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Old 04-25-2010, 03:46 AM   #801
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Originally Posted by Jon Kano View Post
He cannot change from his current John Locke form. We do not know why. But Ilana said this to Ben as they were on their way to bury the real Locke. Whoever though it was Michael needs to pay more attention
Was just watching a repeat of season 5 on TV where Ben goes to the temple to be judged. MIB took the form of Alex and pushed Ben against a wall telling him he must not kill Locke and must obey him.

He also took the form of Christian and showed Sun and Lupidas a picture of Jack and Co. in the Dharma Initiative in an earlier episode which they alluded to in this one.
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Old 04-25-2010, 03:48 AM   #802
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But maybe when Jacob is killed is when MIB must stay in his form. That's the only pivital event I can think of that could cause that.
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Old 04-25-2010, 10:06 AM   #803
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Jacob dying is what keeps MiB as Locke. Ilana hinted at this and I think the producers confirmed this in a podcast.
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Old 04-25-2010, 10:52 AM   #804
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Originally Posted by RoXer View Post
Was just watching a repeat of season 5 on TV where Ben goes to the temple to be judged. MIB took the form of Alex and pushed Ben against a wall telling him he must not kill Locke and must obey him.

He also took the form of Christian and showed Sun and Lupidas a picture of Jack and Co. in the Dharma Initiative in an earlier episode which they alluded to in this one.
I'm just going by what Ilana said on the beach as they were burying Locke. I dunno where to go on that one now.
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Old 04-25-2010, 11:25 AM   #805
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The Island is in the game Just Cause 2, pretty cool looking if you ask me, reminds me how I loved walking round the Island in Via Domus, even if it wasn't that great of a game. Would love a game where you can explore the Island fully.
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Old 04-25-2010, 11:43 AM   #806
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Yeah I saw this a while ago, apparently the plane explodes by default if you ever fly over it lol.

Think there is also a hatch in the WoW game universe I saw.
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Old 04-25-2010, 11:44 AM   #807
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lol
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Old 04-25-2010, 11:45 AM   #808
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haha yeah my ex-girlfriend told me she found that during her WoW playing days.
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Old 04-25-2010, 12:52 PM   #809
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I'm probably gonna play just cause 2 just to find the island.
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Old 04-25-2010, 01:39 PM   #810
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Isn't there an actual Lost video game?
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Old 04-25-2010, 01:45 PM   #811
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Yes but many people didn't like it.

I only played it over the course of one week, I thought it was okish. The voice overs were terrible.
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Old 04-25-2010, 01:57 PM   #812
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I'm sure once Lost is finished, there will be more thought put into things like that.
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Old 04-25-2010, 02:54 PM   #813
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I'm curious about what these Lostpedia folk were complaining about. I browsed that forum and didn't see anything particularly negative. I don't doubt fanboys overreacting at all though
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Old 04-25-2010, 03:10 PM   #814
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Quote:
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I'm curious about what these Lostpedia folk were complaining about. I browsed that forum and didn't see anything particularly negative. I don't doubt fanboys overreacting at all though
Mostly people picking out every small instance and point out to say "See! They didnt have this planned all along! The writers suck and wrote themselves into a corner. They are just making stuff up as they go along! "

That variety of comments.
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Old 04-25-2010, 03:16 PM   #815
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I think people are too absolute about the whole "planned all along" thing. It's possible to have a general idea/theme/direction planned out and not every single detail mapped out.
Obviously they never had every episode and event written in stone. That would be ridiculous. That doesn't mean they're making it up as they go along either. I don't think the majority of people out there have the slightest clue of how a writing or creative process works at all.
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Old 04-25-2010, 03:28 PM   #816
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I like to think they started with a general idea of where things were going, then made it up as they went along, and then when they knew when the end was going to be, they solidified their plans.
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Old 04-25-2010, 03:37 PM   #817
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They obviously make stuff up as they go along. It's called writing. I don't see why this a bad thing at all. It's expected and I'm actually glad it happens. That comes with the territory of writing a seasonal network TV show. They don't always know what they're going to run into, and things change.
They more than likely plot things season to season. Obviously entire seasons seem to be planned out in advance. Things like the increased role of Linus, or the twists and turns we see from episode to episode are all improvised. It's not like something like Faraday parachuting onto the island, or the boat not being Penny's , etc. had to be set in stone.
That is all just story that gets the show from point A to point B.
It's the bigger picture. The Island, The Smoke Monster, The Others, Richard Alpert. The very big questions and ideas are likely what was planned in advance.

The writers knew The Hatch wasn't going to be the biggest deal in the end, but they made it seem that way because it's good storytelling.

Either way I don't really care. It's fiction. It's all made up as they go along on some level. Whether it's planned word for word, season by season, or episode by episode is really irrelevant to the final product.
The show has set it's own end date and direction, and is ending on it's own terms. I don't see why people are so skeptical that they have a plan.
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Old 04-25-2010, 07:18 PM   #818
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeritron View Post
They obviously make stuff up as they go along. It's called writing. I don't see why this a bad thing at all. It's expected and I'm actually glad it happens. That comes with the territory of writing a seasonal network TV show. They don't always know what they're going to run into, and things change.
They more than likely plot things season to season. Obviously entire seasons seem to be planned out in advance. Things like the increased role of Linus, or the twists and turns we see from episode to episode are all improvised. It's not like something like Faraday parachuting onto the island, or the boat not being Penny's , etc. had to be set in stone.
That is all just story that gets the show from point A to point B.
It's the bigger picture. The Island, The Smoke Monster, The Others, Richard Alpert. The very big questions and ideas are likely what was planned in advance.

The writers knew The Hatch wasn't going to be the biggest deal in the end, but they made it seem that way because it's good storytelling.

Either way I don't really care. It's fiction. It's all made up as they go along on some level. Whether it's planned word for word, season by season, or episode by episode is really irrelevant to the final product.
The show has set it's own end date and direction, and is ending on it's own terms. I don't see why people are so skeptical that they have a plan.
completely agree At the end of the day, i have been more than entertained for 6 seasons of watching the show, discussing it, and reading about it.
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Old 04-25-2010, 07:27 PM   #819
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The Island is in the game Just Cause 2, pretty cool looking if you ask me, reminds me how I loved walking round the Island in Via Domus, even if it wasn't that great of a game. Would love a game where you can explore the Island fully.
It's not the Island - there's a storyline reason in one of the game missions as to why your plane crashes the moment you fly over that one particular island. Although what is on the island is still pretty bizarre.

The Hatch is probably just there as a homage.
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Old 04-25-2010, 07:31 PM   #820
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What?

The whole island is there as an homage.
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Old 04-27-2010, 10:06 PM   #821
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I re-watched Ab Aterno, the Alpert episode tonight.

QUESTION-
Man in Black takes the form of Isabella, Richard's wife, as part of his plot to convince him to kill Jacob.
How is this possible? We know MIB can take the form of dead people like Locke and Christian, but their bodies have to be on the island. As far as we know, and common sense dictates, Isabella is not on the island. How can he take her form?
If this is the case, he wouldn't have needed Christian or Locke's bodies brought to the Island which has been specifically stated to be the case.
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Old 04-27-2010, 10:55 PM   #822
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I think they jus tfucked up.

Like Yemis body was there, so it worked for eko...but I honeslty think this was just some plot oversight.
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Old 04-27-2010, 11:02 PM   #823
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Everyone he has appeared as has had their body on the island. Locke, Christian, Yemi, Alex Rosseau. Plus he said he needed their bodies in last weeks episode.
So I guess it really was a mistake. The only explanation is if he can somehow briefly imitate the dead, but not longterm. That doesn't make much sense.
Or if Isabella's body was on the ship. That also doesn't make any sense and wasn't stated.

I also just read something about him appearing as Christian years before the crash of flight 815. I never thought of that. Was this when he met the real Locke by the wheel? I hadn't even thought of that before, but was that during time travelling and before Christian's body was ever on the island?
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Old 04-27-2010, 11:03 PM   #824
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perhaps she wasnt the MIB
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Old 04-27-2010, 11:04 PM   #825
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I have a bad feeling that the overall theme/message in the final will be something along the lines of "All you need is love/love conquers all"
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Old 04-27-2010, 11:07 PM   #826
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perhaps she wasnt the MIB
She was though. It wasn't her spirit, Richard can't see spirits. Later in the episode her spirit is standing right next to him and he can't see her.
They also reveal that MIB was taking her form. It was the enhanced version
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Old 04-27-2010, 11:27 PM   #827
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I also just read something about him appearing as Christian years before the crash of flight 815. I never thought of that. Was this when he met the real Locke by the wheel? I hadn't even thought of that before, but was that during time travelling and before Christian's body was ever on the island?
Maybe the monster is a part of the island and time traveled also? So he had already discovered Christian's body.
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Old 04-27-2010, 11:30 PM   #828
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That one doesn't really matter to me at all since it's all relative really. I just wonder how/why he was able to replicate Isabella, and based on the rules they have set out it seems to be a fuck up
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Old 04-28-2010, 01:17 AM   #829
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did they say in the footnotes of this episode it was for sure the mib taking her body?
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Old 04-28-2010, 01:22 AM   #830
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Yes. That much was made obvious in the episode too, but they came out and actually flat out said it in the footnotes
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Old 04-28-2010, 08:13 AM   #831
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Jacob even said it wasn't his wife, to Richard.

The only other idea is that they do not have to be on the Island. Ben saw his mother as a child on the Island, and her body was never buried on the Island.
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Old 04-28-2010, 08:22 AM   #832
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The extended episodes with the captions arent neccessarily canon. The producers said they dont have time to really look at those, though someone is there to try and make sure everything is correct.

Also, I dont think every dead person that has appeared on the island is the smoke monster. Some are dreams, some are manifestations of another kind/hallucinations.

Christian was traveling back in time I assume because Smokey had already started using him and I assume could keep his form in 1977, so yes, technically Christian appeared on the Island long before the Lost folk ever did.

While we have been told the whispers are dead people on the island, that doesnt mean MiB cant assume other forms of dead people from characters' past. The first time he meets Richard, he is clearly scanning him, only after which Isabella appears.

Same I would think with Dave and Hurley, and Ben with his mother. Go back and watch Man Behind the Curtain. Richard's reaction to young Ben saying he saw his dead mother out in the jungle isnt exactly one of happiness.
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Old 04-28-2010, 08:25 AM   #833
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It isn't exactly one of horror either, more interest in the fact and idea he can see her. Like MIB was with Sawyer and Desmond seeing the scruffy child who plagues him.

What is all this stuff about Christian being in 1977? When? where?
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Old 04-28-2010, 08:30 AM   #834
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It isn't exactly one of horror either, more interest in the fact and idea he can see her. Like MIB was with Sawyer and Desmond seeing the scruffy child who plagues him.

What is all this stuff about Christian being in 1977? When? where?
Actually its previous to 1977, when Locke has to turn the wheel. He is the one who tells Locke to get up and do it. (Its MiB in Christian form, not actually Christian). Its previous to the well or Orchid station being built.
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Old 04-28-2010, 11:41 AM   #835
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Yea it's when they were time jumping.

I suppose MIB can just scan people and assume the form of the dead, but that sort of contradicts MIB's statements that he needed Locke's body brought to the Island so he could assume it.
Maybe the difference is just that he can only physically take the form of people who he has the body of, but can temporarily create the illusion of the dead from people's memories. We don't know if anyone else would have been able to see Isabella when Richard did, or the same for Ben's mother.
Christian is a non issue really. We know he took his form, but he never said that he needed his body to do so. I think that's just assumed since it's the form he took most often other than Locke's, and his body was there too.

There's also the possibility that MIB was Kate's horse, and Hurley Bird. I don't know about that, but I've heard it suggested.

I think the MIB/Jacob episode will shed some more light on exactly what his powers are. It's sort of unclear right now, aside from the hints and obvious connections.
I hope it sheds a little light on this though.
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Old 04-28-2010, 11:57 AM   #836
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crap, I was all excited for a new Lost last night. looking foward to it all day. Then @ 8:59pm, it dawned on me that the show is on a 2 week hiatus.

I rewatched the episode though
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Old 04-28-2010, 12:06 PM   #837
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crap, I was all excited for a new Lost last night. looking foward to it all day. Then @ 8:59pm, it dawned on me that the show is on a 2 week hiatus.

I rewatched the episode though
Same I ended up just drinking a few beers and playing Bad Company 2 on Xbox with friends.

Tuesday night my wife is out of the house, and usually I enjoy some lost. Made me sad.
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Old 04-28-2010, 12:12 PM   #838
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This whole thing about MIB/Christian being around when the Island was time jumping, its not really that significant or a big deal. And yeah, pretty sure the main difference is with Locke's body and having him dead before he could look like him - the difference is that he can use that body in a physical way. That is why when Locke asked Christian for help in the well, Christian said he could not, probably because he cannot actually touch or physcially help Locke.

And to be honest, I don't think MIB is/has been Christian the whole time, it just doesn't fit or seem the case. MIB kinda looked surprised when Jack said he saw his dead father, and that he kinda pulled that 'you needed to find water' reply out of the blue, either it was a good guess or he scanned his mind there and then. I dunno, there are just certain instances which make me think that MIB, Jacob and even The Island have used Christian Sheppard to get things done before. Has everybody fogotten this....this does not seem like the actions, words or intent of the MIB



Also 'Kate's Horse', I used to think that was significant like the Hurley bird also, but its getting to the point where whatever it was, it has no real importance now. I mean neither lead them to do anything or made a significant change to anything. I thought the horse could've just been part of the farm that was stationed at The Flame. There were tons of farm animals there.
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Old 04-28-2010, 12:16 PM   #839
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MIB could have used Christian in a physical way, though, since his body was there. I don't see why this would be any different than Locke
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Old 04-28-2010, 12:19 PM   #840
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Unless he isn't dead?

The only other possibility is that Christian is not dead, maybe MIB is using that as his A-bomb to pull out on Jack? Maybe he has had Christian this whole time, saved and kept and is actually serving the MIB like one of his 'claimed'.
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