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Old 07-23-2008, 06:27 PM   #681
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Quick question

To hell with spoiler tags by the way, we're almost a week in, if anyone cares enough to get upset about being spoiled has seen it by now, if not tough shit, they should click the thread.

Anyways,
So the mob realizes the Joker was right and they hire him to destroy Batman. Why then did they give him his half of the money for delivering them Lao from jail, but without killing Batman?
Any insight?
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Old 07-23-2008, 06:31 PM   #682
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I thought they hired him to get their money back?
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Old 07-23-2008, 06:43 PM   #683
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox View Post
It's called "calling someones bullshit." And it's fun.

I have met plenty of girls that stupid. It's not like he's claiming he took the biggest poop in the world or anything.
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Old 07-23-2008, 07:14 PM   #684
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holy fuck. absolutely incredible movie. like beyond words. plus i got my 3d holographic poster on, which is basically all these combined into one poster of unbridled amazingness:

anyway, i think the best scene was
SPOILER: show
the pencil seen. fucks sake. when he stuck the pencil in the table you knew it was coming but it happened so fast everyone cracked up laughing half disgusted and half holy shit.


I don't think anyone should try to carry on the joker cause it's not gonna be topped and it's only going to be a point to bring future films down. amazing.
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Old 07-23-2008, 07:17 PM   #685
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Destor View Post
I thought they hired him to get their money back?
I thought they hired him to take care of Batman. That's what he was doing up until he gave up/embraced Batman and went with the plan of being caught in order to retrieve Lao. Before then Maroni even says, you can solve all this by turning yourself over to the Joker. It's also preceded by the other top mobster saying "he was right, we need to hire him to kill batman."

I think perhaps they hired him to do both. Kill Batman and/or get their money back. Whatever it took to get their money back, which he originally thought was simply to kill The Batman. Then he took another route.
Maybe bringing Lao to them was even better.

Theres two or three ways to look at the situation and they all make sense. The only reason theres speculation is because there is no scene in which the conditions of the mobs deal with the Joker is explained. Nor is there a scene preceding him burning all the money during his meeting with the mob.

I guess the viewer can take their pick between one of the two possiblities.

What does everyone think?
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Old 07-23-2008, 08:38 PM   #686
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A section of their money goes missing at the start of the film (Joker stole it).

Lao moves the rest of their money to an "unknown location" for safety reasons, and plans to go back to China so that he cannot be interrogated. Joker arrives and says that Batman will bring Lao back and their money will be in jeopardy, and they don't listen to him.

Batman brings Lao back, but he refuses to tell the Police where the money is located.

The mob hires Joker to kill the Batman, probaby not expecting to see their money again, but realizing that if they ever plan to MAKE more money, they need him out of the picture for good.

Joker manages to retrieve Lao from the jail and get the money back from him (using his tantalizing powers of suggestion, no doubt), and the mob doesn't have a chance to be "happy" with him getting the money back, as he kills the Italian and Two-Face kills Maroni.

I assume that the mob's half of the money is still with the surviving members of the mob, as Joker does say "It's only my half," when he burns the pile of money with Lao on top.
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Old 07-23-2008, 09:45 PM   #687
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mitchanthropic View Post

This guy?

That's Ethan Bennett.

He was a police officer, but you were right about the being Bruce's friend and also being "of colour", as it were.


YES!

There was also a scene where he was in prison talking to Batman or maybe he was quarantined or something which is why I confused him for a convict.

Well done Mitch.

Now to figure who is Atlas...
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Old 07-23-2008, 09:49 PM   #688
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I understand that, but it kinda still eluded my question. How's it "his half" if they never paid him for the job, because he never did it?

Also, the mob does get a chance to be happy because the meeting with the pile of money was pre-arranged. Maroni doesn't go because he tips Gordon off about it, but the Chechen does and thats where he gets killed. Maroni was obviously supposed to be there for the "exchange" or whatever, which is why Joker asks where the italian is.

So what basically happens is, Joker gets all the money from Lao like you said but doesnt specifically complete what they hired him for, but when the Chechen gets there they talk about how Joker lived up to his word. Which makes it quite simple.

A) It was a different outcome, but they were equally happy with The Joker for setting the situation right, and were gonna give him his half.
or
B) The capture of Lao was also a condition of their agreement and they were giving him his half.

or C) The Joker hooked them up bigtime and considered half of the money his to burn.

I'd lean towards it being either B or C

It's really the only peice of the puzzle that is a bit confusing and doesnt' have a concrete answer. It only doesn't have an answer because it's never adressed on screen and several things that transpire indicate different possibilities in that portion of the plot.

It's not a flaw though, because either scenario makes sense. However, theres no way of telling what the deal is
Last edited by Jeritron; 07-23-2008 at 09:52 PM.
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Old 07-23-2008, 09:57 PM   #689
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Plus he burnt that whole pile, and said he was only burning his half. That means there was another half of the money Lao hid somewhere else. Perhaps he burnt that secret with Lao to fuck them over.

Or perhaps the pile was ALL the money and in his mind he only burnt his half, but it caught onto their half as well.

But the questions still remains, why was it HIS HALF? And why did the Chechen confirm that half the money was his for the taking?

See what I'm saying?
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Old 07-23-2008, 09:58 PM   #690
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeritron
Or perhaps the pile was ALL the money and in his mind he only burnt his half, but it caught onto their half as well.
this was my assumption
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Old 07-23-2008, 10:03 PM   #691
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Thats what I'm saying. It's all assumption. Theres no wrong or right answer yet to be discovered by me or anyone I asked based on the information given that confirms or denies any of the possibilites above.

I just wish I could have a concrete answer so it doesn't bug me everytime I watch
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Old 07-23-2008, 10:04 PM   #692
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Quote:
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this was my assumption
Certainly does seem like the type of thing he'd do.
But then again, so does burning his half along with the person who knows the whereabouts of another half.
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Old 07-23-2008, 10:05 PM   #693
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I am pretty sure there was 2 stacks of money that I saw. Might be mistaken, but that's what I thought I saw. Looked like he only set one stack on fire.
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Old 07-23-2008, 10:07 PM   #694
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeritron View Post
Plus he burnt that whole pile, and said he was only burning his half. That means there was another half of the money Lao hid somewhere else. Perhaps he burnt that secret with Lao to fuck them over.

Or perhaps the pile was ALL the money and in his mind he only burnt his half, but it caught onto their half as well.

But the questions still remains, why was it HIS HALF? And why did the Chechen confirm that half the money was his for the taking?

See what I'm saying?
Gamble was dead. Maroni was dead. So there were two of the staunchest opponents to the Joker taken out of the picture. The Italian or Chechen (is that even a nationality? that can't be spelt right) or whatever wanted to hire the Joker in the first place. So he would not object to giving him money, having Lao returned. Joker kills him anyway, so it was probably the whole pile of money, which in Joker's mind could've been "his half" (ie all the money is his, since he retrieved Lao and probably got access to where he was keeping it).
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Old 07-23-2008, 10:08 PM   #695
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Well what do you know, that is how you spell it. I was under the assumption it was Chechnyan.
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Old 07-23-2008, 10:11 PM   #696
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mitchanthropic View Post
Gamble was dead. Maroni was dead. So there were two of the staunchest opponents to the Joker taken out of the picture. The Italian or Chechen (is that even a nationality? that can't be spelt right) or whatever wanted to hire the Joker in the first place. So he would not object to giving him money, having Lao returned. Joker kills him anyway, so it was probably the whole pile of money, which in Joker's mind could've been "his half" (ie all the money is his, since he retrieved Lao and probably got access to where he was keeping it).

Maroni wasn't dead yet at the time of the money burning. He ducked out because he tipped Gordon off about it. Gordon never made it to the ship the money was on because he got sidetracked by the hospital threat.
Which now that you point out, raises the question...why did Maroni tip Gordon off about the whereabouts of the Joker if his half of the money was there and would be in jeopardy?

But other than that great points
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Old 07-23-2008, 11:07 PM   #697
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Maroni may not be dead yet..
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Old 07-23-2008, 11:14 PM   #698
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeritron View Post
Maroni wasn't dead yet at the time of the money burning. He ducked out because he tipped Gordon off about it. Gordon never made it to the ship the money was on because he got sidetracked by the hospital threat.
Which now that you point out, raises the question...why did Maroni tip Gordon off about the whereabouts of the Joker if his half of the money was there and would be in jeopardy?

But other than that great points
Oh, right. I must've remembered it in screwed up order, my bad.

But still.
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Old 07-23-2008, 11:29 PM   #699
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It's called "calling someones bullshit." And it's fun.
this is how u call bull shit:



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Old 07-24-2008, 12:46 AM   #700
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I was also of the mind that the Joker was burning his half, but the money was all in one pile.
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Old 07-24-2008, 01:09 AM   #701
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Wow, just got back from it. Fucking ridiculously amazing. Can not wait for the next one.
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Old 07-24-2008, 02:42 AM   #702
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Saw it at IMAX last Weds and saw it again today at the regular theatre. Had to point out how much more AMAZING it is with IMAX. Wow, that was an experience. See it if you have one near you as it's worth it.

Not to mention since it was an advance screening, we got free Batman beer and tickets out of it.

Still, an incredible film and one that my friend, a hater of all things Bats, is also praising. Seeing it again on Friday.
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Old 07-24-2008, 10:05 AM   #703
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Finally got to see this yesterday ... Heath was simply AMAZING. he definately made this movie for me. Gonna see it again today!
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Old 07-24-2008, 02:03 PM   #704
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Am I the only one who thinks this movie was so incredibly good that I don't know if I want another sequel?

I mean, I want another movie hlaf as good as that but it's destined to dissapoint. Whatever villian they have left to use is subpar. Joker CANNOT be re-cast.
Storywise, I feel like they were going in a direction that lent itself to a bigger storyarch involving the Joker, but without Heath Ledger I don't want to see it.

I also don't buy into the "Two Face is still alive" garbage. Fanboys and people plugged into the comic book way of thinking are inclined to say so anytime a character dies in a movie, but I highly doubt it's the case in the minds of the filmmakers. I think this series is above that shit. His origin and initial fall from grace is the most interesting and deepest part of the character, and everything after that is one dimensional. They did it perfectly and I don't expect him back or want to see him back.

MAYBE they can come up with a good take on Riddler. I just see another movie destined to be a step backwards.
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Old 07-24-2008, 02:30 PM   #705
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I agree with Jeritron's post. Joker shouldn't be recast, recastings always disappoint and there is no need to with this one as Joker's story was already told in this movie. Making additional Joker movie's would just set up that disappointment.

I agree that "Two-Face" is dead too. If this were the comic world, he would totally be alive and lurking, but seeing as it is a movie, he is dead. His death served as the catalyst to make Batman a true paraiah in Gotham. Also, this Two-Face character wasn't really so much a guy who became a supervillian as a man who snapped and went out on a crazy bender. Comic book Two-Face is a criminal, movie Two-Face is, as Jeritron said, more of a man who fell from grace. It didn't seem like they were intending the character to have longevity of a recurring villian. I saw questions posed about why Batman fell and survived, couldn't Two-Face? Besides the Batsuit, you could account for the fact that it IS chance, and Batman got the good heads, and Harvey the bad heads.

That said, I think they will probably do a third. With the records this thing set I don't think anybody is going to let them just up and walk away from it. It is going to be hard to impossible to top. That's why I think they need something fresh, besides villian attacks Gotham again, but not ridiculous like villian kidnaps Alfred.
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Old 07-24-2008, 02:34 PM   #706
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You really could just play the world vs Batman for the next one. DO it with out a traditional villian.
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Old 07-24-2008, 02:44 PM   #707
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I like that idea in principle, but then it seems like you just have Batman busting up street crime for two hours while avoiding hurting Gothamites with pitch-forks and torches. Would be a good time for the Penguin to become mayor of Gotham, oh wait...
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Old 07-24-2008, 05:11 PM   #708
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http://www.buycostumes.com/Batman-Da...uctDetail.aspx


siiiiiiiiiick i'm so buying this.



Ps they have one of those of batman too.
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Old 07-24-2008, 05:29 PM   #709
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Aslong as your not dressing up as batman, i'd kill you
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Old 07-24-2008, 05:34 PM   #710
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I can see someone buying that Batman costume and then try to fight some crime.
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Old 07-24-2008, 05:58 PM   #711
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Nice to see Zeuz of past wwf fame get a little role in the movie, near the end of the film.
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Old 07-24-2008, 07:19 PM   #712
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Just been to see it. One word...AWESOME.

However, a coupl eof the guys I went with didn't like it. One of them I was expecting it from (he hated Iron Man) the other, though, I was expecting him to really enjoy it.

They thought it was "too lomg" and "boring".

I half expected to come on here and find at least one person that didn't think it was at least a 8/10.

Also, do you think it's worth watching for a second time on IMAX?
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Old 07-24-2008, 09:39 PM   #713
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YES
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Old 07-24-2008, 09:42 PM   #714
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its worth watching about 5 times anyway, so duh.
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Old 07-24-2008, 09:50 PM   #715
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Your friends suck. If they don't like TDK, what do they like? Speed Racer?
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Old 07-25-2008, 12:25 AM   #716
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Speed Racer was good.
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Old 07-25-2008, 02:31 AM   #717
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I want to go see this again.
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Old 07-25-2008, 03:55 AM   #718
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox View Post
Your friends suck. If they don't like TDK, what do they like? Speed Racer?
I asked one of them what their favourite film was. He couldn't answer. I asked what films they liked. He didn't answer. I asked what films he had purchased on DVD. No answer.

I gave the film an 8/10 after seeing it but presumed that would go up over time as it would have been hard to meet expectations this early on.

HOWEVER, I think it deserves notching up to a 9 at least for the following reasons...

1) For the FIRST time ever I'm considering watching a film at the cinema for a second time.

2) I'm already anticipating the DVD release.

3) I'm considering purchasing the (bound to be awful) game that is due to tie in to the DVD release (if rumours are true).

4) I would have watched 'Batman Forever' last night if not for the fact that the tape is in the loft / attic. (As it happens I got a fix of the Nolan / Bale / Caine trio by rewatching 'The Prestige' (Although I hadn't realised it was Nolan directed on first viewing)).
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Old 07-25-2008, 04:05 AM   #719
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You stated all those reasons, but yet only would bump it to a 9? What movies do you consider a perfect 10, if you've never wanted to see one in the theater again until now.
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Old 07-25-2008, 04:10 AM   #720
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Seriously a 9?

Wow.

How about you give an example of a 10?
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