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Old 12-22-2015, 07:47 PM   #601
#1-norm-fan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
Seth Rollins vs Roman Reigns was planned for Survivor Series. Do you recall why it got changed?
Actually, Cesaro was obviously about to be inserted into that match to make it a triple threat for the world title. Him jobbing to Big Show was the first step to that. He would have gone on and beaten Sheamus for the title instead of Reigns but he got injured.

Of course these Meltzer sheep will have you believe WWE had no plans for Cesaro just as they had for all those months prior to the injury and him jobbing to Big Show was a simple squash to put Show over for his Lesnar feeding. But the planned storyline that I just pulled out of my ass can't be proven wrong, so... CHECKMATE, MELTZER SHEEP!
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Old 12-22-2015, 07:49 PM   #602
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In all seriousness, that Daniel Bryan rationalization might be wrestling forum post of the year for all the wrong reasons. lol

Right up there with STD's "My ancestors didn't die to become John Cena t-shirts." or whatever it was.
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Old 12-23-2015, 08:17 AM   #603
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Re-posting for greatness
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Old 12-23-2015, 10:14 AM   #604
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simple Fan View Post
The HHH/Punk match to set up Bryan is just hilarious. Can you imagine that playing out on TV.

HHH: Hey Punk I'm going to beat you and Bryan won't be in the main event.

Punk: Fuck that, if I beat you I'm in the main event.

HHH: No our match is all about Bryan but Shamus is going to beat Bryan in 10 seconds anyway so it won't matter.

Punk: WTF?

HHH: Its best for business

Punk: Scew that I quit
First, Im just presenting that as a possible scenario. Punk and Bryan were paired together. It would have actually played out perfectly because The Authority was trying to screw Bryan. Punk would have been able to defy The Authority's plan to screw Bryan. At the same time you plant the seeds for a future program between Bryan and Punk where Punk says you only won the title because of me. Sheamus' role is just that of Authority henchman.

But that's just me playing fantasy booker.

I've said multiple times I don't know what the plans were. Just like nobody knows. I've said many times that it was possible Brysn WASNT going to win the title at Mania, but rather shortly thereafter. I also don't think Batista was ever going to be the champ coming out of Mania because they went right into the Evolution-Shield thing. And that served to establish Evolution and launched the Rollins heel turn, which was a focal point of storylines for the next 18 months. That seemed planned out, and wouldn't fit it Batista was the champ.

To me the larger issue isn't whether Bryan was going to get the title at 30 or not (I do believe that was planned before Rumble). The issue is was WWE grooming him for the top spot. Who knows maybe they had an idea to do Batista v Bryan after Mania, and have Bryan win at that point. Regardless of what show it happened at, the company was behind it. It wasn't some grassroots campaign that got him pushed like they tell you it was on TV.
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Old 12-23-2015, 10:22 AM   #605
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Quote:
Originally Posted by screech View Post
So what's your excuse for holding everyone else to those standards? I'm fairly certain no one on here has claimed to be a wrestling journalist.
It depends what is being said.

When people state things as absolute fact - like just take this Bryan discussion. The real answer is nobody knows. I don't know the whole story, you don't know it, Meltzer doesn't know it, the janitor who stands by the toilet while the writing assistant is on the phone and stooges stuff off to the Sheetz doesn't know it. Likely only 4 or 5 people know it and they don't talk. But people on here will take fifth hand information and present it as fact. Or will take a guy saying something in kayfabe and pass it as reality.

If you are being that cocksure about it, sure you should provide evidence. I have never stated my position as being a known fact. I just went by what I saw on TV. Bryan was pushed harder than anyone other than Cena week after week. And this was well before The Rumble.
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Old 12-23-2015, 10:38 AM   #606
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorgeous Dale Newstead View Post
I believe this line of argument has been answered ad nauseum. This is another logical fallacy (one of many which you like to use) and you are using it to distract from having to make any sense.

Aka you're being a big wank
Its actually the one that cuts at the heart of the issue with you people.

I challenge you to notice something with these debates. The people on here who CLAIM to be against my position that WWE is for the most part really great have the most detailed knowledge of storylines. #1fan or whatever that gimmick is, is probably the worst offender. He'll try to use these obscure details of storylines to "prove" WWE is terrible at writing. I'll open myself up here, but I don't watch every hour of WWE TV. I barely get the chance to watch all of RAW. I rarely watch Smackdown in its entirety and I don't watch anything else.

But when I watch, 9 times out of 10 I say that was a good laugh and I let my fellow fans here know I enjoyed the show. The odd thing is the people who CLAIM to hate every aspect of the show, seem to watch in the most detail. So you're left with two options to explain this behaviour. Either they are lying, which I believe to be most likely, at the very least exaggerating their dislike of the show to align with the groupthink mentality of the IWC. Or they wish to punish themselves and watch something they don't enjoy week after week. I could see doing this for a month, maybe a year. But some people will reference terrible stuff from 15 years ago. Meaning they have been not enjoying the show longer than they enjoyed it. Weird behaviour if you ask me. I guess there is a third option, where people claim they hated the product, stopped watching, now just read about the product and then spend hours in their life posting in great detail about something they don't enjoy and don't watch and therefore can't formulate a worthwhile opinion on the product. Of course that would be utterly pathetic, so I don't think many fall into that category.
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Old 12-23-2015, 10:41 AM   #607
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drave View Post
Re-posting for greatness
"We listrn to our fans"

Says the guy who paid money for a ticket, spent time to create at least one sign to express his "anger".

The IWC ladies and gentlement.
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Old 12-23-2015, 11:01 AM   #608
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I was going more for the wank pheasant thing. Also, generally speaking, LOL = something being funny. Not sure where you think the fella is expressing his anger.


Lastly, Sheetz is a place that some gay guys go to when they wanna bang each other at 3AM on any given morning. No one, except Afterlife, gets his wrestling news from Sheetz.
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Old 12-23-2015, 11:02 AM   #609
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I don't get what that has to with anything.
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Old 12-23-2015, 11:11 AM   #610
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drave View Post
I was going more for the wank pheasant thing. Also, generally speaking, LOL = something being funny. Not sure where you think the fella is expressing his anger.


Lastly, Sheetz is a place that some gay guys go to when they wanna bang each other at 3AM on any given morning. No one, except Afterlife, gets his wrestling news from Sheetz.
I took the LOL to make the statement above sarcastic. Could be wrong though.

I'm fully supportive of your lifestyle choices. Don't need to know what you do at 3AM.
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Old 12-23-2015, 11:34 AM   #611
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
So we're supposed to listen to Daniel Bryan but not Roman Reigns.

My proof is the months of booking Bryan to get screwed, to be kept as the focal point of the shows...
The focal point of the shows was Cena vs Orton, uniting the belts, not Daniel Bryan.
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Old 12-23-2015, 11:56 AM   #612
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Vic View Post
The focal point of the shows was Cena vs Orton, uniting the belts, not Daniel Bryan.
I mentioned Bryan was pushed harder than anyone other than Cena.

But Bryan was interacting with the authority week after week calling him a B+ player. But then behind the scenes he's going over Cena clean, winning the title, only to get screwed by The Authority. If they didn't plan for him to headline he would be booked like someone like Ryback is today.
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Old 12-23-2015, 12:19 PM   #613
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He wasn't interacting with the authority at that time, he was 100% focused on Bray Wyatt.
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Old 12-23-2015, 01:42 PM   #614
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Vic View Post
He wasn't interacting with the authority at that time, he was 100% focused on Bray Wyatt.
How long did that program last

Why do people like you pretend that he wasn't pushed in the summer and fall?
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Old 12-23-2015, 01:54 PM   #615
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Because he wasn't. His feud with Wyatt started in October 27 and ran through that year's Rumble, which took place on January 26th. 4 months away from the main event in an unrelated feud while Cena and Big Show were working the main event picture.

So he received a quick push near the end of the summer, got a couple of rematches out of it, and was moved back down to feud with Wyatt.
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Old 12-23-2015, 02:07 PM   #616
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Damian Rey View Post
Because he wasn't. His feud with Wyatt started in October 27 and ran through that year's Rumble, which took place on January 26th. 4 months away from the main event in an unrelated feud while Cena and Big Show were working the main event picture.

So he received a quick push near the end of the summer, got a couple of rematches out of it, and was moved back down to feud with Wyatt.
Lol

So he beats Cena clean for the title. Beats Orton. Main events several PPVs in a row. Is the main adversary of The Authority and that's "just a quick push".

Those kool aid parties where you guys get your material must be a riot.
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Old 12-23-2015, 02:09 PM   #617
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Vic View Post
He wasn't interacting with the authority at that time, he was 100% focused on Bray Wyatt.
He was being groomed to headline Mania. It was important to keep him out of the title mix for a period of time to build anticipation.

Steve Austin wasnt fighting for the title in late 98 early 99. He was doing random stuff. Then they set the table for him at Mania.
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Old 12-23-2015, 02:15 PM   #618
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
I mentioned Bryan was pushed harder than anyone other than Cena.
Losing to Bray Wyatt is not being push harder than anyone but Cena

During that time span the following following wrestlers were being pushed harder than Daniel Bryan

John Cena
Randy Orton
CM Punk
Roman Reigns
Bray Wyatt
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Old 12-23-2015, 02:22 PM   #619
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He won the title at one ppv were he lost it immediately after. That was started in August 18. He was out of the main event in October. You call that long term? Which feud lasted longer? The three matches in two months or the story line that played out through the end of January?

Per usual you make some false claim you failed to verify and now you're dancing around in circles.

"Daniel Bryan v was pushed in the summer and fall"

"He spent the fall and winter feuding with Wyatt"

"Lol dispute factual evidence and avoid my initial claim"
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Old 12-23-2015, 02:27 PM   #620
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
Its actually the one that cuts at the heart of the issue with you people.

I challenge you to notice something with these debates. The people on here who CLAIM to be against my position that WWE is for the most part really great have the most detailed knowledge of storylines. #1fan or whatever that gimmick is, is probably the worst offender. He'll try to use these obscure details of storylines to "prove" WWE is terrible at writing. I'll open myself up here, but I don't watch every hour of WWE TV. I barely get the chance to watch all of RAW. I rarely watch Smackdown in its entirety and I don't watch anything else.

But when I watch, 9 times out of 10 I say that was a good laugh and I let my fellow fans here know I enjoyed the show. The odd thing is the people who CLAIM to hate every aspect of the show, seem to watch in the most detail. So you're left with two options to explain this behaviour. Either they are lying, which I believe to be most likely, at the very least exaggerating their dislike of the show to align with the groupthink mentality of the IWC. Or they wish to punish themselves and watch something they don't enjoy week after week. I could see doing this for a month, maybe a year. But some people will reference terrible stuff from 15 years ago. Meaning they have been not enjoying the show longer than they enjoyed it. Weird behaviour if you ask me. I guess there is a third option, where people claim they hated the product, stopped watching, now just read about the product and then spend hours in their life posting in great detail about something they don't enjoy and don't watch and therefore can't formulate a worthwhile opinion on the product. Of course that would be utterly pathetic, so I don't think many fall into that category.
Being a big bombastic butthole will do you no favours.
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Old 12-23-2015, 02:30 PM   #621
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Also after he lost to Orton in HIAC Orton once again beat him on Smackdown.
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Old 12-23-2015, 03:09 PM   #622
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Also considering you are posting on a wrestling discussion forum and your critique is that someone highly critical of the product shouldn't be watching so much of it is pretty baseless, considering people like fan habe a passion and interest in wrestling.

And someone like me who doesn't watch much anymore isn't allowed an opinion because I don't watch enough. I can tell you that what I do watch and the results I see are not up to my set of standards. It

So pretty much there is a finite amount you are allowed to watch to be able to have an opinion. And even then that opinion has to be your opinion or else we are Meltzer sheep. It can't be too much it can't be too little. Only the amount that the cynick watches.

Step up your game, anus boy. Stop allowing weird personal bias get in the way of real discourse.
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Old 12-23-2015, 03:22 PM   #623
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Like I dont understand essentially criticizing people for watching too much wrestling when you yourself are posting on a forum dedicated to wrestling nerds.

You yourself are enough of a fan to defend the product til the death. How does that make you any less ridiculous than you are trying to make others out to be you Fucking weirdo lol
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Old 12-23-2015, 04:05 PM   #624
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The whole "You can't hate it if you follow it!" thing is the apologist way of defending the product against people who think it's shit when there is no other defense.

Dale hit the nail on the head. I have a love and passion for the wrestling business. When things are really bad, I'm gonna mention it. I tend to just look up results and watch clips of anything that seems watchable nowadays. I'm not gonna completely abandon it because I like the business and want to keep following it and hoping that it picks back up at some point.

If you wanna do a point-counterpoint, we can do that all day. When you fail at that and fall back on "Well if it's so bad, why do you care!?" you're pretty much showing everyone how little of an actual defense you have to hold on to. It's a reach.
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Old 12-23-2015, 04:26 PM   #625
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Some people really like wrestling, so they watch when its on.

Some people really like Star Wars, so they watch the prequels.
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Old 12-23-2015, 05:06 PM   #626
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
The whole "You can't hate it if you follow it!" thing is the apologist way of defending the product against people who think it's shit when there is no other defense.

Dale hit the nail on the head. I have a love and passion for the wrestling business. When things are really bad, I'm gonna mention it. I tend to just look up results and watch clips of anything that seems watchable nowadays. I'm not gonna completely abandon it because I like the business and want to keep following it and hoping that it picks back up at some point.

If you wanna do a point-counterpoint, we can do that all day. When you fail at that and fall back on "Well if it's so bad, why do you care!?" you're pretty much showing everyone how little of an actual defense you have to hold on to. It's a reach.
To be honest, if he actually really wanted to focus on the product without resorting to diversion tactics in his argument, there would be great discussions about his feelings on the product.

But instead we're stuck with him feeding his own weird agenda.

You want to see some great convos? Check out most arguments with Gertner when he wanted to talk wrestling. He hated most of the internet heroes and yet there were some great threads talking about the product with him. Sure he can be bombastic with the rest of them, but he clearly knew more about what he was talking about than Nick.
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Old 12-23-2015, 07:18 PM   #627
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Gertner has the greatest heel trait in that what he speaks is true whether you like it or not. He spoke factually.
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Old 01-08-2016, 02:19 PM   #628
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I can appreciate that. Sounds like I have a lot in common with this Gertner fellow.

I see ratings are back up now that football is over. The most watched show on cable on Monday by a large margin.
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Old 01-08-2016, 04:37 PM   #629
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Yes by 1%
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Old 01-08-2016, 04:38 PM   #630
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Down 10% from last year
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Old 01-08-2016, 05:59 PM   #631
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TV is down across the board.

Can only really compare to what's on today. I believe RAW had around 20% more viewers than the second most watched show on Monday. That's solid. And this is with a decimated roster.
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Old 01-08-2016, 06:07 PM   #632
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You don't hold a candle to gertner
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Old 01-08-2016, 06:31 PM   #633
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You don't hold a candle to gertner
That's cool
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Old 01-08-2016, 06:44 PM   #634
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TV is down across the board.

Can only really compare to what's on today. I believe RAW had around 20% more viewers than the second most watched show on Monday. That's solid. And this is with a decimated roster.
Yeah but they advertised a title match with a special guest ref, it should have went up more than 1% imo
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Old 01-09-2016, 02:03 AM   #635
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Yeah but they advertised a title match with a special guest ref, it should have went up more than 1% imo
Thats a pretty arbitrary statement. What "should" the number have been?

I would say having the most watched thing on cable on Monday is a success.

They also have the most watched thing on cable on Thursday.

Likely lots of champagne popping going on at USA. More evidence of WWE's power to draw in viewers on a regular basis. Really unmatched in the TV industry.
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Old 01-10-2016, 04:53 PM   #636
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Quote:
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Likely lots of champagne popping going on at USA. More evidence of WWE's power to draw in viewers on a regular basis. Really unmatched in the TV industry.
lmfao Yeah I'm sure they really give a shit
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Old 01-10-2016, 04:56 PM   #637
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I was talking to the COO of the company I work for as he is a friend of the family. And he was telling me that our company had a really MEH year when it came to making money.

He said "Yeah we always make money and we do okay, but we want to reach our goals and do really well"

Just because you're barely doing okay is no reason to celebrate. They're literally the ONLY wrestling show that is known to the main stream and their results are MEH at best. No champagne is being popped you big doofus.
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Old 01-10-2016, 09:54 PM   #638
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When you didnt have shows on multiple days of the week that are drawing the largest audience on cable, and now you do, thats a reason to celebrate.

But I'm sure your CEO friend has never had a year where he was #1 at something in his industry, so probably not the right person to get an opinion from.
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Old 01-10-2016, 09:57 PM   #639
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Mm hmmm
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Old 01-15-2016, 07:49 PM   #640
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I love when Dale loses a debate
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