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Old 01-04-2015, 02:05 PM   #1
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Question What was worst: The way WWE booked the WCW invasion or the way WCW booked Bret Hart?
What in your opinion was more terrible between the two?

In my opinion the way WCW booked Bret Hart was far more terrible, than the way the invasion angle as booked. Sure, we didn't have Goldberg and Sting and all this guys that made WCW popular, but they evantually arrived (although Sting was late in almost 10 years). Booker T was a tremendous wrestler on Raw and SmackDown and was a World Heavyweight Champion. Goldberg also won the World Championship in the WWE. Ric Flair was treated great and was a intercontinental champion and a tag team champion in the WWE. None of those guys were treated as horribly as everyone seems to think.

Bret Hart on the other hand was getting buried, and was basically a mid-card type of guy. And even during the time he was the WCW Champion, he was put into this horrible nWo 2000 stable, that was just a rehash, of a rehashed nWo. Plus Kevin Nash and Scott Hall didn't give a f*ck at that point, which basically made this stable look even dumber. Bret Hart than suffered a stroke, because they put him in a match with a terrible wrestler named Goldberg. And basically all we had was Bret Hart in the mid-card, with no real storylines, with no real matches (his match were just like every WCW match: 'can we add some more run-ins and DQ finishes, please?'), and was just completely wasted.

Don't judge me for loving wrestling cause I'm a girl. Girls love fights to, y'know!
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Old 01-04-2015, 03:08 PM   #2
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What was worse: Obviously the Invasion, because Bret was NEVER going to do a damn thing in WCW.
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Old 01-04-2015, 03:53 PM   #3
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Bret Hart completely. He could have helped swing the tide of the Monday Night Wars but it was a complete fuck up. Invasion wasn't as good as it could have been but it was still worth watching.
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Old 01-04-2015, 04:09 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy Edgar View Post
What was worse: Obviously the Invasion, because Bret was NEVER going to do a damn thing in WCW.
This post was stupid.

I think the invasion was worse. Considering they were planning the brand split there was much more money on the line. Still, despite the fact bret hart was a horrible investment, wcw ended paying bret a lot of money not to work.
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Old 01-04-2015, 04:21 PM   #5
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Bret Hart. WCW failed badly to capitalize on the momentum from the Montreal Screwjob and tried their own version of the screwjob with Hogan vs Sting that was a huge bust. Also waited way too long to debut him to the point people were more interested in Vince vs Austin storyline going on in the WWF.

Invasion's failure was because of several factors, the biggest being the lack of big names for WCW's side. Can blame WCW more for that because of their foolish contracts and stars making more if they sat out than signed with WWF.
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Old 01-04-2015, 09:12 PM   #6
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Bret Hart in WCW. At least the Invasion made the company money.
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Old 01-04-2015, 10:22 PM   #7
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Bret Hart in WCW. The guy was a huge star coming out of the Montreal Screwjob, and WCW immediately, on night one, turned him into just another nobody wrestler who was a pawn in the WCW/nWo war.

Look at the way that WCW brought in Hulk Hogan in the beginning - that's how Bret should've come in. Okay, maybe not with the stupid parade and bullshit, which in the 1998 territory would've come off really cheesy. But with all the pomp and circumstance and glory and hype. WCW should've primed him as the main event of a huge episode of Nitro - the arrival of the Hitman in WCW!

Instead he shows up unannounced on Starrcade to "help" Sting win the WCW Title against Hogan after being "screwed." Sting should not have needed help to begin with, but that's another story. The point is that Bret was just another turn in the road of an already ongoing storyline instead of coming in as his own storyline.

Subsequent major PPV main event matches against guys like Hogan, Sting, Macho Man, DDP and Goldberg would have made huge money. But the nWo-obsessed storytellers in 1998 WCW did the only thing that made sense to them at the time - wrap him up in the nWo story. But that just killed whatever fire he had going for him, and the rest, as they say, is history.
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Old 01-04-2015, 10:38 PM   #8
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Bret.

The Invasion wasn't booked wrong they just didn't have the real WCW talent. They made chicken salad out of chicken shit except for Booker and DDP they had no real stars.

When was Bret Hart's first match in WCW? January 24, 1998. Let that sink in. Survivor Series was November 9, 1997. That is two solid months and fifteen days apart. You have the hottest free agent signing of the Monday Night War and you wait that long? You wait that long and you give him a match with Ric Flair? The guy he started his main event run in the WWF against.

The way he was booked from the get-go was insane. He was made a fool out of because of the end of WCW Starrcade 1997. The worst main event fiasco in the history of wrestling with the hype and the lack of a real payoff. Sting/Hogan should have been THE main event of the 1990s. Bar none. It was perfectly executed until the "fast count" by Nick Patrick. Bret breaking up that end ruined him. He cost Hogan a match he won clean.

Also he was the guest ref of an undercard match with Bischoff and fucking Larry Zbysco. If he was to be a ref. Make him the ref of Hogan/Sting from the get-go. Make him be the biggest deal in the history of wrestling to that point.

Now back to the 2 months thing. Bischoff hired him because of WCW Thunder and he needed new match-ups. Why wait 2 months if you needed new match ups to break up the tired story? Let's also say if you wanted him to have new match ups why align him with the nWo or even be a part of the story? There were plenty of people in WCW to feud with without making it an nWo part of the story. Benoit, Saturn, Malenko, Guerrero, Chavo Jr, Rey Mysterio, Chris Jericho and of course EL DANDY! He's a jam-up guy and a great wrestler. Who are you to doubt him?. He could have brought his similar weighted talents to the main event with him.

Whatever. Fuck Bischoff. Fuck Russo. Fuck Hogan. Fuck Nick Patrick.
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Old 01-04-2015, 11:00 PM   #9
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Invasion definitely could have been a lot better... But looking back on it, it was still a huge deal, and has a bunch of good memories....

Can't really think of anything specific Bret Hart did in WCW. Which is a shame... He had so much momentum and buzz... Could definitely have been utilized more.

End of the day, WWE capitalized off the screwjob with heel Vince, WCW got Bret, who has nowhere near the charisma... So whatever they did, I think WWE would have got the better of the deal.
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Old 01-05-2015, 12:34 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlickyTrickyDamon View Post

The Invasion wasn't booked wrong they just didn't have the real WCW talent. They made chicken salad out of chicken shit except for Booker and DDP they had no real stars.
You forgot about Lance Storm. But I forgive you.

I would say The Invasion... if only for the fact that Bret may have gained some sort of traction or ended up doing something worthwhile had he not gotten Goldberg'd. Granted, it would have likely been more about what Bret could do with circumstance and luck than actual booking and storywriting.

The Invasion, on the other hand, seems like it had a succession of let downs pertaining to the story iteslf. You don't really need to count the "bigger stars opting to sit out"- it became more about McMahon family drama than trying to establish the WWE owned wCw brand anyway, also choosing Buff Bagwell as the banner-carrier for a title match against Booker T., and having ECW join WCW instead of having a (pardon the pun) 3 way dance, Austin jumping ship, etc.

TL;DR - WCW just fucked one guy. WWE fucked up a potential money making endeavor which could have been a boon to a lot of underutilized, underappreciated talent.
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Old 01-05-2015, 07:52 AM   #11
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Bret in WCW by far. The Invasion could have been loads better, but Bret in WCW was just awful....
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Old 01-05-2015, 05:18 PM   #12
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Bret in WCW by far. The Invasion could have been loads better, but Bret in WCW was just awful....
this
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Old 01-07-2015, 12:54 AM   #13
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I wasn't a fan at the time, but all the research I have done has told me that Starrcade '97 was a night that WCW should have delivered on the promise of fantastic potential, but squandered it by misusing Bret Hart (who would have been super-hot at the time), and by having Sting look foolish against Hogan.

You should have had Bret wrestle a classic against someone in a feature match on the PPV, then have Sting basically squash black and white Hogan for the title. Give Hogan some time off as you have other nWo guys go after him for a few months, and have Bret Hart tease an interest in challenging Sting down the line.
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Old 01-07-2015, 09:59 AM   #14
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Great question.

I'd say WCW booking Bret was worse. The Invasion you only had limited players to use. Had they have waited until the big guns (Goldberg, NWO, Flair etc) came things could have been different. But they didn't want to long the Invasion out that long and it became watered down so quick anyway.

Bret in WCW could have been amazing. Considering his electric 1997, and I truly believe Bret WANTED to put in the effort, and had he been booked better would have bent over backwards to do great things. After the excellent Flair match debut, they just didn't follow up properly.

Logic would say book a Hart vs Hogan match first. Nope. An excellent Kevin Nash feud based on their history / Kliq history... nope. It was just a huge balls up.
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Old 01-07-2015, 03:32 PM   #15
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Bret. A lot of the Invasion stuff had to do wifh knee-jerk reactions and snap decisions, but Bret's misuse inn WCW was due to a bunch of idiots who didn't know their asses from a hole in the ground. I'm no Bret fan but a 3 month tour across the frozen nortb with the belt around his waist would have been a license to print Canadian dollars.
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Old 01-12-2015, 01:03 PM   #16
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The invasion. While it was criminal with what WCW did to Bret, the Invasion was what we as wrestling fans had wanted since Turner bought WCW. To water it down to another McMahon feud was akin to Vince pissing in our mouths.
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Old 01-15-2015, 07:25 PM   #17
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the Invasion was what we as wrestling fans had wanted since Turner bought WCW
And that they couldn't possibly give us when the biggest guys they could get were DDP and Booker. The expectations for the Invasion were totally unrealistic. The idea that Bret could have been something was not only realistic but should have been a slam dunk.
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Old 01-15-2015, 08:44 PM   #18
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I have to go with Bret Hart as well.

WCW politics continued to screw WCW even after its death. The established stars with the big contracts got to sit at home and do nothing, and the young guys who were never allowed to get over had to go back to work immediately. They had some good wrestlers for the Invasion angle, they just didn't have the name recognition. I really liked Kanyon, but I didn't want to see Kanyon vs The Rock; I wanted to see Sting vs Taker and Goldberg vs Austin.


The Bret Hart fiasco was just.... bleh. At no point did they have any clue on how to use him. I'm not even mad about the Starcade '97 deal because in concept it could have worked. Have Nick Patrick fast count, Bret comes out to stop it saying he won't let Sting get screwed like he was, especially by a guy like Hogan. Sting wins and you immediately move into a Hart vs Hogan program, which is the match that everyone wanted 4 years prior and never got. Obviously Hogan would chicken out, so it becomes Bret and Sting trying to eradicate the nWo to get to Hogan, all the while Bret saying that when it's over he is coming after the title.

That easily could have taken them to War Games where it's if WCW wins than Hogan must wrestle Bret at Starcade. WCW wins, we get our match, Bret goes over; and then you move into the nWo not seeing Hogan as a viable leader anymore, starting his road to red and yellow redemption, eventually coming back to kill his own creation: The nWo.

Now you've had a year of Bret in the main event, but away from the championship and you are set for an epic Sting vs Hart confrontation.

That's just what I would have done.... What did they do? Oh, he gets involved at Starcade and then wrestles Flair at the next PPV? Why? Then he feuds over the US belt against Hennig? Why? Then he joins the fucking nWo and becomes a lackey of Hogan, to the point where he wears his shirt on tv?! Fucking WHY?!

So yes, the Bret Hart fiasco was worse then The Invasion.
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