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To the Brits: What is the state of English wrestling?

I have become interested today in reading a whole lot about English Wrestling, from Joint Promotions, to LDN and 1PW etc... All over the place...

Can somebody explain to me the hierarchy in the English wrestling scene right now? What kind of crowd numbers do these promotions get? Do they have PPV deals? Is anybody making big money? Are there any English promotions that get ratings on level with WWE? Does traditional English Wrestling draw anymore?

I know we have several Indy guys from England with us on TPWW so any insight would be helpful.

I am looking at a lot of the websites and they all look pretty cheap for the most part, and the wrestlers look like average people. Is this normal?

1PW shuts & reopens under new ownership every other month.

I think FWA is the only moderately successful promotion here tbh

White T Crumpetton is a name you should look out for.

http://www.ukwrestlingexperience.co....desi%20maz.jpg

This was one Wiki as a premier company LOL

Weirdest bodies ever LMAO

PPV doesn't exist the same way it does I imagine it does in the States. The only wrestling ever on PPV here is WWE.

So yeah, what I mean was most of the companies seem to be little promotions getting crowds of 200 in a community centre.

I went to see one once in the Cheese and Grain in Frome, was alright.

lol Mark Impact is shit

Ah great. TNA has drug issues, but we've got child labour if Lewey Paradise is anything to go by.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSL (Post 3462011)

lol Mark Impact is shit

Save it for the shoot video, champ.

The only true "big" promotion left is LDN wrestling, as British wrestling hasn't been mainstream since the 1970s. All Star Wrestling tour nationally, but mostly as a seaside attraction, with some American "stars" imported to draw the crowds. The FWA was a big promotion at one point, fueled by Jody Fleisch and national exposure on the now-defunct Wrestling Channel but it folded and is now in the process of rebuilding. While not a British promotion, some British talent (notably Drew Galloway/McIntyre) have made a name for themselves in Irish Whip Wrestling, One Pro Wrestling draw (or at least drew at some point) decent crowds by packing the card with TNA/RoH talent but they only operate in Doncaster, and I'm not sure how financially healthy they are.

The rest is made up of various regional schools and promotions that tend to run in school gyms or working mens' clubs in front of little more than 100 people.

The production values of British wrestling shows is next to nothing, and most of the wrestlers are amateur or semi-pro, as well as a ripped body not being as crucial as it is Stateside so the look of the promotion is hard to sell to a casual fan of WWE or TNA.

I should also point out that no promotion has a television or PPV deal, Brits prefer boxing.

FWA are ahead of LDN in terms of looking like the top show, Alex is that much of a fruit (I mean that in a nice way)/personally involved that he'd probably half starve himself to death for the sake of the show. He has some legit 'ins' in the business as well. For what it is, the production values are great. He does enjoy coming out with some wacky stuff though, like audience insultingly stupid stuff at times. And the crowds aren't good for the most part. LDN draw nice crowds, keep their shows simple, promote heavily etc, kind of similar to All Star in that regard. Bagga hates everybody though so that can be a hindrance. All Star is the only place to make anything resembling money/a living, Dixon is probably the closest thing we have to a Vince McMahon but even that's a ridiculous comparison. 1PW are a bit of a joke, they change owners every 2 weeks. They're currently going through some kind of re-launch with new owners who look like they're going to start bringing in all the imports again, which is what killed the original and most 'famous' incarnation. Dunno, there's to much to talk about, I could ramble on and on and on.

Lewy Paradise looks like he needs cash for the high school prom badly.

Desi Crane and Lewy Paradise need to discover steroids.

I'm not really conscious at all of what the wrestling scene is like here these days - I've been to one show locally and that must have been at least 15 years ago. All I remember from that was an Undertaker rip off and "The Legend of Doom".

No one in the UK cares about wrestling these days, MMA is getting popular over here. Wish there were more promotions in Wales.

There's enough wrestling in Wales if you know where to look, Celtic are still running unfortunately, Ravenhill runs plenty of shows and he has some quality guys on but I'm not sure what he's calling his shows atm, there's another promotion I've seen knocking around calling themselves WWA that has appeared recently, I've come across a few of the guys on shows and training elsewhere and they aren't very good and I haven't heard of the rest of the them so they might not be up to much but shit wrestling is usually pretty entertaining/hilarious. I think Matt Vaughn started something under the name pureCATCH but I have no idea if or when they run and I think South Wales/SWCW is done.

CSL, you got videos?

I know there is Basix Wrestling and Britannia Wrestling in North Wales and All-Star usually promotes some events around North Wales.

FWA probably have the most readily available videos, they're always putting stuff up. I don't recommend watching actual matches unless it's in person because single or double camera setups tend to make the matches quite tedious to watch and it makes it look cheaper than it already is. But 'a look' at some of the better guys in terms of 'the big leagues':

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/m2JP4yizKfQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Probably the best guy in the country. Has his character bang on (you'd be surprised how many guys don't realize the importance of having an actual character) quality wrestler, 'gets it', doesn't do 2 millions move and 16 WWE finishers in a 7 minute match etc. Only problem is he's like 5'6. If he was a foot taller, he'd have been signed a long time ago.

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/VgOAIZoo6bg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Looks like a million dollars, ridiculously athletic, good wrestler, poor promos/mannerisms etc but you could probably have said the same kind of thing about Stu Sanders before he went and he's Wade Barrett now. Has worked on Smackdown, Velocity, some backstage segments on various tours over here, had tryouts etc. Wouldn't be surprised to see him go at some point.

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/XrPT32q55wk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Stone is the guy in the singlet, Moss the one with the body. Been rumours floating around for the longest time that Martin's been signed but he still hasn't gone so maybe he's got visa problems or he's working people etc. Plenty of 'the boys' high up 'the ladder' believe it though so dunno. He's quality, can't really say much more. Johnny Moss probably has the best body in the country and he drinks like he's working the territories in the 80's. 'Legit'. Both have had tryouts, Moss also worked a date on the most recent TNA tour against Jeff Jarrett.

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/tvdmfu7o3G0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Probably doing the best in terms of constant work out of all the British based guys that aren't All Star regulars atm along with Pac, multiple tours for Dragon Gate, worked the last TNA tour (including working with Jarrett, Angle and Matt Hardy on the first night. Bastard) works all over Europe and so on. Cruiserweight/X division type guy that actually looks the part unlike most guys doing that style over here (and there are lots of 'em)

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Ls6ADdHYvps" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Dave is a monster, a full on killer. Great wrestler, plays his character well, in good shape etc. Went to OVW for a few months at the request of somebody you've heard of. Can do ridiculous things like arabian moonsaults which are jaw-dropping to see for somebody his size. Only like 5'8 or something which seriously hampers his chances of getting signed, TNA would probably care less about that.

Others include RJ Singh (another of the few guys with excellent characters, has been going to the gym more lately ;)), Iestyn Rees (body), Joel Redman (body), Sha Samuels (great at everything, 'unique' look, amazing heel), El Ligero (might constantly have the best matches in the country, cruiserweight type guy that pretends to be a luchadore and does it brilliantly) Chris Andrews (body) Britani Knight (gorgeous, comes from a wrestling family) Vikki Skeeles/Verity Thomas (hot, got implants, green as but was in the right place at the right time, got signed before asking for her release) a bunch of All Star guys as well as Olly Brown/Monty Lynch and Tom Latimer/Kenneth Cameron in FCW etc etc. Most if not all have had tryouts/are known by WWE/TNA including the last 2 obv. There are others but not many worth much, far too many skinny guys in kickpads doing MOVEZ, guys that are just flat out smart marks who will never 'get it' posing as wrestlers, guys that look like the ones in the pictures posted up there, guys that appear almost out of nowhere looking like a million dollars and get tryouts, some get signed (Barri Griffiths/Goliath/Mason Ryan) or are utterly useless/just not ready/too inexperienced despite looking the way they do etc. It's a mixed bag leaning towards shit but we have some gold scattered throughout. Matches involving everybody I've mentioned are easily available online, just remember that I warned you about the aforementioned production values ;)

And Hade Vansen. Who appears to have literally dropped off the face of the earth since getting signed, having a vignette run for him on Smackdown and getting released about a week later.

And Dave Mercy obv. Rumour was that he'd been signed but Triple H felt his spot would have been threatened and quashed it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Outsider (Post 3462006)

So yeah, what I mean was most of the companies seem to be little promotions getting crowds of 200 in a community centre.

I went to see one once in the Cheese and Grain in Frome, was alright.

I've wrestled there quite a few times, mostly between 2004 and 2008. Any idea what show it was you saw?

IMO two of the UK's best companies are 4FW and CSF.

4 Front Wrestling supposedly run Europes only full-time wrestling school, where I trained for a while, and it's really good. Very good and efficient training. But I wasn't there long enough to get on any shows. I've been to some of their shows, and they're very 'high standard'. 97% of the wrestlers are muscular and ripped, and they're all very technical in the ring. 4FW also has a very professional looking website.

http://www.4fw-online.com/index.php

Combat Sports Federation is the company Dave Youell works for, and it's the company I started my training with way back in 2003. Again, I didn't get on any shows because training stopped where I was living, and was too far for me, and I had other things going on at the time. But I have been to many of their shows, and they're great. Really entertaining, with some awesome talent, and high production values.

http://www.csfwrestling.co.uk/index.htm

There was a great 'boom period' back around 2003/2004 where there were loads of wrestling companies around the UK. There were at least four or five within a one hour radius of me.

Yeah, 4FW are pretty bang on, really make an effort when it comes to production and their guys having characters/a gimmick and it works, so many shows around with generic wrestler A vs. generic wrestler B and they wonder why the crowd don't give a fuck. And yeah, they produce guys that look the part and 'can go'. It helps that Dave Sharp himself is the goods and has been around/worked with some top guys, 'no substitute for experience' and all that. They need a bit more 'exposure', not enough people see their shows although they've been picking up a bit of steam recently as far as I can tell.

Why does TNA get such good ratings in the UK? Almost as good as WWE or better!

And it seems like the UK needs a millionaire with a lot of crazy to come in and turn things around. What would that take? Are there any true English wrestling stars? Guys that could be a Cena or Hogan to a new company.

If I had the money I would do it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jordan X (Post 3465155)

Why does TNA get such good ratings in the UK? Almost as good as WWE or better!

All WWE TV is on Sky Sports, which costs at least £45 a month to have access to (since you also need to subscribe to at least one basic package as well), TNA until recently was on Bravo, which was a part of said basic package (£18 a month) until Bravo was canned by Sky, and is now on free to air television, so it's available to a much wider audience than WWE.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jordan X (Post 3465158)

It would take somebody with very deep pockets that is happy to lose a lot of money. And even then there's nothing close to a guarantee of success. And there are wrestlers that could do it but something on that large of a scale would mean being able to sign guys from overseas also. Well, that'd be a pre-requisite for any kind of success on that scale really.

Hey,

What I miss?

4FW have done a very good job around creating a very professional looking product. I did work for them ages ago, but no more. They run very close to my promotion (CSF) in Bristol, I'm not here to big them up as they don't have an online presence and generally we do family friendly non edgy shows.

I've worked for LDN a few times. Sanjay Bagga has got an excellent business model and very good training schools that produce decent talent for the shows he puts on.

Here's the thing about UK wrestling though.

There is no such thing as a 'draw' in the UK.

Good promoting gets in good crowds, bad promoting gets bad crowds. The draws are people who were on TV, so it's basically imports that bring in big crowds ala 1PW. It's not a sustainable model though. Too expensive to keep it up.

Don't get me wrong, there's loads of really good workers in this country, but. No one that a regular fan would see on a poster and just come because they are on it

I'm pretty sure when 4FW started up, didn't they come to CSF training in Devizes and were looking to 'steal' trainees or something?

I remember something about Andy being really pissed off with them for some reason or another. And that kinda contributed to why training no longer took place in D-town.

CSL, has Jay phoenix ever stolen your wallet?

Lol at Wade Barrett visiting Preston North End. Gordon Burns hasn't seen ROH which is a competitor sport.

Quote:

Originally Posted by thecc (Post 3471809)

CSL, has Jay phoenix ever stolen your wallet?

lol nah, he might have been busy being an MMA superstar.

Although I'm American, I like British wrestling. I remember watching guys like Marc Rocco, Fit Finlay, Dave Taylor, Steve Regal, and Tony St. Clair. Pure technique.

No Robbie Brookside?!?!?! :(