Does anyone else think Bayley sucks?
 

I like her entrance/theme music but I don't get the hype at all. She has the worst finisher of anyone currently in WWE. Charlotte seems way better in the ring/on the mic than the rest of the entire women's roster tbh.

Bayley has a quirky charisma. She's a bit sloppy and awkward but she is magnetic in a great way. She has *it*

Then she should be Finn Balor's valet. Enough with this in-ring nonsense.

Nah, people want to pay to watch her work. That's nonsense.

She's a pretty good worker.

No more sloppy than Sascha Ms over rated for fucking days Banks (who is still decent, just a total slopfest sometimes)

Let her be an in-ring interviewer with her own segment, ala Miz/Jericho/Ko called "Hug it Out" so she can still have her big entrance each week, but until she learns a better finisher she should be banned from wrestling in the ring.

Like how am I supposed to take her seriously...It would be like James Ellsworth defeating Braun Strowman with the worm. Charlotte just seems like she is on a different level than all the other women they have, in-ring and on the mic.

Sasha sucks too, but sucks less than Bayley and I like her character more. Charlotte is the only female wrestler other than Alexa Bliss, Mickie James, Becky Lynch and Asuka who seems "good" tbh. I guess Nia Jax could get there if she goes the Braun route. Naomi was on track but seems "not as good" as she used to be for some reason.

Women's rasslin is terrible. They should be valets and posing in playboy. That's about it.

TV-MA Divas ONLY

Maryse was a good champion, un-retire Maryse ASAP please

Sable was a better wrestler than Bayley too. See below:


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her hair makes me think of a person with down syndrome

I'm pretty sure that was supposed to be her gimmick initially.

She should be called Eugina then

I agree with most of what has been said earlier. She has charisma but that's about it. You can tell she works hard and is trying her best, but she's super awkward. I disagree and actually like her finisher, it's kind of different.
The problem with her is I actually don't think she's an athlete. Sure, she has trained to be a wrester, is probably strong because you have to be to be a wrestler. I'm sure she's a gym rat. But I really really don't think she is an athlete. You can tell if somebody is an athlete by the way they move and she moves like an elementary school teacher who has never played a sport.

Pretty much all women wrestlers are sloppy and awkward in the ring. I don't know than she's any more sloppy than the rest.

LOL jesus!

Triggered

Sounds like you've got way too much of a boner for Charlotte to have any sort of objective opinion on anyone else. :p

Nah, but seriously I think you're just not in the right demographic for her, and that's fine. One of the great things about wrestling in the past was that you had tons of different characters to choose from so there was something for everyone. Nowadays everyone is the same cookie cutter personality, and while you might like that specific personality many others don't.

Bayley appeals to a younger audience and to people like her who have always just wanted to have fun with life and live their dreams. If you can't relate to that fair enough, but to say that she shouldn't be there just because you don't personally like her act is a bit childish. And, yes, I'm aware of the hypocrisy in that statement with how much I hate on Roman Reigns, but in the end it's the truth.

As for her finisher being "the worst" um, do I need to remind you of all the shit finishers and signature moves wrestling has had over the years? The Worm, the People's Elbow, the Empire Elbow, any elbow drop move in general that's not off the top rope honestly, the Cobra, the Mandible Claw, the Styles Clash, the Atomic Leg drop, etc, etc. I mean hell, even Cena's finisher is just a standing fireman's carry. I fail to see why that gets a pass but a belly to bell suplex doesn't.

Honestly don't really like Sasha's character. Terrible promo

Bayley reminds me of TV PG John Cena and she always has that annoying kid in the audience who likes her, Izzy.

WWE should release her and bring back Blood and Chairshots and Thumbtacks and Barbed Wire. If Kevin Owens was around ten years ago he would be wrestling in hardcore matches instead of "people in shark cages" matches.

a wrestling match against an actual shark

No one even used the shark cage as a weapon. Lame.

Sasha's character is waaaay better suited to being a heel honestly. That's the biggest problem with her right now. It's like when they tried to play off Del Rio as a face despite still having the same character of "rich Mexican". The whole point of the character was that he was a stuck up aristocrat who hated Americans and then you take the exact same guy and just have him wear a t-shirt and expect people to latch on. It just doesn't work. Sasha is essentially playing a Kanye West/generic modern hip hop star, and that sort of person generally isn't well liked by most people, especially not the general audience that watch wrestling.

basically this

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Best post ever LOL

Yeah, rap is crap

Bayley is boring. She should be called Borely.

Borely to Borely suplex

Don't have time to read this whole thing, but yes, I do. Agree with the assessment that she has a charisma that allows her to connect with people, which is really important, but she's a female Zack Ryder.

I'm still bitter she cut off Becky Lynch's story to beating Sasha Banks, and while her ascension in NXT was charming and a wonderful story, you cannot exactly tell it again on the main roster. People have seen Bayley. Main roster WWE is also a much more stoic place. She'll have to survive without every other week being dedicated to the next well calculated block in her personal story. She's going to have to get used to filler, no-selling her losses and not relying on momentum to fuel her crowd reactions.

I was high on women's wrestling for a while, but it really is smoke and mirrors. A Diva is your SmackDown Women's Champion, the RAW Women's Title moves around about as much as the Hardcore Title did before they started changing it on house shows, the personalities are still hollow and one-dimensional and the only real star seems to be Charlotte. Sasha, Bayley and Becky are somewhat over, but I think people "like" them as opposed to truly believing in them.

If we didn't do this fucking brand split, we could be en route to a Clash of the Four Horsewomen at Mania this year. Charlotte vs. Sasha vs. Becky vs. Bayley in Orlando would be off the hook. Becky could have done her shit with Alexa and Mickie without a belt; Nia could still be finding her feet; Paige could still fuck up and fuck off; Emma could still be teased for months on end; Nikki could still do her Fearless shit, whatever that means; and Natalya could still be the veteran presence stretching people. And there would be one championship so people would still know who the best is. For people to care about a championship, I think they need to care about a division -- otherwise why does being the champion of that division mean anything? People do not care about the women's division, because 20% of the women on each roster holds a championship, and that is truthfully not much of an exaggeration. That's what being a Women's Champion means -- top 20th percentile. You'd be more over if you rolled a 1 on a die.

No but then again her biggest appeal was always her character and WWE rolled back too much of it for her call up. RAW's women's division isn't deep enough to repeat the same storyline rise she had in NXT which is why she should have been called up before the Draft if that was their plan.

Also doesn't help the WWE only cares about Charlotte for RAW in terms of focus and stardom which has hurt the division for the brand.

Noid being a massive Debby Downer over here. Seriously though, what you just said applies to the entire WWE, not just the women's divisions. Literally none of the titles mean jack, no one is used properly, and there are no stars except those that should have burnt out a long time ago. Not sure how you can be so down on the women's division and not feel the exact same for the men at this point.

Bayley is uglier than Nicole Bass. Ew.

She is inoffensive and you can see why young girls like her. She is a light hearted, fun character.

But if the division was more well rounded, she wouldn't be anywhere near the title. Charlotte is not the finished article, but is lightyears ahead of Bayley in every department. It isn't believable to me as a fan that Bayley would beat her tbh.

It would be like Mojo Rawley beating John Cena for the Universal title

I like Bayley...... I think some of her gear (especially the jackets) are ugly as hell, though.... cringeworthy...... I know they are trying to make it seem like "she had no help from her parents making her costume", but there is a way to do that without it being so fugly.

Also Bayley just naturally has a weird speaking voice, not much can be done about that.

Charlotte really is miles ahead of all those biatches though. But it's not fair, as she is a Flair... to be fair to Flair.

Does anyone else remember The Kat vs Terri Runnels from WrestleMania 2000?

Part of it is also due to the constant air-time she gets which has helped her improve a lot in the ring and in promo skills. RAW is pretty much how the women's division was handled pre-brand split with almost all the focus being on just the champ vs challenger du jour feuds.

Nikki Bella and AJ Lee showed the same jumps in improvement when they had a lot of time as champ or as the focus of a division.

But they didn't do dat moonsault

Nope fuck this thread. Bayley is great. Boo Slik! Boo!

Charlotte will go down as the goat

Knew this was coming.

Good.

EXACTLY. Fuck slik and all the other Batley haters!

And may I point out that she should NOT have been the last of the Four Horsewomen to be in a title feud and win the title (which she will @WM33 -- kiss my ass, haters), although it probably owes to two injuries right before she was originally supposed to be called up twice. But I shall be patient, for I know her journey will culminate in probably a 4-5 month title run after WM 33.

Can't stand Bailey either. Didn't like her in NXT and she hasn't impressed me any on Raw. I get that she's supposed to be this super fan turned superstar but She comes off like a female Eugene only not retarded. Charlotte, Sasha, Becky, and Alexa are all miles ahead of her.

I bet Bayley does suck good. Probably hugs it after she's done.

I must have been black out drunk but I kindof remember Bayley getting the pop of the night at NXT Brooklyn. Everybody on their feet celebrating the match of the fucking year? I was drunk but I wasn't black out drunk.

So, I repeat fuck off.

STD and Wishbone get it.👍

My 85 year old grandpa who recently ordered the network and loves NXT and Cruiserweights because "those guys actually fight" hates Bayley. I guess her gimmick doesn't translate to the senior demographics.

Whoa, Bayley might be overrated, but there is no way Alexa Bliss is leaps and bounds ahead of her. Let's just get that ironed out.

She also sends mixed messages. On one hand, women in WWE are supposed to be sexualized, but on the other, she acts like a child.

Am I the only one that doesn't think Bayley is actually being built for a RAW Women's Title run? I can honestly see them abandoning ship and maybe sticking her in a "women's mid-card" feud with Sasha Banks. I think Nia Jax is going to be higher priority, despite being far less skilled, and ultimately, I think Emmalina becomes a star in the division. I can see Dana Brooke turning on Charlotte and backing up Emmalina in a televised title match, and then Charlotte is the babyface chasing. I don't know when that will happen, but I think her credibility is going to be used to segue her into the top babyface position in the division, because Vince feels that Sasha is "too breakable" and Bayley "too annoying."

Isn't that her whole gimmick?

Yeah, but I can see that being why a lot of older people think it is weird and annoying.

Her whole "aww shucks" and "I deserve to be here" thing is pretty bland.

She has sloppy looking tits, a saggy ass and a face that deserves to be smashed with a frying pan. Get that digesting slug off my television!

Yuck, Bayley is a 2/10 at best

Charlotte sucks as a face, dude. She's perfect as the "I'm better than you" heel, but her face run in NXT and her run in PCB were both really bad in my opinion. Besides that she's literally the top heel in the women's division and one of the top heels in the company period. I seriously doubt that they'll turn her face anytime soon, especially when the only options to replace her are Nia and Emmalina.

On the topic of Emmalina, that ship has sailed. Emma's dead in the water and to think otherwise is just foolish. Her momentum died a long time ago, and bringing her in as a generic "model" type is just going to ruin it further. I'm sorry but in the same way that many of you seem unable to buy Bayley as a legit threat I feel the same way about Emma. Her image has been damaged way too much to ever make her of any real worth at this point, and giving her this gimmick is not going to do her any favors as it'll just make her a copycat of what made the Diva's division so bland.

Finally I think you hit the nail on the head when you said that many older fans just don't get it, and that's kinda the point. Wrestling as it is now is not meant for older fans. As many here have attested you're all in or around your 30s. WWE just isn't meant for you guys. I'm in my mid 20s, but I'm also very much into nerdy things and I work with children on almost a daily basis so for me this stuff still clicks at times. For you though I imagine it's like trying to watch modern cartoons while having the mentality of a mainstream "full grown adult." You don't get it because you're just "too old," and I don't mean that as an insult but just as a general observation.

You're probably right. But the problem is that, as 30-somethings in the 2010's, we've seen plenty of good "kids"/"family friendly" movies and TV shows that are capable of appealing to adults. And it's not that hard to accomplish in wrestling.

Wrestling in its most basic form is appealing to kids. You don't have to put in any work. It's violence, loud noises, paint-by-numbers comic book-style good vs. bad stories, and bright lights. The work is done. If you actually write compelling storylines and make the characters interesting, you won't alienate the kids. You'll keep them all while ALSO drawing in adults. But WWE seems to be content with not putting in the work to do that. Partially because they've got a small but passionate audience of adults who are willing to stick with it to the bitter end because they grew up addicted to this form of entertainment and can't flip over to WCW anymore.

I'd agree completely with a lot of what you just said. However, it feels like you guys are putting more emphasis on the characters being the issue when in reality it's the storytelling and presentation that are the problem. Bayley's character could work just fine if she was booked right, put in compelling stories, and actually portrayed in the right manner. Hell, even someone like Roman Reigns could be good if you did that. A great example is Bray Wyatt who as a character and talent is great, but because of the way WWE uses him he's utter shit. It has nothing to do with his character but is all on WWE for not understanding or caring how he should be used. I've said it in the past and I'll say it again, I honestly believe you could build a star (in relative terms) out of anyone. Had Zack Ryder been handled right he would still be useful today. Not world champion material, but he could have easily been one of the top mid-card babyfaces in the company. My point is that the way you guys make it sound you're saying that characters like Bayley aren't worth keeping around or pushing, and that somehow by getting them out of the way you'd improve the product. But that's not the case. You could have nothing but characters that appealed to you on the roster and it'd still be shit if WWE didn't fix the issue with the writing and booking. That stuff is the key. I'd be willing to bet money that if they did it right even you'd be cheering on Bayley or even Roman Reigns.

I think she was great in NXT but has been bad in WWE. Like her matches were really good in NXT, I think... but for some reason they have mostly been bad in WWE, imo. I don't know why. Maybe whoever "books" the spots in the matches in WWE sucks or something.

Like that one Bayley vs. Sasha Banks match at an NXT TakeOver a while ago was considered to be "match of the year" by a bunch of people. Shasha Banks's matches have also not been that good in WWE imo.

I don't think anyone is saying she shouldn't be around and I don't think she needs to be "fixed.". Her presentation is actually good as she is being presented towards kids. I don't think she has been booked poorly at all as she appeals to a demographic. The problem is that gimmick doesn't come across as a credible threat to the championship, nor does her actual abilities. She just isn't very good in the ring or the mic at this point in time. Maybe she will get better in time but should be no where near the main event and championship.

Maybe this is true. I don't watch NXT, I have seen like half an episode. If she was having great matches there but can't translate to the main show something is wrong with the WWE. A good wrestler should be able to put on a good match anywhere any time, I believe she is a "wwe" trained wrestler so she knows exactly how they want her to work so she should have a leg up. So far I see an awkward non athlete trying to wrassle.

In response to Stickman:

First and foremost her presentation is most certainly not good. She's not getting anywhere near the treatment she did in NXT. Instead they've thrust her onto the main roster and just keep telling everyone "look at Bayley! She's from NXT and is great! Cheer for her!" Of course this issue applies to 99.9% of the call-ups these days. WWE just seems to think that all of their fans watch NXT and thus think that they can skip all the character building and just portray these characters "as is" to the masses. If you tell Joe Schmoe "this girl is great" and immediately thrust her into the main event without context of course he's gonna reject it as you have perfectly shown.

WWE needs to stop treating NXT as a part of the main roster's canon. I get why they do it, and for people who watch it regularly it's cool, but the fact of the matter is the majority of people don't watch NXT, and to present these wrestlers as if people should already know who they are is just ignorant as all hell. Bring back vignettes. Hell, tell some stories over again if you have to on the main roster. The idea that you can't do so is just stupid when in reality the vast majority of fans would never have seen said stories in the first place. Of course none of that matters if the writing is still shit which is the case on the main roster, but it'd be a start.

Another issue is that Bayley definitely HAS been hindered on the main roster, as have many other NXT alumni. As you pointed out yourself that too is a WWE problem and not an issue with the talent. I'm not sure what's going on on the main roster that's causing this, but almost everyone has been drastically hindered in their in-ring work once making the jump from NXT to RAW or Smackdown. Even Sasha and Charlotte have had this issue.

I get what you are saying and agree. I do miss the days when they allowed characters to develop. It amazes me how they have hree long hours for Raw and don't do vignettes or really make you invested in a talent. I think they have done more with Bayley than a lot of other, better, talent. They've pretty much pointed out on the main show she was a wrestling fan her whole life and has always wanted to be a wwe wreslter. They portrayed her kind of as a nerdy, super fan who is just happy to be there and kids can look up to her cuz she made it, and she is a nice person who hugs it out. That is way way more than they have done for almost anybody.

Fair point, but pointing out her character traits really means nothing without actually seeing them develop organically. If you were reading a book or watching a movie would a single page or scene listing off a character's traits really be enough? I mean if we just got a scene with a narrator saying "this is Tony Stark. He is an alcoholic who lost his parents and once escaped terrorists who used his weapons to cause harm which lead to him being Iron Man" would you really be invested? It works far better in the movies because we actually get to see all those things actually happening. Exposition really isn't a substitute for actual storytelling. Still you're right about them doing more for her than many, but you can see how doing just that small amount has helped her quite a bit. She gets pretty good reactions all things considered, and given the crowds we often see I'd say she's doing pretty well on the merchandise front as well. Now imagine if she'd had an organic rise ala Daniel Bryan. She's not as talented as Bryan mind you and I'd never claim such, but she could easily reach far greater heights with that same sort of storytelling, as could anyone for that matter.

Hated Bayley before. But she is growing on me but that is because she is better than Sasha.

Not fair to compare anyone to Charlotte though. Of course she is better. Honestly, SD and Raw have it soo right with their champions. Bliss is the best, only by a little, on SD and Charlotte is just miles better than everyone on both rosters.

I don't get this massive boner everyone has for Charlotte. I mean she's damn good, don't get me wrong, but she's not nearly as far ahead of everyone as y'all keep saying she is. You act like she's Stone Cold standing next to Roman Reigns or something and that's not even remotely accurate. Plenty of the women on the roster are extremely talented right now, especially when compared to previous generations of WWE's women's talent.

People just want to act like she's the second coming of Trish Stratus just because she's already held the title 4x and learned how to cut amazing promos from daddy dearest, but it's just not true.

All female face characters are dumb and redundant. 'Ive trained so hard and now I finally made it"

Feud with charolette is dumb too, "you are a fan of wrestling, what a loser"

They should go back to Diva pillow fights. The kind of stuff they did when people cared about Women's wrestling.

She is like Seth Rollins and everyone else is X Pac.

Now you crossed a line. Sable was shit always has been shit and further more https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-r9JpzKiHB...ock-lesnar.png

Ohhhhhhhhh fuccc.......


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Nah, she's really not. You keep on telling yourself that though. Maybe if you believe hard enough it'll come true. :lol:

We weren't talking about her looks. Still not even close.

Okay? I guess everyone besides you and Merc are wrong.

When you make objective statements based solely on your own opinion you most certainly are wrong. If you prefer Charlotte that's fine, but to say she's objectively "leaps and bounds" ahead of everyone else is just outright false.

So my statements are false? Which mean yours are correct? But making these statements on opinions (which is all this is) isn't right? Do you understand? Probably not but it's there for you to figure out.

Charlotte is the queen.

She's all right. Not nearly as good as the other 4 Horsewomen, but she has the ability to connect to the audience. I bet she sells more merch than any other woman on the roster other than the Bellas. Just for that alone she should stick around

I disagree. Her face run in NXT was pretty good by the end. In fact, Charlotte/Sasha was fueled on the emotion of Sasha being a heel trying to take that belt off her. It's hard to find babyface champions that can carry as well as Charlotte. But that was NXT, and I agree that she sucked as a babyface in PCB. But then again, Sasha and Bayley suck as babyfaces on the main roster too. What are you to do? Push the girl that people believe in.

You point out that Nia and Emmalina are the only ones who can replace her -- those are the girls that are going to be getting pushes on RAW very soon, I hate to break it to ya. If they are getting heel pushes, Charlotte as a babyface makes more sense, not less.

I don't really know what you mean about the Emmalina momentum stuff. She hasn't debuted yet. They're running up the time on her impending return, but that is keeping things on ice until they are ready to have her show up. I don't really see how you can evaluate her momentum at this point -- she's not even back with this new gimmick yet. Wait and see how she is presented and what they do with her. Will they fuck it up? Probably. But I don't think you can say "Nah, she's done" before they have even debuted her and put her over anyone.

The thing is that girls like Nikki Bella, Alicia Fox, Alexa Bliss and Carmella are still around. We still have Divas. A girl who can make that their gimmick is going to thrive over them all. That's where the heat is -- a girl who embraces the old tropes of women's wrestling that the new girls are trying to move away from. It makes her the adversary of women's wrestling. It's why Eva Marie was getting so much heat. Emmalina could potentially be like Eva Marie except with wrestling skill. I'd have her come out and declare herself Divas Champion, fuck it. You are still marketing Divas with Total Divas after all.

They can book to children all they want, but they're mainly watched by older men. Kids don't actually go for the shit they are putting forward. This is just my anecdotal experience versus yours, but just because you put a girl in bright colors and have her spout affirming messages doesn't mean that kids are going to think it is "cool." That's condescending and assumes that children can't handle depth and nuance.

The difference is that Charlotte can survive the shit they throw at her. She's not lost because they don't have the same handle on what they want to achieve on the main roster as in NXT. On the main roster, they want products; not processes. Charlotte, as a product, is probably as close as you are going to get towards a complete package for a women's wrestler in the modern era. As packages, Bayley and Sasha ran thin very quickly. VERY quickly. They have also both been exposed when they have had to improvise and actually work as opposed to having very thoroughly choreographed matches. Both work hard and aren't talentless, don't get me wrong, but they've had their hand held through becoming relative stars in NXT. Good booking helped with that, but when that booking is removed they are kind of deer in the headlights.

Bayley was already selling more merchandise than any of the other women were when she was in NXT though. It'll be interesting to see if she sells more now that she has an even wider presence, or whether her persona peters out.

Okay, I'll bite. How exactly is Charlotte objectively "leaps and bounds" better than the rest of the roster. Please enlighten me. You can see based on their actual work that Charlotte is definitely better than most of the other women, but where is this stat that says she's so far ahead? I've been watching pretty much every week since she premiered on the main roster and I haven't seen anything that indicates this, but maybe I missed it somewhere. Please enlighten me.

On Charlotte we'll have to agree to disagree. I thought her entire face run in NXT came off as forced and just... meh. I mean it was better than the PCB nonsense, but that's not saying much. Sasha I'd also agree has been pretty bleh as a face in general. Her gimmick and character are just better suited to being a heel. Bayley's been about as fine as you can be as a face on Monday Night RAW though. I mean, yeah, she's sucked, but that's a show-wide issue. All things considered she's doing relatively well thus far. Could have used with waaay more build before her title feud though, but that was never gonna happen anyway.

Um, you're the one that pointed those two out as replacements. I never said anything about replacing Charlotte, and in fact I think the idea of replacing her is silly. She's the perfect top heel for the division hands down. Why mess with a good thing? Nia isn't ready, and even when she is ready she's got a built in ceiling because quite frankly monsters are always just obstacles for heroes. She'll never be the top heel in the company. She'll be that monster that the triumphant face overcomes, or the bruiser the real top heel like Charlotte hires as muscle.

On the topic of Emma. She's got no momentum. You act like people are just gonna forget about all the previous stuff she's done. You act like she'll just be starting with a new slate and that's just not true. She's still gonna be Emma to the masses and no amount of fake model nonsense is gonna change that. Bray Wyatt managed to do it but that's because he is just a genius at his craft. How many others have been repackaged in this way after such a mediocre career and actually succeeded? Remember Tensai? That was years of absence and it still didn't work. People aren't that forgetful despite what the WWE seems to believe these days. I will agree that that sort of gimmick could work pretty well, but Emma isn't the one to do it though. Also I think you're giving way too much credit to Eva Marie's heat. She wasn't getting heel heat, dude, she was getting "get the hell off my tv" heat.

Finally on the last topic. Um, it doesn't really matter if there are more grown men watching (though I'd like to see some actual evidence of this statement.) The fact of the matter is kids are the ones buying the merchandise and making WWE their money. The smarks and dirty old men like us aren't where the money's at. If we were WWE would abandoned PG and start listening to our misguided cries for a return to the attitude era. I've seen countless guys on this forum say how embarassed they'd be to wear a wrestling shirt in public. Meanwhile I've seen dozens of kids rocking backpacks, shirts, and god knows what else without batting an eyelash. While WWE is slipping it's not because they're marketing to the wrong demographic, it's because they're just inept at making their product. Also I'm a bit insulted that you'd accuse me of thinking kids can't handle nuance and depth when I've been a major proponent and defender of the ability of children in the past on this very forum. Saying that Bayley's gimmick or any other gimmick isn't capable of having depth is the truly insulting statement, especially when your alternative is a model gimmick and turning the prototypical "I was born better than you" character into a good guy. All of these gimmicks are capable of depth, but not the way WWE is handling them. It has nothing to do with the gimmick and everything to do with presentation and writing. Both of which WWE is completely inept at.

No one is surviving on the main roster. You're acting as if you think WWE right now is actually working. The fact that Charlotte hasn't completely sunk yet isn't a victory, it's just softening a defeat. She's still never going to be a real star because wrestling right now is pure shit. Even guys like AJ Styles and Bray Wyatt who have all the abilities to be a star eventually get bogged down by the machine. No one is truly succeeding right now, and to say "well x is less bogged down by it" isn't really saying much at all. Under the current circumstances I guarantee the vast majority of past rosters would have flopped just as badly as the current ones are.

It is so obvious that Chorolette is way better than almost every other woman. If anybody thinks Sasha, Bayley, Bliss, Emma is close you don't get it. The one who is close wrestlingwise is Natalya, who also is a little sloppy and awkward when she moves. Charolette isn't clunky and awkward in the ring like women usually are which is impressive due to her height. To say she is floundering is rediculous.

Well, you already stated opinions don't matter and all this is is a discussion on opinions. Wresting does not really have facts because it's scripted.

You could count the amount of flops or clunky moves each woman wrestler does though
Charlotte is by far the smoothest one.

Her instagram is the only slight I could give to Charlotte. Does way too much stuff to point out she's playing a character. Kayfabe is dead but this level of exposure is still awkward and off-putting.

The women wrestlers now seem terrible. That Alexa Bliss bird is bangin but the rest have got nothing on the braids of old like Trish, Stacey, Torrie etc.

Bayley is prob the ugliest though.

They couldn't have a good match though and Trish wasnt as good as people remember.

Trish was really good. Also had the best female storyline ever with Mickie.