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Old 06-05-2013, 01:31 AM   #121
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The one guy who can't get the hottest crowd of the year going? Nice.
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Old 06-05-2013, 01:33 AM   #122
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Randy Orton had to have raped your family for you to be this bitter about others liking him and force yourself to believe their reasoning is invalid.
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Old 06-05-2013, 01:34 AM   #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Narcissus View Post
Orton is also a known huge fucking asshole as well. He got Amy Weber, Palmer Cannon, and Ken Kennedy fired because he's a child. On top of that, he's fairly unreliable, as he's had a couple wellness violations. When I add these things to him not entertaining me, it becomes clear (to me at least) that this guy should not be invested in too much further.
He is a huge unreliable douche who should probably not have too much stock put into his future. This is a true statement.
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Old 06-05-2013, 01:37 AM   #124
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He will and should however stay hovering around the main event though without putting him in major situations because he's a sure thing when you need a random great match on Raw from a guy that the crowd is gonna pop for.
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Old 06-05-2013, 01:38 AM   #125
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I don't buy that Orton is a good 'psychologist' either.

"Psychology" is one of the most infuriatingly nebulous terms in the entire wrestling lexicon, and I've never seen anyone come to any sort of consensus on what it actually is.

Going by my personal definition of it, psychology is being able to come up with moves and spots specifically in response to whatever is happening in the course of the match, and the larger storyline. Y'know, doing what the match demands rather than what your 'signature' movelist prescribes.

Orton just kinda has the same match every night, going along the traditional 'main event' style formula. Sell for a little bit, then completely stop selling, hit some limp-armed clotheslines and then the falling powerslam (which admittedly is nice, but Goldust and Punk both did/do it better), hit that horrifically contrived and unconvincing elevated DDT, setup for the RKO, miss it, sell for maybe thirty more seconds, then hit the RKO. Every goddamn match. That's not 'psychology,' that's just a checklist.

So no, I really don't see Orton as a good ring psychologist.
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Old 06-05-2013, 01:41 AM   #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
And this is the part where you just ignore the upcoming quotes and pretend what you just said is true to try to validate your point to yourself...
Yeah? Let's see....

Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan
Orton is quite possibly the best in-ring psychologist in wrestling today. The man can be jobbed left and right and be involved in boring storylines and still get the crowd going during his matches (Post-WrestleMania crowd excluded but... I mean... come on.)

So, after years of having him shoved down their throats, the fans react to Orton almost as well as they react to Kane. The biggest difference being that Kane's bad storylines and job stretches tended to have beginnings and endings, and arcs and decent matches and entertainment vale and...

So, yeah, Kane is pretty fun.

Wait, I was talking about Orton. Yeah, Orton is boring as an individual, is what I meant to get to, it's not just his storylines. He's just incredibly dull and repetative in speech and action, which is where the whole "psychological mastery" claim, starts to fall apart like a cobweb in a hurricane.

Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan
As a face he was fucking money in the Christian feud and in the Mark Henry feud. If you want a good example of how amazing Orton is in the ring just look at those Mark Henry matches. The one where he lost the title and the Hell in a Cell rematch. Probably the best matches Mark Henry has ever had. I can't even think of a close third. Instead of Henry just looking like a generic monster they actually put on matches that made it seem like Orton was a stud but just couldn't quite overcome. It was awesome storytelling. Storytelling you can't find most of the time in today's WWE where every match is basically the same.

O.k., again, saying "he was money" and "he's a stud" is not actually saying anything. You honestly expect me to give Orton credit for Christian having a good storyline? You think it was he who somehow made Henry "less generic"? Not only are these just silly things to say after ten years of observing Orton in television, but you're still not saying fucking WHY you believe anything you're saying. How has this simple fact not yet occurred to you?
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Old 06-05-2013, 01:42 AM   #127
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#1wwf-fan Where would you list Triple H vs Randy Orton on a list of top Wrestlemania main events?
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Old 06-05-2013, 01:49 AM   #128
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Quote:
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#1wwf-fan Where would you list Triple H vs Randy Orton on a list of top Wrestlemania main events?
It was awful.
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Old 06-05-2013, 01:50 AM   #129
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Can't blame Orton for that. Look at Triple H's horrendous record of Mania match quality.
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Old 06-05-2013, 01:51 AM   #130
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Shitty promo guy, too.
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Old 06-05-2013, 01:53 AM   #131
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He's been involved in some great angles, and he has had good matches, but he isn't the future of the company to me. That ship has sailed. He missed his golden opportunity IMO.
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Old 06-05-2013, 01:56 AM   #132
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So, after years of having him shoved down their throats, the fans react to Orton almost as well as they react to Kane. The biggest difference being that Kane's bad storylines and job stretches tended to have beginnings and endings, and arcs and decent matches and entertainment vale and...

So, yeah, Kane is pretty fun.

Wait, I was talking about Orton. Yeah, Orton is boring as an individual, is what I meant to get to, it's not just his storylines. He's just incredibly dull and repetative in speech and action, which is where the whole "psychological mastery" claim, starts to fall apart like a cobweb in a hurricane.

O.k., again, saying "he was money" and "he's a stud" is not actually saying anything. You honestly expect me to give Orton credit for Christian having a good storyline? You think it was he who somehow made Henry "less generic"? Not only are these just silly things to say after ten years of observing Orton in television, but you're still not saying fucking WHY you believe anything you're saying. How has this simple fact not yet occurred to you?[/QUOTE]

A) Orton is more naturally over than Kane. Let's not kid ourselves. If neither is involved in anything interesting for 6 months, Orton gets a better pop. Not only entrance-wise but during his matches which is the more important thing. Orton can get a crowd going during a match like Kane cannot.

B) How dare I say "He's money" or "He's a stud". I never claimed those were fucking reasons. lol They're on par with you saying "He's shit". I also never mentioned anything about Christian's storyline. Or Henry being less generic. I was talking about the matches. Clearly. Have you resorted to putting words in my mouth AFTER QUOTING WHAT I SAID?
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Old 06-05-2013, 01:58 AM   #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nowhere Man View Post
I don't buy that Orton is a good 'psychologist' either.

"Psychology" is one of the most infuriatingly nebulous terms in the entire wrestling lexicon, and I've never seen anyone come to any sort of consensus on what it actually is.

Going by my personal definition of it, psychology is being able to come up with moves and spots specifically in response to whatever is happening in the course of the match, and the larger storyline. Y'know, doing what the match demands rather than what your 'signature' movelist prescribes.

Orton just kinda has the same match every night, going along the traditional 'main event' style formula. Sell for a little bit, then completely stop selling, hit some limp-armed clotheslines and then the falling powerslam (which admittedly is nice, but Goldust and Punk both did/do it better), hit that horrifically contrived and unconvincing elevated DDT, setup for the RKO, miss it, sell for maybe thirty more seconds, then hit the RKO. Every goddamn match. That's not 'psychology,' that's just a checklist.

So no, I really don't see Orton as a good ring psychologist.
I consider psychology to basically be in-ring storytelling. Most of the time on Raw or Smackdown it feels like two guys who go out, they know about how much time they have and they just perform while waiting for the finish. Bryan vs Ryback last night, even taking the crowd response out of the equation was fucking brilliant storytelling during a match for example.

All of his matches when he was WHC told a story. I gave the example of his matches against Mark Henry because Henry, while solid, isn't a guy known for wowing you in the ring. And they told a story. Henry's role was the unstoppable monster and Orton was the babyface "king" of Smackdown basically. Both losses by Orton could have ended with a "... That's it?" reaction but he did a great job making it look like he was giving it all and falling short against an unstoppable monster. They told a great story. He came out looking like a million bucks while making Henry look like a million and one. That's not easy to do.
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Old 06-05-2013, 01:59 AM   #134
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Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
B) How dare I say "He's money" or "He's a stud". I never claimed those were fucking reasons. lol They're on par with you saying "He's shit".
I'm glad you agree with us.
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Old 06-05-2013, 01:59 AM   #135
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As I said, being popular is not the same as being good. McDonald's makes way more money than any five-star steakhouse you can name; that doesn't mean their rubbery faux-meat patties are better than a porterhouse. Orton being more over than Kane is a poor indication of either man's quality.
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Old 06-05-2013, 02:00 AM   #136
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Quote:
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Can't blame Orton for that. Look at Triple H's horrendous record of Mania match quality.
To be fair, I thought his match with Sheamus wasn't that good either and I know a lot of people, including myself, consider Sheamus to be pretty good in the ring.
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Old 06-05-2013, 02:01 AM   #137
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I'm glad you agree with us.
Oh now you're just being silly.
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Old 06-05-2013, 02:05 AM   #138
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As I said, being popular is not the same as being good. McDonald's makes way more money than any five-star steakhouse you can name; that doesn't mean their rubbery faux-meat patties are better than a porterhouse. Orton being more over than Kane is a poor indication of either man's quality.
Different subjects. But the ability to get a crowd that's been bored most of the night going during a match is a pretty good ability. Yes it's based on popularity but I mean... isn't being able to get people into what you're doing a good thing?

Hell, The Rock had pretty much depended SOLELY on crowd reaction to cut a "great promo" since coming back.
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Old 06-05-2013, 02:08 AM   #139
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So, after years of having him shoved down their throats, the fans react to Orton almost as well as they react to Kane. The biggest difference being that Kane's bad storylines and job stretches tended to have beginnings and endings, and arcs and decent matches and entertainment vale and...

So, yeah, Kane is pretty fun.

Wait, I was talking about Orton. Yeah, Orton is boring as an individual, is what I meant to get to, it's not just his storylines. He's just incredibly dull and repetative in speech and action, which is where the whole "psychological mastery" claim, starts to fall apart like a cobweb in a hurricane.

O.k., again, saying "he was money" and "he's a stud" is not actually saying anything. You honestly expect me to give Orton credit for Christian having a good storyline? You think it was he who somehow made Henry "less generic"? Not only are these just silly things to say after ten years of observing Orton in television, but you're still not saying fucking WHY you believe anything you're saying. How has this simple fact not yet occurred to you?
A) Orton is more naturally over than Kane. Let's not kid ourselves. If neither is involved in anything interesting for 6 months, Orton gets a better pop. Not only entrance-wise but during his matches which is the more important thing. Orton can get a crowd going during a match like Kane cannot.

B) How dare I say "He's money" or "He's a stud". I never claimed those were fucking reasons. lol They're on par with you saying "He's shit". I also never mentioned anything about Christian's storyline. Or Henry being less generic. I was talking about the matches. Clearly. Have you resorted to putting words in my mouth AFTER QUOTING WHAT I SAID?[/QUOTE]

Um...no. A feud is a storyline, you dumb shit, so you were hyping up the Orton/Xian storyline. Deal with it. And yes, you absolutely did say "Instead of Henry just looking like a generic monster they actually put on matches that made it seem like Orton was a stud but just couldn't quite overcome," so shut up with trying to unsay it. What are you even hoping to accomplish with those denials?

More to the point, I don't just say "he's shit", I point out the fact that Orton does the exact same list of limited moves -- and that includes technical wrestling like "stomping in a circle" and, if we're lucky, "shinning a downed opponent in the temple" -- in every single match. Often more than once a match, as well. He cannot improv for shit, on the mic or in the ring. He never works with other wrestlers, aiming, instead, to force his clunky move set into the match. No, he does not have good matches; Ziggler, Kingston and others have a good match in spite of him.

My comments about Kane were mostly humorous, except that Kane's character is all over the place because Glenn Jacobs can work with whatever he's given. Orton's character is a mess because of bad writing and his inability to convey...things.
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Old 06-05-2013, 02:10 AM   #140
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Um...no. A feud is a storyline, you dumb shit, so you were hyping up the Orton/Xian storyline. Deal with it. And yes, you absolutely did say "Instead of Henry just looking like a generic monster they actually put on matches that made it seem like Orton was a stud but just couldn't quite overcome," so shut up with trying to unsay it. What are you even hoping to accomplish with those denials?[/QUOTE]

IN THE FEUD... I WENT ON TO TALK ABOUT THE MATCHES... THE MATCHES HE HAD IN THE FEUD... IN A CONVERSATION ABOUT IN-RING PSYCHOLOGY. Stop fucking grasping at straws, you fucking hack. lol
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Old 06-05-2013, 02:13 AM   #141
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So, that biplane has crashed, then. I'm sure the villagers will rebuild.
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Old 06-05-2013, 02:14 AM   #142
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Raging in all caps, and then ending with "lol".

You're sending out mixed messages, and I'm not sure what I think any more.
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Old 06-05-2013, 02:15 AM   #143
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Randy Orton smokes cigarettes so therefore he is subhuman and should be shot. Not given a title shot.
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Old 06-05-2013, 02:15 AM   #144
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Yeah, that lame attempt to move the subject off of you just being a whiny bitch over the fact that others like someone you don't didn't work the first time either. Give it up.
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Old 06-05-2013, 02:16 AM   #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
Um...no. A feud is a storyline, you dumb shit, so you were hyping up the Orton/Xian storyline. Deal with it. And yes, you absolutely did say "Instead of Henry just looking like a generic monster they actually put on matches that made it seem like Orton was a stud but just couldn't quite overcome," so shut up with trying to unsay it. What are you even hoping to accomplish with those denials?
IN THE FEUD... I WENT ON TO TALK ABOUT THE MATCHES... THE MATCHES HE HAD IN THE FEUD... IN A CONVERSATION ABOUT IN-RING PSYCHOLOGY. Stop fucking grasping at straws, you fucking hack. lol[/QUOTE]

Dare I say, serious business?
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Old 06-05-2013, 02:16 AM   #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoJabbaNoBogRoll View Post
Raging in all caps, and then ending with "lol".

You're sending out mixed messages, and I'm not sure what I think any more.
I tend to go all caps when trying to get something through the thickest of skulls. It's a habit.
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Old 06-05-2013, 02:16 AM   #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
Yeah, that lame attempt to move the subject off of you just being a whiny bitch over the fact that others like someone you don't didn't work the first time either. Give it up.
Actually, it's commentary on how your argument is falling apart in a blaze of not-quite-glory, but CLOSE!
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Old 06-05-2013, 02:17 AM   #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shisen Kopf View Post
IN THE FEUD... I WENT ON TO TALK ABOUT THE MATCHES... THE MATCHES HE HAD IN THE FEUD... IN A CONVERSATION ABOUT IN-RING PSYCHOLOGY. Stop fucking grasping at straws, you fucking hack. lol
Dare I say, serious business?[/QUOTE]

I'm glad Shisen is here to lighten the mood.
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Old 06-05-2013, 02:18 AM   #149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
I tend to go all caps when trying to get something through the thickest of skulls. It's a habit.
I'm glad you cleared that up for me, but I'm still gonna be lost until you cover the "lol".
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Old 06-05-2013, 02:18 AM   #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Afterlife View Post
Actually, it's commentary on how your argument is falling apart in a blaze of not-quite-glory, but CLOSE!
Oh. We're basically going back to "You're wrong". Nice.
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Old 06-05-2013, 02:19 AM   #151
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Quote:
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I'm glad you cleared that up for me, but I'm still gonna be lost until you cover the "lol".
Exasperated laughter.
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Old 06-05-2013, 02:19 AM   #152
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Randy is rubbish as they say over in united England emirates. He is boring, generic, and has a shitty diamond cutter. But I still prefer him over Cena. That is the correct answer.
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Old 06-05-2013, 02:20 AM   #153
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Your argument fell apart 2 pages ago, Afterlife.

I said it so it's true.
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Old 06-05-2013, 02:20 AM   #154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
Exasperated laughter.
Thanks.
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Old 06-05-2013, 02:21 AM   #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
Oh. We're basically going back to "You're wrong". Nice.

Two barns and an apple orchard were lost in the following inferno, but the townsfolk were able to come together and kill the blaze before it could spread too far.

The pilot is in critical condition.
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Old 06-05-2013, 02:21 AM   #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shisen Kopf View Post
Randy is rubbish as they say over in united England emirates. He is boring, generic, and has a shitty diamond cutter. But I still prefer him over Cena. That is the correct answer.
I take Shisen's opinion on this matter seriously because we share the same VCR. So I'll have to re-examine everything.
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Old 06-05-2013, 02:22 AM   #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Afterlife View Post

Two barns and an apple orchard were lost in the following inferno, but the townsfolk were able to come together and kill the blaze before it could spread too far.

The pilot is in critical condition.
Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
Your argument fell apart 2 pages ago, Afterlife.
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Old 06-05-2013, 02:23 AM   #158
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#1-wwf-fan wins, guys, so let's all go home.

We had a good run, but the better in-ring psychologist won.
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Old 06-05-2013, 02:23 AM   #159
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Let's turn the conversation to something we all like. Like Tacos. Tacos are good.
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Old 06-05-2013, 02:24 AM   #160
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If a taco was a wrestler in the WWE, Randy Orton would get it fired.
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