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Old 07-17-2013, 12:59 PM   #561
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For all his faults, Randy Orton is still over with the crowd. I still think that he could put someone over massively by losing a surprise cash-in.
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Old 07-17-2013, 01:00 PM   #562
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We will not give Jay Bradley any more chances
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Old 07-17-2013, 01:01 PM   #563
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Daniel Bryan, RVD, Sheamus, and CM Punk are MUCH BETTER long term solutions than Randy Orton. Infinitely better. What is in the longterm plan for Randy Orton? A horrible WM main event again? A wellness violation? Him getting somebody fired?

And I don't really think Orton needs the briefcase at all, as he's an established star. They could bring him into the main event at any time and nobody would really dispute it. It's kind of like the Kane and Big Show thing. No matter how much they are gone or how much they lose, they can be brought into the main event at any time and still be a threat. If Bryan had the briefcase, along with this meteoric rise he's having, it would be perfect. It would keep this Bryan excitement going for a long time instead of having him just job to Cena at SS and killing it all.
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Old 07-17-2013, 01:03 PM   #564
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Fuck, even I'm defending Orton here.
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Old 07-17-2013, 01:04 PM   #565
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Narcissus View Post
Randy Orton doesn't need a breifcase either. Wouldn't you rather send the crowd some happy instead of with thoughts of suicide?


Randy Orton is a FACE, by the way.
He does, though. His promo on the RAW before speaks to that, as does his absence from the title picture over the past two years. The guys in the match that would've outpopped him don't need the briefcase.
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Old 07-17-2013, 01:04 PM   #566
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Sheamus is worse as a character than Orton. Better in the ring, but fucking cold than cold. Ice cold. ABSOLUTE ZERO.
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Old 07-17-2013, 01:04 PM   #567
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It doesn't help his cause that he's just a bad person.
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Old 07-17-2013, 01:09 PM   #568
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tb1 View Post
He does, though. His promo on the RAW before speaks to that, as does his absence from the title picture over the past two years. The guys in the match that would've outpopped him don't need the briefcase.
No, he doesn't. You can bring him in at any time and the everybody would be fine with it. He's like a 4 time world champion or something. You don't need a reason for him to have a title match.


And the crowd was totally dead. In comparison to anybody else winning it. It's like they just didn't care at all. They wasted all this time watching a wonderful match for WWE to just take a dump on the crowd's head. How much more time are we going to waste on a failed experiment?
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Old 07-17-2013, 01:10 PM   #569
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God. I really hate Randy Orton. I need to lie down.

He had so much potential at one point. It's kind of sickening really.
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Old 07-17-2013, 01:13 PM   #570
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Narcissus View Post
Daniel Bryan, RVD, Sheamus, and CM Punk are MUCH BETTER long term solutions than Randy Orton. Infinitely better. What is in the longterm plan for Randy Orton? A horrible WM main event again? A wellness violation? Him getting somebody fired?

And I don't really think Orton needs the briefcase at all, as he's an established star. They could bring him into the main event at any time and nobody would really dispute it. It's kind of like the Kane and Big Show thing. No matter how much they are gone or how much they lose, they can be brought into the main event at any time and still be a threat. If Bryan had the briefcase, along with this meteoric rise he's having, it would be perfect. It would keep this Bryan excitement going for a long time instead of having him just job to Cena at SS and killing it all.
Again, those are all guys that don't need the briefcase. What would CM Punk need with the briefcase? He's the top guy. Bryan's so hot right now, he doesn't need it either. RVD has a ton of buzz right now and he just returned, so he doesn't need it either. Orton's character needed a boost and this makes sense if we're going to talk about who has the most to gain out of winning that match (outside of Christian).
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Old 07-17-2013, 01:15 PM   #571
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I just watched it again and I stand by what I said about the crowd reaction. There was an initial obligatory "Oh, somebody won" crowd reaction that still wasn't very big and then nothing.

If Bryan won then crowd would've blown their brains all over the arena and gone into excitement spasms.
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Old 07-17-2013, 01:15 PM   #572
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Also, on a nice vintage LOL TNA moment:

Remember Doc, that guy in Aces and Eights who is being groomed for a potential face turn and program? HIS CONTRACT EXPIRED.
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Old 07-17-2013, 01:18 PM   #573
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tb1 View Post
Again, those are all guys that don't need the briefcase. What would CM Punk need with the briefcase? He's the top guy. Bryan's so hot right now, he doesn't need it either. RVD has a ton of buzz right now and he just returned, so he doesn't need it either. Orton's character needed a boost and this makes sense if we're going to talk about who has the most to gain out of winning that match (outside of Christian).
No, he doesn't. He's a former multiple time champion. You don't need a reason for a title shot when you are multiple time champion. You just don't. And even if nobody really needed the briefcase, why would you go with the most boring, risky option? He's proven he can't cut it in the main event of WM when everything is circled around him. He's proven that he can't "say no" to drugs. And he's proven to be a huge fucking asshole to guys in the locker room by getting them fired. What is the upside?


We've done this before.
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Old 07-17-2013, 01:19 PM   #574
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Innovator View Post
Also, on a nice vintage LOL TNA moment:

Remember Doc, that guy in Aces and Eights who is being groomed for a potential face turn and program? HIS CONTRACT EXPIRED.
lol, yeah. I read that last night and my head hurt a little bit.
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Old 07-17-2013, 01:23 PM   #575
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Quote:
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No, he doesn't. You can bring him in at any time and the everybody would be fine with it. He's like a 4 time world champion or something. You don't need a reason for him to have a title match.


And the crowd was totally dead. In comparison to anybody else winning it. It's like they just didn't care at all. They wasted all this time watching a wonderful match for WWE to just take a dump on the crowd's head. How much more time are we going to waste on a failed experiment?
You could probably get away with bringing him into the title picture, sure, but I don't think it'd be a good idea. Orton's been on a cold streak recently, storyline wise, and he's the most logical guy to have won that match because it gives him something to do going forward. Bryan's story is already set for Summerslam. Punk's story is already set for Summerslam. I'm sure they've got something set for RVD. It would've been a complete waste for Bryan or Punk to win that match, the two guys that would've gotten the biggest pop. Bryan's already in the Summerslam main event and their hottest commodity and it would've been overkill to have him win it only to cash in a Summerslam.
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Old 07-17-2013, 01:27 PM   #576
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Quote:
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No, he doesn't. He's a former multiple time champion. You don't need a reason for a title shot when you are multiple time champion. You just don't. And even if nobody really needed the briefcase, why would you go with the most boring, risky option? He's proven he can't cut it in the main event of WM when everything is circled around him. He's proven that he can't "say no" to drugs. And he's proven to be a huge fucking asshole to guys in the locker room by getting them fired. What is the upside?


We've done this before.
How would you have booked the main event? Just curious. Everyone seems so insanely agitated but I haven't read a better idea.
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Old 07-17-2013, 01:27 PM   #577
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Bryan didn't have to be in the main event of SS and I actually think it's a bad idea. I don't think they're going to have him beat Cena and the only two options other than that would be:

1.) Cena completely destroying his momentum and beating him cleanly for no reason.
2.) Having some sort of "cop out" ending with no finish that also destroys his momentum.


I would've had Bryan win MitB and keep these reaction going for months.


Now, if Bryan wins I'll completely shut the fuck up but I don't see that happening.
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Old 07-17-2013, 01:32 PM   #578
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Quote:
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How would you have booked the main event? Just curious. Everyone seems so insanely agitated but I haven't read a better idea.
First, I would've had Henry beat Cena. Bryan wins the match, the crowd commits suicide out of excitement, and everyone in the world is happy for months. Scrap Bryan/Henry at Summerslam and draw out the reactions for a long while until he finally wins cleanly in a match set up ahead of time. In the weeks leading up, Henry just fucking destroys him at every turn to the point where Bryan looks like he will never be able to win the match. When the match comes Henry dominates almost the whole time until Bryan locks on the Yes lock and Henry can't get out of it. Henry finally taps and world peace is spread across the entire planet.


That's how I would've booked it because I'm not a WWE writer and I don't have a mental disability.
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Old 07-17-2013, 01:35 PM   #579
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There would be no more war. All countries would have food and clean water. And Daniel Bryan would be WWE Champion.
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Old 07-17-2013, 01:48 PM   #580
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Nobody needed the briefcase, because it was an ALL-STAR match. The guys in it are supposed to be established and over already.

Of the lot, they picked the one guy who would get the most muted reaction.

Giving it to Bryan would've put the crowd into a total frenzy, that would go down as one of the greatest pay-per-view endings of all time.

Then Bryan would show that he's the ultimate bad-ass, by giving Cena a month to prepare for the match at SummerSlam, instead of having this Make-a-Wish title shot handout business.
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Old 07-17-2013, 02:12 PM   #581
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First, I would've had Henry beat Cena. Bryan wins the match, the crowd commits suicide out of excitement, and everyone in the world is happy for months. Scrap Bryan/Henry at Summerslam and draw out the reactions for a long while until he finally wins cleanly in a match set up ahead of time. In the weeks leading up, Henry just fucking destroys him at every turn to the point where Bryan looks like he will never be able to win the match. When the match comes Henry dominates almost the whole time until Bryan locks on the Yes lock and Henry can't get out of it. Henry finally taps and world peace is spread across the entire planet.


That's how I would've booked it because I'm not a WWE writer and I don't have a mental disability.
I have no problem with that, but what would Cena be doing?
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Old 07-17-2013, 02:15 PM   #582
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Originally Posted by NoJabbaNoBogRoll View Post
Nobody needed the briefcase, because it was an ALL-STAR match. The guys in it are supposed to be established and over already.

Of the lot, they picked the one guy who would get the most muted reaction.

Giving it to Bryan would've put the crowd into a total frenzy, that would go down as one of the greatest pay-per-view endings of all time.

Then Bryan would show that he's the ultimate bad-ass, by giving Cena a month to prepare for the match at SummerSlam, instead of having this Make-a-Wish title shot handout business.
Again, I think you waste the briefcase cashing in at Summerslam since Bryan's already got his match. I'm all for cool pay per view moments, but you shouldn't make major booking decisions based on them.
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Old 07-17-2013, 02:19 PM   #583
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Originally Posted by Narcissus View Post
Just nobody even remotely cares about him at all.
lol. Come on. Even the guys on the "We hate Orton podcast" have admitted that Orton is over despite your hatred of him. Don't be so blind as to ride the smark crowd as representing "everyone". The man is fucking over.
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Old 07-17-2013, 02:21 PM   #584
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Originally Posted by Poit View Post
For all his faults, Randy Orton is still over with the crowd. I still think that he could put someone over massively by losing a surprise cash-in.
It would put Daniel Bryan over huge is right after he beats Cena for the title he beats Orton after a surprise cash-in.


Would completely kill Orton though. Mainly I think Orton should only be used to put over DB by losing his briefcase match
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Old 07-17-2013, 02:23 PM   #585
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tb1 View Post
Again, I think you waste the briefcase cashing in at Summerslam since Bryan's already got his match. I'm all for cool pay per view moments, but you shouldn't make major booking decisions based on them.
I don't see it as a waste. There are two money in the bank contracts, so I'm fine with one of them being cashed in like this.
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Old 07-17-2013, 02:27 PM   #586
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You know what? I would have given the brifcase to RVD. As someone mentioned, nobody really needed the breifcase all that much. By having RVD win the briefcase, you get a huge hometown pop, send the fans home happy, and give him something to do for the few months he's back. Whenever he cashes in, it's not really important if he wins or loses. I'm sure he doesn't care either. He just wants a light schedule and he wants to be paid. Take advantage of the fact that he's motivated.

For Bryan, well, he's already in the main event. And in my dreams, he's winning. You can't take my dreams away from me. Because I'm sleeping when I'm dreaming.
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Old 07-17-2013, 02:34 PM   #587
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Quote:
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I have no problem with that, but what would Cena be doing?
It isn't something that would need to be immediately worried about. There's no rush on Bryan cashing in. Cena could have his rematch with Henry and then move on to his next feud with whoever. Sheamus, Orton, Shield, Alberto, Big Show... They could definitely find something for him to do.
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Old 07-17-2013, 02:36 PM   #588
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Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
lol. Come on. Even the guys on the "We hate Orton podcast" have admitted that Orton is over despite your hatred of him. Don't be so blind as to ride the smark crowd as representing "everyone". The man is fucking over.
Little to no reaction at the PPV and no support whatsoever on RAW. The guy is supposed to be a face.


Normally the guy manages to get reactions here and there, but if they push somebody and the crowd goes dead, that's a bad sign.
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Old 07-17-2013, 02:37 PM   #589
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Originally Posted by Tb1 View Post
I'm all for cool pay per view moments, but you shouldn't make major booking decisions based on them.
Exactly. WWE will be compelled to do it at SummerSlam though and that's why I think they'll put the title on Bryan. Whenever they're in some sort of true "If Cena wins, we riot" situation where he's facing an internet darling in front of a smark crowd, he seems to lose more often than not.
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Old 07-17-2013, 02:39 PM   #590
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No, that's wrong. What major booking decision involves Orton? What is he going to do to wow everyone? He has proven many times that he can't handle being "the guy." So what can you even do with him at this point? It just seems like such a waste.
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Old 07-17-2013, 02:41 PM   #591
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You can use him to put over Bryan
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Old 07-17-2013, 02:41 PM   #592
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Orton is the antithesis of excitement. Everything he does is slow. So slow. God, thinking about it seriously makes me angry. He talks slow, his matches are slow, he relies on rest holds almost completely. Watch the MitB match over again. Him grabbing the briefcase seriously took like 1 full minute. Slowly climbing, slowly looking around, slowly unhooking. It is just brutal to watch. Absolutely brutal. Such a buzzkill.
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Old 07-17-2013, 02:50 PM   #593
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I haven't watched any wrestling in months to years, but due to enjoying the recent KOTF Cringecasts with similar lineups immensely,I will give this a listen.
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Old 07-17-2013, 03:12 PM   #594
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Narcissus View Post
No, that's wrong. What major booking decision involves Orton? What is he going to do to wow everyone? He has proven many times that he can't handle being "the guy." So what can you even do with him at this point? It just seems like such a waste.
Narc, at this point it isn't "What can Orton do to wow everyone?", it's "What can Orton do to help make people?". The crowd sees him as a top guy. Him tapping out clean to Bryan helps solidify Bryan at the top. Him losing clean to Punk reinforces Punk after his hiatus. I think they're looking at Orton as a springboard for others.
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Old 07-17-2013, 03:15 PM   #595
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Listen, I don't think Orton is the worst wrestler ever or anything, I just have a hard time seeing what his upside is. He are has two wellness violations. Putting stock into a guy that could be gone from the company at any moment seems downright irresponsible. He can't be depended on. The wellness issues aside, they've already tried everything with this guy and he either fucks it up or it doesn't go over. That wm match with Trips had one of the best buildups for a match that I've ever seen but when it came time to do or die, he died. The match was an awful, slow, anti-climatic mess. That was his shot and he blew it. To make matters worse, he is an immature dickhead. He forced Amy Weber, Palmer Cannon, and Ken Kennedy out of the company because he is a child.

You've got a guy that you can't depend on, that can't handle the responsibility of "top guy," and that can't behave himself on the road. Why are we investing in this?
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Old 07-17-2013, 03:16 PM   #596
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He can put guys over without winning the main event of one of the biggest shows of the year. It killed the crowd and it wasn't necessary at all.
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Old 07-17-2013, 03:20 PM   #597
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Didn't JBL cause Cannon to leave?
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Old 07-17-2013, 03:22 PM   #598
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MITB is #5 at best when it comes to PPVs
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Old 07-17-2013, 03:28 PM   #599
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Quote:
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Didn't JBL cause Cannon to leave?
Well, now I'm not sure. You could be correct.


Even so. Randy Orton deficated in Amy Weber's bag and got Ken Kennedy fired for a back drop. There was also a triple threat match with Orton/Kofi/Cena where Orton started yelling "stupid" at Kofi for a botch and then complained to management about him. The guy is a grade-A fuckface.

Not to mention he's slapped a reporter, stole the memory card out of a fan's camera after getting his picture taken, and is generally known to just be a huge dick in general to fans.
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Old 07-17-2013, 03:47 PM   #600
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Yeah JBL caused Cannon to quit.

Orton was also the guy who told Kofi to slow down his work and stop jumping around like a fucking idiot (my expression, not his, but hopefully it was his) and making everything look like shit. Kofi blew him off, hence midcard purgatory.
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