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Old 07-20-2014, 10:57 PM   #601
Evil Vito
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This was a pretty meh PPV overall. Amazing opening match and several other solid matches, but nothing really interesting happened. Could have skipped it and tuned in to Raw tomorrow with nothing really being different from last week.

Ah well. SummerSlam should be pretty excellent.
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Old 07-20-2014, 10:57 PM   #602
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Cena cutting a Scott Steiner math promo?
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Old 07-20-2014, 10:57 PM   #603
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Plan C is Max Moon.
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Undecided whether to a) say "You're welcome", or b) wonder if the spaceship is actually headed to Planet Stasiak.
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Old 07-20-2014, 10:58 PM   #604
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C is for Cookie
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Old 07-20-2014, 10:58 PM   #605
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Lol still can't believe Slater eliminated Cesaro
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Old 07-20-2014, 10:59 PM   #606
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The post-show is already over...

Not even ten-minutes long...
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Old 07-20-2014, 10:59 PM   #607
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Cena cutting a Scott Steiner math promo?
I'll take any excuse to post it again.
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Old 07-20-2014, 11:02 PM   #608
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lol scott steiner is the best ever
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Old 07-20-2014, 11:04 PM   #609
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Lol still can't believe Slater eliminated Cesaro
why not? its only the greatest night in the history of our sport
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Old 07-20-2014, 11:07 PM   #610
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It really really is. Lol love this so much.
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Old 07-20-2014, 11:10 PM   #611
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Lol still can't believe Slater eliminated Cesaro
Neither can I, actually.
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Old 07-20-2014, 11:11 PM   #612
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Swagger should have come out wearing gear with the Malaysian flag on it with Rusev defeating Swagger with a Missle Dropkick.
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Old 07-20-2014, 11:13 PM   #613
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Put it in order as best I can.

Tag Match was good. Loved the Big Boot to end the first fall. Great match with the wrong finish.

Paige vs. AJ was alright. Paige looked really sloppy. Nice Shining Wizard for the finish.

Rusev vs. Swagger was pretty damn good. It would have been an excellent '80s match. I guess that's why I liked it. That said, I don't like the idea of Rusev winning by countout. It should have been a double countout, due to Swagger refusing to let the Patriot Lock go outside.

Jericho vs. Wyatt was kind of weird. It was a good enough match. But I wouldn't have gone with Jericho winning, though.

The Rollins-Ambrose stuff was actually well thought out. I laughed at the last one. I was thinking "It'd be hilarious if he was in the trunk." Sure enough.

Battle Royal wasn't bad. But, the first time I saw Miz hiding outside the ring, I knew he was going to win. Can't fault the logic.

World Title match, for a Fatal Fourway, wasn't bad. I knew Cena was going to win, would have preferred Kane only because it would have been different and Reigns isn't ready yet. I swear, Cena's been on top so long, Cornette's 7 year rule has taken effect and they're redoing angles. Mad the match ended so early, I thought something else was going to happen. Instead, PPV ends 10 minutes early (give or take). There's more fuel to the Orton-Reigns fire, which should blow off appropriately at SummerSlam.
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Old 07-20-2014, 11:20 PM   #614
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Old 07-20-2014, 11:21 PM   #615
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vastardikai View Post
Rusev vs. Swagger was pretty damn good. It would have been an excellent '80s match. I guess that's why I liked it. That said, I don't like the idea of Rusev winning by countout. It should have been a double countout, due to Swagger refusing to let the Patriot Lock go outside.
That seems heelish. I like this better. It gives the heel the cheap win and bragging rights going into the rematch. Plus Swagger being knocked out allowed for the post-match attack to draw more heat. Between Raw and this, they're setting up a SummerSlam match brilliantly. A submission match would be a perfect way to finish the rivalry.
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Old 07-20-2014, 11:21 PM   #616
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vastardikai View Post
Put it in order as best I can.

Tag Match was good. Loved the Big Boot to end the first fall. Great match with the wrong finish.

Paige vs. AJ was alright. Paige looked really sloppy. Nice Shining Wizard for the finish.

Rusev vs. Swagger was pretty damn good. It would have been an excellent '80s match. I guess that's why I liked it. That said, I don't like the idea of Rusev winning by countout. It should have been a double countout, due to Swagger refusing to let the Patriot Lock go outside.

Jericho vs. Wyatt was kind of weird. It was a good enough match. But I wouldn't have gone with Jericho winning, though.

The Rollins-Ambrose stuff was actually well thought out. I laughed at the last one. I was thinking "It'd be hilarious if he was in the trunk." Sure enough.

Battle Royal wasn't bad. But, the first time I saw Miz hiding outside the ring, I knew he was going to win. Can't fault the logic.

World Title match, for a Fatal Fourway, wasn't bad. I knew Cena was going to win, would have preferred Kane only because it would have been different and Reigns isn't ready yet. I swear, Cena's been on top so long, Cornette's 7 year rule has taken effect and they're redoing angles. Mad the match ended so early, I thought something else was going to happen. Instead, PPV ends 10 minutes early (give or take). There's more fuel to the Orton-Reigns fire, which should blow off appropriately at SummerSlam.
Pretty much my thought exactly.
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Old 07-20-2014, 11:22 PM   #617
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
That seems heelish. I like this better. It gives the heel the cheap win and bragging rights going into the rematch. Plus Swagger being knocked out allowed for the post-match attack to draw more heat. Between Raw and this, they're setting up a SummerSlam match brilliantly. A submission match would be a perfect way to finish the rivalry.
I get the feeling it's heading that way and that it's going to be a Submission match at SummerSlam, which would actually be pretty good.
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Old 07-20-2014, 11:24 PM   #618
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Tatanka was backstage, niiiiiice
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Old 07-20-2014, 11:27 PM   #619
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Old 07-20-2014, 11:33 PM   #620
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sounds like my decision to avoid this ppv was a wise one
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Old 07-20-2014, 11:36 PM   #621
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I enjoyed the show. Tag title match was great, really liking the Usos' run. Swagger/Rusev was very good, and I was okay with the finish as it furthers the feud. Really liked Ambrose/Rollins stuff, although I was looking forward to a match. Divas title match was good enough. Battle Royal was fun, as they usually are.

Main event was okay. Not a "bad match" but it was a bit weak, I guess. Would have been aces with a DEMON KANE win, though.
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Old 07-20-2014, 11:41 PM   #622
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It was a fine PPV. It had it's flaws like Bray Wyatt's already shitty momentum needlessly falling further into a hole and the end feeling relatively uneventful. There was some good story development though. I actually prefer what happened with Ambrose and Rollins to anything that could have come from a match.
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Old 07-20-2014, 11:49 PM   #623
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Really wish Wyatt would have won. Was honestly shocked that he didn't. But it's Jericho, and I love Jericho so it's cool. Obviously gonna have a rematch at SS and I figure this was always the case because they didn't really have time to build this feud much and with 2 guys this good on the stick, it'd be a shame to not have it go on.

Same for the tag match, absolutely baffled that Harper and Rowan didn't win this one. In saying that though, I noticed they keep plugging the spot of how the wrong Uso got pinned a couple weeks ago and it makes me wonder if they are now going to point out that Harper's shoulder wasn't down for the 3 count during the second fall of the match. Both sides have won a match where the ref 'missed' something now.

Rusev and Swagger was pretty sweet. Was shocked they actually let Lana refer to 'recent current events', kinda WAAAAAY too soon for that, but #Nuclear heat and all. Finish worked for me tbh, Swagger gets cheaply knocked out after dominating Rusev pretty much the whole time, so this one obv keeps going another month. I'd have had Cesaro come down and save Swagger at the end though when he was getting put in the accolade.

Paige and AJ was Paige and AJ. Pretty sloppy match tbh but that's always the case with Paige it seems. Glad AJ retained.

F the battle royal. Just F it. Was happy about Slater getting a little rub from it. Was super stoked that Ziggler made it to the end.....and then the damn Miz. I guess this is his reward for making shitty movies. Oh well, Ziggler gonna get that title at SS.

As for the title match....well, we all knew zOMG CENA WINS. Wasn't quite the finish I was expecting though. Was just really sudden. But meh, Superman's title reign is going to meet it's end soon enough. Plan C gonna whoop that ass.
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Old 07-21-2014, 12:19 AM   #624
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They had something special on their hands with Wyatt after that Royal Rumble match where he beat Daniel Bryan clean after a fucking war. He looked like such a threat. How does WWE consistently start a good thing and then fuck it up royally so often? Holy shit.
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Old 07-21-2014, 12:29 AM   #625
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They had something special on their hands with Wyatt after that Royal Rumble match where he beat Daniel Bryan clean after a fucking war. He looked like such a threat. How does WWE consistently start a good thing and then fuck it up royally so often? Holy shit.
Since he's way over they think losses to legit opponents won't hurt?
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Old 07-21-2014, 12:35 AM   #626
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I think they may be trying to force him back to full-on heel status, tbh. He was getting too many face pops considering what he is supposed to be. I feel like SS might be the beginning of some big things for him.
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Old 07-21-2014, 12:41 AM   #627
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Since he's way over they think losses to legit opponents won't hurt?
That theory has been tested and failed. A lot. It doesn't work. Even The Rock had people get bored with him and start to resent him being on top when the "he can lose constantly and people will still buy into him" theory was tested.
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Old 07-21-2014, 12:42 AM   #628
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I think they may be trying to force him back to full-on heel status, tbh. He was getting too many face pops considering what he is supposed to be. I feel like SS might be the beginning of some big things for him.
I don't see how making him lose and look less credible helps build him more as a heel though. He'll probably get the win back at SummerSlam. Splitting feuds doesn't build a guy up as a credible threat. Especially against a guy who jobs to anyone and everyone.
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Old 07-21-2014, 12:43 AM   #629
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Because he's going to get pissed off about losing, turn on the fans and snap.
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Old 07-21-2014, 12:45 AM   #630
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1) How do you turn on the fans when you were never a face to begin with?

2) Will he become a badass submission machine? Because then I might have to re-evaluate this whole thing.
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Old 07-21-2014, 12:48 AM   #631
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Originally Posted by Seph View Post
I think they may be trying to force him back to full-on heel status, tbh. He was getting too many face pops considering what he is supposed to be. I feel like SS might be the beginning of some big things for him.
If losing made you a heel, Zack Ryder would be the face of the WWE in The Authority.
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Old 07-21-2014, 12:49 AM   #632
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That's just it though. He pretty much turned into a face. The whole "(city name) We're here" thing is a face move. He was cheered over Cena on several occasions. People clap for him and chat for him and sing his song. The freaking cell phone lights.....Those are face reactions and you know it.

What they are doing now is killing off a bunch of the face pops fans were giving to him, or they are at least trying to. Then they can make him the heel he is meant to be and use him against the true faces of the company without the fear of him getting the wrong reactions.
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Old 07-21-2014, 12:50 AM   #633
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If getting cheered over Cena on several occasions makes you a face, then pretty much every heel in the company is a face. Killing off his momentum is fucking retarded. And you act like the "(city name) we're here" thing is something that they can't just... stop doing if they're really concerned with it being a face thing.
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Old 07-21-2014, 12:53 AM   #634
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If getting cheered over Cena on several occasions makes you a face, then pretty much every heel in the company is a face.
Explain the rest of the face reactions he gets then. People love him and they are not supposed to love the heel. Explain why 99% of heels get booed and Bray doesn't? It's because he is getting the wrong reaction.
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Old 07-21-2014, 12:53 AM   #635
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That's just it though. He pretty much turned into a face. The whole "(city name) We're here" thing is a face move. He was cheered over Cena on several occasions. People clap for him and chat for him and sing his song. The freaking cell phone lights.....Those are face reactions and you know it.

What they are doing now is killing off a bunch of the face pops fans were giving to him, or they are at least trying to. Then they can make him the heel he is meant to be and use him against the true faces of the company without the fear of him getting the wrong reactions.
If getting cheered over Cena makes you a face, 95% of the roster is face.

I'll credit you with the rest though, sure. I think that some of it important for the creepy cult leader facet of his gimmick, but it does encroach a bit on the good side for a guy that's supposed to be a sadistic lunatic out to break heroes.

That said, if having the guy lose matches that have no verve or momentum, or having him lose overbooked schmozzes that nobody can care about because they're convoluted messes, is supposed to be the way to make him a top heel, I think we've found why a lot of the roster gets shit-all for reactions now.
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Old 07-21-2014, 12:58 AM   #636
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Explain the rest of the face reactions he gets then. People love him and they are not supposed to love the heel. Explain why 99% of heels get booed and Bray doesn't? It's because he is getting the wrong reaction.
I'm still waiting to hear how killing his momentum is the way to make a heel people love to hate. I'd rather he be getting cheered leading to crazy crowd reactions than for people not to give a fuck at all because he's not really a threat to win matches anyway.

Also, like I said, how is the cheap pop at the beginning of the entrance not something he can just stop doing if they're worried about face reactions? By mentioning that as an issue, you're basically trying to reason that killing his momentum to make the crowd stop caring is a better strategy than simply removing the cheap pop.
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Old 07-21-2014, 01:01 AM   #637
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They aren't killing his momentum, more like stagnating it. Trying to hold it back for now. He went over Cena during that split feud; if they wanted to kill it he would have lost every single match.

They are just trying to kill the face reactions. I don't necessarily agree with how they are doing it, but it's clear that is the desired result. Let's be real, when has he ever actually done shit without aid from Harper and Rowan? Not very often, if ever. Just watch, he's going to completely off the hinges in the next few weeks, pissed off about losing and how people are thinking he is weak and thinking he needs Harper and Rowan to do EVERYTHING for him and then win clean as a whistle over Jericho. He's going to get the rub and we all know it.

They tried the sorta quick push when he went over Bryan early in the year. Then the fans start popping for him like he is king face. Now they are just bringing him back down so they can try again to push him the other way.

But yea let's just keep his momentum going and let him be a face when the company NEEDS him as a heel. He has the potential to be the best heel in YEARS and if they have to reel him back in to get to that then I am fine with it.
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Old 07-21-2014, 01:05 AM   #638
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Also, going over Jericho after yet another of his returns is just run of the mill. It always happens. Maybe I'm looking at his loss here from the wrong perspective. Maybe they are trying to make Jericho look credible again before feeding him to Wyatt.

I love me some Jericho, but for years now he just shows up to lose. He isn't looked at as a credible threat anymore. Bray just split with Cena, going over Jericho in a 3 week feud would do nothing for him really. But if you make Jericho look dangerous first, it makes Bray look better when he does go over.
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Old 07-21-2014, 01:07 AM   #639
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... They intentionally have him get a cheap pop in the beginning of his entrance. Yet they're going through great lengths in other capacities to stop people from cheering for him by making them care less about the character altogether...
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Old 07-21-2014, 01:09 AM   #640
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I love me some Jericho, but for years now he just shows up to lose. He isn't looked at as a credible threat anymore. Bray just split with Cena, going over Jericho in a 3 week feud would do nothing for him really. But if you make Jericho look dangerous first, it makes Bray look better when he does go over.
... By splitting a feud with a guy who isn't looked at as a credible threat. So Bray beating Jericho does nothing for him. But him losing to Jericho and then beating him does.

You're saying they should use Bray Wyatt to make Jericho look like a credible threat so that they can use Jericho to make Bray Wyatt look like a credibly threat. Do you not see the flaw in that logic?
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