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Old 07-06-2015, 02:06 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by Big Vic View Post
So Taker gets the win over the wrestler that has more momentum going for him than all of the active roster and then Taker retires. Not best for business.
What momentum would that be? You make it sound like Brock Lesnar is "flavour of the month" or "the In thing". Brock Lesnar always was a big deal, beating the Undertaker would never have changed that and losing to the Undertaker in a hypothetical rematch would do no harm either.

Also the only reason he has "momentum" is because WWE have been using him sparingly/part-time more to do with his terms and agreements. If he was week in week out then it may well be a different story.

If anyone has momentum it's Rollins and Ambrose.

Lesnar is seeming "bigger" than he was before because of his sporadic appearances and the air of unpredictably that's created.
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Old 07-06-2015, 02:36 PM   #82
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Surely using Taker, HHH, Brock, Rock, Sting, etc makes each of them less special? If Austin were to wrestle it'd be really special but having the same part-timers crawl out of the woodwork every Mania season makes them less special every year. Same as seeing the same guys every time they do a Raw Reunion/Old School Raw/anniversary show.
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Old 07-06-2015, 03:26 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by Jazzy Foot View Post
What momentum would that be? You make it sound like Brock Lesnar is "flavour of the month" or "the In thing". Brock Lesnar always was a big deal, beating the Undertaker would never have changed that and losing to the Undertaker in a hypothetical rematch would do no harm either.

Also the only reason he has "momentum" is because WWE have been using him sparingly/part-time more to do with his terms and agreements. If he was week in week out then it may well be a different story.

If anyone has momentum it's Rollins and Ambrose.

Lesnar is seeming "bigger" than he was before because of his sporadic appearances and the air of unpredictably that's created.
Brock Lesnar turned into an unstoppable badass since beating the streak, you don't have him lose to Taker who is retiring.

Ambrose has lost a lot of his momentum since MITB.
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Old 07-06-2015, 03:47 PM   #84
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Surely using Taker, HHH, Brock, Rock, Sting, etc makes each of them less special? If Austin were to wrestle it'd be really special but having the same part-timers crawl out of the woodwork every Mania season makes them less special every year. Same as seeing the same guys every time they do a Raw Reunion/Old School Raw/anniversary show.
I thought the whole point of Austin "retiring" was his injury hence we won't be seeing him wrestle again?

Those mentioned above are all "special" in terms of the legendary status they attained over their regular careers. Having them come back for the first or second match of the year does no harm/benefit to either.
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Old 07-06-2015, 03:55 PM   #85
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Brock Lesnar turned into an unstoppable badass since beating the streak, you don't have him lose to Taker who is retiring.

Ambrose has lost a lot of his momentum since MITB.
The first point in bold; I keep saying, Lesnar was never portrayed as anything less be it during his first stint or current WWE run. His whole character, look etc fits that persona and makes no difference if he lost a match.

The second point: who better to "stop" him as it were than the man he beat some two years before? For me Taker v Lesnar is more of a story, closing a chapter i.e. Taker wanted to end on a winning note and beat the man he hasn't beaten at mania and who inflicted his only defeat. It would be a perfect way to sign off. Again it does no harm to Lesnar just like having Lesnar lose his first match back post WM-29 to Cena did no harm to his run/character.


I just think if WM 32 will be Taker's last WM then rather than having a boring Taker v Sting with all of the potential hype/charm ebbed away over the years, just throw him into a feud with Lesnar, that's more exciting i.e. Taker going on about the pain of that defeat and how it tears him up inside and how he can't retire not having avenged that defeat.

I find it odd that Undertaker never "addressed" that loss on TV obviously he didn't resurface until Wyatt called him out. But simply accepting the loss and "moving on".....doesn't seem like "the Undertaker way".

Besides the rematch would still have an air of unpredictability: will he or won't he avenge that defeat?


Apart from Sting which would be pointless who else is left? IMO he should have dropped the streak to Cena or possibly the Rock or Sting. None of those are options I think, Cena unless he's in the title picture or involved with another star.

I just can't imagine allowing the Undertaker character to retire without addressing that loss one way or another and it wouldn't be unrealistic nor far-fetched to expect the two to square off again given Taker went at it with Triple H, HBK and Kane more than once at WM.


Also going back to the "unstoppable" bit, Lesnar has pretty much been "unstoppable" since he returned in 2012 (he returned in 2012 right?) so losing to the Undertaker in 2016......quite a long stretch of being unstoppable even if appearances have been sporadic.

Undertaker v Sting should remain a pipe dream or better yet host it at another PPV and make that a huge draw e.g. Summer Slam, Survivor Series, maybe revive an old PPV like Starrcade etc?
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Old 07-06-2015, 04:55 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzy Foot View Post
The first point in bold; I keep saying, Lesnar was never portrayed as anything less be it during his first stint or current WWE run. His whole character, look etc fits that persona and makes no difference if he lost a match.

The second point: who better to "stop" him as it were than the man he beat some two years before? For me Taker v Lesnar is more of a story, closing a chapter i.e. Taker wanted to end on a winning note and beat the man he hasn't beaten at mania and who inflicted his only defeat. It would be a perfect way to sign off. Again it does no harm to Lesnar just like having Lesnar lose his first match back post WM-29 to Cena did no harm to his run/character.
Lesnar portrayed a chicken shit heel for parts of 2003, like when he needed the FBI to help him to beat Taker. And when he returned in 2012 He lost to Cena and then lost a rematch to HHH. He didn't become the character he is today until he beat Undertaker at Mania.
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Old 07-06-2015, 05:14 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by Big Vic View Post
Lesnar portrayed a chicken shit heel for parts of 2003, like when he needed the FBI to help him to beat Taker. And when he returned in 2012 He lost to Cena and then lost a rematch to HHH. He didn't become the character he is today until he beat Undertaker at Mania.
And until then he was what, seen as some weak guy?
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Old 07-06-2015, 07:28 PM   #88
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Lesnar was no where near the draw nor remotely as interesting before they activated Skynet and put Operation:Terminator gimmick into place. It started with his squashing of the Big Show and has continued since.
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Old 07-06-2015, 07:51 PM   #89
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And it needs to continue because without it the only thing he has going for him is Heyman and I think if that happened the ratings with Heyman and Lesnar or Heyman without Lesnar would be about the same.
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Old 07-06-2015, 08:08 PM   #90
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Gosh it seems nobody thinks much of Brock Lesnar then?
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Old 07-06-2015, 08:30 PM   #91
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You need to understand that it's not about Lesnar. It's about how his character is presented and how the show is built to showcase him. Outside of the first return feud with Cena, where he fucking lost, he was a featured attraction with lame storylines. That's no longer the case. He's the fucking man, the crowds are absolute shit hot for him, and he's presented as a huge fucking deal.
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Old 07-06-2015, 08:32 PM   #92
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You need to understand that it's not about Lesnar. It's about how his character is presented and how the show is built to showcase him. Outside of the first return feud with Cena, where he fucking lost, he was a featured attraction with lame storylines. That's no longer the case. He's the fucking man, the crowds are absolute shit hot for him, and he's presented as a huge fucking deal.
And what I keep asking is how that would be any different if he did supposedly lose to the Undertaker? Surely that would make a "rematch" all the more exciting as we'd genuinely believe there's a possibility Taker would lose a second time.

And if you think losing to Taker would "harm" Lesnar's rep/character then really the guy isn't that popular at all.

Wrestlers always have to win and lose and Lesnar is no exception. 2012-2016 even sporadic appearances is still a long streak with few losses: Cena, Triple H and you could call WM 31 a "loss" of sorts but I don't. Having Taker inflict that defeat would be interesting from a storyline perspective.
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Old 07-06-2015, 08:45 PM   #93
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Taker shouldn't be pinning anyone at this point unless its a jobber, much less Lesnar.
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Old 07-06-2015, 08:51 PM   #94
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Taker shouldn't be pinning anyone at this point unless its a jobber, much less Lesnar.
Who would that jobber be then?
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Old 07-06-2015, 08:53 PM   #95
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I dunno, Otunga?
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Old 07-06-2015, 08:53 PM   #96
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Sting?
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Old 07-06-2015, 10:19 PM   #97
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No to both. The first was a joke obviously and Sting wouldn't job at a second consecutive wrestle mania.....heck I predict he won't wrestle again at WM.

Either Taker comes back gets the win against Lesnar and retires or indeed another loss, or he just quietly says good bye.
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Old 07-06-2015, 10:20 PM   #98
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I agree he should just quietly say goodbye.
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Old 07-06-2015, 10:32 PM   #99
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I wouldn't mind Taker coming back to take a loss and put someone over before walking away. He definitely doesn't need to be going over Lesnar though. Would be horribly counter-productive.
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Old 07-06-2015, 10:36 PM   #100
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I wouldn't mind Taker coming back to take a loss and put someone over before walking away. He definitely doesn't need to be going over Lesnar though. Would be horribly counter-productive.
Maybe I'm the only one who thinks Taker getting revenge on Lesnar was a good idea?

I thought it was a bad idea having him beat Wyatt though as that guy seems to have stayed static.
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Old 07-06-2015, 10:57 PM   #101
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I agree he should just quietly say goodbye.
Well I've never really dug the whole "So and so says good bye on Raw". Just retire already.

It only became a big deal when Flair retired and then HBK.
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Old 07-06-2015, 10:58 PM   #102
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Lesnar needs to continue to look dominant in order to be the attraction he is. Taker getting revenge would be great to make Taker look good at Brock's expense. What good does that do Taker when he leaves for good afterward? Meanwhile it would make Brock look more "human". That needs to not happen.
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Old 07-07-2015, 01:31 AM   #103
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Lesnar needs to continue to look dominant in order to be the attraction he is. Taker getting revenge would be great to make Taker look good at Brock's expense. What good does that do Taker when he leaves for good afterward? Meanwhile it would make Brock look more "human". That needs to not happen.

I honestly don't get this whole "If Lesnar loses he looks weak" thing everyone here sees to be raving about. Lesnar as a man looks and acts the part of a beast/thug/brute as does Ryback, as did Batista and Goldberg etc Losing a match especially to one of the all time legends doesn't change that certainly not in the eyes of hardened wrestling fans and if it does, then really it shows they know nothing about character portrayal or that said individual was never really a big deal in the first place.

It appears I am the only one who appears to be giving Lesnar any credit for his work prior to the streak. Even losing to Nash albeit under dubious circumstances, Goldberg never appeared any less of a dominant character and if anything given most of his losses came dirty, his persona was preserved. You might argue Batista's character was ruined by having him submit to Daniel Bryan but that was more reflective of the fact that Batista's last run was just scripted terribly from start to finish.

Losing a match especially to the Undertaker would certainly do no harm whatsoever to Lesnar. If we are talking about him as a dominant figure then you need someone who is on his level physically etc and apart from the Undertaker we're rather limited e.g. Big Show, Kane, Mark Henry, Ryback. That's not say Cena or Reigns or Rollins can't lift him and they have done. I meant in terms of someone comparable in size etc. That's why Nash was the ideal option to end Goldberg's streak as he had already beaten the other viable faces such as DDP and Sting and beaten Giant and Nash was the only person who had the physical prowess to make the win look convincing. Nobody would have bought say Billy Kidman or Psychosis beating Goldberg.


Also from a storyline perspective it makes sense. Say Undertaker returns around February time not to announce a match but to address the WWE Universe, talks about his career and achievements and the ending of the streak and how it still eats him up inside. Maybe Lesnar confronts him with Heyman in tow and they goad him etc. Taker then challenges him to one last match at WM, Lesnar initially laughs it off as it would be same old story but then accepts it. We'd all go into it wondering if Taker will win or lose. I mean I'm sure there were many out there who thought Wyatt might get given the win at WM 31.

For those like my still crying over the streak ending, it serves some solace in that at least Undertaker can say he's beaten all of his Wrestle Mania opponents and thus has that distinction although haven't Goldberg and Mayweather beaten all their WM opponents too?

Let's be honest whilst Undertaker is and always will be a legend, his aura has been tarnished with the streak being broken. As I said at length previously, there is now nothing that makes him stand out or above the likes of Hogan, Flair, Savage, Rock, Austin, HBK, HHH, Foley and even Cena, Punk or heck even Sting. He is just another ring legend who went on unbeaten at WM for some time until they decided to let Lesnar take the streak. That to me is not befitting of someone as legendary as the Undertaker and for the years of service he has given to the WWE and wrestling, he deserves at least one distinction we can all say that will never be matched or beaten for at least some time and that's having him beat Lesnar in his final match and thus he hangs up his boots having beaten all his WM opponents.

A match with Sting serves absolutely no purpose for either man with both being past their prime and with it most likely being their final match, would want a WM win. Personally I would like to see them fight at another PPV but can either man muster the strength to give us one more match?

Furthermore what is the deal with Sting any way? I would not be surprised if Sting never returned to the ring again (in a match) or indeed, if neither man did.


So to conclude I feel Taker should fight Lesnar at WM 32 and if not then he should retire as a match against a jobber serves little purpose and it would be silly to see him get a win over say Cena or even someone like Ambrose or Rollins.


Ideal candidates for the streak for me would have been Sting, Cena, Rock in that order.
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Old 07-07-2015, 01:33 AM   #104
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On a side note Hogan seems to be constantly ranting and raving about possibly having one more match at WM 32.

Surely this is totally unrealistic? If it did happen it would either be some weird-ass match against McMahon or J & J Security or Michael Cole, or a slow tag team match or something involving celebrities?
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Old 07-07-2015, 01:59 AM   #105
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How can you not comprehend that had Lesnar not essentially destroyed the Undertaker and take what was his most impressive accomplishment and bury it there would absolutely no steam behind him going up against Cena?

If Lesnar loses to Taker,he has no momentum. He goes against Cena following a losing effort to an old man. It's not the same. The hype Heyman was able to build off of pinning Taker and the heat that came from it is non existent if Lesnar loses. There's nothing there to build up steam.

Feel like you're arguing for the sake of arguing. Taker doesn't need a revenge win against a guy who is clearly in a different league. It'd be a absolute waste. Taker is better off calling it a day than beating Lesnar in a meaningless match that'd have zero heat.
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Old 07-07-2015, 02:07 AM   #106
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Lesnar would still have credibility. No one's arguing that losing to Taker would suddenly make him unable to draw at all. Your options are: Have Lesnar look unstoppable and have every match he competes in have the aura of "Can _____ stop the unstoppable monster?" or... you have him lose to an old man way past his prime and have anyone who beats him or even puts up a fight just look that much less impressive for doing so.

Now honestly... which is the best option?
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Old 07-07-2015, 02:11 AM   #107
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How can you not comprehend that had Lesnar not essentially destroyed the Undertaker and take what was his most impressive accomplishment and bury it there would absolutely no steam behind him going up against Cena?

If Lesnar loses to Taker,he has no momentum. He goes against Cena following a losing effort to an old man. It's not the same. The hype Heyman was able to build off of pinning Taker and the heat that came from it is non existent if Lesnar loses. There's nothing there to build up steam.

Feel like you're arguing for the sake of arguing. Taker doesn't need a revenge win against a guy who is clearly in a different league. It'd be a absolute waste. Taker is better off calling it a day than beating Lesnar in a meaningless match that'd have zero heat.
Then really it shows how little regard most had and still have for Lesnar. It's almost as if you're suggesting he should now continue what remains of his wrestling career going unbeaten or at least unpinned which is totally unrealistic and unlikely to happen.

Undertaker isn't just an "old man", this is the Undertaker, the phenom, the deadman, the legend, one of the all time greats and imposing both physically and psychologically. It would fit "the character" to have a storyline where he wanted to avenge his solitary defeat etc hence why a rematch with Lesnar isn't a totally ridiculous option. I don't see Lesnar being involved in the title match at WM 32 and Taker will no doubt be on the card.


If losing to an old man is such a bad thing then why on Earth did they have Wyatt job to Taker? Of all the people they could have built up off the back of the streak, Wyatt fit the bill.


Why can't people seem to understand my point: I don't think Lesnar losing to Taker or even without the streak ending, Lesnar would have still been a big deal. He's not some runty little weed like Daniel Bryan who needs to be pushed or thrown into as many main events as possible to win favour from the crowds. Lesnar will always be viewed as a Beast and if his current run of wins/unpinned is to come to an end why not have the man whose streak he ended be the one to inflict that defeat? They could have a great match and everyone goes home happy.

Lesnar most likely won't be in the title picture and could well get pinned at the next PPV, that seems unlikely but I suspect Rollins will still hold the belt by then.


Sheamus will have failed in his cash-in attempt.
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Old 07-07-2015, 02:18 AM   #108
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Lesnar would still have credibility. No one's arguing that losing to Taker would suddenly make him unable to draw at all. Your options are: Have Lesnar look unstoppable and have every match he competes in have the aura of "Can _____ stop the unstoppable monster?" or... you have him lose to an old man way past his prime and have anyone who beats him or even puts up a fight just look that much less impressive for doing so.

Now honestly... which is the best option?
That is exactly why having Undertaker get the win is the right thing to do. As I just said previously I don't picture Lesnar being in the WWE title frame as I believer Rollins and Ambrose and possibly Reigns too will battle on for this and personally I'd like to see a Rollins v Ambrose main event.....



Lesnar is unstoppable he brags and brags and brags then out comes Undertaker, Heyman and Lesnar laugh but decide to give him a match to beat on him some more. We all tune in being edge of our seats as we genuinely don't know which way this will go but we hope both would put on a good match.

That's why I say Taker should get the win, he's the "least expected". Nobody wants to see Cena beat this guy, Triple H doesn't really figure, Orton has other feuds, Sheamus nope. Daniel Bryan got injured and even if he was fit to wrestle would be too much of a liability, I don't think Jericho would want the match, Kevin Owens might be a possibility...... Rollins, Reigns, Ambrose all involved in other feuds, Wyatt v Lesnar wouldn't work.....who's left? Unless the Rock came back to take on Lesnar.
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Old 07-07-2015, 04:50 AM   #109
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Back on topic of top stars of today/the past etc. Having just watched Cesaro/Cena from Raw, imagine that exact match at Wrestlemania! 70,000 fans would be going ape-shit over that. On the off-chance that casual/non-fans are seeing it, the crowds reaction to the match would further enhance the experience, and would help represent Cesaro as a "top guy" that casual fans could get into. Wrestlemania is where "the whole world is watching" and that would make a new big star for the WWE, without the possibility of said big name being absent the rest of the year.
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Old 07-07-2015, 09:45 AM   #110
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I'm only for Taker beating Lesnar if its a titty honking match.

Lets stop feeding the troll guys.
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Old 07-07-2015, 10:14 AM   #111
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Lesnar would not even be able to suplex Taker because Taker would die. He would not be able to look like his dominate self because of the crippled body of Taker. Who the hell wants to see a match with Brock not bringing SUPLEX CITY?
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Old 07-07-2015, 10:15 AM   #112
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Is Jazzy a troll? Just figured he was a idiot.
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Old 07-07-2015, 10:22 AM   #113
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A Troll for not sharing your stupid views on Lesnar?
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Old 07-07-2015, 11:50 AM   #114
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Quote:
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Is Jazzy a troll? Just figured he was a idiot.
You tell me:

Which Diva's titties would you love to honk?
Divas you want to see get undressed?
Do we talk tits here?
If a Diva forced you to smell her armpits, which Diva would it be (current roster only).
Masturbation policy at PPVs
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Old 07-07-2015, 11:58 AM   #115
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I know you'd prefer we discussed penises instead of tits but calling me a troll, that's unfair.
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Old 07-07-2015, 12:20 PM   #116
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I try to be serious but if it's troll Jazzy you won't then all I have to say to that is tits!
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Old 07-07-2015, 03:23 PM   #117
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why not have taker face superfly at mania 32? I mean if we want to tie a bow on the whole career thing?
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Old 07-07-2015, 03:39 PM   #118
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Put Taker in a gimmick battle Royal with HHH, Sting, and Hogan... etc
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Old 07-07-2015, 08:13 PM   #119
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Honestly, I may be in the minority here but if they can get HBK back for one more match, I wouldn't mind seeing Taker-HBK 3. Taker decides he's gonna retire after WrestleMania and HBK comes out and says if he's going out, he wants it to be against him. I'm convinced with months to prepare, HBK could pull another great match out of him. Have HBK win and the two of them shake hands after and walk off having capped off Taker's career with an epic match against his greatest WrestleMania opponent in both men's home state.
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Old 07-07-2015, 10:53 PM   #120
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I'd be cool with that. And I'm really pining for a gimmick battle royal from newer old guys. Ken Shamrock, Steve Blackman, the Dudleys, X Pac, NAO, etc. It'd be a fucking blast of a piss break.
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