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Old 06-02-2015, 04:55 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smelly Meatball View Post
My biggest issue has been more about his stale booking and whenever his promos end up on the preachy or rambling type. Stale booking in the sense that the WWE keeps recycling the same main storyline or reasons and his preachy/rambling promos tend to make little sense or fit better if he was a bad guy.

He doesn't need to suddenly lose or flip flop a lot in momentum like almost the whole roster but he does need a lot more change after all these years with the same stale character.

To his credit, he has been doing some amazing stuff with the Open Challenge and usually is at his best whenever he's motivated either because of his opponent or wants to prove something.
Exactly this. He's a victim of the same thing everyone else on the roster is a victim of. He just gets more flack because he's been the top guy during an era of lazy booking. When they do give him something entertaining to work with though, he fucking knocks it out of the park. No one deserves his spot more.
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Old 06-02-2015, 07:21 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
While Austin was on top, he definitely did not lose singles matches with more regularity than Cena has over the past 10 years. It's not even close.
But overall though, Cena has a much better W-L record. Granted, he's probably nowhere near done yet, but as of this post, Cena has a .754 win percentage, winning 794 of his (so far) 1,053 matches. Austin, on the other hand, has a .571 (rounded) win percentage in 434 matches. The records speak for themselves.

Source: http://www.profightdb.com/winlossrec...-cena-350.html

http://www.profightdb.com/winlossrec...ustin-205.html
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Old 06-02-2015, 07:57 PM   #43
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I agree Cena is amazing when given the proper chance. Would love to see what he can do as a heel again before he's past his prime.
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Old 06-02-2015, 08:09 PM   #44
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Sorry Crimson, that will never happen.
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Old 06-02-2015, 08:22 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAMN iNATOR View Post
But overall though, Cena has a much better W-L record. Granted, he's probably nowhere near done yet, but as of this post, Cena has a .754 win percentage, winning 794 of his (so far) 1,053 matches. Austin, on the other hand, has a .571 (rounded) win percentage in 434 matches. The records speak for themselves.

Source: http://www.profightdb.com/winlossrec...-cena-350.html

http://www.profightdb.com/winlossrec...ustin-205.html
I said when they were on top. Yes, rapper Cena and Prototype may have won more than The Ringmaster and "Stunning" Steve. The point is, as the face of the company, Cena has lost more than any other face of the company... maybe in the history of wrestling. Austin was "overcoming the odds" WAY more. I don't think he was pinned, clean or not, more than 4 or 5 times during his time on top. Cena has lost more than that in a given year just on PPV recently.
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Old 06-02-2015, 09:29 PM   #46
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The winning and losing doesn't matter as much as the booking burying the guys he has programs with. So I agree with some of what you're saying fan, but you're getting stuck on the meaningless win/loss stuff, trying to prove a point.
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Old 06-02-2015, 10:30 PM   #47
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I only said it in response to what Nowhere Man said.
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Old 06-02-2015, 11:14 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
I said when they were on top. Yes, rapper Cena and Prototype may have won more than The Ringmaster and "Stunning" Steve. The point is, as the face of the company, Cena has lost more than any other face of the company... maybe in the history of wrestling. Austin was "overcoming the odds" WAY more. I don't think he was pinned, clean or not, more than 4 or 5 times during his time on top. Cena has lost more than that in a given year just on PPV recently.
Yeah, but Austin's "time on top" was, what, three years at most? By the end of 1999, Rock had pretty solidly eclipsed him. Cena's been the top guy for well over a decade. I may have been wrong about Austin's W/L record during his time as the top face, but if he was protected and rarely lost, it was because they were striking while the proverbial iron was still hot. At this point, the iron on Cena hasn't just cooled down, it's rusted over.
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Old 06-02-2015, 11:38 PM   #49
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But Austin had someone coming behind him. Cena has himself and that is it. 100% not his fault. The WWE should not have fucked up Randy Orton like they did.
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Old 06-03-2015, 02:04 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruien View Post
But Austin had someone coming behind him. Cena has himself and that is it. 100% not his fault. The WWE should not have fucked up Randy Orton/Bray Wyatt/Jack Swagger/John Morrison/CM Punk/Ryback/Big E/Dolph Ziggler/Rusev/Alberto Del Rio like they did.
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Old 06-03-2015, 04:32 AM   #51
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Honestly wonder if Cena going the tweener route and catering to his child fans and riling up the adults who try to boo him out of every building, might work.

They'd still be able to market and sell his merch to a massively obsessed and loyal fan base, AND he'd have the entire crowd controlled like puppets.
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Old 06-03-2015, 11:04 AM   #52
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I dream of a John Cena NEVER GIVE UP type character mixed with the insincerity of BO DALLAS.

Let him cheat to win then spout off about Hustle Loyalty and Respect.
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Old 06-03-2015, 11:04 AM   #53
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I just dont know when it happened. You cant even discuss things yout dont like about John Cena anymore without being treated like a Neckbeard.

WWE has you all trained.
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Old 06-03-2015, 05:59 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruien View Post
But Austin had someone coming behind him.
Phrasing.


Anyway, yeah, WWE hasn't bothered to put stock in anyone beyond Cena, but you can't honestly believe that Cena doesn't have a massive amount of creative control. If he wasn't cool with utterly trashing guys like Del Rio and Bray Wyatt and everyone else who he's rolled over during his never-ending reign on top, he could have very easily done something about it. Being booked as indestructible at everyone else's expense may not have been Cena's idea, but he's definitely complicit in it.
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Old 06-03-2015, 06:16 PM   #55
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Again, he's jobbed a ton. You really think he should say "Listen, thanks for having me win like... barely half of my major matches as the face of the company but I think we could go less! That'll really make things better!"

Cena not jobbing enough isn't the problem. And even if it was, his job isn't to fix how shitty creative is by sacrificing himself to help push another guy they can fail with.
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Old 06-03-2015, 06:47 PM   #56
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John Cena should never job to Del Rio. He was never going to be the face of the company. Bray Wyatt's feud was fine. The only part the was terrible was Cena going over him after he got rocked by Brock. That isn't something I am blaming Cena for.
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Old 06-03-2015, 08:50 PM   #57
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If there was proper continuity in the booking, it wouldn't matter if guys won or lost matches, as long as the focus was still there.
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Old 06-03-2015, 08:50 PM   #58
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Instead of everything that happened a month before being treated as an afterthought.
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Old 06-03-2015, 09:07 PM   #59
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Quote:
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Again, he's jobbed a ton. You really think he should say "Listen, thanks for having me win like... barely half of my major matches as the face of the company but I think we could go less! That'll really make things better!"

Cena not jobbing enough isn't the problem. And even if it was, his job isn't to fix how shitty creative is by sacrificing himself to help push another guy they can fail with.
"Barely half" lol
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Old 06-03-2015, 09:08 PM   #60
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Yes. Sorry I let facts get in the way of your need to believe LOLCENAWINS.
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Old 06-03-2015, 09:09 PM   #61
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Really loved how Cena pointed out that kid fighting cancer so cool, but it sort of killed the promo. What is Kevin Owens going to do talk after that? He can't do anything. He can't be seen as pro-cancer.

That is one of the biggest reasons it's not best for the story for Cena to point out these things or be the face of Breast cancer. It's great for the cause and is really awesome but it also limits what can be done in promos when it goes down. They could have had a good give and take on Raw but he stopped it cold.

Its better if these things are done behind the scenes or not as part of a hot angle.
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Old 06-03-2015, 09:33 PM   #62
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KO should have started a "Lets Go Cancer! Lets Go!" *clap clap clap*
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Old 06-03-2015, 11:20 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlickyTrickyDamon View Post
Really loved how Cena pointed out that kid fighting cancer so cool, but it sort of killed the promo. What is Kevin Owens going to do talk after that? He can't do anything. He can't be seen as pro-cancer.

That is one of the biggest reasons it's not best for the story for Cena to point out these things or be the face of Breast cancer. It's great for the cause and is really awesome but it also limits what can be done in promos when it goes down. They could have had a good give and take on Raw but he stopped it cold.

Its better if these things are done behind the scenes or not as part of a hot angle.
KO could have been like, "She is beating cancer like I keep beating your butt" and it would have been fine.
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Old 06-03-2015, 11:30 PM   #64
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butt lol
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Old 06-04-2015, 03:14 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAMN iNATOR View Post
Honestly wonder if Cena going the tweener route and catering to his child fans and riling up the adults who try to boo him out of every building, might work.

They'd still be able to market and sell his merch to a massively obsessed and loyal fan base, AND he'd have the entire crowd controlled like puppets.
Isn't that the exact position they're in right now?
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Old 06-04-2015, 03:23 AM   #66
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The trouble with Cena (the character) isn't that he doesn't lose, because he does. It's what happens afterwards.

Bryan best Cena, and it was a massive victory for him. They didn't go back to the well. That victory is a stand-out moment for DB because they didn't have rematch after rematch after rematch. Cena never got his "win back".

If Owens beat Cena at EC, then turned down the challenge of a rematch (the same way he turned down the U.S. Open Challenge) because he had nothing to prove, his victory would mean more. He could brag about it, he'd get some heat for dodging the rematch, and more because he's "right". The loss could eat at Cena. We could build to a rematch if needs be somewhere down the line.

Instead, 2 weeks of build and they're rushing another match. If Owens wins he proves it wasn't a fluke, he is the real deal, and they could still do what I just suggested. However, and this is where the heat on Cena (the character) comes from; that likely won't happen.

We hope Cena won't win, tying the series and leading to a "rubber match" where Cena wins in the end, but we've seen it all before.

Yes Cena loses, but the loss doesn't mean anything when he beats you 3 times afterwards - and that's what we expect to happen.
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Old 06-04-2015, 05:09 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XL View Post
Isn't that the exact position they're in right now?
Except he's portrayed as a mega-face right now. I'm saying have him shit on his haters in an über-heel way and still play the big hero to the kids and women that enjoy him.
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Old 06-04-2015, 05:16 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XL View Post
The trouble with Cena (the character) isn't that he doesn't lose, because he does. It's what happens afterwards.

Bryan best Cena, and it was a massive victory for him. They didn't go back to the well. That victory is a stand-out moment for DB because they didn't have rematch after rematch after rematch. Cena never got his "win back".

If Owens beat Cena at EC, then turned down the challenge of a rematch (the same way he turned down the U.S. Open Challenge) because he had nothing to prove, his victory would mean more. He could brag about it, he'd get some heat for dodging the rematch, and more because he's "right". The loss could eat at Cena. We could build to a rematch if needs be somewhere down the line.

Instead, 2 weeks of build and they're rushing another match. If Owens wins he proves it wasn't a fluke, he is the real deal, and they could still do what I just suggested. However, and this is where the heat on Cena (the character) comes from; that likely won't happen.

We hope Cena won't win, tying the series and leading to a "rubber match" where Cena wins in the end, but we've seen it all before.

Yes Cena loses, but the loss doesn't mean anything when he beats you 3 times afterwards - and that's what we expect to happen.
Would love to see it go 1-1 and then afterwards have Owens keep playing mind games with Cena for a while, wait until, say the end of July and have him say he wanted to defeat Cena in a MEMORABLE way...at SummerSlam. They fight at SummerSlsm and Owens wins clean, this time with the US title on the line, with Owens having recently lost the NXT belt to whoever at the next big "TakeOver event", clearing the way to call him up to WWE full-time.
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Old 06-07-2015, 06:39 PM   #69
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I'd put Owens over at Money in the Bank when he powerbombs Cena into oblivion. Basically the Owens/Zayn Rival ending. Powerbomb after powerbomb until the kiddies cry. The referee stops the match and awards the victory to Kevin Owens. Not only did he beat Cena again, but he did it in more dominant fashion.

Owens cuts a promo on RAW where he says he just did what he said he would. He talks about Cena's slogans and mocks "NEVER GIVE UP!" by pointing out that Cena's body basically did. Owens turns his attention to his match against Finn Balor in Japan for the NXT Title. Last time Finn Balor disrespected him by not bringing The Demon along. If Balor shows up without the Demon this time, the same thing will happen to him that happened to Sami Zayn. That happened to Alex Riley. That happened to John Cena. He wants to meet the Demon in Japan, and he's going to be the first to defeat the Demon.

Anyway, Balor wins the NXT Title at the Japan show cleanly. It'd be an epic way to switch it over, and Finn Balor gets to beat the guy who beat Cena. Hideo Itami comes out and applauds his friend and there's a nice moment for Japanese fans of those men.

Owens is pissed on RAW and says that he'll have a message for Finn Balor on NXT this week, but in the meantime he thinks it is a joke that John Cena is lying at home with the US Title, whilst Owens is the one who put him on the shelf and has to lose his. Owens says he makes the challenges now and Cena can come and hand him the US Title next week or else.

Cena does show up and says he got beaten by Owens worse than even Brock Lesnar beat him up. He says that Owens is the man, and he really did beat him twice. Cena goes to hand Owens the belt. When Owens goes to grab it, Cena pulls him into an Attitude Adjustment however. "I'm not handing this to anybody!"

Owens has meanwhile told Finn Balor that he won't be cashing in his rematch for the NXT Championship. He's done with NXT. He came in, he conquered. All the best, champ. His sole goal is to become United States Champion. And after he hits a pop-up powerbomb at Battleground, he does so.
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Old 06-07-2015, 06:47 PM   #70
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Don't think anyone should destroy Cena so early into their career. They need to grow. Not automatically be better than the current GOAT.
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Old 06-07-2015, 09:17 PM   #71
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Yeah, no way should Owens dominate Cena/beat him three times in a row like that. Especially if he loses cleanly himself during that time.
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Old 06-07-2015, 09:32 PM   #72
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But if he loses to Cena even once people will say he is buried and his career is over. So he obviously NEEDS to dominate him.
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Old 06-07-2015, 10:15 PM   #73
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Feel like Owens will be ok after the Cena feud. Soon he will probably join the Authority, and start one upping Rollins.
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Old 06-08-2015, 02:26 PM   #74
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Do you think Cena will ever turn heel?
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