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Old 09-06-2010, 09:37 AM   #1
The Naitch
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Cain Velasquez vs. Brock Lesnar and other fights

Does Cain have enough power to knock Brock out? Or will Brock dominate him

How do their wrestling skills compare to eachother?


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Old 09-06-2010, 09:47 AM   #2
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Carwin couldn't knock out Lesnar.

However, Cain might be more accurate. Accuracy won't help him from his back, and Brock is bigger. Cain is better on the ground though.

Cain could possibly knock Brock up if he could keep it on his feet, but I don't see it happening.
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Old 09-06-2010, 09:54 AM   #3
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He doesn't have Carwin's power. He did KO Big Nog, but based on his last three fights, Nogueira isn't the same fighter that fought Fedor.

He definitely isn't going to out wrestle Brock, although he does have a decent amateur background.

If he's going to survive and pull off the upset, I think it might be due to Brock overlooking him or not having the proper conditioning. In terms of skill set, Brock has the edge.

MARK MY WORDS: Junior Dos Santos will be the one who knocks Brock off.
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Old 09-06-2010, 12:01 PM   #4
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How do you figure Dos Santos will? I'm just curious, as he couldn't even finish Fat Country.
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Old 09-06-2010, 12:33 PM   #5
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Nelson's chin > Brock's Chin. Dos Santos is a bad dude, but that doesn't=me getting on that bandwagon.

I absolutely feel that Velasquez can beat Brock. Carwin in the rematch will definitely beat Brock.
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Old 09-06-2010, 12:38 PM   #6
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dos santos will just get sat on.
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Old 09-06-2010, 12:42 PM   #7
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I haven't seen much of Velasquez, but what I have seen pretty much tells me that Lesnar is going to kill him.

Personally, I'd rather see a rematch with Carwin anyway, so I'm hoping for a Lesnar win.
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Old 09-06-2010, 12:46 PM   #8
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what would warrant a Carwin rematch?
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Old 09-06-2010, 12:47 PM   #9
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How do you figure Dos Santos will? I'm just curious, as he couldn't even finish Fat Country.
Roy Nelson is one of the more skilled and experienced fighters in the heavyweight divison. He's also in better shape, in terms of conditioning, than Shane Carwin (watch some of his pre-UFC MMA stuff or even the fight with Dos Santos before you laugh). If Carwin spent more time on conditioning he'd be champ. Nelson presented Dos Santos with a smarter opponent than Mir, who was caught in the emotion of the rematch, and someone who could go the distance unlike Carwin.

Carwin, while having a great wrestling background, is more of a brawler. That played into Brock's hands. Dos Santos will be a little bit more patient in there.

In terms of training, Dos Santos has two of the best with Nogueira and Silva. If you don't think they know more about analyzing an opponent and developing a game plan than anyone in Mir or Carwin's corner you're crazy.

Dos Santos goes in at 240 while Brock has to cut weight. I think that will affect him. Also, you can't dismiss the age difference.

It's all of those little factors that will make the difference.
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Old 09-06-2010, 12:51 PM   #10
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Dos Santos goes in at 240 while Brock has to cut weight. I think that will affect him. Also, you can't dismiss the age difference.

.
Does Brock have to be equal weight as Dos Santos if they fight?
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Old 09-06-2010, 12:52 PM   #11
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what would warrant a Carwin rematch?
Coz he destroyed Lesnar like nobody else? (in the first round anyway).

Dunno really, just something I'd like to see again.

I mean, if he has to work his way through the ranks or whatever, I can wait. But I just really wanna see these two go at it again.
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Old 09-06-2010, 12:54 PM   #12
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If Carwin got a rematch I'm hoping he'd do some SERIOUS work on his conditioning.
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Old 09-06-2010, 01:12 PM   #13
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Roy Nelson is one of the more skilled and experienced fighters in the heavyweight divison. He's also in better shape, in terms of conditioning, than Shane Carwin (watch some of his pre-UFC MMA stuff or even the fight with Dos Santos before you laugh). If Carwin spent more time on conditioning he'd be champ. Nelson presented Dos Santos with a smarter opponent than Mir, who was caught in the emotion of the rematch, and someone who could go the distance unlike Carwin.

Carwin, while having a great wrestling background, is more of a brawler. That played into Brock's hands. Dos Santos will be a little bit more patient in there.

In terms of training, Dos Santos has two of the best with Nogueira and Silva. If you don't think they know more about analyzing an opponent and developing a game plan than anyone in Mir or Carwin's corner you're crazy.

Dos Santos goes in at 240 while Brock has to cut weight. I think that will affect him. Also, you can't dismiss the age difference.

It's all of those little factors that will make the difference.
Hey genius... Carwin had greg jackson in his corner, so if you think that theres anyone out there whos better at analyzing a fight YOUR CRAZY

How did carwin being a brawler play into brocks hands? So what, Carwin being willing to swing and catching brock and dropping him and then going crazy on top for the finish was playing into brocks hands? GTFO.

Roy is not in better conditioning than carwin. My god. Carwin had a huge adrenaline dump after freaking the fuck out on top of lesnar. Roy doesnt do anything in his fights except throw a few yhaymakers and lay on a guys chest. Of course he looked like he had cardio with dos santos, he couldnt do anything at all, and your not burning energy if you are standing there not doing anything.

A weight cut isnt going to hurt or affect brock, are you crazy? Hes been doing it since he was in college and when your that size, a 10-15 lb cut is nothing.
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Old 09-06-2010, 01:16 PM   #14
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valazques will work lesnar.


in terms of the style of wrestling the two employ, cain's is more effective and he is also probably a better wrestler in mma. He can mix up strikes and takedowns on top of being fast. brock barrels in for double legs across the cage and doesnt set it up on top of looking completely awkward on his feet. He actually uses his shot to set up big punches which should tell you something.
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Old 09-06-2010, 03:14 PM   #15
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How did carwin being a brawler play into brocks hands? So what, Carwin being willing to swing and catching brock and dropping him and then going crazy on top for the finish was playing into brocks hands? GTFO.

Roy is not in better conditioning than carwin. My god. Carwin had a huge adrenaline dump after freaking the fuck out on top of lesnar. Roy doesnt do anything in his fights except throw a few yhaymakers and lay on a guys chest. Of course he looked like he had cardio with dos santos, he couldnt do anything at all, and your not burning energy if you are standing there not doing anything.

A weight cut isnt going to hurt or affect brock, are you crazy? Hes been doing it since he was in college and when your that size, a 10-15 lb cut is nothing.
You answered most of this for me and made it easy. Good for you.

Carwin is a brawler and what did he do? He went out and punched himself tired, like brawlers do. The result? He faded and got choked out. End of story.

As far as trainers, Greg Jackson's amazing, but I'll still take Anderson Silva considering he's beaten up on a couple of Greg's boys already anyways.

Brock having to cut 10 to 15 pounds is no big deal when his opponents do too, like Mir and Carwin did, but it does make a difference when you're burning energy trying to cut weight and your opponent is already at his optimal weight.

Finally... relax. It's just the internet. No need to get all feisty over people who don't even know you exist.
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Old 09-06-2010, 03:42 PM   #16
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15 pounds is nothing to Brock, he could lose that in just a work out.
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Old 09-06-2010, 03:57 PM   #17
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Does Brock have to be equal weight as Dos Santos if they fight?
No, but Brock is a natural 285 pounds and the heavyweight limit is 265.
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You answered most of this for me and made it easy. Good for you.

Carwin is a brawler and what did he do? He went out and punched himself tired, like brawlers do. The result? He faded and got choked out. End of story.

As far as trainers, Greg Jackson's amazing, but I'll still take Anderson Silva considering he's beaten up on a couple of Greg's boys already anyways.

Brock having to cut 10 to 15 pounds is no big deal when his opponents do too, like Mir and Carwin did, but it does make a difference when you're burning energy trying to cut weight and your opponent is already at his optimal weight.

Finally... relax. It's just the internet. No need to get all feisty over people who don't even know you exist.
Mir and Carwin gained weight for their last fights.
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Old 09-06-2010, 05:10 PM   #18
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No, but Brock is a natural 285 pounds and the heavyweight limit is 265.


Mir and Carwin gained weight for their last fights.
What the fuck!? That's not true at all. Carwin was like 15 pounds over the week and a half before the weigh in for Lesnar.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mma/news?slu...arcarwin063010

There's even mere on an audio interview talking about CUTTING DOWN to 245 for the UFC 100 Lesnar fight and then GAINING for 107.

http://mmahits.com/news/frank-mir-i-...-lesnar-fight/
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Old 09-06-2010, 06:00 PM   #19
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You answered most of this for me and made it easy. Good for you.

Carwin is a brawler and what did he do? He went out and punched himself tired, like brawlers do. The result? He faded and got choked out. End of story.

As far as trainers, Greg Jackson's amazing, but I'll still take Anderson Silva considering he's beaten up on a couple of Greg's boys already anyways.

Brock having to cut 10 to 15 pounds is no big deal when his opponents do too, like Mir and Carwin did, but it does make a difference when you're burning energy trying to cut weight and your opponent is already at his optimal weight.

Finally... relax. It's just the internet. No need to get all feisty over people who don't even know you exist.
He punched himself out like brawlers do? Forrest griffin, bonnar, liddell, roy nelson (who you think is a top conditioned heavyweight) are all brawlers who dont tire out. Carwin suffered an adrenaline dump from his style CAPITALIZING on lesnar, he just didnt finish.

Your putting anderson silva in higher regards as a trainer than greg jackson? Silva is a talent and hes beating great people but hes not doing that because hes an amazing analyst or even has that in his corner. My god watch his fights. Hes simply a counterpuncher and look what happens when he gets someone who wont engage him or who has great takedowns... He looked like he had the perfect gameplan for sonnen.

Do you even know what fighters train with jackson??


Clearly you know nothing at all about cutting weight so your view is not that unexpected, but in a day before weigh in where you get 24 hours to hydrate and rest your body, a 10-15 maybe 20lb cut on a 280 lb man will not affect him at all.

The fact that he will be 15-20 lbs over the weight come fight time is a huge advantage for him come fight time especially because dos santos is going to have to deal with that weight.
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Old 09-06-2010, 06:03 PM   #20
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No, but Brock is a natural 285 pounds and the heavyweight limit is 265.


Mir and Carwin gained weight for their last fights.
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What the fuck!? That's not true at all. Carwin was like 15 pounds over the week and a half before the weigh in for Lesnar.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mma/news?slu...arcarwin063010

There's even mere on an audio interview talking about CUTTING DOWN to 245 for the UFC 100 Lesnar fight and then GAINING for 107.

http://mmahits.com/news/frank-mir-i-...-lesnar-fight/
Technically its true on both accounts.... mir gained a shit ton for his fight with kongo and kept it on for the carwin fight. Carwin started to lean up a bit and lost a buch of weight and started to put it back on for the lesnar fight.

Mir never had to actually cut to make 265 where carwin ended up needing to for the lesnar fight
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Old 09-06-2010, 06:32 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Reavant View Post
He punched himself out like brawlers do? Forrest griffin, bonnar, liddell, roy nelson (who you think is a top conditioned heavyweight) are all brawlers who dont tire out. Carwin suffered an adrenaline dump from his style CAPITALIZING on lesnar, he just didnt finish.

Your putting anderson silva in higher regards as a trainer than greg jackson? Silva is a talent and hes beating great people but hes not doing that because hes an amazing analyst or even has that in his corner. My god watch his fights. Hes simply a counterpuncher and look what happens when he gets someone who wont engage him or who has great takedowns... He looked like he had the perfect gameplan for sonnen.

Do you even know what fighters train with jackson??


Clearly you know nothing at all about cutting weight so your view is not that unexpected, but in a day before weigh in where you get 24 hours to hydrate and rest your body, a 10-15 maybe 20lb cut on a 280 lb man will not affect him at all.

The fact that he will be 15-20 lbs over the weight come fight time is a huge advantage for him come fight time especially because dos santos is going to have to deal with that weight.
1) You can't be fucking serious saying Carwin crapped out because of an adrenaline rush. Don't be a mark. I've yet to hear any of the great fighters claim they blew their load in the first round due to an adrenaline rush. You think he's the first guy to ever go out aggressive in the first round of a fight? You think he's the first guy to ever try to capitalize on a wounded opponent and not be able to finish him off in the first round?

2) Do YOU even know what fighters train with Greg Jackson? Pretty sure Nate Marquardt is one of those boys I said Silva beat the shit out of. If YOU knew who he trained maybe you would have thought twice about that comment.

3) Chael Sonnen has a good showing and now, Anderson Silva, who has won 13 straight is simply a counterpuncher. And you expect to be taken seriously by relegating one of the greatest MMA fighters of all time to the status of counterpuncher? GTFO.
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Old 09-06-2010, 06:51 PM   #22
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Cain Velasquez is gonna work Brock like a government mule, Brock is gonna tire, and Cain is gonna get the win.
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Old 09-06-2010, 07:11 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Next Big Thing View Post
1) You can't be fucking serious saying Carwin crapped out because of an adrenaline rush. Don't be a mark. I've yet to hear any of the great fighters claim they blew their load in the first round due to an adrenaline rush. You think he's the first guy to ever go out aggressive in the first round of a fight? You think he's the first guy to ever try to capitalize on a wounded opponent and not be able to finish him off in the first round?

2) Do YOU even know what fighters train with Greg Jackson? Pretty sure Nate Marquardt is one of those boys I said Silva beat the shit out of. If YOU knew who he trained maybe you would have thought twice about that comment.

3) Chael Sonnen has a good showing and now, Anderson Silva, who has won 13 straight is simply a counterpuncher. And you expect to be taken seriously by relegating one of the greatest MMA fighters of all time to the status of counterpuncher? GTFO.
Adrenaline dump. The after effects, not the actual rush. Also, Silva's main weapon is counter punching. Granted he's great at pretty much everything, but he counter punches like a motherfucker.
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Cain Velasquez is gonna work Brock like a government mule, Brock is gonna tire, and Cain is gonna get the win.
Hard to say. I doubt Cain will KO him at any point, but I can see it going to the 4th or 5th round in a close fight before either of them gains a significant upper hand.
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Old 09-06-2010, 10:04 PM   #24
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1) You can't be fucking serious saying Carwin crapped out because of an adrenaline rush. Don't be a mark. I've yet to hear any of the great fighters claim they blew their load in the first round due to an adrenaline rush. You think he's the first guy to ever go out aggressive in the first round of a fight? You think he's the first guy to ever try to capitalize on a wounded opponent and not be able to finish him off in the first round?
Are you kidding? youve never heard the term adrenaline dump? It happens a lot, but usually a fighter can get past it. Carwin could not and Brock was too smart to let him.

Fuck it even happened to me in a fight but luckily i finished before the round came to close.

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2) Do YOU even know what fighters train with Greg Jackson? Pretty sure Nate Marquardt is one of those boys I said Silva beat the shit out of. If YOU knew who he trained maybe you would have thought twice about that comment.
WOW hahahaha

GSP, Rashad Evans, Shane Carwin, Jon Jones, Donald Cerrone, Leonard Garcia, Keith Jardine, Nate Marquart, Clay Guida, Joe Stevenson, Brendan shaub, and Carlos Condit.

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Originally Posted by Next Big Thing View Post
3) Chael Sonnen has a good showing and now, Anderson Silva, who has won 13 straight is simply a counterpuncher. And you expect to be taken seriously by relegating one of the greatest MMA fighters of all time to the status of counterpuncher? GTFO.
Yes he has won 13 strait victories by simply being a counterpuncher.

This isnt just because sonnen almost beat him, this is because of how he fights and what hes done in the cage. Anyone who has watched his fights would know that though... luckily I have. Let me educate you.

UFN5 against Chris Leban who runs right at you swinging, and played right into anderson's game and KOed Leban

UFC 64 Rich frankin came at him with his unorthodox style and anderson picked him apart

UFC 67 Travis Lutter was actually able to bring anderson to the ground where he mounted him and dominated him, then in the second round took him down again but got tired and caught in a triangle.

UFC 73 Marquart Trying to bring him down but his wrestling isnt good enough, gets tagged coming in, anderson then pounds him out on top.

UFC77 Rich Franklin again, same story

UFC 82 Dan Henderson takes him down in the first, and then throws a haymkaker in the second and gets counter punched, then silva jumped on him.

UFN 14 James Irvin throws a kick that is caught by anderson and then dropped with a cross

UFC 90 Patrick Cote employs a strategy to hang back and make anderson come to him, it doesnt happen. Anderson will not aggressivly engage. Cote blows out his knee taking a step.

UFC 97 Thales Leites again doesnt engage the whole fight. Anderson will not go after him or go to the ground with him. Only wants to counterpunch

UFC 101 Forrest Griffin comes right at him and falls flat on his face

UFC 112 Demian Maia doesnt engage the first three, anderson wond go after him, last two demian is aggressive, anderson decides to dance

UFC 117, Sonnen has the proper takedowns to get anderson down and control him and does. He makes a mistake in the fifth and anderson capitalizes. Even his fucking submissions are counters.


And by the way, theres nothing wrong with being labeled as just a counterpuncher. Thats like taking away from tyson in his prime by saying hes only a power puncher.

Seriously dude stop being a mark and actually read up or know what the fuck you comment on... men are talking here little boy
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Old 09-07-2010, 01:23 AM   #25
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Velasquez vs. Lesnar is such a hard fight to pick because both fighters are so new in their careers and add new wrinkles to their game every time they go out.

Who knows how good both of them can be, and who knows how good both of them will be when they fight. We're talking about two guys who have a combined 14 fights in MMA and have a combined 7 years MMA experience under their belts. They're both around 4 years in and for most mixed martial artists that's just when they start to come into their own.

The scary thing is we've probably only seen a glimpse at how good these two can be they're so new to the sport.
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Old 09-07-2010, 12:56 PM   #26
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I just think Cain is the better overall fighter, Brock is very one dimensional, and looks really uncomfortable on his feet. I think Cain can KO Brock, maybe not with one punch, but he could definetly pummel him into submission. Brock is going to have a hard time getting that double leg on Cain, who is faster, and more agile, and probably the better wrestler in terms of using it in MMA. Brock has mammoth size and wrestling, with freak athletism for a man his size, but that only goes so far. Cain is certainly the more well rounded fighter, and more skilled overall. If Cain can avoid getting pushed around, and can control the pace standing, it could be a very long night for Brock.
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Old 09-07-2010, 01:01 PM   #27
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I think Brock walks right through him. He's that good and only getting better.
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Old 09-07-2010, 01:16 PM   #28
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I don't think he's "that" good. He relys on size, and his wrestling. His submission game is weak, despite choking out Carwin. His ground and pound is weak compared to others in the sport, and really it's not even average. If you think Brock walks through Cain, you have a surprise coming at 121. Brock is the to the heavyweight division what Matt Hughes was to the Welterweight division circa 05. A big, strong, dominant wrestler, who used his wrestling to control the fight and oppanents. Eventually someone is going to stuff his takedowns, and then Brock is left with nothing expect maybe swinging for the fences. Look at guys like Hughes and Ortiz as examples of what happens when everyones else wrestling catches up.

Last edited by Instant Classic; 09-07-2010 at 05:18 PM.
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Old 09-07-2010, 01:55 PM   #29
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I know who can beat Lesnar.

SPOILER: show
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Old 09-07-2010, 05:11 PM   #30
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i love Brock, but i got Cain on this one. He doesnt have the power of Carwin, but he is a much more accurate striker. Cant say i see him KO'ing Lesnar, but i think it'll be a grind and come down to who has the cardio.
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Old 09-07-2010, 06:21 PM   #31
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I wouldnt say his ground and pound is weak at all...
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Old 09-07-2010, 06:31 PM   #32
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I wouldnt say his ground and pound is weak at all...
I didn't mean weak power wise, I mean't weak in terms of skill and technical prowess.
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Old 09-07-2010, 07:05 PM   #33
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well he tied mir into a pretzel before pounding him out so whether that was technical or not it was impressive
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Old 09-07-2010, 07:33 PM   #34
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Yeah but Mir can't wrestle for shit.
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Old 09-07-2010, 08:26 PM   #35
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I don't get why everybody shits on Lesner? Is it because he's a dick who made fame and fortune in the WWE?
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Old 09-07-2010, 09:11 PM   #36
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people kill me with this 'brock is one dimensional' shit. Before the last fight who would've called him tapping somebody? NONE OF YOU FUCKERS. he works his ass off...and he only shows what he has to. until somebody makes him work, why not stick to the vanilla formula.
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Old 09-07-2010, 10:12 PM   #37
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not true... as long as he is on top and in control, I can totally see him tapping anyone especially with the type of move he used.

now watch out if he cant take someone down right away, because while he works his ass off, he is not comfortable on his feet at all.
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Old 09-07-2010, 10:25 PM   #38
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he's gonna beat velasquez by head kick followed by shooting star press.
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Old 09-07-2010, 11:50 PM   #39
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Brock is gonna beat cain via anaconda squeeze. He has been training with nacho libre.
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Old 09-08-2010, 12:18 AM   #40
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This is such a hard fight to pick, and a dangerous fight for Brock Lesnar. Is it more dangerous than Shane Carwin? I don't know, Cain is a machine and a great wrester with perhaps the best ground and pound going. Is he a better wrestler than Brock Lesnar? I don't know, perhaps but Brock does seem to have a big size and strength advantage. I think if the fight does go the distance then it will be in Cain's corner, but more than likely I think Brock will submit him with a guillotine from the bottom in round 2 or 4.

I am not counting Cain out, I don't want him to win but I think he has a damn good chance. He is an amazing fighter but my instinct tells me that fighting a freak like Brock isn't going to go in his favor.
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