TPWW Forums - View Single Post - What was the point in HHH capturing the title?

**Ol Dirty Dastard** · 02-01-2016, 06:41 PM

Anyways... I will humour you (and myself, because I assume those are the only 2 people with any patience for this malarky).

Your arguments are dumb.

Look, I CANNOT and WILL not disagree with your assessment that this is a successful company and their successes should be celebrated.

However, much like the Simpsons or Saturday Night Live, this does not mean they are resting on their laurels and living off a name.

To have the name, and maintain the name is something special, you really need to have the "it" factor just as a brand and company. That's why if I met Vince McMahon I would shake that crazy fucking asshole's hand even though I kind of hate him. He is a badass motherfucker and to ignore that is idiotic (though I feel like I've gone through all of this with you before).

HOWEVER

It's not all about the bottom line.

This is why your arguments are retarded and most of us feel like you're maybe having a laugh at our expense.

When ratings drop, and it's consistent, and then all they do at best is get back to where they were before and just stay in that cycle constantly... it probably does not mean good things when it comes to the quality of what your product is on TV.

And you are right, RAW is at a disadvantage and is unique in that the second it lost all of that momentum it once had where it had Walking Dead Like Numbers it's not like it could go anywhere. It's the fucking wrestling flagship. Most t.v. shows, the cast can go "Okay we can still do okay in the ratings, but the show is going to be no where near as good as it was and we will just never have the traction we once did so let's say goodbye".

So instead the WWE has to rebrand and recreate the product effectively to keep fresh and relevant. It struggled greatly after the Hulkamania era, for a good 5-7 years, then was the Austin/Rock era which was a very successful rebranding. And every since that point, there hasn't been anything that "feels" revolutionary (you can argue with the quality all you want Nicky Boy, but the fact is, the bottom line was so great that Vince McMahon became a legit billionaire in that time and bought fucking WCW he was doing so well). The attitude era had its flaws, but the backbone of it was a fresh faced look at wrestling that was a far cry from the whimper that was the New Generation.

So yeah, WWE is probably not going to drop below 3 all that often, and they'll stay between 2.8-3.8 or whatever and the needle isn't really moving anywhere from there. That means they are not drawing in any new viewers. There is notadvance. There is no gain. It's just been like that for years. It's all status quo. And you know that. That's fine. Totally fine That's what works for Vince, and he can do what he has to do and the bottom line works for him. I get it, if I were Vince and liked things a certain way I would do things how I want, as long as it wasn't hurting my wallet too much.

However, just because we differ on the product does not mean it's hard to see its flaws.

It's bigger than the talent, it's how they are used. John Cena individually is massively successful. He is a phenomenon and I think will do well in movies when he finally makes that move. Cross over appeal, awesome charisma, good athlete, hard worker and all in all a smart guy. Some how, when you wanted this guy to be your flag baring face... yeah he did it and he gritted it out.... but he got booed at least 50% of the time. Yes the fans paid money to see him, and blah blah blah the bottom line, we get it. But, your main goal was to have this guy cheered out of the building, and instead he got trash thrown at him. You can maybe blame 5% of that on Cena for maybe decisions he didn't make with his character, but that just shows a huge flaw in the creative process to me.

You can give me nonsense about how Kids and women like him, and for sure I'm not going to argue that. Of course kids like him, kids like any pile of shit you throw at them. Kids also liked Steve Austin and so did adults. Same with Hulk Hogan. They didn't get booed out of the building during their height. As much as people like to blame fans for hijacking shows, if you give them something to cheer, they will cheer.

And now the same thing is happening with Roman Reigns. The fans are so inconsistent because they just don't know how to book this guy. Look, the kids and the women and the casuals they like the guy well enough, but he has to appeal to ALLLLLLLLL audiences, and those ppv shows with the tougher crowds take skill to win over. Just because he appeals to the kids and the women does not exclude him from being able to appeal to PPV crowds. Your top babyface should not ALWAYS get shit on at your big ppvs. If he was booked right, he wouldn't be booed senseless.

I'm not saying he's not "the guy", because honestly I think he deserves it after some of the shit he's been through. I'm saying, here is another symptom of a MEH product, the live crowd shitting all over what you are doing.

I can guarantee you, if they are able to find and properly develop and book "the guy" that appeals to the masses, the ratings needle goes up drastically, so does merchandise, so do network subscriptions.

Cena wasn't that guy (even though he was the man in his day) and Roman won't be unless he really digs down deep.

Or they can keep rolling in this awkward direction and stay in business and meet their bottom line.

02-01-2016, 06:41 PM	#64
Ol Dirty Dastard boop/bop/beep Posts: 38,428	Anyways... I will humour you (and myself, because I assume those are the only 2 people with any patience for this malarky). Your arguments are dumb. Look, I CANNOT and WILL not disagree with your assessment that this is a successful company and their successes should be celebrated. However, much like the Simpsons or Saturday Night Live, this does not mean they are resting on their laurels and living off a name. To have the name, and maintain the name is something special, you really need to have the "it" factor just as a brand and company. That's why if I met Vince McMahon I would shake that crazy fucking asshole's hand even though I kind of hate him. He is a badass motherfucker and to ignore that is idiotic (though I feel like I've gone through all of this with you before). HOWEVER It's not all about the bottom line. This is why your arguments are retarded and most of us feel like you're maybe having a laugh at our expense. When ratings drop, and it's consistent, and then all they do at best is get back to where they were before and just stay in that cycle constantly... it probably does not mean good things when it comes to the quality of what your product is on TV. And you are right, RAW is at a disadvantage and is unique in that the second it lost all of that momentum it once had where it had Walking Dead Like Numbers it's not like it could go anywhere. It's the fucking wrestling flagship. Most t.v. shows, the cast can go "Okay we can still do okay in the ratings, but the show is going to be no where near as good as it was and we will just never have the traction we once did so let's say goodbye". So instead the WWE has to rebrand and recreate the product effectively to keep fresh and relevant. It struggled greatly after the Hulkamania era, for a good 5-7 years, then was the Austin/Rock era which was a very successful rebranding. And every since that point, there hasn't been anything that "feels" revolutionary (you can argue with the quality all you want Nicky Boy, but the fact is, the bottom line was so great that Vince McMahon became a legit billionaire in that time and bought fucking WCW he was doing so well). The attitude era had its flaws, but the backbone of it was a fresh faced look at wrestling that was a far cry from the whimper that was the New Generation. So yeah, WWE is probably not going to drop below 3 all that often, and they'll stay between 2.8-3.8 or whatever and the needle isn't really moving anywhere from there. That means they are not drawing in any new viewers. There is notadvance. There is no gain. It's just been like that for years. It's all status quo. And you know that. That's fine. Totally fine That's what works for Vince, and he can do what he has to do and the bottom line works for him. I get it, if I were Vince and liked things a certain way I would do things how I want, as long as it wasn't hurting my wallet too much. However, just because we differ on the product does not mean it's hard to see its flaws. It's bigger than the talent, it's how they are used. John Cena individually is massively successful. He is a phenomenon and I think will do well in movies when he finally makes that move. Cross over appeal, awesome charisma, good athlete, hard worker and all in all a smart guy. Some how, when you wanted this guy to be your flag baring face... yeah he did it and he gritted it out.... but he got booed at least 50% of the time. Yes the fans paid money to see him, and blah blah blah the bottom line, we get it. But, your main goal was to have this guy cheered out of the building, and instead he got trash thrown at him. You can maybe blame 5% of that on Cena for maybe decisions he didn't make with his character, but that just shows a huge flaw in the creative process to me. You can give me nonsense about how Kids and women like him, and for sure I'm not going to argue that. Of course kids like him, kids like any pile of shit you throw at them. Kids also liked Steve Austin and so did adults. Same with Hulk Hogan. They didn't get booed out of the building during their height. As much as people like to blame fans for hijacking shows, if you give them something to cheer, they will cheer. And now the same thing is happening with Roman Reigns. The fans are so inconsistent because they just don't know how to book this guy. Look, the kids and the women and the casuals they like the guy well enough, but he has to appeal to ALLLLLLLLL audiences, and those ppv shows with the tougher crowds take skill to win over. Just because he appeals to the kids and the women does not exclude him from being able to appeal to PPV crowds. Your top babyface should not ALWAYS get shit on at your big ppvs. If he was booked right, he wouldn't be booed senseless. I'm not saying he's not "the guy", because honestly I think he deserves it after some of the shit he's been through. I'm saying, here is another symptom of a MEH product, the live crowd shitting all over what you are doing. I can guarantee you, if they are able to find and properly develop and book "the guy" that appeals to the masses, the ratings needle goes up drastically, so does merchandise, so do network subscriptions. Cena wasn't that guy (even though he was the man in his day) and Roman won't be unless he really digs down deep. Or they can keep rolling in this awkward direction and stay in business and meet their bottom line.