his wrestling isnt good enough, gets tagged coming in, anderson then pounds him out on top.

UFC77 Rich Franklin again, same story

UFC 82 Dan Henderson takes him down in the first, and then throws a haymkaker in the second and gets counter punched, then silva jumped on him.

UFN 14 James Irvin throws a kick that is caught by anderson and then dropped with a cross

UFC 90 Patrick Cote employs a strategy to hang back and make anderson come to him, it doesnt happen. Anderson will not aggressivly engage. Cote blows out his knee taking a step.

UFC 97 Thales Leites again doesnt engage the whole fight. Anderson will not go after him or go to the ground with him. Only wants to counterpunch

UFC 101 Forrest Griffin comes right at him and falls flat on his face

UFC 112 Demian Maia doesnt engage the first three, anderson wond go after him, last two demian is aggressive, anderson decides to dance

UFC 117, Sonnen has the proper takedowns to get anderson down and control him and does. He makes a mistake in the fifth and anderson capitalizes. Even his fucking submissions are counters.


And by the way, theres nothing wrong with being labeled as just a counterpuncher. Thats like taking away from tyson in his prime by saying hes only a power puncher.

Seriously dude stop being a mark and actually read up or know what the fuck you comment on... men are talking here little boy

Velasquez vs. Lesnar is such a hard fight to pick because both fighters are so new in their careers and add new wrinkles to their game every time they go out.

Who knows how good both of them can be, and who knows how good both of them will be when they fight. We're talking about two guys who have a combined 14 fights in MMA and have a combined 7 years MMA experience under their belts. They're both around 4 years in and for most mixed martial artists that's just when they start to come into their own.

The scary thing is we've probably only seen a glimpse at how good these two can be they're so new to the sport.

I just think Cain is the better overall fighter, Brock is very one dimensional, and looks really uncomfortable on his feet. I think Cain can KO Brock, maybe not with one punch, but he could definetly pummel him into submission. Brock is going to have a hard time getting that double leg on Cain, who is faster, and more agile, and probably the better wrestler in terms of using it in MMA. Brock has mammoth size and wrestling, with freak athletism for a man his size, but that only goes so far. Cain is certainly the more well rounded fighter, and more skilled overall. If Cain can avoid getting pushed around, and can control the pace standing, it could be a very long night for Brock.

I think Brock walks right through him. He's that good and only getting better.

I don't think he's "that" good. He relys on size, and his wrestling. His submission game is weak, despite choking out Carwin. His ground and pound is weak compared to others in the sport, and really it's not even average. If you think Brock walks through Cain, you have a surprise coming at 121. Brock is the to the heavyweight division what Matt Hughes was to the Welterweight division circa 05. A big, strong, dominant wrestler, who used his wrestling to control the fight and oppanents. Eventually someone is going to stuff his takedowns, and then Brock is left with nothing expect maybe swinging for the fences. Look at guys like Hughes and Ortiz as examples of what happens when everyones else wrestling catches up.

I know who can beat Lesnar.

i love Brock, but i got Cain on this one. He doesnt have the power of Carwin, but he is a much more accurate striker. Cant say i see him KO'ing Lesnar, but i think it'll be a grind and come down to who has the cardio.

I wouldnt say his ground and pound is weak at all...

I didn't mean weak power wise, I mean't weak in terms of skill and technical prowess.

well he tied mir into a pretzel before pounding him out so whether that was technical or not it was impressive

Yeah but Mir can't wrestle for shit.

I don't get why everybody shits on Lesner? Is it because he's a dick who made fame and fortune in the WWE?

people kill me with this 'brock is one dimensional' shit. Before the last fight who would've called him tapping somebody? NONE OF YOU FUCKERS. he works his ass off...and he only shows what he has to. until somebody makes him work, why not stick to the vanilla formula.

not true... as long as he is on top and in control, I can totally see him tapping anyone especially with the type of move he used.

now watch out if he cant take someone down right away, because while he works his ass off, he is not comfortable on his feet at all.

he's gonna beat velasquez by head kick followed by shooting star press.

Brock is gonna beat cain via anaconda squeeze. He has been training with nacho libre.

This is such a hard fight to pick, and a dangerous fight for Brock Lesnar. Is it more dangerous than Shane Carwin? I don't know, Cain is a machine and a great wrester with perhaps the best ground and pound going. Is he a better wrestler than Brock Lesnar? I don't know, perhaps but Brock does seem to have a big size and strength advantage. I think if the fight does go the distance then it will be in Cain's corner, but more than likely I think Brock will submit him with a guillotine from the bottom in round 2 or 4.

I am not counting Cain out, I don't want him to win but I think he has a damn good chance. He is an amazing fighter but my instinct tells me that fighting a freak like Brock isn't going to go in his favor.

I could see this fight looking a lot like Lesnar's fight against Herring. Except that Cain will be more dangerous and will have an extra two rounds to catch Lesnar.

You kow you're saying that to an MMA champ, right?

Someone post the videos plz.

lol of all the posters here to say that to.

This post wasn't really directed at you, with actual fight/game planning experience... But you're right. If G N P can't do the job from mount, then you should be able to pop over for at least a head and arm choke.

Brock isn't comfortable on his feet, but he's progressed so far. There isn't any reason to indicate that he won't be better in Brocktober (I'm a marketing mark) than he was vs Carwin. Now that doesn't mean that he'll be good enough to trade with Cain.

God, it's a great time to be an MMA fan!

You know going for the finish is simply a ko or sub, not actually killing or opponent or a "fatality" if you will

reavant is a champion now?

have been for over a year... its kinda bs but yea

"Adrenaline dump" is an MMA term but a real thing, but it shouldn't be happening to a professional fighter at the highest level, it's still a form of gassing at the end of the day. It suggests he hadn't prepared or warmed up properly, or he was absolutely terrified. To me it just looked like Carwin punched himself out. He threw a lot of punches without doing a substantial amount of damage.

i'm sure it's real but probably overused as an excuse when fat cunts who didn't put in the work gas themselves out. or it could just be viewed as that period before you get your second wind, although ideally you'd be going into the fight on your second wind already i think.

i looked it up :cool: nice. are you still amateur then? what's the plan? also how much do you weigh in at?

I think in many other fights, the number of undefended punches Carwin landed on the floor may have seen it stopped. As it was, he got excited and gassed himself out throwing too many crap punches, instead of picking out good ones.

brock was still intelligently defending himself. it looked a close call at the time but in retrospect it was right to let it go on, and not because brock won.

K, I am not one to doubt Lesnar at all. If you don't believe it, look it up. Listen carefully now, Brock is good and all, but Carwin tired himself the fuck out going Donkey Kong on Lesnar. Lesnar said himself in the post fight interview that he waited for Carwin to tire, so relax buddy.

exactly, he went to capitalize and went ballistic. Throwing a ton of punches and being extremely active. Carwin may have very well been in fantastic shape however you need a lot of oxygen to go to all those muscles he has, and if you deprive them of that for too long and exert yourself that hard during the time your not taking air in, your muscles are going to shut down just like they did.

yes. duno yet have a job thats putting fighting on hold. 265

had brock been in the same position as carwin and reacted the same way, he would have gassed as well.

are you actually 265 or just fight at that?

Reavent has always reminded me of Kane

He's got a lion mane now, so stick a mask on him and he might look like old school Kane.

that was Psycho Sid

i generally come down from above that

anyone been watching the UFC Primetime?

Lesnar's physique is even more impressive now. He seems to be getting better and better as time goes by

I read in the Matt Hughes book that Brock came into the Miletich gym, rolled around for a bit, did something wrong against gym etiquette, and Pat said "Hey we don't do that here!" He was never seen at that gym again. This was around 2005

Yea he looks great... he had to change his diet around after the sickness which is probably why he looks so lean

Great may not even be a good enough word, Seriously. In the first show, he was jumping rope, and I was just amazed at how put together he looked. This guy was never in bad shape! But his physique now makes his earlier days look like Brock the fatty

While I can respect the fact that he's a private guy, I really wish we could get a look at his diet, and what he's changed.

Agreed.

The only thing I can think of is that he cut down on his carbs. My guess is that as a professional athlete, his sugar intake way pretty low to begin with. His protein consumption has probably always been pretty high.

It's be interesting. I'd shit myself laughing if Brock came back talking about him becoming a vegan or some silly shit!

Got $100 on Brock..

He actually started eating more carbs like vegtables. He said his diet before consisted mainly of what he hunted so I imagine he had a higher cholesterol from all the red meat.

Brock should come out in full Conan garb. If anderson silva/gsp can come out in a GI

Brock should come out in a loin cloth with a fucking axe.

He should be carried by tiny Asians on a throne..

Fucking pumped.

*sticky*

Ya, tonight should be good. Good food, beverages and a great fight looms ahead :y:

Should prob change the name if you sticky. THERE ARE OTHER MATCHES ON THE CARD.

I want to see Tito vs Hamill myself. If Tito loses his career is over.

FINE SAVIOR

I always get caught up in how guys look at the weigh in as if that somehow is a crystal ball to the future.

For example I saw how shreaded Tito Ortiz looked at the weigh in I was like "Damn Tito is back!" and then I realize... no that's fucking stupid.

That isn't to say that Brock isn't in better shape than he has been in the past just I'm not sure if that's going to matter come tonight. This match is such a toss up. As I've said before these two are so new to fighting that its hard to say who will win because they'll both be totally different fighters come tonight than we've seen before. The newer a fighter is to the sport the less you can extrapolate from their previous fights.

Tito always looks shredded at the weigh-ins. Then he goes back to looking like a white gorilla

Really looking forward to the fight between Lesnar and Velasquez.

The UFC heavyweight division has come a long, long way in a few years.

lesnar has a beard... he will win. nuf said

How many hours till the event guys?

like 5

Anybody have a stream for the event?

Prediction: Brock Lesnar retains via Kurt Angle Run-in

Beards are for queers.

Reavant will pound your face in for saying that

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

got a good stream and some lasagna

Disagree, Cain wins after illegal shot from Bud-Light bottle.

Alright, it's show time!

lol they always say its "the biggest fight of all time"

cain velasquez is THE ULTIMATE WARRIOR

god dammit they closed all my working streams

Pretty good card.

HE GREASING!

wow that guy is a mongoloid

Jason is a twig

Saved by the bell!