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Old 11-30-2015, 04:05 PM   #361
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
I The cool thing about listening to those guys is they personify what Vince has been challenging the talent to do. Take an interest in your characters direction, and really own it. Makes me like these guys even more, and reiterates what I've believed, which is the system is there to make stars, and works when the talent is motivated and skilled.
I'm pretty sure that not everyone has the creative freedom that New Day has.

In other words work within our really rigid system and get yourself over. You hear that Johnny Curtis? It's your fault that despite being insanely talented you can't get over with your lack of TV time and stupid gimmick.


The system is not there to make stars it's there to elevate a select few who fit a certain criteria.
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Old 11-30-2015, 04:16 PM   #362
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KIRA View Post
I'm pretty sure that not everyone has the creative freedom that New Day has.

In other words work within our really rigid system and get yourself over.

It worked wonders for Zack Ryder.
I don't see why New Day would get special treatment. Maybe now, because they are over, but when they were first trying to establish a gimmick they said they were always going to Vince with concepts.

Ryder was over for a time, but his popularity fizzled out because he didn't have any depth to his gimmick. It was just broski and woowoowoo and that's it. Plus he came off like a geek
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Old 11-30-2015, 04:22 PM   #363
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSL View Post
there's an awful lot of information you're leaving out right there which you probably know and aren't adding for the sake of "doing your thing". If that isn't the case, you should probably look into that
Care to elaborate?

Keep in mind I've only listed to about 10 minutes. Which isn't "doing my thing", unless my thing is being busy at the time.
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Old 11-30-2015, 04:25 PM   #364
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
I don't see why New Day would get special treatment. Maybe now, because they are over, but when they were first trying to establish a gimmick they said they were always going to Vince with concepts.

Ryder was over for a time, but his popularity fizzled out because he didn't have any depth to his gimmick. It was just broski and woowoowoo and that's it. Plus he came off like a geek
Why do I get the feeling that you don't think the company actually pushing Ryder would have mattered?

Lets apply this logic to Roman he isn't interesting all he is so by the numbers it hurts has zero depth to him fans generally dislike him. Ryder at least has Something but by your logic Roman should be a non-issue right now, he isn't because the WWE is determined to make us think he doesn't suck. Having the company support DOES matter.
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Old 11-30-2015, 04:40 PM   #365
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KIRA View Post
Why do I get the feeling that you don't think the company actually pushing Ryder would have mattered?

Lets apply this logic to Roman he isn't interesting all he is so by the numbers it hurts has zero depth to him fans generally dislike him. Ryder at least has Something but by your logic Roman should be a non-issue right now, he isn't because the WWE is determined to make us think he doesn't suck. Having the company support DOES matter.
I remember watching Ryder grow in popularity because he was smart and was an early adopter to social media. I would watch him get these huge pops and think "why do people like this guy? ". But hey different strokes. In my opinion what happened was they got what they could out of him. He was like a car with only one gear. You need more than that to elevate your career.

To me Roman has a much better look than Ryder, he works like a main eventer, he has crazy presence, he just needs more confidence on the mic. I think that can be developed.
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Old 11-30-2015, 05:02 PM   #366
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
To me Roman has a much better look than Ryder, he works like a main eventer, he has crazy presence, he just needs more confidence on the mic. I think that can be developed.
Give Dean his spot then he has all the tools.
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Old 11-30-2015, 05:39 PM   #367
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
Care to elaborate?

Keep in mind I've only listed to about 10 minutes. Which isn't "doing my thing", unless my thing is being busy at the time.
to be quick, you left out:

-Bret had a certain level of creative control over the final 30 days of his contract, something Vince agreed to when they signed the 20 year deal

-Bret had a month left on his contract after Montreal, his final scheduled date was the following PPV or the RAW after, something they specifically negotiated with Bischoff/WCW to allow Bret to drop the belt

-Due to the ongoing lawsuits between WWE and WCW stemming from the likeness/copyright/intellectual property with Hall and co, there isn't a chance WCW would ever have had Bret show up with the belt on their TV show. They'd have been sued into oblivion

-Bret was willing to put anybody else over before or after Montreal/the Canada trip. He even was willing to put Shawn over at the following PPV despite the fact that...

-Shawn (then at the height of his "off the rails" period) point blank told Bret to his face he wasn't willing to ever put him over, which led to the initial hesitance on Bret's part (as well as admittedly taking the whole Canada schtick a bit too seriously) to drop the belt to Shawn at all
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Old 11-30-2015, 05:47 PM   #368
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlickyTrickyDamon View Post
How I would have handled Montreal

Austin/Owen have their match as it went down and Bret cuts a promo on Owen saying how he let his entire family and country down. Owen tells him to fuck off and challenges him to put the belt on the line against him right now! Owen wins clean and is the WWE Champion. HBK and Bret then have their match without the title.

HBK wins the title on Raw from Owen. Giving Owen a deserved title reign and respect. If Bret wouldn't job to Owen then he should be the one who died.


Hey guys, this post happened as well you know...
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Old 11-30-2015, 07:39 PM   #369
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lol what the hell
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Old 12-01-2015, 06:42 AM   #370
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It's fascinating when we get to see CyNick interact with some of the old guard who haven't posted here in a while...I wonder how long Mr. CSL will keep at him before he realizes what the rest of us already know about CyNick being very set in his opinions.
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Old 12-01-2015, 06:54 AM   #371
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KIRA View Post


The system is not there to make stars it's there to elevate a select few who fit a certain criteria.
And don't forget buzzwords which removes all organic feel from every thing. But Vince is the greatest of all time at all of life, and even his very few mistakes he has ever made can be easily rationalized, and are simply sensationalized by that fascist Dave Meltzer.
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Old 12-01-2015, 06:56 AM   #372
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CSL better get ready to be talked at and then have thedamndest tell him hes been owned and now butthurt by the superior rhetoric of thecynick
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Old 12-01-2015, 08:20 AM   #373
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corporate CockSnogger View Post
Hey guys, this post happened as well you know...

We tend to just look past the majority of STD's posts anymore. It's kinda like he gets a Dana Brooke pat to the head for doing a good job.
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Old 12-01-2015, 09:10 AM   #374
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSL View Post
to be quick, you left out:

-Bret had a certain level of creative control over the final 30 days of his contract, something Vince agreed to when they signed the 20 year deal

-Bret had a month left on his contract after Montreal, his final scheduled date was the following PPV or the RAW after, something they specifically negotiated with Bischoff/WCW to allow Bret to drop the belt

-Due to the ongoing lawsuits between WWE and WCW stemming from the likeness/copyright/intellectual property with Hall and co, there isn't a chance WCW would ever have had Bret show up with the belt on their TV show. They'd have been sued into oblivion

-Bret was willing to put anybody else over before or after Montreal/the Canada trip. He even was willing to put Shawn over at the following PPV despite the fact that...

-Shawn (then at the height of his "off the rails" period) point blank told Bret to his face he wasn't willing to ever put him over, which led to the initial hesitance on Bret's part (as well as admittedly taking the whole Canada schtick a bit too seriously) to drop the belt to Shawn at all
Sorry I thought you were talking about the New Day convo.

Trust me my man, I know every painful detail about this story from everyone who was there (well at least what they said publically).

I understand that Bret had "reasonable creative control". To me its reasonable and professional to JOB to one guy of the company's choosing prior to leaving.

Bret to me last all credibility in his documentary when he said losing in Montreal would be like the character blowing his brains out in the middle of the ring. Theres no other way to describe that line of thinking than batshit crazy. Imagine if Nash had said the same about putting over Taker clean at 12.

The issue about showing up with the title was moot. It wouldn't matter if he showed up with the physical belt, he would have already announced he was leaving on TV (that was Bret's idea), so as a fan, and subsequent loss would have looked phony.

There's no doubt Vince created an issue by signing the deal he did, but if I were Vince, I would have thought asking Bret to put over ONE top talent was within reason. And it's impossible to argue it wasn't reasonable. If Vince would have asked Bret to drop the strap to Chyna in Montreal, I could see a beef with that. But this was Shawn, Bret should have been a pro and just put over Shawn and walked into the sunset. His ego got in the way of good business.
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Old 12-01-2015, 09:40 AM   #375
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haha so your gimmick is "talking head from the Monday Night Wars on WWE Network", gotcha
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Old 12-01-2015, 09:46 AM   #376
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSL View Post
haha so your gimmick is "talking head from the Monday Night Wars on WWE Network", gotcha
I've been saying the same thing for years. Long before WWE Network.

I believe when it first happened, I was on Bret's side. When I watched his doc, and started reading more first hand accounts, I developed the view I currently have.

But yeah, you fit in well here by not debating anything I said. Cool.
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Old 12-01-2015, 10:32 AM   #377
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lol you aren't debating anything, just sticking to your points no matter what is said in terms of logic and common sense. I've spent silly amounts of time having long-winded debates on here with people over the years, it's not something I've been above doing. But you don't actually have anything to say
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Old 12-01-2015, 11:00 AM   #378
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSL View Post
lol you aren't debating anything, just sticking to your points no matter what is said in terms of logic and common sense. I've spent silly amounts of time having long-winded debates on here with people over the years, it's not something I've been above doing. But you don't actually have anything to say
Unfortunate
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Old 12-01-2015, 11:21 AM   #379
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Think the road to to Wrestlemania just started, and csl just won the Rumble.
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Old 12-01-2015, 11:27 AM   #380
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Think the road to to Wrestlemania just started, and csl just won the Rumble.
I feel like I was put in my place
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Old 12-01-2015, 07:23 PM   #381
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Explain Eugine
and mocking JRs Bells Palsy....WHILE PUSHING THE B A STAR CAMPAIGN.
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Old 12-02-2015, 04:41 AM   #382
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Then explain Smackdown's shitty rating.
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Old 12-02-2015, 07:59 AM   #383
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gonna piggyback off of what csl said as its been what we've been saying for some time, but with a bit more of his trademark cuntiness.
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Old 12-02-2015, 08:40 AM   #384
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Old 12-02-2015, 08:42 AM   #385
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Old 12-02-2015, 08:56 AM   #386
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorgeous Dale Newstead View Post
gonna piggyback off of what csl said as its been what we've been saying for some time, but with a bit more of his trademark cuntiness.
Dale, don't lower yourself to CSL's level. You at least debate a point (majority of the time). CSL made a bunch of points, which I retorted, and then rather than making a counterpoint he goes "you're just sticking to your point". Well maybe if someone brings a point that causes me to change my position, I might. And it's not like he was flexible on his position either.

If the idea is "there's no point of presenting differing opinions because it's all been said before", then this message board would be pretty dull (think how it was before I made my much heralded return). Maybe a guy like CSL comes to a message board for the ads, I don't know.

Don't be the guy who is willing to take the count out loss. If you have a position at least have the gumption to defend it.
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Old 12-02-2015, 08:59 AM   #387
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KIRA View Post
Explain Eugine
and mocking JRs Bells Palsy....WHILE PUSHING THE B A STAR CAMPAIGN.
I may have been out of the loop on the making fun of JR. If they did, I think it's in poor taste, and isn't conducive of maximizing TV rights fees.

Eugene wad a character I didn't personally like, but he was positioned high on the card, and for a while there, people were into it. So I had no problem with it.
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Old 12-02-2015, 09:01 AM   #388
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rammsteinmad View Post
Then explain Smackdown's shitty rating.
On Thanksgiving???

Likely had to do with throwing out the script Jim Cornette, Mick Foley, and Dave Meltzer worked on together. If only they would listen! !!! WWE could actually turn a profit. Oh well.
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Old 12-02-2015, 09:32 AM   #389
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
To me, you couldnt let Bret walk out of Survivor Series as champion. I'm sure we have all heard interviews with Bret, and realize he takes the business and his character really seriously. Maybe too seriously. As a result, it clouded his judgment and he acted selfishly and refusing to drop to Shawn in Montreal.

From Vince's POV, you have Bret going to Turner, and you have this big grudge match booked. Standard wrestling booking is when a guy is leaving a territory, he does the favours. It was perfectly reasonable for Vince to EXPECT Bret to put over someone of his choosing. Bret and Shawn were rivals, and if Bret is leaving, you want Shawn to look like the superior talent. Bret acted childish, and refused, so Vince was backed into a corner.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
He was backed into a corner

You have your champion leaving and refusing to put over the guy you want to be the heir apparent.

Nash put over HBK and Taker on his way out. Why couldn't Bret put over HBK?

Bret left Vince with no choice. Well, no good choice anyway.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
I understand that Bret had "reasonable creative control". To me its reasonable and professional to JOB to one guy of the company's choosing prior to leaving.

Bret to me last all credibility in his documentary when he said losing in Montreal would be like the character blowing his brains out in the middle of the ring. Theres no other way to describe that line of thinking than batshit crazy. Imagine if Nash had said the same about putting over Taker clean at 12.

The issue about showing up with the title was moot. It wouldn't matter if he showed up with the physical belt, he would have already announced he was leaving on TV (that was Bret's idea), so as a fan, and subsequent loss would have looked phony.

There's no doubt Vince created an issue by signing the deal he did, but if I were Vince, I would have thought asking Bret to put over ONE top talent was within reason. And it's impossible to argue it wasn't reasonable. If Vince would have asked Bret to drop the strap to Chyna in Montreal, I could see a beef with that. But this was Shawn, Bret should have been a pro and just put over Shawn and walked into the sunset. His ego got in the way of good business.
Cynick, buddy, pal, sweetums, these 3 posts say pretty much the exact same thing whilst ignoring logic and the majority of my response. So there is still nothing to actually respond to or "counterpoint".
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Old 12-02-2015, 09:45 AM   #390
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
On Thanksgiving???

Likely had to do with throwing out the script Jim Cornette, Mick Foley, and Dave Meltzer worked on together. If only they would listen! !!! WWE could actually turn a profit. Oh well.
Great job on not really explaining anything.
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Old 12-02-2015, 11:09 AM   #391
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The CyNick is doing some god-tier level trolling in this thread/forum.
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Old 12-02-2015, 11:13 AM   #392
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSL View Post
Cynick, buddy, pal, sweetums, these 3 posts say pretty much the exact same thing whilst ignoring logic and the majority of my response. So there is still nothing to actually respond to or "counterpoint".
Sorry, apple of my eye, what logic am I ignoring?
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Old 12-02-2015, 11:19 AM   #393
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rammsteinmad View Post
Great job on not really explaining anything.
Ratings:

Thanksgiving is a national holiday celebrated in Canada and the United States as a day of giving thanks for the blessing of the harvest and of the preceeding year. Thanksgiving is celebrated on the second Monday of October in Canada and on the fourth Thursday of November in the United States.

The part about Cornette:

The Tongue-in-cheek figure of speech is used to imply that a statement or other production is humorously or otherwise not seriously intended, and it should not be taken at face value.
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Old 12-02-2015, 11:29 AM   #394
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vito Cruz View Post
The CyNick is doing some god-tier level trolling in this thread/forum.
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Old 12-02-2015, 12:22 PM   #395
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vito Cruz View Post
The CyNick is doing some god-tier level trolling in this thread/forum.
That may be nonetheless it is fascinating that someone could defend and even love the BS the WWE has churned out.
It's like he's on the payroll to tow the company line.
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Old 12-02-2015, 01:23 PM   #396
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vito Cruz View Post
The CyNick is doing some god-tier level trolling in this thread/forum.
It's amazing.
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Old 12-02-2015, 02:41 PM   #397
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Why halt R-Truths awesome heel run? He was in a feud with John fucking Cena.
and before you say he was too goofy to be taken as a real threat



Oh man if they had just let him cut lose
Last edited by KIRA; 12-02-2015 at 02:58 PM.
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Old 12-02-2015, 11:47 PM   #398
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
Ratings:

Thanksgiving is a national holiday celebrated in Canada and the United States as a day of giving thanks for the blessing of the harvest and of the preceeding year. Thanksgiving is celebrated on the second Monday of October in Canada and on the fourth Thursday of November in the United States.

The part about Cornette:

The Tongue-in-cheek figure of speech is used to imply that a statement or other production is humorously or otherwise not seriously intended, and it should not be taken at face value.
Ok thanks. Still doesn't explain why Smackdown is so shitty but hey never mind the last few posts have summed up this thread anyway.
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Old 12-03-2015, 12:53 AM   #399
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from wiki

"Poe's law is an internet adage which states that, without a clear indicator of the author's intent, parodies of extremism are indistinguishable from sincere expressions of extremism. Poe's Law implies that parody will often be mistaken for sincere belief, and sincere beliefs for parody."
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Old 12-03-2015, 12:55 AM   #400
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lol it's hilarious in the casual forum guys who've read like 3 of the cynick's posts are like "IT'S AMAZING HOW THE WRESTLING FORUM GUYS CAN'T DEAL WITH A GUY NOT THINKING CESARO IS AMAZING" and it's like no, pretty much all of us understand people not being into guys we like. We'll debate about it for days but I feel like we all have a healthy understanding of differing tastes.
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