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Old 01-26-2016, 04:03 PM   #1041
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My probelm with Roman is that his talent doesn't jump off the screen. Say what you want about Cena, but his charisma is undeniable. Roman always looks lost. He doesn't command attention like Rock, Punk, Cena, Edge, Jericho, Ambrose, Owens, etc. He's not a bad wrestler but that's really all he is to me: not a bad wrestler. Not necessarily a ringing endorsement.
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Old 01-28-2016, 05:03 AM   #1042
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Reigns doesn't really even seem to know who he is as a character.
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Old 01-28-2016, 07:53 AM   #1043
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It's like right before Reigns comes out the writers just tell him something along the lines of "OK Roman, go out there and be funny" and then the next time it's "OK Roman, today you're angry. Go punch some stuff."

Seriously. He has no character. He just has that days random emotion.
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Old 01-29-2016, 11:55 PM   #1044
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Why are we meant to cheer him? Like what makes him a good guy?
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Old 01-30-2016, 10:08 AM   #1045
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He taught me that if I don't like what my boss says, go punch his father.
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Old 01-30-2016, 11:02 AM   #1046
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Quote:
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Why are we meant to cheer him? Like what makes him a good guy?
what makes Ambrose a good guy, what make Balor a good guy, what makes Cesaro a good guy, what makes AJ a good guy etc
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Old 01-30-2016, 11:45 AM   #1047
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They fight bad guys.
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Old 01-30-2016, 12:16 PM   #1048
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Charisma? I know that is a quality that is hard to pin down, but guys like Ambrose have charisma, that intangable that makes people want to cheer for them.

A lot of people would put AJ on the same boat as Reigns, for example, as neither of the two have great mic skills, but AJ carries himself in a way that fits his character. People like him and Ambrose are comfortable in their characters and who they are (although some might argue that it took AJ a long time to find that).

All I know is, I don't have much of a knowledge about AJ Styles, but when he came out at the Rumble and did his sig pose, it just looked cool, and I wanted to cheer for him. He carried himself like AJ Styles.

Roman Reigns still carries himself like a Shield member. He has no individual qualities and he looks awkward and stiff. His outfit is still Shield, his music is still Shield and his finisher is one of the most overdone in all of wrestling. At times he is cocky, at times he is aggressive, at times he is too cool for it all. I can't get a read on his personality either.

He needs to find himself imo and be who Roman Reigns really is. That is his best shot at winning people over.
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Old 01-30-2016, 12:24 PM   #1049
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fignuts HD Edition View Post
They fight bad guys.
exactly

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maluco View Post
Charisma? I know that is a quality that is hard to pin down, but guys like Ambrose have charisma, that intangable that makes people want to cheer for them.

A lot of people would put AJ on the same boat as Reigns, for example, as neither of the two have great mic skills, but AJ carries himself in a way that fits his character. People like him and Ambrose are comfortable in their characters and who they are (although some might argue that it took AJ a long time to find that).

All I know is, I don't have much of a knowledge about AJ Styles, but when he came out at the Rumble and did his sig pose, it just looked cool, and I wanted to cheer for him. He carried himself like AJ Styles.

Roman Reigns still carries himself like a Shield member. He has no individual qualities and he looks awkward and stiff.

He needs to find himself imo and be who Roman Reigns really is. That is his best shot at winning people over.
but that is who the Roman Reigns character is, he's stoic, he's a badass, that's why people cheered for him in The Shield. The problems arise when they try and shoe-horn him into Cena V2, he doesn't have the experience to pull that off yet. If you don't think Reigns has charisma, "that intangible that makes people want to cheer for him", or that he has no individual qualities, you're out of your tree.
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Old 01-30-2016, 12:37 PM   #1050
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I honestly don't think he has natural charisma, and I am sure there are plenty of people who haven't seen that yet. He has a presence, yeah, but charisma? I am not so sure.

As for individual qualities, he has his size and his looks. He is a decent wrestler. He is a long way from having someone like Cena's personality and charisma. I don't think it's an absurd opinion to think that he is lacking star quality. He has had a sustained push for a long time now and has gotten meagre returns when you think about the length of time invested in him.

I am not saying he can't develop certain attributes, but he is a long way off and lacks experience, as you rightly say. But I also think the jury is out on if he is a star and don't think it's that radical to believe that at this stage.
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Old 01-30-2016, 12:54 PM   #1051
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It's just frustrating that they always talk about how you need to be the total package but then just always push jacked up guys that look good and can't talk.
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Old 01-30-2016, 01:08 PM   #1052
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Quote:
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but that is who the Roman Reigns character is, he's stoic, he's a badass, that's why people cheered for him in The Shield. The problems arise when they try and shoe-horn him into Cena V2, he doesn't have the experience to pull that off yet. If you don't think Reigns has charisma, "that intangible that makes people want to cheer for him", or that he has no individual qualities, you're out of your tree.

I guess Im out of my tree then. I see no charisma in Reigns. The onlh thing that gets him cheers is the story line they have laid out for him. People dont want to cheer the Authority so by default they cheer Roman. Feel like if Ambrose had won the WWEWHC tournament and had the same storyline it would be white hot right now. Romans moveset is another thing that gets him cheers although I hate his finisher and the Superman punch. They have given him exciting moveset and he still cant get to where they want him to. His best work will probably be as a heel and they need to turn him soon in my opinion.
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Old 01-30-2016, 02:57 PM   #1053
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I mean this with all honesty, and I'm not normally one of these types of guys, but you know what I think would have helped get Roman over at the Rumble? Blood.

The Rumble was a perfect example of when blood can add something to a match. Having Roman walk out on his own, refusing the stretcher was a horrible move. Imagine him being wheeled to the back on a stretcher after each member of LoN took turns beating a bloody Roman Reigns, and then Vince came over and paint-brushed him a few times for good measure. Then you have a bandaged Roman limp back down to the ring later on to finish the Rumble.

I know, I know, It's PG. And that's part of the problem of all of this. All I'm saying is if you really want people to have sympathy for the guy, that may have gone a long way instead of getting what we got.
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Old 01-30-2016, 03:39 PM   #1054
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maluco View Post
I honestly don't think he has natural charisma, and I am sure there are plenty of people who haven't seen that yet. He has a presence, yeah, but charisma? I am not so sure.

As for individual qualities, he has his size and his looks. He is a decent wrestler. He is a long way from having someone like Cena's personality and charisma. I don't think it's an absurd opinion to think that he is lacking star quality. He has had a sustained push for a long time now and has gotten meagre returns when you think about the length of time invested in him.

I am not saying he can't develop certain attributes, but he is a long way off and lacks experience, as you rightly say. But I also think the jury is out on if he is a star and don't think it's that radical to believe that at this stage.
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I guess Im out of my tree then. I see no charisma in Reigns. The onlh thing that gets him cheers is the story line they have laid out for him. People dont want to cheer the Authority so by default they cheer Roman. Feel like if Ambrose had won the WWEWHC tournament and had the same storyline it would be white hot right now. Romans moveset is another thing that gets him cheers although I hate his finisher and the Superman punch. They have given him exciting moveset and he still cant get to where they want him to. His best work will probably be as a heel and they need to turn him soon in my opinion.
I feel like both of you are confusing "charisma" with "cutting good promos" or "being a loud character". Presence is basically another way of saying charisma. Go and look at any interview Roman has done away from WWE TV, where it isn't scripted to fit the current WWE storyline that they're trying to get over, where he isn't being kind of shoe-horned into a role he doesn't really fit. Go and stand in an arena when he makes an entrance and listen to the general buzz amongst the audience. And what are these meagre returns? Because a lot of the smart fans don't like him? Even they (well, most of them, there will always be a few that think they know better no matter what is being presented to them) would jump on board if he was consistently booked to his strengths.

As for "he only gets cheers because of the story line", that's ridiculous. He gets cheers because he has a connection with a large part of the audience. If it was really that simple, there would never be any failed pushes, heel or babyface, in the history of pro wrestling. It's like a lot of people are under the impression that WWE just chose Reigns at random and thought "we're going to make him a top guy" and that was literally all there was behind the thought process. If they'd have pushed say Neville for example against the Authority/in Reigns' spot, you would probably hears crickets in the audience. As for "moveset gets him cheers", come on. Why do wrestlers do moves again? To gain a reaction. That's kind of the entire point of a professional wrestling match, pro wrestling at it's absolute most basic. Roman Reigns is far from the finished product but he's just booked inconsistently. It's a WWE problem and will be until they either make up their mind about how they want to present him or just let him (attempt) to do his own thing. Don't confuse that stuff for him "bringing nothing to the table".
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Old 01-30-2016, 04:31 PM   #1055
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Oh no I definitely feel like he could bring somthing to the table just not what they are wanting. He has the look obviously and yea he has some charisma, he showed it cutting the Macho Man memorial promo. I dont think he connects real well with the character they want him to portray. I liked him in the Shield and really didnt have a problem with Roman winning the Rumble last year. The result though was to much exposure for a guy that wasnt ready and it made me lose any intrest in him. His facial expressions at times bug the shit out of me as well.

When I think charisma I think about a superstar that can go out there and tae command of a audience. Some one that gains your total attention. I just dont think this character is charismatic, nothing has changed about him since Sheild and he doesnt show much personality. Ambrose and Rollins both got new personalities and some edge to their characters after Shield why didnt Roman. They try to make you feel sympathetic towards his character and thats not him. If he does have charisma it not in this gimmick.
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Old 01-30-2016, 04:36 PM   #1056
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you don't seem to grasp what charisma is
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Old 01-30-2016, 04:44 PM   #1057
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No, charisma is somthing that attracts you to a superstar. You can be charismatic in many different ways. What is charismatic about the Roman Reigns character other than he enters through the crowd? Whats your definition of charisma?
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Old 01-30-2016, 06:25 PM   #1058
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I feel like both of you are confusing "charisma" with "cutting good promos" or "being a loud character". Presence is basically another way of saying charisma. Go and look at any interview Roman has done away from WWE TV, where it isn't scripted to fit the current WWE storyline that they're trying to get over, where he isn't being kind of shoe-horned into a role he doesn't really fit. Go and stand in an arena when he makes an entrance and listen to the general buzz amongst the audience. And what are these meagre returns? Because a lot of the smart fans don't like him? Even they (well, most of them, there will always be a few that think they know better no matter what is being presented to them) would jump on board if he was consistently booked to his strengths ".

I get what you are saying. I have watched with casual fans though and people who only have a passing interest in the product nowadays, and I am just not as convinced as you seem to be.

Maybe you're right and better booking and more consistent logic would help him a ton. I think it almost definitely would. But even with that, there is a difference between becoming a star, and being THE star. Being THE star requires a tremendous amount of talent on behalf of the performer. Does he have that?

I also hear you on his character being more stoic and quiet, but I don't feel like I am confusing charisma and mic skills. Yes, he has a presence because of his size and his looks, but he looks uncomfortable at times, his natural charisma doesn't shine through for me and I don't see any sort of special atmosphere or feel like he is a star when he makes his entrance. It feels flat and it feels forced.

I am totally open to the idea that that is the booking though and that he is a diamond in the rough. I personally haven't seen that yet however.
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Old 01-30-2016, 08:37 PM   #1059
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Quote:
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what makes Ambrose a good guy, what make Balor a good guy, what makes Cesaro a good guy, what makes AJ a good guy etc
The point about them fighting bad guys is a good one -- and it's hard to find a good heel today -- but you could make a case for a lot of those guys having more depth than the Reigns character. More of a journey, more history and more fan respect.
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Old 01-30-2016, 08:39 PM   #1060
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https://rdamon1982.wordpress.com/201...e-2016-review/

My recap/review.
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Old 01-30-2016, 08:52 PM   #1061
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I agree with Maluco on the charisma discussion here. Charisma is a leadership quality that makes people want to go with you. Reigns doesn't have it. If he did, people wouldn't be rebuking.

CSL is right about Reigns being that stoic presence, but that's exactly the problem. They're trying to cast the brooding guy with the dark edge as Superman flying through the air to save women and children with a smile and a wink.

I jumped off the Cena bandwagon early and I fell off the Reigns one as soon as they tried pushing him to the front of the Shield group. It wasn't a natural transition for him, and Ambrose was the charisma of that group. Reigns worked well in that role, but he's not the top guy that they want him to be.

If they turned him heel, let him talk the way he wants to and be a champion with the world at his feet -- it'd fit the narrative of what's happening and actually allow Reigns to find himself as an individual. Maybe the charisma will be on show then. But right now, he's this guy with a body and hair that says movie one-liners.

I also suggest that the idea of what is charismatic is has changed in the public consciousness. If you look at fashion, entertainment and media, the world has changed sufficiently to the point where a guy like Kevin Nash couldn't make it today. That's not a jab at the Man's Greatness, but big guys that can't really do shit aren't seen as "cool" or even "tough" these days.

Luke Harper is a better candidate for a new age monster than Erick Rowan or Braun Strowman for this reason. Dean Ambrose or a babyface Seth Rollins have a better chance of grabbing people's imaginations than a Roman Reigns type in 2016. Just look at how The Usos are also floundering against the dorkish appeal of The New Day.

Genuine talent is becoming more charismatic than the ability to look like a god in today's age. Being loud and obnoxious isn't as cool as it was in the the late 90's either. Road Dogg would have to show something else to get Billy Gunn over in 2016.

That's just my hypothesis though. Feel free to beg to differ and tell me how Daniel Bryan got so over but Reigns is struggling.
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Old 01-30-2016, 08:57 PM   #1062
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I'd argue that Sami Zayn has more charisma than Roman Reigns. It might even be partially because he doesn't have the look of a Greek God. Throwing it out there.
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Old 01-30-2016, 10:30 PM   #1063
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Luke Harper is a better candidate for a new age monster than Erick Rowan or Braun Strowman for this reason.
I want to comment on this point alone, because you hit on something. Harper is the only follower of Wyatt who doesn't wear a mask of any sort. The reason is because you cover his face, you take away his expressions.

Rowan often looks angry in the ring. Strowman looks either stupid or lost. The masks is necessary for them. Harper looks insane.

Facial expressions are an underrated aspect of the sport/business, but an important one.

Harper understands this. Combine that with the fact that he is a large man, an underrated promo, and can work, and you have your New Age Monster. One only hopes Taker asks for Harper instead of Strowman. He's too old to be carrying some no talent hoss.
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Old 01-31-2016, 05:48 AM   #1064
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No, charisma is somthing that attracts you to a superstar. You can be charismatic in many different ways. What is charismatic about the Roman Reigns character other than he enters through the crowd? Whats your definition of charisma?
before the shield broke up, the crowd, smarks included, were popping hard for roman's character. his presence outshone the other two in his group. that is what gave the wwe a boner and tried to change things that was obviously working.
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Old 01-31-2016, 08:32 PM   #1065
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I don't really remember Reigns "outshining" Ambrose to be honest.
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Old 01-31-2016, 08:42 PM   #1066
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Yeah, dont think he outshined Ambrose or Rollins but was the beneficiary of alot of hot tagsand the center of the triple power bomb. Sheild really showed his strengths but since then every thing has showed his weaknesses.
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Old 02-01-2016, 09:52 AM   #1067
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Just wanted to point out after Wrestlemania, Reigns will most likely already be a 3 Time World Champ. Let that sink in
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Old 02-01-2016, 02:14 PM   #1068
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I don't really remember Reigns "outshining" Ambrose to be honest.
he was getting the biggest reactions
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Old 02-02-2016, 03:44 AM   #1069
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Maybe. I remember just thinking "Oh no. This is gonna suck."
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Old 02-03-2016, 08:03 AM   #1070
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I don't really remember Reigns "outshining" Ambrose to be honest.
They were popping hard for roman like right up until the sheld broke up
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Old 02-03-2016, 08:15 AM   #1071
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They were popping hard for roman like right up until the sheld broke up
They were popping for him as the "hot tag guy." The heavy artillery to put the exclamation point on things. I really thought he and Dean should have remained closer for a while after the Shield split, it could have weaned Reigns off of that dependancy.
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Old 02-03-2016, 08:23 AM   #1072
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They were popping for him as the "hot tag guy.".
yes i know
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Old 02-03-2016, 06:32 PM   #1073
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Weren't they popping hard for Ambrose too? The only guy I don't really remember having too much steam was Rollins, but we all knew he would do fine based on his ring work.
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Old 02-04-2016, 07:38 AM   #1074
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That's why Rollins got the heat of turning on the group.
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Old 02-05-2016, 04:30 AM   #1075
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Yeah, I called the Seth heel turn. I'm just saying that I don't remember Reigns being this obvious star. He only really worked as the "cleaner" and it felt awkward when he was pushed to the front.
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Old 02-05-2016, 01:09 PM   #1076
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If written and performed correctly, Dean Ambrose and Roman Reigns could showcase money as the main event at Mania. Roman hits on Renee, Renee revealed to be Dean's boo, Renee interviews the shit out of Roman and also is found by hotel staff to have interviewed the piss out of Roman behind doors. Insert Championships and all that crap, you have the main event of a Reality Era implemented WrestleMania
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Old 02-05-2016, 03:41 PM   #1077
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Yeah, I called the Seth heel turn. I'm just saying that I don't remember Reigns being this obvious star. He only really worked as the "cleaner" and it felt awkward when he was pushed to the front.
I think the people who thought it was obvious thought so on the "well look at him" principle. Big Samoan fellow capable of a lot of big man power stuff.
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Old 02-06-2016, 05:35 AM   #1078
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Reigns vs. Ambrose could have been huge, but they pissed it away at Survivor Series last year. They could heat it up with Reigns taking everything from Ambrose though.
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