Better Wrestler #64

[Destor]

VS




3 DAYS

Better Wrestler History #1. Trish Stratus vs Charlotte (27-13) #2. Trish Stratus vs The Miz (20-13) #3. Trish Stratus vs Booker T (19-19) #4. Trish Stratus vs The Big Show (19-9) #5. Trish Stratus vs Ricky "The Dragon" Steamboat (10-25) #6. Ricky "The Dragon" Steamboat vs Bokker T (22-13) #7. Ricky "The Dragon" Steamboat vs Kevin Nash (17-16) #8. Ricky "The Dragon" Steamboat vs John Cena (6-21) #9. John Cena vs Kevin Owens (25-8) #10. John Cena vs Goldberg (28-4) #11. John Cena vs Chris Jericho (4-33) #12. Chris Jericho vs AJ Styles (26-6) #13. Chris Jericho vs Chris Benoit (26-5) #14. Chris Jericho vs Kurt Angle (9-27) #15. Kurt Angle vs "Mr. Perfect" Curt Hennig (31-5) #16. Kurt Angle vs "The American Dream" Dusty Rhodes (17-14) #17. Kurt Angle vs Eddie Guerrero (23-12) #18. Kurt Angle vs "The Heartbreak Kid" Shawn Michaels (21-22) #19. "The Heartbreak Kid" Shawn Michaels vs Christian (31-7) #20. "The Heartbreak Kid" Shawn Michaels vs Mick Foley (27-7)#21. "The Heartbreak Kid" Shawn Michaels vs Bret "The Hitman" Hart (20-23)#22. Bret "The Hitman" Hart vs Vader (24-15)#23. Bret "The Hitman" Hart vs "Rowdy" Roddy Piper (20-18)#24. Bret "The Hitman" Hart vs "Macho Man" Randy Savage (12-24)#25. "Macho Man" Randy Savage vs Ultimate Warrior (34-4)#26. "Macho Man" Randy Savage vs Jake "The Snake" Roberts (29-3)#27. "Macho Man" Randy Savage vs Triple H (32-6)#28. "Macho Man" Randy Savage vs The Undertaker (24-19)#29. Roman Reigns vs Lex Luger (21-20)#30. Roman Reigns vs The Great Khali (20-18)#31. Roman Reigns vs AJ Lee (14-24)#32. AJ Lee vs Emma (32-6)#33. AJ Lee vs Lita (11-26)#34. Lita vs John Morrison (15-22) #35. John Morrison vs Ricochet (26-6)#36. John Morrison vs Dean Malenko (8-25)#37. Dean Malenko vs Perry Saturn (23-10)#38. Dean Malenko vs Taz (19-22)#39. Taz vs Shane Douglas (28-3)#40. Taz vs Raven (15-19)#41. Raven vs Bray Wyatt (20-11)#42. Raven vs "Diamond" Dallas Page (7-25)#43. "Diamond" Dallas Page vs Scott Hall (14-16)#44. Scott Hall vs Sid Vicious (29-4)#45. Scott Hall vs "The British Bulldog" Davey Boy Smith (26-8)#46. Scott Hall vs "The Million Dollar Man" Ted Dibiase (13-17)#47. "The Million Dollar Man" Ted Dibiase vs "Dr. Death" Steve Williams (24-6)#48. "The Million Dollar Man" Ted Dibiase vs Sting (12-26)#49. Sting vs Matt Hardy (26-8)#50. Sting vs Edge (13-24)#51. Edge vs Kane (20-13)#52. Edge vs Dean Ambrose (22-13)#53. Edge vs CM Punk (12-24)#54. CM Punk vs Rob Van Damn (18-19) #55. Rob Van Dam vs Adrian Neville (26-7)#56. Rob Van Dam vs Rey Mysterio (10-22)#57. Rey Mysterio vs Scott Steiner (18-12)#58. Rey Mysterio vs Jeff Hardy (20-15)#59. Rey Mysterio vs Brock Lesnar (6-26)#60. Brock Lesnar vs John "Bradshaw" Layfield (28-3)#61. Brock Lesnar vs Randy Orton (21-12)#62. Brock Lesnar vs John Cena (13-17) #63. John Cena vs Vince McMahon (18-12)

Better Wrestler Hall of Fame"Macho Man" Randy Savage

Previous Better Wrestler History#1.RVD vs CM Punk (34-19)#2.RVD vs Santino Marella (36-4)#3.RVD vs "Mr. Perfect" Curt Hennig (15-23)#4."Mr. Perfect" Curt Hennig vs Tully Blanchard (30-5)#5."Mr. Perfect" Curt Hennig vs Chris Jericho (15-23)#6.Chris Jericho vs Brock Lesnar (34-10)#7.Chris Jericho vs William Regal (38-14)#8.Chris Jericho vs Eddie Guerrero (21-23)#9.Eddie Guerrero vs Ricky "The Dragon" Steamboat (26-7)#10.Eddie Guerrero vs "Macho Man" Randy Savage (26-19)#11.Eddie Guerrero vs Diamond Dallas Page (39-8)#12.Eddie Guerrero vs "Stone Cold" Steve Austin(19-28)#13."Stone Cold" Steve Austin vs Chris Benoit (32-13)#14."Stone Cold" Steve Austin vs Jake "The Snake" Roberts (29-10)#15."Stone Cold" Steve Austin vs Sting (36-16)#16."Stone Cold" Steve Austin vs Bret "The Hitman" Hart (32-31)#17.Hulk Hogan vs John Cena (15-24)#18.John Cena vs Lex Luger (32-6)#19.John Cena vs Ultimate Warrior (29-18)#20.John Cena vs Dean Malenko (9-40)#21.Dean Malenko vs Billy Kidman (31-7)#22.Dean Malenko vs Ultimo Dragon (22-15)#23.Dean Malenko vs Taz (15-17)#24.Taz vs Sabu (38-2)#25.Taz vs Jeff Hardy (25-16)#26.Taz vs Bam Bam Bigelow (26-12)#27.Taz vs Triple H (24-22)#28.Edge vs Christian Cage (22-23)#29.Christian Cage vs Raven (23-22)#30.Christian vs Matt Hardy (22-19)#31.Christian vs Ted Dibiase (24-25)#32.Ted Dibiase vs "Rowdy" Roddy Piper (16-19)#33."Rowdy" Roddy Piper vs "The British Bulldog" Davey Boy Smith (25-19)#34."Rowdy" Roddy Piper vs Bob Backlund (26-6)#35."Rowdy" Roddy Piper vs The Dynamite Kid (26-13)#36."Rowdy Roddy Piper vs Ric Flair (16-19)#37.Ric Flair vs Bret "The Hitman" Hart (19-17)#38.Ric Flair vs Andre "The Giant" (28-5)#39.Ric Flair vs Triple H (26-11)#40.Ric Flair vs Shawn Michaels (20-26)#41.Shawn Michaels vs Jushin "Thunder" Lyger (26-15)#42.Shawn Michaels vs Perry Saturn (36-12)#43.Shawn Michaels vs The Undertaker (29-11)#44.Shawn Michaels vs The Rock (28-30)#45.The Rock vs Trish Stratus (21-16)#46.The Rock vs Lance Storm (22-19)#47.The Rock vs Owen Hart (18-12)#48.The Rock vs Kurt Angle (5-24)#49.Kurt Angle vs Ken Shamrock (36-5)#50.Kurt Angle vs Rob Van Dam (23-13)#51.Kurt Angle vs "King Kong" Bruiser Brody (20-10)#52.Kurt Angle vs Mick Foley (31-6)#53.John Morrison vs Braden Walker (36-11)#54.John Morrison vs Kofi Kingston (34-5)#55.John Morrison vs CM Punk (14-28)#56.CM Punk vs Tajiri (28-20)#57.CM Punk vs Booker T (24-23)#58.CM Punk vs Samoa Joe (53-4)#59.CM Punk vs "Macho Man" Randy Savage (19-36)#60."Macho Man" Randy Savage vs "Adorable" Adrian Adonis (47-2)#61."Macho Man" Randy Savage vs Goldberg (49-4)#62."Macho Man" Randy Savage vs "Mr. Perfect" Curt Hennig (31-38)#63."Mr.Perfect" Curt Hennig vs "Diamond" Dallas Page (51-17)#64."Mr. Perfect" Curt Hennig vs William Regal (37-18)#65."Mr. Perfect" Curt Hennig vs Brock Lesnar (48-4)#66."Mr. Perfect" Curt Hennig vs Eddie Guerrero (39-40)#67. Eddie Guerrero vs Arn Anderson (33-22)#68. Eddie Guerrero vs Jake "The Snake" Roberts (37-36)#69. Eddie Guerrero vs Sting (41-16)#70. Chris Jericho vs Eddie Guerrero (45-18)#71. Chris Jericho vs Rey Mysterio (63-3)#72. Chris Jericho vs Kevin Nash (54-12)#73. Chris Jericho vs Dean Malenko (39-9)#74. Chris Jericho vs Ricky Steamboat (41-30)#75. Masato Tanaka vs Mike Awesome (24-18)#76. Masato Tanaka vs X-Pac (34-16)#77. Masato Tanaka vs Rikishi (36-13)#78. Brian Pillman vs Masato Tanaka (31-13)#79. Brian Pillman vs Road Dogg (44-7)#80. Ultimo Dragon vs Brian Pillman (29-28)#81. Ultimo Dragon vs Goldust (35-19)#82. Ultimo Dragon vs Barry Windham (36-9)#83. Ultimo Dragon vs Randy Orton (35-34)#84. Edge vs Ultimo Dragon (48-8)#85. Edge vs Jeff Hardy (54-5)#86. Edge vs Razor Ramon (44-21)#87. Ted Dibiase vs Edge (39-33)#88. Ted Dibiase vs Doink the Clown (59-4)#89. Ted Dibiase vs Rick Rude (34-20)#90. Ted Dibiase vs. Christian (39-32)#91. Ted Dibiase vs. Bret Hart (24-55)#92. Bret Hart vs. Scott Steiner (56-8)#93. Bret Hart vs. Christopher Daniels (47-15)#94. Bret Hart vs. Triple H (40-22)#95. Bret Hart vs. Shawn Michaels (26-47)#96. Shawn Michaels vs. Marty Jannetty (54-7)#97. Shawn Michaels vs. Bryan Danielson (36-12)#98. Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Benoit (38-33)#99. Shawn Michaels vs. The Rock (44-34)#100. Earthquake vs. Vader (10-65)#101. Vader vs. Bam Bam Bigelow (33-32)#102. Vader vs. The Great Muta (32-29)#103. Vader vs. Mick Foley (16-42)#104. Mick Foley vs. Al Snow (49-7)#105. Mick Foley vs. Jerry Lynn (41-11)#106. Mick Foley vs. Rob Van Dam (24-38)#107. Rob Van Dam vs. Tommy Dreamer (52-4)#108. Rob Van Dam vs. John Morrison (54-14)#109. Rob Van Dam vs. Owen Hart (36-36)#110. Rob Van Dam vs. The Undertaker (22-53)#111. The Undertaker vs. Owen Hart (62-16)#112. The Undertaker vs. Kane (63-3)#113. The Undertaker vs. Diamond Dallas Page (51-18)#114. The Undertaker vs. Ric Flair (44-43)#115. John "Bradshaw" Layfield vs. Ron Simmons (33-25)#116. John "Bradshaw" Layfield vs. Juventud Guerrera (28-19)#117. John "Bradshaw" Layfield vs. The Big Show (25-39)#118. The Big Show vs. Sid (50-10)#119. The Big Show vs. Lance Storm (18-48)#120. Lance Storm vs. Meng (65-7)#121. Lance Storm vs. John Cena (53-18)#122. Lance Storm vs. Sting (23-50)#123. Sting vs. The Ultimate Warrior (57-18)#124. Sting vs. Dusty Rhodes (50-24)#125. Sting vs. CM Punk (41-32)#126. Sting vs. Randy Savage (27-50)#127. Randy Savage vs. Jim Duggan (65-7)#128. Randy Savage vs. AJ Styles (64-13)#129. Randy Savage vs. Booker T (61-16)#130. Randy Savage vs. Roddy Piper (55-27)#131. Rick Martel vs. Tito Santana (35-29)#132. Rick Martel vs. Shane Douglas (29-36)#133. Shane Douglas vs. Rhino (35-38)#134. Rhino vs. Jeff Jarrett (30-36)#135. Jeff Jarrett vs. Mike Rotunda (30-38)#136. Mike Rotunda vs. Chris Kanyon (44-24)#137. Mike Rotunda vs. Barry Windham (38-17)#138. Mike Rotunda vs. Scott Hall (11-63)#139. Scott Hall vs. Goldberg (60-17)#140. Scott Hall vs. Kevin Nash (47-31)#141. Scott Hall vs. Brian Pillman (44-34)#142. Scott Hall vs. Edge (26-64)#143. Edge vs. Matt Hardy (71-12)#144. Edge vs. Arn Anderson (38-34)#145. Edge vs. Randy Orton (45-36)#146. Edge vs. Triple H (29-47)#147. Triple H vs. Batista (65-8)#148. Triple H vs. Raven (54-25)#149. Triple H vs. Ricky Steamboat (44-43)#150. Triple H vs. Eddie Guerrero (43-56)#151. Eddie Guerrero vs. Trish Stratus (58-12)#152. Eddie Guerrero vs. The Great Muta (47-11)#153. Eddie Guerrero vs. Curt Hennig (34-43)#154. Curt Hennig vs. Jerry Lawler (63-9)#155. Curt Hennig vs. Hulk Hogan (54-17)#156. Curt Hennig vs. Christian (47-26)#157. Curt Hennig vs. The Rock (31-44)#158. The Rock vs. Steve Blackman (54-22)#159. The Rock vs. Vader (54-14)#160. The Rock vs. Mick Foley (48-22)#161. The Rock vs. Bret Hart (42-49)#162. Bret Hart vs. Davey Boy Smith (70-8)#163. Bret Hart vs. Dean Malenko (52-16)#164. Bret Hart vs. Owen Hart (47-18)#165. Bret Hart vs. Ric Flair (53-32)#166. Barry Darsow vs. Ed Leslie (45-13)#167. Barry Darsow vs. Jacques Rougeau (17-38)#168. Jacques Rougeau vs. Evan Bourne (18-49)#169. Evan Bourne vs. Mr. Anderson (38-16)#170. Evan Bourne vs. Bryan Danielson(10-50)#171. Bryan Danielson vs. Billy Gunn (56-16)#172. Bryan Danielson vs. The Miz (42-26)#173. Bryan Danielson vs. Chris Benoit (27-40)#174. Chris Benoit vs. Chavo Guerrero (53-8)#175. Chris Benoit vs. Perry Saturn (48-13)#176. Chris Benoit vs. Lance Storm (36-21)#177. Chris Benoit vs. Ted Dibiase (41-34)#178. TAKA Michinoku vs. Sho Funaki (51-9)#179. TAKA Michinoku vs. Santino Marella (48-9)#180. TAKA Michinoku vs. Rey Mysterio (23-41)#181. Rey Mysterio vs. Gregory Helms (34-8)#182. Rey Mysterio vs. Jeff Hardy (41-18)#183. Rey Mysterio vs. Diamond Dallas Page (34-37)#184. Diamond Dallas Page vs. Big Boss Man (49-5)#185. Diamond Dallas Page vs. Yoshihiro Tajiri (34-18)#186. Diamond Dallas Page vs. CM Punk (19-41)#187. CM Punk vs. Terry Funk (35-18)#188. CM Punk vs. Kane (40-13)#189. CM Punk vs. Rob Van Dam (39-22)#190. CM Punk vs. "Rowdy" Roddy Piper (39-37)#191. Ted DiBiase, Jr. vs. Cody Rhodes (23-36)#192. Cody Rhodes vs. Goldust (10-51)#193. Goldust vs. Shelton Benjamin (41-22)#194. Goldust vs. Rick Rude (21-37)#195. Rick Rude vs. Rick Martel (42-6)#196. Rick Rude vs. The Big Show (30-15)#197. Rick Rude vs. Jake Roberts (26-38)#198. Jake Roberts vs. John "Bradshaw" Layfield (50-16)#199. Jake Roberts vs. Arn Anderson (39-31)#200. Jake Roberts vs. Brian Pillman (34-20)#201. Jake Roberts vs. Edge (42-28)#202. Raven vs. Shane Douglas (45-6)#203. Raven vs. R-Truth (39-6)#204. Raven vs. Booker T (31-40)#205. Booker T vs. Jerry Lawler (37-20)#206. Booker T vs. Sheamus (51-11)#207. Booker T vs. Christian (21-33)#208. Christian vs. Jushin "Thunder" Liger (30-21)#209. Christian vs. Kevin Nash (30-24)#210. Christian vs. Randy Orton (41-22)#211. Christian vs. Eddie Guerrero (10-66)#212. Eddie Guerrero vs. Andre the Giant (55-16)#213. Eddie Guerrero vs. Hulk Hogan (47-29)#214. Eddie Guerrero vs. Scott Hall (47-18)#215. Eddie Guerrero vs. The Rock (28-40)#216. The Rock vs. William Regal (39-17)#217. The Rock vs. Brock Lesnar (47-13)#218. The Rock vs. Sting (31-19)#219. The Rock vs. Triple H (40-27)#220. Ahmed Johnson vs. Ezekiel Jackson (41-11)#221. Ahmed Johnson vs. The Godfather (6-44)#222. The Godfather vs. D'Lo Brown (9-42)#223. D'Lo Brown vs. Val Venis (29-20)#224. D'Lo Brown vs. Mark Henry (36-23)#225. D'Lo Brown vs. The Miz (10-46)#226. The Miz vs. John Morrison (52-13)#227. The Miz vs. Dolph Ziggler (39-49)#228. Dolph Ziggler vs. Wade Barrett (42-21)#229. Dolph Ziggler vs. John Cena (38-31)#230. Dolph Ziggler vs. Lance Storm (38-37)#231. Dolph Ziggler vs. Curt Hennig (18-55)#233. Curt Hennig vs. Zack Ryder (62-8)#234. Curt Hennig vs. Vader (45-14)#234. Curt Hennig vs. Owen Hart (38-22)#235. Curt Hennig vs. Ric Flair (48-39)#236. Jesse James vs. Billy Gunn (16-38)#237. Billy Gunn vs. Sabu (40-15)#238. Billy Gunn vs. Scott Steiner (20-38)#239. Scott Steiner vs. Billy Kidman (28-26)#240. Scott Steiner vs. Alberto Del Rio (25-34)#241. Alberto Del Rio vs. X-Pac (29-25)#242. Alberto Del Rio vs. Cody Rhodes (19-44)#243. Cody Rhodes vs. Kofi Kingston (49-7)#244. Cody Rhodes vs. Dusty Rhodes (30-30)#245. Cody Rhodes vs. Goldust (18-31)#246. Goldust vs. Dusty Rhodes (31-15)#247. Goldust vs. Vader (29-39)#248. Vader vs. Yokozuna (55-8)#249. Vader vs Stan Hansen (31-10)#250. Vader vs. Mick Foley (15-41)#251. Mick Foley vs. Terry Funk (34-18)#252. Mick Foley vs. Santino Marella (60-2)#253. Mick Foley vs. Diamond Dallas Page (40-19)#254. Mick Foley vs. Edge (49-28)#255. Tajiri vs. Super Crazy (62-4)#256. Tajiri vs The Great Muta (17-35)#257. The Great Muta vs. Ultimo Dragon (32-28)#258. The Great Muta vs. Brian Pillman (32-21)#259. The Great Muta vs. Booker T (24-36)#260. Booker T vs. Ron Simmons (50-13)#261. Booker T vs. John "Bradshaw" Layfield (37-20)#262. Booker T vs. Daniel Bryan (28-20)#263. Booker T vs. "Rowdy" Roddy Piper (20-40)#264. "Rowdy" Roddy Piper vs. "Cowboy" Bob Orton (48-6)#265. "Rowdy" Roddy Piper vs. Christian (30-13)#266. "Rowdy" Roddy Piper vs. Scott Hall (37-15)#267. "Rowdy" Roddy Piper vs. Eddie Guerrero (31-32)#268. Eddie Guerrero vs. Mr. Anderson (56-1)#269. Eddie Guerrero vs. Rey Mysterio (41-11)#270. Eddie Guerrero vs. Ted DiBiase (41-13)#271. Eddie Guerrero vs. Triple H (40-32)#272. Kane vs. Ryback (50-15)#273. Kane vs. Sid (28-23)#274. Kane vs. Big Show (41-13)#275. Kane vs. Sting (12-46)#276. Sting vs. Lex Luger (49-2)#277. Sting vs. Rick Rude (30-28)#278. Sting vs. Rob Van Dam (37-12)#279. Sting vs. Hulk Hogan (29-30)#280. Hulk Hogan vs. Andre "The Giant" (46-14)#281. Hulk Hogan vs. Jeff Hardy (49-11)#282. Hulk Hogan vs. Ultimate Warrior (37-15)

Previous Better Wrestler Hall of Fame"Stone Cold" Steve AustinTazKurt AngleChris Jericho"The Heartbreak Kid" Shawn MichaelsThe Undertaker"Macho Man" Randy SavageBret "Hitman" HartChris BenoitCM PunkJake "The Snake" RobertsThe Rock"Mr. Perfect" Curt HennigMick FoleyEddie GuerreroHulk Hogan

Previous Best Wrestler Tournament HistoryROUND 1#1. Randy Savage vs. Taz (72-4)#2. The Undertaker vs. Steve Austin (42-42)#3. Chris Jericho vs. Jake Roberts (52-15)#4. Bret Hart vs. CM Punk (44-24)#5. Curt Hennig vs. The Rock (27-31)#6. Mick Foley vs. Kurt Angle (18-41)#7. Eddie Guerrero vs. Shawn Michaels (13-50)#8. Chris Benoit vs. Hulk Hogan (28-36)ROUND 2#9. Randy Savage vs. Hulk Hogan (41-18)#10. The Undertaker vs. Steve Austin vs. Shawn Michaels (14-22-26)#11. Chris Jericho vs. Kurt Angle (30-27)#12. Bret Hart vs. The Rock (32-34)ROUND 3#13. Randy Savage vs. The Rock (41-22)#14. Chris Jericho vs. Shawn Michaels (20-43)ROUND 4#15. Randy Savage vs Shawn Michaels (25-48)

[Destor]

By popular demand

[Ruien]

Cena. Andre is 100 percent a legend and a beast but Cena is still a Rushmore wrestler.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Andre because he's Andre.

[#1-norm-fan]

Gooooodddammit. Gotta think on this one.

[Destor]

Originally Posted by Ruien Cena. Andre is 100 percent a legend and a beast but Cena is still a Rushmore wrestler.

SO your argument is Andre isnt?

[Mr. Nerfect]

Andre the Giant is overlooked by many simply as a big man. His work was genius. His work as Monster Roussimoff was athletic and savvy. The dude legitimately drew, and in my opinion, is far more recognizable than John Cena. Everybody has heard of Andre the Giant. His presence on the Obey t-shirts lends him more contemporary cultural significance than Cena.

Plus, Andre was in The Princess Bride. That's a more prominent contribution to cinematography than anything Cena has ever done.


Monster Roussimoff (aka Andre the Giant) vs... by 25COOLPIN17

[#1-norm-fan]

I always try to factor in the era/booking in order to judge the wrestler himself more fairly in these things. Cena is fucking great and would have been an even bigger star in any other era. That being said, I still don't think I can put him over Andre.

[mike adamle]

My vote is probably biased since I was born in the early 90's but Cena easily based on how much more he entertained me than Andre. I've seen some of Andre's older work and it was fun. I get that Andre is probably as popular as Hogan and Cena is a tier below that. But I'd much rather watch Cena than Andre in a wrestling show. I always wonder how much of a pop culture icon The Big Show could've been if he had been presented like the larger than life Andre.

[Destor]

I will abstain for now. Noid has me leaning Andre. Will wait to see if anyone can push me the otherway.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Originally Posted by Noid Andre the Giant is overlooked by many simply as a big man. His work was genius. His work as Monster Roussimoff was athletic and savvy. The dude legitimately drew, and in my opinion, is far more recognizable than John Cena. Everybody has heard of Andre the Giant. His presence on the Obey t-shirts lends him more contemporary cultural significance than Cena. Plus, Andre was in The Princess Bride. That's a more prominent contribution to cinematography than anything Cena has ever done. Monster Roussimoff (aka Andre the Giant) vs... by 25COOLPIN17

Well said.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Thanks. I think "Andre for being Andre" kind of captures it too.

[Ruien]

Originally Posted by Destor SO your argument is Andre isnt?

Correct. Only 4 go in Mount Rushmore and Andre isn't one of them.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Surely Andre before Cena. Cena is cool and all but he ain't touching a wrestling Mount Rushmore.

[Ruien]

The man who carried the company for a decade while transitioning into a PG era isn't on there?

[Mr. Nerfect]

Who are the four biggest stars in American wrestling history? You'd surely have to put Hogan, Rock and Austin up the first names that come to mind, but after that you're probably looking at Andre, really. Or...Flair?

[Destor]

Flair wayyyyyyy before Rock

[Destor]

4 year career, cmon. Hot 4 years...but doesnt touch Flair

[Mr. Nerfect]

Originally Posted by Ruien The man who carried the company for a decade while transitioning into a PG era isn't on there?

Ratings have steadily decreased, and a lot of people don't seem to think much, critically, of the PG era. It's an era that has seen their PPV business go dark.

Andre helped put wrestling on the map. He's a legitimate cultural figure. I was watching an episode of QI recently where Stephen Fry was talking about his significance. Andre's not just some obscure big guy who worked with Hogan -- he helped fill up buildings and helped create a myth around pro-wrestling that allowed Hogan and Vince to springboard the Rock 'n' Wrestling movement. He wasn't just a pushed guy, regardless of how talented and hard working that pushed guy is.

Cena doesn't top Flair for an American wrestling Mt. Rushmore. Dave Meltzer makes the case that Triple H drew more money for the WWE in the 2000-2010 period than Cena actually did, which is a sad state of affairs, given that Triple H was a negligible factor when working with The Rock during their hottest year.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Originally Posted by Destor 4 year career, cmon. Hot 4 years...but doesnt touch Flair

Yeah, okay, I'll cop to that. I was thinking more about the magnitude of those four years, but that might not really be the point of a Rushmore.

[Mr. Nerfect]

These conversations always get dragged into modernity too. Should there be a Frank Gotch, George Hackenschmidt or Strangler Lewis up there?

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Originally Posted by Noid Ratings have steadily decreased, and a lot of people don't seem to think much, critically, of the PG era. It's an era that has seen their PPV business go dark. Andre helped put wrestling on the map. He's a legitimate cultural figure. I was watching an episode of QI recently where Stephen Fry was talking about his significance. Andre's not just some obscure big guy who worked with Hogan -- he helped fill up buildings and helped create a myth around pro-wrestling that allowed Hogan and Vince to springboard the Rock 'n' Wrestling movement. He wasn't just a pushed guy, regardless of how talented and hard working that pushed guy is. Cena doesn't top Flair for an American wrestling Mt. Rushmore. Dave Meltzer makes the case that Triple H drew more money for the WWE in the 2000-2010 period than Cena actually did, which is a sad state of affairs, given that Triple H was a negligible factor when working with The Rock during their hottest year.

Pretty much.

[#1-norm-fan]

Originally Posted by Noid These conversations always get dragged into modernity too. Should there be a Frank Gotch, George Hackenschmidt or Strangler Lewis up there?

Could make a case for Lou Thesz and Gorgeous George, too.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Originally Posted by Ruien The man who carried the company for a decade while transitioning into a PG era isn't on there?

I mean "carried" a company that had no risk of falling apart, and had already won the war, and the company has essentially been shit since he's been on top. Mount Rushmore is for guys who put wrestling on the map, not for guys who've kinda just been there.

Andre the Giant is a historical figure. John Cena is kind of just well... John Cena.

[Mr. Nerfect]

The WWE ran off their audience in order to jam Cena in, and now their current audience depends on Cena.

[Maluco]

Cena is great, but he is also overrated. Seems the internet completely 180'ed on him over his US title reign but he was absolute muck for a LOT of that preceding decade.

Sure he suffered from PG and repetitive booking, and yeah, he is funny, can talk and has great matches with the right opponents, but he still has spent long periods with an extremely stale character, had some horrendously boring feuds and not really evolved a whole lot as a personality in a time of ratings decline and a lack of competition for the top spot in the company.

He is great, but he is Warrior, Hitman, even Macho Man great in my opinion. I love them all...but they are not that upper echelon. Cena was never close to Austin, Hogan, Rock in terms of sheer star power.

Andre was close...very close, if not there already. Not only does he have global appeal, but he was a massive draw and THE guy that handed the torch over to Hulk Hogan himself.

He was tremendously respected by his peers and cherished by Vince Sr. He was unique, larger than life and, like Noida said, he could wrestle too!

Cena is great, he is an 8,5 out of 10 guy for me in the history of the business, but Andre is a 9 for me as an overall package, just under the very best.

[Mr. Nerfect]

The US Title reign did a lot of for perceptions of Cena, but the Brock squash was cathartic too.

[DAMN iNATOR]

Originally Posted by Destor 4 year career, cmon. Hot 4 years...but doesnt touch Flair

But as of right now, for me personally, anyway, Rock still makes it, but I digress.

As to the poll itself, you've got a guy with 16 world titles to tie Flair, with one which lasted a bit over a year, and on the other side you've got a truly iconic figure from wrestling's past who went 15 years undefeated, had a long and storied rivalry with Hogan and was the inspiration/template for The Giant/Big Show. André in a landslide for me.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

lol inspiration/template for the big show. Way to go Gooby.

[A.J.K]

Had to go with the 8th Wonder of the world.

Cena has been the flag bearer for WWE a good 11 years now. But for all he has done, he just doesn't come close. Andre had a mystique about him, he was just an awesome presence in the ring.

And Without that historical moment of Hogan Slamming him at Wrestlemania 3, WWE might have never really peaked. People still talk about that moment even today.

[Lock Jaw]

To me, this is pretty much John Cena vs. Brock Lesnar again.

It comes down to a guy who is a "total package" in and out of the ring vs. a guy whose "mystique" and "aura" was off the charts.

I voted John Cena over Brock Lesnar, and I'm going to have to do the same with Andre.

A lot of the time I ask myself if I were running a wrestling company, who would I want on my roster. I'd think about it a bit, and then I'd choose John Cena.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

lol I would not want John Cena (at least how he's been written and presented) in my main event, even though I respect him. Maybe presented as someone/something else I'd be down with him but I can only see what's been given to me.

[Sepholio]

I would put Cena on my Mt Rushmore. Andre wouldn't make the cut. Andres peak imo was when he was basically playing second fiddle to Hogan. Cena IS this eras Hogan or SCSA. He is the top dog and has been for over a decade now.

Plus, as blasphemous as it is to say this, Andre never really did it for me.

[Destor]

Originally Posted by Seph I would put Cena on my Mt Rushmore. Andre wouldn't make the cut. Andres peak imo was when he was basically playing second fiddle to Hogan. Cena IS this eras Hogan or SCSA. He is the top dog and has been for over a decade now. Plus, as blasphemous as it is to say this, Andre never really did it for me.

Counter argument though (because im hoping you can sway my vote) cena was the "hogan" of an era drastically inferior to every era except for the HBK/Hart era.

[Sepholio]

Also when you are booked to go undefeated for 15 years you pretty much automatically become a legend. A legend because that's what the booker wanted you to be. Goldberg went undefeated for like a year and a half and look how that made him a star even though in reality he is balls.

[Sepholio]

Originally Posted by Destor Counter argument though (because im hoping you can sway my vote) cena was the "hogan" of an era drastically inferior to every era except for the HBK/Hart era.

You are absolutely right here. It has been a bad era. But that isn't his fault. That's the Era of PG booking. Things were already going downhill before he became the draw. It should say something for him that when shit gets bad they pretty much fall back on Cena as the only hope to salvage things. Because no one else other than part time special attractions from a more popular Era can do it for them. Every time Cena goes on hiatus it seems like there is a legit downturn in the ratings and the quality of the whole product. That's why they hype him up so hard imo...they know he is the only real star they have that people will buy into.

I often wonder how well Cena would have drawn in the attitude Era when he wouldn't have been held back or dumbed down. And even though it is pure conjecture....I think he would have legit been the biggest thing in wrestling history. He can pull groups of people in that none of the others could have. Young people would have flocked to him. He would have run circles around everyone other than the rock promo wise. He was better in ring than SCSA or The Rock or HHH. He is a legit total package, a true star, and he has been held back to protect Linda McMahon political career.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Linda McMahon's political career has nothing to do with it. You can do PG and make it good. It's just bad booking, and in some cases, poor execution from Cena. He's a hell of a talent but IMO would have gotten chewed up in the shark tank during the attitude era.

[Sepholio]

I guess what I am getting at is basically that every era has had a handful of people who achieved true stardom. It seems like since the PG era has come around that only one man has been able to adapt and achieve that level of stardom within the confines of this historically bad era. John Cena. While everyone else seems to struggle to carve out a niche in this era, Cena has consistently been several steps ahead. Who else is there? Orton? Because the distance between them is massive imo and Orton is one of a very few people I would list as draws during PG Bullshit.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

The same argument you made for Andre and Goldberg can be made for Cena. He's been more protected than anyone other than HHH.

[Blonde Moment]

Andre without a doubt. Without Andre could there even be a WWE today?

Rushmore:
Hogan-Andre-Flair-Rhodes
Hart-Austin-Hbk-Rock
Angle-HHH-Lesnar-Cena