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Old 07-30-2008, 07:10 PM   #801
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Destor View Post
Carl should work for Hollywood. They love his kind of thinking.



Also of note, the hollywood way of thinking, as we all know sucks, is what landed Batman in the rut it found itself in. The board literally made an executive decision to can Burton for Schumacher because they "weren't selling enough happy meals."

At one point, Burton was actually asked by a higher up what that stuff coming out of Penguin's mouth was, and remarked "that doesn't go well with happy meals."


I have no doubt whatsoever that once Nolan and Bale depart, which will be after the next movie if not after this one, Hollywood will destroy the franchise.
They'll go less serious and dark. They may make an effort to try and imitate these ones, but ultimately will make all the wrong moves for all the wrong reasons.
We'll see outlandish villains, out of this world bat gadgets and vehicles, and *shutter* Robin.
Last edited by Jeritron; 07-30-2008 at 07:13 PM.
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Old 07-30-2008, 07:16 PM   #802
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For real
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Old 07-30-2008, 08:08 PM   #803
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I wasn't thinking "save Two Face for another movie!!! it'll make SHITLOADS of cash and be AWESUM!!!"... rather, there was more of the Two Face story that could have been explored, and it's just a shame we didn't get to see it because it could have been a strong story for another day in its own right.

One thing I've learned though is that it's pointless arguing with fanboys because if you dare express an opinion slightly slanted away from "this film is 10/10, best film ever made in any genre ever, Nolan for Pope, Bale for President" then it will just be belittled and brushed aside, so I've said my piece. Not that it was right or wrong.
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Old 07-30-2008, 08:15 PM   #804
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I agree with Jeriton's views on Dent.
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Old 07-30-2008, 08:31 PM   #805
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Just want to say I agree with CAC. The Two Face character itself felt rushed at the end.

It's like saying Joker should be kept out of the next movie(s) because he was such a large part of this movie (Ledger hoopla aside). They clearly left it open-ended on his part and I feel they should have done the same with Two Face.

If they had a bit more development with Dent AS Two Face, I don't think I would have minded. I think I would have been satisfied with his role had he become Two Face around the mid-point of the movie. But that would have left out parts of Dent's development, which is why I feel Dent/Two-Face is a two movie character.

And remember, this is from someone who doesn't know much about the Batman mythos, just your average Batman movie-goer.
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Old 07-31-2008, 12:40 AM   #806
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeritron View Post
I felt the Scarecrow scene was brief and throw away from most stanpoints. The reason I liked it, not only because I thought it was a cool scene, but because it creates that feeling that they're picking up right where the last movie left off.
We get introduced to The Joker, who's going to be the threat in the film.
But then we see Gordon at the bat signal and then Scarecrow up to no good. Finally, we see Batman show up in all his glory in the same suit as the first, fighting crime the same way, as if we've really missed nothing of any importance.
I think the whole purpose of that sequence was to create the whole, this is only a few weeks or months later feel.
I agree. Its cool cuz they even explain the whole thing in the movie with Batman saying that the copycats are out again with guns, and then saying he didnt want to see scare crow out there again. Then the Joker said that a year frm then that the mob was everywhere and noone would cross them.
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Old 07-31-2008, 12:52 AM   #807
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Class Act Carl View Post

One thing I've learned though is that it's pointless arguing with fanboys because if you dare express an opinion slightly slanted away from "this film is 10/10, best film ever made in any genre ever, Nolan for Pope, Bale for President" then it will just be belittled and brushed aside, so I've said my piece. Not that it was right or wrong.
Ok shouldnt "fanboys" be the ones that are yelling for more two face?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xero Limit 126 View Post
Just want to say I agree with CAC. The Two Face character itself felt rushed at the end.

It's like saying Joker should be kept out of the next movie(s) because he was such a large part of this movie (Ledger hoopla aside). They clearly left it open-ended on his part and I feel they should have done the same with Two Face.

If they had a bit more development with Dent AS Two Face, I don't think I would have minded. I think I would have been satisfied with his role had he become Two Face around the mid-point of the movie. But that would have left out parts of Dent's development, which is why I feel Dent/Two-Face is a two movie character.

.
With the way Joker ended the movie, it was clear that he was supposed to be involved in future movies. Think about the story the Joker and Batman could have with the joker trying to corrupt Batman now that all of Gothom hates him. The dialogue that would come from that situation would be cool.

To accomplish the feel and moral of the story in terms of the movie Two-Face needed to die. When it comes down to it, the movie wasnt about two face, it was about Gotham and the hero it needs. If Two Face lived, Gotham would know it, and theyre hope woud be crushed.

Which makes me wonder why Batman would say he killed Dent and all the people Dent killed, because you would think that would hurt the peoples hopes or watever as well, I mean I guess it woud unite them against him and want a legal hero but still.
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Old 07-31-2008, 01:07 AM   #808
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I haven't posted in here since the movie came out, but I have to say that I LOVED it. Saw it 4x already. Anyway, I figure I might as well give an opinion into the whole "Was Two-Faced rushed?" debate.

I have to say that I didn't think it was rushed at all. I feel that by having Two-Face die (after his character did plenty of insane things and not saving him for #3), it really drives home the fact that the Joker won.

The Joker did everything in his power to destroy Gotham, and the only two guys that were hopes for the city (Batman and Dent) are now ruined at the end of the Dark Knight. By having Dent die and Batman be this wanted criminal for taking the wrap, it just shows that the absolute worse has happened to the city, because of how smart and evil the Joker is. The ending was perfect, because for once the villain won completely, and it made a lot of sense.
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Old 07-31-2008, 08:29 AM   #809
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Class Act Carl View Post
I wasn't thinking "save Two Face for another movie!!! it'll make SHITLOADS of cash and be AWESUM!!!"... rather, there was more of the Two Face story that could have been explored, and it's just a shame we didn't get to see it because it could have been a strong story for another day in its own right.

One thing I've learned though is that it's pointless arguing with fanboys because if you dare express an opinion slightly slanted away from "this film is 10/10, best film ever made in any genre ever, Nolan for Pope, Bale for President" then it will just be belittled and brushed aside, so I've said my piece. Not that it was right or wrong.

I'm a fanboy and my opinion is that it's the best film ever because I think you're dead wrong about an aspect of it?
I just disagree with you, and I'm not a blind fanboy. I see movies for what they are and judge them honestly equally.
For ginstance, I thougth Spiderman 3 sucked and I loved Spiderman 2. I thought X files 2 sucked and I love Xfiles. I thought Batman Begins was great, but that it had it's flaws.
I wasn't even a huge Batman fan before this. Loved the cartoon and the movies growing up and was always familiar with the stuff, but I wasn't into big until I saw this movie. I even had gripes with Batman Begins.

I see the flaws and have honest views on every movie I see whether it be Godfather or Jaws The Revenge.
Has nothing to do what I think of the source material prior. I would sweep over a flaw in my mind just because it's Batman.
I don't deal in absolutes and say, "I like this material or this movie so it's a 10, and I didn't like this so it's a 1". I'm pretty honest and fair.
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Old 07-31-2008, 08:51 AM   #810
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Who says Dent is dead.
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Old 07-31-2008, 10:29 AM   #811
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Looked an awful lot like a memorial service for him at the end. Plus he didn't look to be breathing.

Excellent film though, although I'm still not sure if I'd rate it more highly than Batman Begins - just had a different feel to it.
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Old 07-31-2008, 10:57 AM   #812
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Could have been a mock memorial service, have him locked up in Arkham Asylum. One massive cover-up.
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Old 07-31-2008, 01:05 PM   #813
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TBH my initial thought was that it was a mock memorial in order to cement the fact that Batman had killed Dent (not Two Face) whilst he was still "Gotham's White Knight". The idea being that Gotham still had someone to look up to - someone that "died a hero".
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Old 07-31-2008, 01:20 PM   #814
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If they do make a third movie, then I think that they probably will have two-face in it because of Heath Ledger. It was apparent that the Joker was to be a reoccuring role in the future of the films, and since there will be a lot of heat on them if they reast the role, they will most likely not use him, unless theres some cut footage from this movie that they can use in a next.
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Old 07-31-2008, 01:51 PM   #815
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Quote:
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I haven't posted in here since the movie came out, but I have to say that I LOVED it. Saw it 4x already. Anyway, I figure I might as well give an opinion into the whole "Was Two-Faced rushed?" debate.

I have to say that I didn't think it was rushed at all. I feel that by having Two-Face die (after his character did plenty of insane things and not saving him for #3), it really drives home the fact that the Joker won.

The Joker did everything in his power to destroy Gotham, and the only two guys that were hopes for the city (Batman and Dent) are now ruined at the end of the Dark Knight. By having Dent die and Batman be this wanted criminal for taking the wrap, it just shows that the absolute worse has happened to the city, because of how smart and evil the Joker is. The ending was perfect, because for once the villain won completely, and it made a lot of sense.
I have to disagree with your diagnosis of the movie's end.

The Joker did not win, because for him to win, Batman would have had to break his one rule, which he never did, as he saved Joker from falling to his death at the very end.

Now, it could be suggested that Joker's back-up plan of turning Harvey Dent into a murderer and monster made him the victor, but it is Batman's sacrifice and willingness to do whatever it takes that still makes Joker the loser.

Yes, things will be harder for Batman, as he will be hunted, hated, despised, and wanted dead for his "crimes." But that's fine. The Batman is a vigilante and the people hate him anyways. That's the point of being Batman; that's the center of his strength: the ability to do what needs to be done and let the people despise him.

Gotham won't lose hope; they'll gain resolve. It's like after 9/11, America didn't immediately lose hope at the sight of Terrorism. They grew stronger and bonded together to fight off the evil at their doors, murdering their people. In Gotham, crime, murder and violence are terrorism, and Batman has made himself a part of that.

As a comparison, how do you think Americans would react if they found out that the Bush administration was part of 9/11? THAT would cause hopelessness and despair, panic and chaos. That would be the same thing as finding out that their white knight, their hero Harvey Dent was a murderer.

I don't think the Joker expected for Batman to take the wrap, and thus, he did not win in this film.
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Old 07-31-2008, 04:57 PM   #816
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In addition to the above...

Joker also lost when neither of the boats (Civilians / Covicts) decided to press the button to blow the other up.

It was a show of solidarity / humanity - the opposite of which Joker was expecting.
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Old 07-31-2008, 05:06 PM   #817
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Agree with both Fox and XL. The fact that the movie sparks reaction and discussion of these themes is just another reason why the film is a masterpeice.
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Old 08-01-2008, 02:00 AM   #818
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Actually he killed Dent, so he did break his one rule.
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Old 08-01-2008, 02:14 AM   #819
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He also killed Ra's Al Ghul and like a bunch of ninja in the first movie. Using his whole "I won't kill you... but I don't have to save you" line.
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Old 08-01-2008, 03:08 AM   #820
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He was stopping Dent from killing gordon and saing his son. He wasnt trying to kill Dent. So although he was responsible for his death, he didnt kill him willingly.

In the first movie he was defending himself in the ninja guild and he saved his entor Ras. Then he simply let Ras die in a situation that was Ras' own doing so he has neer broken his rule in either film
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Old 08-01-2008, 07:55 AM   #821
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I'm not 100% convinced Dent is dead, you didn't actually see him 'dead' someone could of done something (i.e switched him)

Nolan has yet to offically show a main guy dying, Raas Al Gouhl (sp?) was in that train that exploded, but you never saw a body.

All I'm saying is, it's not totally impossible to think that he may still be alive
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Old 08-01-2008, 10:01 AM   #822
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...especially considering the source material is a comic book.
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Old 08-01-2008, 10:07 AM   #823
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Also, during the debate about Dent's turn into Two Face being too quick I knew there was a scene where his 'holier than thou' character drops a little.

Having re-watched the film (on a really dodgy DVD no less) I now know what scene I was thinking off.

It's just after the attempt on the Mayor's life, Dent takes one of Joker's men (later named as paranoid schziophrenic Shif Thomas) hostage in the ambulance. He screams and shouts at Thomas and "threatens" to kill him (leaving it to "fate") - showing that he is willing to go to more extreme lengths when his loved one is threatened.

Although Thomas' life was never in danger (due to the two headed coin) I don't think it's too far from a character pretending to toy with fate to a character that actually does it - especially after his loved one is killed.
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Old 08-01-2008, 02:01 PM   #824
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I call Thalia Al Ghul and Selina Kyle for Batman-Nolan 3. I have a feeling.
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Old 08-01-2008, 05:04 PM   #825
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Originally Posted by Kalyx triaD View Post
I call Thalia Al Ghul and Selina Kyle for Batman-Nolan 3. I have a feeling.
I think they will be pressured to include a more marketable, iconic villain in the film... Penguin or Riddler are the most obvious two, though how they'd fit into Nolan's world is the question. Same thing could have been said about the Joker a year ago too, however.
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Old 08-01-2008, 05:20 PM   #826
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Catwoman (Selina Kyle) is pretty iconic, and damn marketable as well, especially giving females their equivalent to Batman.
She's not really a villian per se, so she wouldn't be the antagonist. She'd more likely be a love interest/tweener.

I think Riddler and Catwoman is the most likely scenario.
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Old 08-01-2008, 06:01 PM   #827
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I don't think they'll do Catwoman. I know they dropped a hint in TDK, but the stench of Halle Berry's Catwoman is still lingering in the catbox, so I don't think any studio is going to want to touch that character with a ten-foot pole. Riddler or Penguin. Was thinking about Nolan's career up to this point and the actors he's worked with. Got me imagining Joe Pantoliano as the Riddler. And it was a thought I liked.
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Old 08-01-2008, 06:07 PM   #828
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Michael C. Hall and Daniel Day Lewis for the next movie. think about it
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Old 08-01-2008, 06:41 PM   #829
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Also, during the debate about Dent's turn into Two Face being too quick I knew there was a scene where his 'holier than thou' character drops a little.

Having re-watched the film (on a really dodgy DVD no less) I now know what scene I was thinking off.

It's just after the attempt on the Mayor's life, Dent takes one of Joker's men (later named as paranoid schziophrenic Shif Thomas) hostage in the ambulance. He screams and shouts at Thomas and "threatens" to kill him (leaving it to "fate") - showing that he is willing to go to more extreme lengths when his loved one is threatened.

Although Thomas' life was never in danger (due to the two headed coin) I don't think it's too far from a character pretending to toy with fate to a character that actually does it - especially after his loved one is killed.
That ^

Also, do people not realize that he obviously had the nickname two-face for a reason in the police precincts? Apparently he'd made a reputation for himself that the public didn't get to see, so he could have been a bit more willing to snap than people realize in the first place.
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Old 08-01-2008, 06:46 PM   #830
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I don't think they'll do Catwoman. I know they dropped a hint in TDK
They did?
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Old 08-01-2008, 06:56 PM   #831
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They did?
When Bruce asks if the new suit could stand up to a dog, he gets a response of "It could stand up to a cat" which I thought was kinda random and out of nowhere.
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Old 08-01-2008, 09:16 PM   #832
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I think it was just a bit of self depracation. "Can it stand up to a dog?" "What kind of dog? It could stand up to a cat!".

You might be reading too much into that.
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Old 08-02-2008, 12:20 AM   #833
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No, it was blatant.

FOX: You'll be lighter, faster, more agile.

(Bruce shoots the spikes off the arm plate.)

FOX: Perhaps you should read the instructions first?

BRUCE: Yeah.

FOX: Now there is a trade off. Separation of the plates makes you more susceptible to knives and gun fire.

BRUCE: Well, we wouldn't want to make things too easy now, would we? How will it hold up against dogs?

FOX: Are we talking rotweillers or chihuahuas?

(Bruce just smiles.)

FOX: Should do fine against cats.


And then it cuts to Bruce and Alfred planning the movement to China. Now, while it was definitely intentionally there as a joke geared towards Catwoman, whether or not its foreshadowing for the third movie is another thing entirely. It could be Nolan's way of saying "Catwoman is a joke, she will not be in my movies," or it could also be a bit of irony as in the third film the new Batsuit does not do fine against "cats."
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Old 08-02-2008, 07:53 AM   #834
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I wonder how Mr Freeze would fit in a Nolan version of Batman, though I just think about the Ice Truck killer from Dexter. Don't know enough about the Mr Freeze character, but I think it might be interesting to see how it would be pulled off.

Anyways, I have the urge to see the film again. I'd like to see it now without being influenced by the hype surrounding Ledgers performance.
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Old 08-02-2008, 12:56 PM   #835
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Just saw this last night finally, it was an excellent movie. Lots of action, kept you on the edge of your seat wondering what would happen next, and the morality behind the storyline where people would become savages if they had to choose to survive. The Joker with his interesting social experiments and of course Ledger's performance were amazing.
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Old 08-02-2008, 10:41 PM   #836
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There's some rumor linking Johnny Depp to Riddler. Whatever; Depp in the Batman-Nolan series is gold waiting to manifest. In this same circle of rumors is Angelina Jolie as Catwoman - which I'd totally disagree with. I'd go with Christina Ricci... for some reason.

And just an off-thought; Scarlette Johansson would've been a great Harley Quinn.
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Old 08-03-2008, 11:27 AM   #837
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scarlett would be a good catwoman too
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Old 08-03-2008, 02:18 PM   #838
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What about Charlize Theron . Johnny Depp in the next Batman as any character would be great.
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Old 08-03-2008, 02:52 PM   #839
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Jessica Alba for Catwoman.
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Old 08-03-2008, 02:54 PM   #840
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Michael Madsen for the Penguin.
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