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Old 09-23-2007, 01:28 PM   #401
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeartBreakKid2k
I've got to say, last night really wrecked the rankings last night. I'd honestly say that I couldn't tell you who the number one contender to Page is now.... I wish they could do a Gran Prix
dont worry sherdog will still rank shogun #1 and liddel #3
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Old 09-23-2007, 01:28 PM   #402
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brock would murder some people
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Old 09-23-2007, 01:32 PM   #403
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Brock is a monster, there's no question about that. I'm just excited as a fan from him am wrestling days. I was wrestling still (before I went to MMA myself years ago) and was a huge fan of his and looked at him as a motivator. Now it's going to be cool for me, someone already doing MMA (obviously not to the scale he is) to watch him evolve into it.
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Old 09-23-2007, 01:34 PM   #404
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reavant
cuz shogun won the 205 GP by murdering rampage and shogun never got a chance to fight for the title cuz wanderlei was champ and right after dan took the belt, pride shut down.
He beat Rampage two years ago.. Rampage's style has changed alot since then.. His disipline and ground game are much more solid..

This is like people saying the Pats shouldn't have won a Super Bowl because they prolly wouldve lost to the Raiders if they hadn't changed the "not uck" rule.. Bottom line is, Pats won that game and then went on to win the Superbowl..

Same thing, Shogun never got a chance to fight Henderson, but how can you be so sure he would've beat him?? There no way to tell, but calling him the number one, just because of "what if's" is retarded..

Rampage is the number one LHW in the world right now.. That's why he called the "undisputed Light Heavy Weight Champion of the World".. You guy sure are disputing it though..
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Old 09-23-2007, 01:55 PM   #405
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris P Lettus
How was Shogun number one when Dan Henderson was the Pride LHW Champion and the UFC LHW Champion Rampage beat him to unify the titles??

How was he the best when he wasn't the champion of either of the two biggest promotions in the world??

Same reason Fedor is the best fighter in the world.

Titles dont mean shit. Shogun was widely reguarded as the best MMA lightweight and he had the victories to back it up. Plus he made Rampage his bitch.
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Old 09-23-2007, 02:00 PM   #406
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So he is because of popular opinion?? What victories?? Shit the only fighters of worth he's beaten since Rampage are Arona and Kevin Randleman, but Mark Coleman also broke his arm in the time so that's not saying much..
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Old 09-23-2007, 03:21 PM   #407
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Thats why I used quotation marks. Do I think he was the top LHW in the world? Probably not, it should have been Henderson or Jackson. And obviously he isn't now. But the fact of the matter is that most independent organizations ranked Shogun as the top LHW in the world.
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Old 09-23-2007, 03:27 PM   #408
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And for the record, I'm pretty sure Jackson will be unanimous #1 now.

I would imagine the rankings to look something like this:
#1. Quinton Jackson
#2. Wanderlei Silva
#3. Forrest Griffin
#4. Dan Henderson
#5. Keith Jardine
#6. Mauricio Rua
#7. Chuck Liddell
#8. Alexander Houston/Houston Alexander
#9. Tito Ortiz
#10. Rashad Evans

I think Forrest deserves a title shot after such a dominating victory last night.

Last edited by Mercury Bullet; 09-23-2007 at 03:46 PM.
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Old 09-23-2007, 03:40 PM   #409
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Great division. So is Rampage fighting Silva next or what?

Did you switch #8's name on purpose?

But if not Silva then yes, Forrest should get it
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Old 09-23-2007, 03:46 PM   #410
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crimson
Did you switch #8's name on purpose?
, no but I get that mixed up because he could have either two first names, or two last names. Nice catch.
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Old 09-23-2007, 04:03 PM   #411
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From the last UFC, I had some pointless observations:

1. Is Tyson Griffin double-jointed? Seriously, he may have the best submission defense in the world. I also have yet to see him have a bad fight.

2. Nakamura kind of disappointed me. I expected a better fight. Then again, when I saw that the other guy was versed in Shotokan, I was drunk enough to suggest that he should go for a Dragon Punch.

3. John Fitch with the Emerald Frosion! The guy who sat behind me said "That move didn't do shit, but it sure did look cool." As did the Stunner-like escape from the Rear Naked.

4. Speaking of Rear Nakeds, who was more surprised: The crowd that Forrest beat Shogun, or Forrest that he actually scored a Submission. I am one of the few people who don't care for Griffin, but I was impressed.

5. Me and my buddies were joking that Jardine would win a very pro-Liddell environment. We didn't know it would actually happen.
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Old 09-23-2007, 04:09 PM   #412
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercury Bullet
And for the record, I'm pretty sure Jackson will be unanimous #1 now.

I would imagine the rankings to look something like this:
#1. Quinton Jackson
#2. Wanderlei Silva
#3. Forrest Griffin
#4. Dan Henderson
#5. Keith Jardine
#6. Mauricio Rua
#7. Chuck Liddell
#8. Alexander Houston/Houston Alexander
#9. Tito Ortiz
#10. Rashad Evans

I think Forrest deserves a title shot after such a dominating victory last night.
How would put Wanderlei at number two?? I mean, he lost to Cro Cop and Henderson his last two fights..

I am going to call you "fart" from now on b/c you seem to do nothing but talk out of your ass..
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Old 09-23-2007, 04:43 PM   #413
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Because he is a major signing for the UFC and they are going to hype him and push him as much as possible, just like they did with Cro Cop.

What was Rampage doing in Pride before he came to UFC and got an instant title shot? Hmm?

Now if I were to be ranking them, my personal ranking would look more like this:
#1. Quinton Jackson
#2. Forrest Griffin
#3. Houston Alexander
#4. Keith Jardine
#5. Wanderlei Silva

And I don't think I would even bother ranking beyond that.

Last edited by Mercury Bullet; 09-23-2007 at 04:45 PM.
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Old 09-23-2007, 04:48 PM   #414
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Uhhh, he didn't get an instant title shot..
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Old 09-23-2007, 04:59 PM   #415
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Oh yeh, excuse me. He got vengeance over Eastman first. Because Eastman was a top contender before Rampage went over him. Rampage must have taken his pending title opportunity.

Last edited by Mercury Bullet; 09-23-2007 at 05:03 PM.
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Old 09-23-2007, 05:05 PM   #416
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I'm pretty bummed out that Liddell lost last night
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Old 09-24-2007, 12:51 AM   #417
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The hell with Ortiz/Evans rematch I wanna see them both take on different people. Ortiz/Jardine. Evans/Shogun..or whatever other combination there is seeing as it is a deep class.
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Old 09-24-2007, 01:43 PM   #418
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamstar
I'm pretty bummed out that Liddell lost last night
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Old 09-24-2007, 03:40 PM   #419
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercury Bullet
Oh yeh, excuse me. He got vengeance over Eastman first. Because Eastman was a top contender before Rampage went over him. Rampage must have taken his pending title opportunity.
Alexander was "fed" to Jardine before he was gonna get a title shot and we all know how that turned out..
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Old 09-24-2007, 06:09 PM   #420
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple A
Is this just a discussion of UFC or should it just be named the MMA Thread so people have a place to talk about non-UFC crap?
Remember when I told you years ago about how huge MMA was gonna be and you should add it to the site and you laughed and said no?
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Old 09-24-2007, 09:55 PM   #421
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris P Lettus
He beat Rampage two years ago.. Rampage's style has changed alot since then.. His disipline and ground game are much more solid..

This is like people saying the Pats shouldn't have won a Super Bowl because they prolly wouldve lost to the Raiders if they hadn't changed the "not uck" rule.. Bottom line is, Pats won that game and then went on to win the Superbowl..

Same thing, Shogun never got a chance to fight Henderson, but how can you be so sure he would've beat him?? There no way to tell, but calling him the number one, just because of "what if's" is retarded..

Rampage is the number one LHW in the world right now.. That's why he called the "undisputed Light Heavy Weight Champion of the World".. You guy sure are disputing it though..
oh my god... ok listen we all know how much you want page's cock in your mouth, but calm the fuck down. you wanted to know why shogun was ranked #1 and I told you. That was the whole reason he was ranked #1. Right there. It was irrelevant to how rampage had improoved because shogun hadnt fought in a while. Its just like Fedor's #1 ranking right now.
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Old 09-24-2007, 10:01 PM   #422
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercury Bullet
And for the record, I'm pretty sure Jackson will be unanimous #1 now.

I would imagine the rankings to look something like this:
#1. Quinton Jackson
#2. Wanderlei Silva
#3. Forrest Griffin
#4. Dan Henderson
#5. Keith Jardine
#6. Mauricio Rua
#7. Chuck Liddell
#8. Alexander Houston/Houston Alexander
#9. Tito Ortiz
#10. Rashad Evans

I think Forrest deserves a title shot after such a dominating victory last night.
just so everyone knows, I like forrest, and I dont really like jardine. buuuuuut you need to switch their places. Jardine KOed forrest. Forrest had his first glimps of an A-level performance of his life against shogun. Forrest doesnt deserve shit till he beats jardine. same can be said about jardine and alexander, but alexander needs to proove himself more as crazy as that sounds. One or two more knock outs like hes had and then him and jardine need to fight again, but until that time jardine is #3 and forrest is #5
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Old 09-24-2007, 10:07 PM   #423
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris P Lettus
How would put Wanderlei at number two?? I mean, he lost to Cro Cop and Henderson his last two fights..

I am going to call you "fart" from now on b/c you seem to do nothing but talk out of your ass..
are you seriously gonna use the he got KOed by cro cop argument? anyone who takes a strait shot to the head from a cro cop left high kick will not walk away from it not to mention cro cop is a heavyweight. and he fought hendo in too short of time after that KO from cro cop. Wand was out for 4 min from hendo. you cant tell me hendo has that kind of power... its from wand's previous KO. Wand is going to have 9 months of rest from his last fight, the longest hes ever gone without fighting. He owned a title in pride for about 4 years maybe longer. Until he comes into UFC and chokes, he is the number 2 205 in the world.
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Old 09-24-2007, 10:50 PM   #424
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The light heavyweight division is crazy, there's so many fights to be had.
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Old 09-24-2007, 10:59 PM   #425
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Hot garbage..

The Saints are the number 1 team in the NFC b/c they should have won the NFC Championship and if they had they wouldve beaten the Colts.. Ignore the fact that we are currently 0-2..

Yeah, thats the same argument you're using..
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Old 09-25-2007, 12:39 AM   #426
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oh yea i guess your right.... other than the fact your compairing someone who has held a title for like 4 or 5 years compaired to a team that had its first winning season like ever. Its a little different when one has prooven himself.
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Old 09-25-2007, 12:40 AM   #427
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you must really not want rampage to fight wanderlei.... i couldnt imagine why
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Old 09-25-2007, 08:12 AM   #428
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just so everyone knows, I like forrest, and I dont really like jardine. buuuuuut you need to switch their places. Jardine KOed forrest. Forrest had his first glimps of an A-level performance of his life against shogun. Forrest doesnt deserve shit till he beats jardine. same can be said about jardine and alexander, but alexander needs to proove himself more as crazy as that sounds. One or two more knock outs like hes had and then him and jardine need to fight again, but until that time jardine is #3 and forrest is #5
Alexander KO'ing a guy who picked apart Chuck Liddell wasn't proof? I agree though, he has one victory over a semi-marquee opponent. He needs one more name in the win column I think to justify a title shot.

With all the upsets in the LHW division it makes ranking anybody very difficult.
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Old 09-25-2007, 08:13 AM   #429
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Originally Posted by Kris P Lettus
Hot garbage..

The Saints are the number 1 team in the NFC b/c they should have won the NFC Championship and if they had they wouldve beaten the Colts.. Ignore the fact that we are currently 0-2..

Yeah, thats the same argument you're using..
Football operates seasonally. Every season is a new year, new record. MMA doesn't work that way, it isn't a seasonal sport. Bad analogy that doesn't add up.
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Old 09-25-2007, 08:33 AM   #430
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I juts don't see how y'all can judge fighters on anything other than their latests preformances..

Even with how yall are doing it, why is Liddell not in the top 5??
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Old 09-25-2007, 01:27 PM   #431
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I dont' think Liddell looked as bad as some people make it out. I love how when a fighter loses he needs to retire.
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Old 09-25-2007, 01:35 PM   #432
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Liddell didn't look terrible, but I think he needs time off to refocus and retrain to get back into the upper-tier. As for why I wouldnt put him in the top 5, or why I don't think most others would put him in the top 5 is because the LHW division is WAY too crowded to give Liddell a top 5 spot just for being Chuck Liddell. He lost. He lost a very important fight between two guys on the fringe of the title scene.

My top 5 for example:
#1. Quinton Jackson - Winner, Current Title Holder
#2. Forrest Griffin - Winner, defeated consensus #1 in the world
#3. Houston Alexander - Winner, unproven but has looked unbelievably dominant, the likes of which we haven't even really seen before
#4. Keith Jardine - Winner, defeated the 'face' of UFC
#5. Wanderlei Silva - Struggled recently in PRIDE, is coming off a long layoff, MUCH hype around his UFC debut

So, Silva is the only one with a question mark by him. You could stretch that to Houston Alexander I suppose. I think that is a pretty justified top 5.
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Old 09-25-2007, 01:39 PM   #433
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This is the top 10 as I think most organizations will perceive it:
#1. Quinton Jackson - Undisputed Champion
#2. Wanderlei Silva - Former Elite Fighter, Long Layoff, Highly Anticipated Return
#3. Forrest Griffin - Knocked off #1 in the world, Fan favorite, TUF winner
#4. Dan Henderson - Competitive loss to Undisputed Champ
#5. Keith Jardine - Win over biggest name in MMA (to the casual fan)
#6. Mauricio Rua - Loss, but will remain highly ranked until defeated again
#7. Chuck Liddell - Will stay in the top 10 until he retires or loses to a lower-tier opponent
#8. Houston Alexander -Dominant but unproven
#9. Tito Ortiz - No longer in his prime, important rematch coming up that will likely decide much of his future
#10. Rashad Evans - Unproven, needs a win over Tito to move up anytime soon
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Old 09-25-2007, 02:07 PM   #434
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For me I think it breaks down like this. I don't include have Jardine higher in this because honestly, he's still the same fighter who went to a split decision with Stephen, he beat Chuck through a decision but so what, one fight doesn't do it for me.

1. Quinton Jackson - Undisputed Champ, that's it period
2. Wanderlei Silva - Top tier fighter, returning from a break
3. Dan Henderson - Lost to Rampage, but still up there
4. Forest Griffin - Incredibly impressive
5. Shogun - Again, with the division as tight as it is, one loss I don't think drops you that far, especially in a competitive match up.
6. Ryoto Machida
7. Chuck Liddell - Still top 10 without question
8. Houston Alexander - Two dominating wins
9. Keith Jardine - Huge win over Chuck
10. Tito/Rashad - They need the rematch to figure out who's top 10.

Also if Arona comes to the UFC that shifts numbers 5 and below down and he comes in at number 5 easily.
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Old 09-25-2007, 02:11 PM   #435
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Also though guys, the welterweight division isn't the cleanest thing right now either. Where do you guys see the top 10 there?

For me:

1. Matt Serra (I don't actually consider him top five in terms of talent, but the champion will always rank number 1 from me)
2. Matt Hughes (Obviously the number one contender)
3. George St Pierre
4. Karo
5. Jon Fitch
6. Kos
7. Nick Diaz
8. Diego Sanchez
9. Jake Shields
10. Marcus Davis

Also BJ if he goes back up probably sits at 6 to me, shifting everyone down.

Last edited by HeartBreakMan2k; 09-25-2007 at 02:14 PM.
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Old 09-25-2007, 09:29 PM   #436
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I think they should do a grand prix, cuz it'll definitely sort a lot of things out.
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Old 09-25-2007, 09:46 PM   #437
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris P Lettus
I juts don't see how y'all can judge fighters on anything other than their latests preformances..

Even with how yall are doing it, why is Liddell not in the top 5??
well in liddels case its the way he lost. He could have done more to win and he didnt. jardine should have never beat him. so either he didnt train well enough to win or he doesnt have what it takes anymore to win. wanderlei might be over the hill too, but his losses came from getting caught with a big shot... not a decision where he let it out of his hands when he could have controlled it.
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Old 09-25-2007, 10:02 PM   #438
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercury Bullet
This is the top 10 as I think most organizations will perceive it:
#1. Quinton Jackson - Undisputed Champion
#2. Wanderlei Silva - Former Elite Fighter, Long Layoff, Highly Anticipated Return
#3. Forrest Griffin - Knocked off #1 in the world, Fan favorite, TUF winner
#4. Dan Henderson - Competitive loss to Undisputed Champ
#5. Keith Jardine - Win over biggest name in MMA (to the casual fan)
#6. Mauricio Rua - Loss, but will remain highly ranked until defeated again
#7. Chuck Liddell - Will stay in the top 10 until he retires or loses to a lower-tier opponent
#8. Houston Alexander -Dominant but unproven
#9. Tito Ortiz - No longer in his prime, important rematch coming up that will likely decide much of his future
#10. Rashad Evans - Unproven, needs a win over Tito to move up anytime soon
I know that many websites are gonna use a ranking much like yours but i have a problem with it.

#1. Quinton Jackson - agree
#2. Wanderlei Silva - agree till he comes in and chokes... i hope thats not the case but history loves repeating itself
#3. Keith Jardine - has to be put over forrest for now at least until theres a rematch
#4. Dan Henderson - i think hes a top 3 fighter but hes not in line for a while till he gets a few more fights.
#5. Forrest Griffin - this is where forrest needs to be.
#6. Chuck Liddell - real bad loss to jardine, not cuz he was dominated but because he didnt do what he needed to do
#7. Houston Alexander -could be the mike tyson of MMA but needs to proove it
#8. Mauricio Rua - real bad loss needs to avenge it
#9. Tito Ortiz - past his prime and prolly shouldnt be in the top 10 but oh well
#10. Rashad Evans - needs to drop to 185 or put on some size, he looks way too small and hes not strong enough to hang in my opinion.
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Old 09-26-2007, 07:14 AM   #439
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Just watched the Griffin fight last night, FUUUUUCCCCCKKK!

That was a hell fo a cut he got. Still I love the guy, he's like the closest thing UFC have to Rocky.

Give him a shot now, the buy rates would be tremendous, I think Rampage would beat him, but you just have to love the way Griffin keeps on going.

Shogun should of been done in the second though, he was blowing big time
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Old 09-26-2007, 12:46 PM   #440
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-Keith Jardine ($14,000) def. Chuck Liddell ($500,000)
-Forrest Griffin ($44,000) def. Mauricio "Shogun" Rua ($150,000)
-Jon Fitch ($44,000) def. Diego Sanchez ($22,000)
-"Lyoto" Ryoto Machida ($50,000) def. Kazuhiro Nakamura ($20,000)
-Tyson Griffin ($24,000) def. Thiago Tavares ($9,000)
-Rich Clementi ($24,000) def. Anthony Johnson ($5,000)
-Jeremy Stephens ($6,000) def. Diego Saraiva ($3,000)
-Christian Wellisch ($14,000) def. Scott Junk ($4,000)
-Matt Wiman ($16,000) def. Michihiro Omigawa ($5,000)

Total disclosed payroll: $954,000

Liddell got paid more than all the other contenders combined....and yet he still lost...
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