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Old 07-27-2008, 10:15 PM   #761
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I do enjoy Nolan's take on Batman. However, as far as the look and feel of Gotham City itself (sets, backdrops etc.), I think Burton had that down better.
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Old 07-27-2008, 11:51 PM   #762
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I think Gotham actually looked better in Batman Begins, personally. In Begins it felt like Gotham. In Dark Knight it mainly just felt like a large city.

I also missed the Wayne Manor and Bat-cave sets.
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Old 07-27-2008, 11:57 PM   #763
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it felt like chicago.... considering they did nothing to disguise the city when they filmed it
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Old 07-27-2008, 11:58 PM   #764
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i waseven able to recognize buildings they were in when they were filming indoors
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Old 07-27-2008, 11:59 PM   #765
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CMON LETS BEAT THE TITANIC
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Old 07-28-2008, 02:30 AM   #766
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It's being rolled out round the rest of the world now - could easily hit $1bn, which would be pretty crazy
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Old 07-28-2008, 04:57 AM   #767
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Saw it again today

loved it more this time
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Old 07-28-2008, 02:28 PM   #768
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lock Jaw View Post
I think Gotham actually looked better in Batman Begins, personally. In Begins it felt like Gotham. In Dark Knight it mainly just felt like a large city.

I also missed the Wayne Manor and Bat-cave sets.
I think this is part of a stylistic approach. The streets are cleaning up, and most of it's set at daytime, because Batman has scared criminals away from acting at night.
The parts at night feel like Gotham. I think this is because it's ALWAYS nighttime in other interpretations of Gotham.
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Old 07-28-2008, 03:57 PM   #769
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Saw it today. Fucking loved it! This is the only film where I've ever let myself get caught up in the hype, but it was totally worth it!

I think one reason it worked so well is because all the characters are so well acted... like, the Joker is really hateable, Batman we wanna help, we all feel sad for Dent etc etc. It all worked.
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Old 07-28-2008, 10:38 PM   #770
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The writing was kinda bland with the exception of the Joker or Dent. Like besides those 2 characters I coulda cared less for anyone else. As good as the movie was it coulda been better .
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Old 07-28-2008, 11:21 PM   #771
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Batman/Wayne took a real backseat in this one... one of Keaton's gripes with the Burton films.

But the Two Face strand should have ended in the hospital with Gordon when he revealed his fucked up face, and his turning evil/feud with Batman saved for the next movie, given more time and depth. One review I read noted, rightly, that hardly any time is given to Dent's transmogrification into a twisted loon. He burns his face, next thing you know, he's lost all his morals.
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Old 07-28-2008, 11:35 PM   #772
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Have to agree Carl, they didnt elaborate storyline-wise too much on Dent/Two-Face, I hope he didnt actually die, he played an interesting albeit short role in this interpretation.
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Old 07-28-2008, 11:55 PM   #773
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The movie almost starred Harvey Dent...
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Old 07-29-2008, 12:07 AM   #774
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Class Act Carl View Post
Batman/Wayne took a real backseat in this one... one of Keaton's gripes with the Burton films.

But the Two Face strand should have ended in the hospital with Gordon when he revealed his fucked up face, and his turning evil/feud with Batman saved for the next movie, given more time and depth. One review I read noted, rightly, that hardly any time is given to Dent's transmogrification into a twisted loon. He burns his face, next thing you know, he's lost all his morals.
a lot of this has to do with what he lost and how he lost it. and then add on top of that the killer of his woman coming into his hospital room and talking to him about the addition of chaos as fairness, and you can understand how easily he could snap. while i agree that they could have held off on the climax of the story, it would have taken a lot away to wait a few years for it. and who's to say that two face is done? is that confirmed?
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Old 07-29-2008, 01:21 AM   #775
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Two-Face is done. Dead is dead. Batman only survived that fall because of his suit.

Harvey Dent didn't just suddenly turn evil. The pressure and everything was weighing on him the whole movie even if he didn't want to show it. Then his fiancee gets killed while he listens to her and lies to her, he gets deformed, Joker pushes and prods him...

Everything regarding Harvey Dent was excellent, and in no way should he be brought back.

If you want to see a sudden turn from good to evil go watch Star Wars Episode III
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Old 07-29-2008, 07:06 AM   #776
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Well said LJ
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Old 07-29-2008, 11:57 AM   #777
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Im off to see this tonight, been the only day i've been able to get tickets.
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Old 07-29-2008, 02:24 PM   #778
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Anyone who thinks Two Face was wasted, sudden, or condensed wasn't paying attention to what was going on substance wise the whole movie, nor do they know much about film.
No offense.
The entire movies story arch and emotional build/climax was centered around Harvey Dent.
Joker was an absolute, introduced the same way he's left. His presence only gives an effect and drives the plot, which enhances and explores the characters of Bruce Wayne, Rachel, Gordon, Alfred and the rest.
However, the main focus in terms of development and story was Harvey Dent.
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Old 07-29-2008, 05:41 PM   #779
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Class Act Carl View Post
Batman/Wayne took a real backseat in this one... one of Keaton's gripes with the Burton films.

But the Two Face strand should have ended in the hospital with Gordon when he revealed his fucked up face, and his turning evil/feud with Batman saved for the next movie, given more time and depth. One review I read noted, rightly, that hardly any time is given to Dent's transmogrification into a twisted loon. He burns his face, next thing you know, he's lost all his morals.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fallen Angel View Post
Have to agree Carl, they didnt elaborate storyline-wise too much on Dent/Two-Face, I hope he didnt actually die, he played an interesting albeit short role in this interpretation.
They didnt make Dent/Two Face out to be a psycho who loses his morals... He lost the love of his life and lost it. He was still himself but was out for revenge. What dont you guys get about this?
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Old 07-29-2008, 05:44 PM   #780
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Just saw it again... didnt realise this the first time but Joker Lied about where he put Harvy and Rachel. Batman went to get Rachel and even told the cops he was, and Gordon gave the cos the address for where Harvy supposedly was, but when Batan got to Harvy, he had an "oh shit" look on his face and when gordon got to the building where Rachel was it exploded.

Found that interesting.
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Old 07-29-2008, 06:46 PM   #781
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Wow. Loved this. Can't really elaborate as i've just got in from it, but it was stunning.
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Old 07-29-2008, 09:26 PM   #782
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Quote:
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Anyone who thinks Two Face was wasted, sudden, or condensed wasn't paying attention to what was going on substance wise the whole movie, nor do they know much about film.
I wish people would stop making such arrogant blanket statements on here. The fact I studied media and film at degree level should suggest I don't not "know much about film".

I wasn't dissing the character of Two Face/Dent, just thought that as integral as Dent was in this film, he could have equally been the axis of the third film fully evolved into the Two Face character. It was almost an anti-climax that, after establishing the Dent character throughout the film, Two Face should come and go in pretty much the last quarter. TDK could have been all Dent/the seeds of Two Face, and then the rampage of Two Face could have carried a large part of the 3rd film, if they make one.

Of course, this is assuming there will be a 3rd and if that isn't set in stone, then it's fair enough that they should just go all the way with him in TDK.
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Old 07-29-2008, 10:59 PM   #783
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The thing is, if they did that and saved Two-Face for the next film it would have been totally like splitting one movie into two. Two-Face was a direct result of The Joker and his actions and should be dealt with in the movie that had The Joker, not in his own. It worked perfectly.
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Old 07-29-2008, 11:44 PM   #784
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Yeah that actually really good thinking there. The 2nd movie always has to stand on it's own.

Otherwise you get Dead Man's chest which is just a set up to the 3rd movie. That is no fun.
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Old 07-29-2008, 11:53 PM   #785
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Hate to be repetitive but Heath Ledger was absoloutely flawless in this movie
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Old 07-30-2008, 01:04 AM   #786
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reavant View Post
They didnt make Dent/Two Face out to be a psycho who loses his morals... He lost the love of his life and lost it. He was still himself but was out for revenge. What dont you guys get about this?
I am merely stating that one of the most interesting/cool characters in the Batman saga is only likely to be in one movie.
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Old 07-30-2008, 07:54 AM   #787
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The thing that got to him most was that the corruption and wrong doing in the city is what cost him to lose what he loved most, and he wanted revenge. Gordon's men were corrupt, and Batman's plans set it all in action. He resented them and himself for taking a stand.
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Old 07-30-2008, 02:26 PM   #788
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I wish people would stop making such arrogant statements on here.

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I studied media and film at degree level
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Old 07-30-2008, 03:56 PM   #789
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^ Lol. Honestly, I'll take your word for it even though you could be making it up. Doesn't automaticly qualify your understanding of the story arch of the movie.
I could drop the fact that I major in film studies and screenwriting, but I'd sound like a pompous asshole and it doesnt' really matter.
Any joe off the street can make their own assertions and possibly be more correct or agreeable than someone who wen to USC film. It's a peice of paper. Some of the best directors, filmmakers, or film critics int he fuckin world never went to film school, so lets not be arrogant pricks.

It's based on a comic, that doesn't mean it is one.
Venom in Spiderman 3 would be a prime example of what you're talking about, but if you feel it's present here I just can't agree with you and am not sure if we're seeing the same movie.
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Old 07-30-2008, 04:01 PM   #790
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Michael Corleone is prob the best transformation of character from light to dark. Harvey Dent isn't #2, but he's up there.
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Old 07-30-2008, 04:29 PM   #791
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Jeritron, do you mean Venom is a prime example of a character that the seeds were sown and was rushed into the climax?
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Old 07-30-2008, 04:40 PM   #792
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Re: Roxer.

Way to misquote me completely. By the way, neither having an education nor providing a basis for an opinion could reasonably be considered "arrogant".

Well.... except maybe in the eyes of those who have neither. Mate.
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Old 07-30-2008, 04:44 PM   #793
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Jeritron, do you mean Venom is a prime example of a character that the seeds were sown and was rushed into the climax?
I say hes a prime example of a character who was rushed, wasted, and underbuilt.
The oppostie of Harvey Dent
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Old 07-30-2008, 04:44 PM   #794
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It's a peice of paper. Some of the best directors, filmmakers, or film critics int he fuckin world never went to film school, so lets not be arrogant pricks.
You said that anyone of that opinion cannot know much about film. I am of that opinion, yet I profess that I am not completely clueless about film due to my academic background studying that subject. Wasn't a boast, wasn't arrogant, didn't profess myself an expert or more knowledgable than others, just disregarded your own dismissive statement.
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Old 07-30-2008, 04:47 PM   #795
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I just don't understand how you can think that climax would be better fit for another film when it was the basis of the one at hand. If it didn't occur in TDK, the movie wouldn't have been complete.
I thought it was executed amazingly and wouldn't have been better reserved for another movie, but I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.
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Old 07-30-2008, 05:02 PM   #796
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All I said was with the buildup of Dent throughout the film, excellently executed, the actual climax of his storyline seemed rushed in comparison or at least did not live up to its full potential.

If you seperate the two characters as seperate entities, this was Dent's film, and Two Face was a bit part in comparison. Why could they not have satisfied the Dent storyline in this film with him becoming Two Face, and whet the audience's appetite for the next chapter which would have prominantly featured Two Face? Would it really have ruined the film if Nolan hadn't shot his load all in one movie? Just like we knew at the end of Begins that Joker was looming on the horizon, this film could have resolved the Joker issue and left the shadow of Two Face hanging over Gotham ready for the next installment.

This isn't a knock as such, but there was nothing hinted at for the future, unlike the last one. Not saying each film should end on a cliffhanger but there seems little chance that there won't be a third, Nolan or not. Something to draw the audience back, a couple of loose ends left untied, wouldn't have detracted from the appeal of the movie as a stand-alone viewing whatsoever to me.
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Old 07-30-2008, 06:49 PM   #797
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That would have been a common popcorn film's approach looking to keep people busy for 2 hours and not do anything meaningful other than secure a teaser for the next installment, but this instead resolved his story as the climax of the entire film, since it built to it.
I feel leaving it as a cliffhanger would have diminished this film, and left it empty without a real emotional climax or closure to Dent's story.
It also would have left the next film shallow.

The entire point of the Harvey Dent fall from grace was that it happened briefly and was damaging to the entire city's morale, thus the need to conceal it.
In the next film, he would have had to impact the whole city and it would have diminished his character as we saw him become just another freak. It also would have taken away from the characters of Gordon and Batman. The film would have still worked, but it wouldn't be as great as it is. It was his movie, that's why he closes the film and the Joker doesn't. Saving him for the next flick would make this film just a great comic book movie and the next film likely the same.
Instead, they created a full character arch and meaningful story that has garnered the emotional impact and response that it has.

The most interesting and powerful part of Harvey Dent is and always has been his story as a great man and his initial origin story and fall from grace. His revenge and the shock of his turn on friends Batman and Gordon are the only powerful elements of his character. After that, he's one dimensional and becomes a regular bad guy on the shelf of the rogues gallery.
Saving Two Face for part 3 would have been a poor choice, and bringing him back would be even worse. That's because theres simply no more to tell, and if you left him for part 3 after the hospital bed scene, there wouldn't be much to tell either. It would be brief and wouldn't fit into the story the way it did here.
He's a symbol for the whole theme of the film in fact, it all stems from the line "you either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain."
This is told through Harvey Dent, and we see it's effects on the protagonist Batman in the end.
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Old 07-30-2008, 06:56 PM   #798
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I saw it tonight. It was pretty good. I didn't really see the point of bringing back the Scarecrow for 30 seconds, even though at the end of Begins it was announced he was still at large, but anyways.

I do think the film was too dark for a 12a rating, as every muppet of a parent with a 7-8 year old child will take them along to see it. But that is more to do with the BFCC and their lack of a backbone and a half-assed classification.

Oh, and film studies is not exactly "academic."
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Old 07-30-2008, 07:04 PM   #799
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Old 07-30-2008, 07:06 PM   #800
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I felt the Scarecrow scene was brief and throw away from most stanpoints. The reason I liked it, not only because I thought it was a cool scene, but because it creates that feeling that they're picking up right where the last movie left off.
We get introduced to The Joker, who's going to be the threat in the film.
But then we see Gordon at the bat signal and then Scarecrow up to no good. Finally, we see Batman show up in all his glory in the same suit as the first, fighting crime the same way, as if we've really missed nothing of any importance.
I think the whole purpose of that sequence was to create the whole, this is only a few weeks or months later feel.
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