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Old 04-20-2014, 01:18 PM   #81
Bad News Gertner
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No it's correct because I said it is.
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Old 04-20-2014, 01:19 PM   #82
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I'm at work right now and I'm horribly bored so I'm just saying things for the sake of it.
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Old 04-20-2014, 01:19 PM   #83
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and i didn't hate ryback because he get over. that's silly, too. i just don't like him. like titus o'neil or heath slater. just plain don't like them.
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Old 04-20-2014, 01:39 PM   #84
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You will like Heath Slater and like it!!!!!
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Old 04-20-2014, 02:28 PM   #85
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i'm working on it
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Old 04-20-2014, 04:51 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad News Gertner View Post
The people who chant "boring" aren't the core fanbase. A big man with mic skills will always be better than a skinny dweeb with the same and you can take a monster and make them into something regardless of mic or ring skills.

No wonder why ratings are shit. Vanilla midgets populating the roster, there's no mystique to it anymore. Nash was right. Send these guys back to the mid card.
"The people who chant boring aren't the core fan base" Bullshit. You constantly say that every time the crowd proves you wrong. And the ratings aren't down because of "vanilla midgets" they're down because wrestling itself isn't popular anymore. Face it, pro-wrestling is even less mainstream than comics nowadays. Being a wrestling fan is damn near on par with being a Brony in today's atmosphere.

As for your other argument about wrestlers being real life super heroes I'm going to assume you don't read comics. Most of the most popular comic book characters today are not giant musclebound he-men. People like characters with depth and relatability. The days of Superman are over just like the days of the 80's stereotype wrestler are over.

Size has nothing to do with a wrestler getting over today. By the 80's and 90's standard John Cena is pretty small. Fans today want characters that they can get behind, not mythical heroes. Even kids today know wrestling is fake, it's just not the same product you grew up with whether you like it or not.

Wrestling will never reach the popularity it had in the Attitude era ever again. The fact that it's still getting ratings at all is amazing in and of itself. You also make it sound like WWE is getting TNA level ratings. Even with the "shit ratings" you say they have they're still outdoing almost every TV show on cable.
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Old 04-20-2014, 04:54 PM   #87
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Who gives a shit if someone is 6'10? They're on TV. Peter Jackson was able to make Ian McKellen look three times the height of Ian Holm.

Let's have more people like Kevin Nash and Big Khali limping down to the ring in a winner gets some vitamin D to cure their rickets match.
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Old 04-20-2014, 05:12 PM   #88
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4 things:

1. Rusev's issues, or at least the issues I have with Rusev, have nothing to do with booking. They have EVERYTHING to do with what Rusev isn't doing and hasn't done. He isn't working on his ruthless killer facial expression, so he looks bored instead of emotionless. He didn't suggest that he should use a finish that works with his style or his gimmick, so he's using a camel clutch in such a way that makes it look like he's popping his opponent's back, not hurting them. He didn't stand up for his look, so he looks less and less unique.

2. Ryback's current position is a combination of both bad booking and shooting himself in the foot. While he could have been the #4 face at the moment with better booking, Ryback could have easily filled the #2 or #3 heel role by now if he wasn't so piss poor at the business end of the business. He was allegedly awful at being an ambassador for the WWE in public appearances, and that killed him worse than the booking. Maybe the being an awful ambassador CAUSED the bad booking.

3. Gertner is right, to a point. If a big man can connect with the audience, he'll be a bigger draw than a smaller guy. But if a smaller guy connects with the audience, he'll be a bigger draw than a big man who cannot. Which is why Undertaker lasted as long as he did, and why people remember Shawn Michaels more fondly than they do the Warlord.

4. Potato.
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Old 04-20-2014, 05:54 PM   #89
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Ryback has seemed to have found his footing. Axel's in ring work has rubbed off on Ryback. He's gonna get another huge push down the line, but I'm enjoying RybAxel. Ryback's youtube videos are pretty funny.
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Old 04-20-2014, 06:18 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad News Gertner View Post
RybAxel are the greatest tag team of the past 30 years. Maybe since the Kangaroos. I'm all for more wrestlers like Rusev and less of these 205 pounds gas station attendants populating the roster.
There's the Gertner I know and love
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Old 04-20-2014, 10:12 PM   #91
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I think what the general public wants from its "heroes" is changing. Back during Hogan's era, they wanted the Hogan hero. They wanted an invincible good guy that celebrated virtuous living and having huge arms. During Stone Cold's era, it was all about cutting loose and not wearing the correct dress. But both those eras have passed us by. Timing is as important in creating a top star as much as skill, popularity, image and the right push are.

Batista recently returned to the WWE, and it's gotten crickets. That's not a slant on Batista, but I think we can all remember when the guy was the coolest thing in wrestling and was going to lead us into another boom period and finally give us that bankable big star we had been missing since Brock Lesnar left. Right? Remember that? But now he's come back, and virtually everything is the same about him (he's a little smaller), and it just hasn't been the revolution that a guy like Daniel Bryan is leading. Hell, right now Jon Moxley and Tyler Black from the independent wrestling scene are of, at worst, equal value to the WWE. Yes, there was an era where Dean Ambrose's place would have been as a scrapper in the Hardcore Division and Seth Rollins would be lucky to get a European Title reign outside of being a Cruiserweight and Tag Team Champion, but what people are demanding is changing. Your average kid would probably rather by Seth Rollins merchandise than Kevin Nash merchandise today, and that's just the way it is. And those of us who always enjoyed ring skillz more than the old prototype model should be thankful for that.

And there are a lot of reasons I feel professional wrestling is changing on that front. It's a smarter world that is more connected than ever. Triple H dubbed this the "Reality Era," and a harder style comes with that. Ring skills are probably more important than they've ever been. In a post-concussion study drug testing world, being able to look after the guy you are working with and pissing clean are paramount. Looking like a freak of nature might get you in the door, but you need to be able to work with the guys carrying the workload today.

That being said, excellent ring ability isn't enough. Tyson Kidd would be up there with CM Punk and Daniel Bryan if that were the case. It's finding that winning presentation. That intangible that made guys like Hogan, Rock and Austin special is still required, but just what that intangible is has changed. Daniel Bryan has "it," whatever "it" is today. The WWE had him lose the World Heavyweight Title (which they put on him in the first place, mind you) in 18 seconds in the first match at WrestleMania XXVIII. They had him lose the first match at the Royal Rumble this year. I'm not complaining about the booking here so much as talking about how it doesn't matter what they do with Bryan -- he's a star. Deal with it, to quote Batista.

Ryback should have been used smarter, but he's just not...enough. Once upon a time he would have had a better shot than a CM Punk or a Daniel Bryan. If this were WCW in the Attitude era, Punk and Bryan would have been jobbing to Ryback on a weekly basis as they set up Ryback for that money match against Goldberg. That match would get shit on today. People just want a different thing.
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Old 04-20-2014, 11:10 PM   #92
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Quote:
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Even kids today know wrestling is fake
Which is all the more reason why it should not try to be "realistic" with skinny, homeless looking, average guys who look like they play video games all day and can't even spell the word "gym" on top. You claim the "real life Superhero" model is outdated yet ignore that before that era began, Bob Backlund was on top for 6 years. Because people still thought of it as real and any run of the mill, normal looking regular joe could be on top. THAT era is over and outdated and should never come back. Wrestling has been outed as scripted entertainment. At this point to try to focus it on "real life guys" is to basically strive to be an openly fake UFC. Or worse... ROH.
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Old 04-20-2014, 11:16 PM   #93
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Seriously... everyone who strives for the era of wrestlers who look like gas station attendants, as Gertner put it, has ROH. It's fucking PERFECT for you. Most of the guys you wanna see on top in WWE were already on top there! With this being the model of wrestling everyone supposedly wants to see why isn't it a bigger success as opposed to that awful fed where for the past 10 years "Cena wins UGH!"?
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Old 04-20-2014, 11:23 PM   #94
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THE RYBACK beat the best rassler on earf Barry Stevens. He was so over and the IWC ruined it because they'd rather have skinny dweebs like "don't eat meat" Daniel Bryan or "I won't drink beer" CM Punk be the champ. If there was ever a 5'4" 125lb guy who composts and only eats gluten free organic food he would be the best ever according to the workrate nerds.
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Old 04-20-2014, 11:25 PM   #95
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We're heading toward a point where the internet will be calling for Hornswoggle-size world champions.

Maybe even Hornswoggle himself if he can raise his workrate by about 2.7.
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Old 04-20-2014, 11:28 PM   #96
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The workrate nerds would want Hornswoggle to go over Andre the Giant
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Old 04-20-2014, 11:36 PM   #97
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lol #1-wwf-fan you are a gem
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Old 04-21-2014, 12:11 AM   #98
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Quote:
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lol #1-wwf-fan you are a gem
Oh, we're going condescending huh? Cute.

If you're not going condescending... then yes. You are correct.
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Old 04-21-2014, 12:18 AM   #99
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Negative Nancy



Good Heel Gimmick
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Old 04-21-2014, 12:26 AM   #100
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no i was definitely being cute
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Old 04-21-2014, 12:35 AM   #101
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Well then... I'll take that as the typical "I can't respond so hopefully my condescending remark will come off as a witty way of negating what was just said in order to avoid the truth."

THE INDY NERD SIDE LOSES AGAIN! MUAHAHAHAHA!
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Old 04-21-2014, 12:58 AM   #102
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i've said plenty on the subject already. it's easier and more fun to laugh at you than to waste time repeating myself.
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Old 04-21-2014, 12:59 AM   #103
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Originally Posted by Lock Jaw View Post
Negative Nancy



Good Heel Gimmick
Surprised nobody actually jumped on this yet. And I'm being as serious as Lance Storm. You've had people like Zeb Coulter and "The Governor", you'd think a Nancy Grace-ish heel manager would've been on TV somewhere post haste!
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Old 04-21-2014, 01:09 AM   #104
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Originally Posted by ron the dial View Post
i've said plenty on the subject already. it's easier and more fun to laugh at you than to waste time repeating myself.
Hate to break it to you but condescending "Psh I'm right LOL. Not even gonna waste my time" comments don't ACTUALLY validate your case. They just show you'd rather try to LOOK like you're right without actually having to use your brain.

So again, we're just gonna have to go with that as a default victory for team anti-indy nerd! WHOOOOOOO!
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Old 04-21-2014, 01:14 AM   #105
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That cartwheeling silhouette seems to have a fine workrate. Nice lack of size and muscle mass too. Future World Champion.
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Old 04-21-2014, 01:30 AM   #106
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But seriously, I actually thought this was another Nancy Grace thread when I first saw it, too.
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Old 04-21-2014, 02:53 AM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
Seriously... everyone who strives for the era of wrestlers who look like gas station attendants, as Gertner put it, has ROH. It's fucking PERFECT for you. Most of the guys you wanna see on top in WWE were already on top there! With this being the model of wrestling everyone supposedly wants to see why isn't it a bigger success as opposed to that awful fed where for the past 10 years "Cena wins UGH!"?
You know what? I am happy about the current product. In fact I'm very happy. As for the "Why isn't WWE doing better than it is now?" argument, I already stated why it isn't doing "well" in your terms. Wrestling just isn't popular anymore. It wouldn't matter who was in the main event, wrestling isn't going to become the phenomenon that it was in the Attitude Era. Hell even the Rock didn't bring the ratings up to par when he returned. Wrestling is a dying art, period. Can it make a comeback? Don't know and don't care. I'm going to continue watching and enjoying every minute of guys like Bryan and Punk beating out guys like Ryback and Batista.
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Old 04-21-2014, 02:58 AM   #108
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To be fair, Bryan's reign has only been 2 weeks so far. And Punk hasn't beaten anyone in a while and probably won't anytime soon. Not sure who else like them has been pushed as a potential "face of the company" type in a while.
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Old 04-21-2014, 03:00 AM   #109
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And when Punk was the champion, he was placed second to Cena on PPVs and the like. Because the "larger than life" guy was a bigger draw even without the title than the normal, fry cook looking guy with the title. Just like when Benoit was champion and wasn't headlining shows (unless a bigger star was involved of course). And I've got a feeling we're about to see Daniel Bryan defending that title take a back seat to a better main event option in a couple weeks. There's a pattern here.
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Old 04-21-2014, 03:33 AM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
And when Punk was the champion, he was placed second to Cena on PPVs and the like. Because the "larger than life" guy was a bigger draw even without the title than the normal, fry cook looking guy with the title. Just like when Benoit was champion and wasn't headlining shows (unless a bigger star was involved of course). And I've got a feeling we're about to see Daniel Bryan defending that title take a back seat to a better main event option in a couple weeks. There's a pattern here.
Punk main-evented 5 PPVs...wasn't he a heel during his entire run though? Not saying that makes up for it...
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Old 04-21-2014, 03:39 AM   #111
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Old 04-21-2014, 03:40 AM   #112
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He was a heel for the second half of his reign. He won the title in November 2011 and turned heel in July 2012.

He main evented the first PPV after winning the title, TLC in December 2011. John Cena wasn't on the card though. Once Cena came back, Punk's title matches took a backseat immediately and he didn't main event again until Septemeber after he turned heel and faced... John Cena.
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Old 04-21-2014, 07:17 AM   #113
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Here's what annoys me about the "Ryback shot himself in the foot" nonsense. I've said and maintained Ryback shouldn't have been shot into the main event that fast. It was a panic decision. His match with Mark Henry at Wrestlemania should have been his biggest feud. He literally went from Jinder Mahal to CM Punk. I'm not going to fault him for being put in the main event when he wasn't ready.

I enjoy Tyson Kidd. If the WWE all of a sudden starts pushing Kidd to feud with Cena and it fails I'm not going to say "Kidd sucks and dropped the ball". He shouldn't have been there in the first place. Neither should have Ryback. He only debuted after Wrestlemania.
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Old 04-21-2014, 09:38 AM   #114
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They fed Ryback to Cena that was it right there. He should have gone over or kept the hell away from him.
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Old 04-21-2014, 09:40 AM   #115
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Old 04-21-2014, 12:23 PM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
He was a heel for the second half of his reign. He won the title in November 2011 and turned heel in July 2012.

He main evented the first PPV after winning the title, TLC in December 2011. John Cena wasn't on the card though. Once Cena came back, Punk's title matches took a backseat immediately and he didn't main event again until Septemeber after he turned heel and faced... John Cena.
Started Nov 20th 2011....my Birthday
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