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Old 11-25-2015, 12:35 PM   #281
drave
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He does sell a lot of merch, which ultimately is what matters anyway - the almighty $$$.

Doesn't take away from the fact that he still seems quite bland to most people over the age of 10.
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Old 11-25-2015, 12:35 PM   #282
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I do think it's really funny that CyNick has such a hard time admitting that a guy in his 70s has been out of touch for a long time.
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Old 11-25-2015, 12:36 PM   #283
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Red face
Quote:
Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
Right, but you guys who "dont watch" can site the result of every single match from every RAW.

if you actually don't watch, then you should have no opinion on the product. I dont go on a Bachelor message board and say the show currently sucks because I watched it 7 years ago. It would be ignorant.
I watch every week and they're only tid bits that are actually entertaining. Usually the New Day segment. A lot of it has the chance to be great but they screw it up . Big fan of Wyatt, WWE does nothing with him to build the character the way it should be. Big Cesaro fan, WWE does nothing to help the guy out. I enjoy the matches on Raw but the storutelling is weak and dull.
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Old 11-25-2015, 12:38 PM   #284
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lol it doesn't take much more than reading the results and watching some clips to realize how fucking horrendous it is.
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Old 11-25-2015, 12:39 PM   #285
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I think it also says a lot when they have to "edit" crowd reactions (on replays of Raw and especially Smackdown!) to make "their guy" seem "good".
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Old 11-25-2015, 01:48 PM   #286
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
For some perspective:

MNF featured the undefeated New England Patriots, one of the biggest draws in the sport. As a result MNF had more than 2 million viewers WoW or a 17% gain.
I wonder if the patriots played last year on MNF, I wonder what the numbers were then.
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Old 11-25-2015, 02:26 PM   #287
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I might be wrong on this given I live in a different country, but I'm fairly certain this National Football League we're hearing about is more than a couple of years old, and may in fact have been playing every year at this time for every one of the last 18 years. If they did better ratings that entire time, I'm wondering if the football defense may have a hole or two in there.

Im not denying that competition isn't an issue, but its time to look in the mirror.
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Old 11-25-2015, 02:38 PM   #288
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Laughing
FUN FACT: TNA on a Monday night drew 2.2 million viewers.
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Old 11-25-2015, 02:40 PM   #289
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Can we start saying lolwwe now?
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Old 11-25-2015, 02:41 PM   #290
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simple Fan View Post
Roman does fail every time he picks up a mic. Vince is dead set on pushing the guy that doesn't deserve the push he's getting.
1. i think thats hyperbole.

2. whats your definition of deserve?
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Old 11-25-2015, 02:41 PM   #291
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hb2k View Post
I might be wrong on this given I live in a different country, but I'm fairly certain this National Football League we're hearing about is more than a couple of years old, and may in fact have been playing every year at this time for every one of the last 18 years. If they did better ratings that entire time, I'm wondering if the football defense may have a hole or two in there.

Im not denying that competition isn't an issue, but its time to look in the mirror.
but this year the NFL drugged the audience to all over the states to strictly tune into the patriots vs the bills
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Old 11-25-2015, 03:35 PM   #292
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Might have been the Observer or F4W that had an article about historical breakdowns and while football has taken a bit of a bigger chunk this year away, majority of the decline is still on the WWE's end.


Even by Road to Mania standards, the audience and ratings have been dropping the past few years.
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Old 11-25-2015, 03:58 PM   #293
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drave View Post
He does sell a lot of merch, which ultimately is what matters anyway - the almighty $$$.

Doesn't take away from the fact that he still seems quite bland to most people over the age of 10.
So you answered your own question. Reigns sells, that's why he was chosen and continues to be pushed.

This goes back to this thing where people are expecting WWE to cater to everyone individually.
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Old 11-25-2015, 04:02 PM   #294
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simple Fan View Post
I watch every week and they're only tid bits that are actually entertaining. Usually the New Day segment. A lot of it has the chance to be great but they screw it up . Big fan of Wyatt, WWE does nothing with him to build the character the way it should be. Big Cesaro fan, WWE does nothing to help the guy out. I enjoy the matches on Raw but the storutelling is weak and dull.
I really don't want to get into Bray. Guy has basically only worked with the very top guys since he broke in. He's a heel, so he loses in the end. I think ultimately he will turn babyface (that's why WWE goes out of their way to showcase the fireflies). The ironic thing is when he turns face, and wins more, people on here will say he's boring and WWE is forcing him down our throats.

Cesaro is limited in terms is storylines because he's not a good promo guy. He needs to get over by doing cool things in the ring. WWE started to showcase him more, but he blew out his shoulder. Miserable timing.
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Old 11-25-2015, 04:04 PM   #295
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorgeous Dale Newstead View Post
lol it doesn't take much more than reading the results and watching some clips to realize how fucking horrendous it is.
So now its you watch "some clips"

Maybe that's how a bunch of people consume RAW, where even a year ago it wasn't as readily available. Could explain some of those changes in viewing patterns I talk about.
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Old 11-25-2015, 04:06 PM   #296
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Vic View Post
I wonder if the patriots played last year on MNF, I wonder what the numbers were then.
You can't compare games YoY. We're the Pats undefeated when they played, was it this far into the season? Were other entertainment shows trending in the same direction as RAW.

But don't worry gloss over the entire point.
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Old 11-25-2015, 04:07 PM   #297
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hb2k View Post
I might be wrong on this given I live in a different country, but I'm fairly certain this National Football League we're hearing about is more than a couple of years old, and may in fact have been playing every year at this time for every one of the last 18 years. If they did better ratings that entire time, I'm wondering if the football defense may have a hole or two in there.

Im not denying that competition isn't an issue, but its time to look in the mirror.
As I've stated, any ratings decline is not good. But when other shows show the same pattern as RAW (worse actually) it indicates that on that week, football siphoned viewers.
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Old 11-25-2015, 04:10 PM   #298
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NFL isn't catching now WWE RAW ppl this time, they are just as guilty of not wanting to offend anyone as much as WWE.


There are other avenues in which a man or woman can get their entertainment on, like Netflix and Chill, Amazon Instant and Piss, getting lost in YouTube and PornHub
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Old 11-25-2015, 04:15 PM   #299
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
As I've stated, any ratings decline is not good. But when other shows show the same pattern as RAW (worse actually) it indicates that on that week, football siphoned viewers.
I remember after the TV deal was announced, Vince said it wasn't a long term deal, which means they're probably going to start negotiations in a year or so. Declining ratings gives USA more leverage to pay a lower amount for the rights and charge less for ad time.
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Old 11-25-2015, 04:21 PM   #300
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smelly Meatball View Post
Might have been the Observer or F4W that had an article about historical breakdowns and while football has taken a bit of a bigger chunk this year away, majority of the decline is still on the WWE's end.


Even by Road to Mania standards, the audience and ratings have been dropping the past few years.
I find a lot of people with newsletters and podcasts get out of their depth when talking about TV ratings in a historical sense.

If you talk to people in the TV business, you hear about DVR proof programs and their value. Sports leagues are one of the few remaining providers of such programming. A lot of sports execs have lined their pockets because rights fees have went through the roof due to this changing landscape. Unfortunately WWE isn't sports, so they don't have the same luxury. On top of that you have an increase in usage of things like You Tube, Hulu, etc for consuming entertainment. It all cuts into the overall audience on traditional TV.

If you read articles from Variety, they talk about declining ratings across the board. If for example USA's overall numbers were say up 5% YoY and WWE was down 10% YoY, then I would say WWE should be somewhat concerned. But everything I've read, the opposite is true. And the lesson from the Attitude Era was that you can draw 6-7 million viewers per week, but if advertisers are not willing to support your product, you won't see the benefits. So even if WWE dropped to 2 million viewers per week, if advertisers see them as more premium, WWE will net or ahead.
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Old 11-25-2015, 04:26 PM   #301
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Innovator View Post
I remember after the TV deal was announced, Vince said it wasn't a long term deal, which means they're probably going to start negotiations in a year or so. Declining ratings gives USA more leverage to pay a lower amount for the rights and charge less for ad time.
Which is contradicted by record intetest from advertisers. More demand means higher price. WWE knows this increase in intetest is happening, so they will likely ask for more. On top of that you have a lot of cable networks looking for programming that will raise their average. WWE even with the recent decline would still increase the average for the majority of cable networks. In the end, their fees should at least stay the same, if not increase.

The more intetesting thing to me will be do they lock in long term this time around. A lot of people are predicting a decline in TV rights fees across the board in the next decade as viewing habits change.
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Old 11-25-2015, 04:38 PM   #302
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Quote:
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Really hate how Reigns was champion for 5 minutes and has never held another singles title and has an automatic rematch already. What has Roman done to deserve a rematch? It just lazy booking and storytelling.
Yeah, and Cynick argues that it's WWE "slowly" building him up. That's absurd. He hasn't even won another singles title. Yeah, it's slow if you consider the fact that Vince's first attempt at making Roman a world champ/main eventer never took off because it was rejected so blatently before it started. Instead of trying to build Roman up in between he just decides to wait a while without having Roman successfully get more over before basically trying the same thing again.
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Old 11-25-2015, 04:48 PM   #303
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Quote:
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Yeah, and Cynick argues that it's WWE "slowly" building him up. That's absurd. He hasn't even won another singles title. Yeah, it's slow if you consider the fact that Vince's first attempt at making Roman a world champ/main eventer never took off because it was rejected so blatently before it started. Instead of trying to build Roman up in between he just decides to wait a while without having Roman successfully get more over before basically trying the same thing again.
At the end of the day, it looks to me like the plan was always to get the title on Rollins. I think they decided it made more sense long term to avoid having Brock lose, and get the belt on Rollins. That way you still have the story of Reigns finally getting to the top of the mountain and you could still sell Brock vs Reigns as unfinished business.

But the mistake they made was involving Daniel Bryan. That hurt Reigns a great deal.
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Old 11-25-2015, 05:21 PM   #304
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Innovator View Post
I remember after the TV deal was announced, Vince said it wasn't a long term deal, which means they're probably going to start negotiations in a year or so. Declining ratings gives USA more leverage to pay a lower amount for the rights and charge less for ad time.
Think 2017 is when the clause in the current contract comes up. Sort of like TNA's deal with Destination America but with the WWE and not USA being the ones to opt out.

Investors might try to force Vince out for real if he fails or lies about getting a massive deal again. Stocks still haven't fully recovered from that blunder and the Network being well under what the WWE kept hyping.
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Old 11-25-2015, 05:38 PM   #305
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Originally Posted by Shadrick View Post
1. i think thats hyperbole.

2. whats your definition of deserve?
Someone who can actually connect with fans. Roman is not a tier guy and I don't believe he will be as long as he's playing John Cena 2.0 . The guy has potential to be " the guy" just not at the moment. Guys like Cesaro, Ambrose, Owens, and Ziggler are more deserving in my opinion. Reigns is being force fed and he just comes off as a phony.
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Old 11-25-2015, 05:46 PM   #306
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
So you answered your own question. Reigns sells, that's why he was chosen and continues to be pushed.

This goes back to this thing where people are expecting WWE to cater to everyone individually.
I answered YOUR question to someone else.

The point was that despite Reigns selling a lot of merch (to kids), most people who have been long time viewers and are > 10 years old do not care for him or his very boring character, nothing more.

Selling a lot of merch =/= good entertainment.
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Old 11-25-2015, 05:50 PM   #307
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Just as a point of interest, what else do you enjoy watching Cynick?
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Old 11-25-2015, 05:53 PM   #308
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smelly Meatball View Post
Might have been the Observer or F4W that had an article about historical breakdowns and while football has taken a bit of a bigger chunk this year away, majority of the decline is still on the WWE's end.


Even by Road to Mania standards, the audience and ratings have been dropping the past few years.
Those figures match up and it leads to one thing.

SPOILER: show
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Old 11-25-2015, 08:54 PM   #309
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorgeous Dale Newstead View Post
Just as a point of interest, what else do you enjoy watching Cynick?
The only other non sports thing I watch right now is Walking Dead.

I liked Sopranos, 24, and Breaking Bad when they were on. Those are the only scripted drama type shows I ever got into.

But sports takes up most of my TV time.
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Old 11-25-2015, 10:16 PM   #310
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
Right, but you guys who "dont watch" can site the result of every single match from every RAW.

if you actually don't watch, then you should have no opinion on the product. I dont go on a Bachelor message board and say the show currently sucks because I watched it 7 years ago. It would be ignorant.
this is why people perceive you to be a ding bat by the way. Because you appeal to constant fallacies. And it's why it's most likely that you are in some shape or form trolling.

This has been addressed on multiple occasions and you've ignored it to press on with your narrative. Up your game the CyNick I know you've got more than this.
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Old 11-26-2015, 01:18 PM   #311
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorgeous Dale Newstead View Post
this is why people perceive you to be a ding bat by the way. Because you appeal to constant fallacies. And it's why it's most likely that you are in some shape or form trolling.

This has been addressed on multiple occasions and you've ignored it to press on with your narrative. Up your game the CyNick I know you've got more than this.
People can respond with an insufficient explanation of how they can get into detailed discussions about shows they claim to not watch.

How was the Habs game last night? Real answer - I have no idea, I didn't watch. IWC response - it was awful, it was one sided and boring. I didn't watch, but I saw two clips and read a summary online.
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Old 11-26-2015, 01:23 PM   #312
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Love how you keep bringing up the IWC like your not apart of it.
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Old 11-26-2015, 02:04 PM   #313
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simple Fan View Post
Love how you keep bringing up the IWC like your not apart of it.
To me IWC is a sub set of sports entertainment fans on the Internet. You can be online and not be part of the IWC.

I use it to group the people who watch and spew hated week after week and think they are smarter than Vince and co.
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Old 11-26-2015, 02:08 PM   #314
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Your a member of a internet wrestling forum, you are apart of the IWC.
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Old 11-26-2015, 07:53 PM   #315
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
To me IWC is a sub set of sports entertainment fans on the Internet. You can be online and not be part of the IWC.

I use it to group the people who watch and spew hated week after week and think they are smarter than Vince and co.
lol I don't think anyone here thinks they are smarter than Vince McMahon.

But to ignore the fact that wrestling is a politicking backstabbing petty business where constant poor decisions are made based on ego is just naive. We know what we see.

Just because we can't do the job better than Vince, doesn't mean the job can't be done better. I personally don't partake in fantasy booking, but I do possess the ability to critique.

I take it you've been to University as you seem a very articulate (albeit sometimes obtuse) individual. Well it taught me the ability to think critically and critique something I don't like in a constructive manner. Quality is certainly subjective, but like I said before, we some how all can surmise that the Rock is better than Barry Horowitz.

Though, much like you, my fellow IWC members (that's what we all are) have the propensity to bother me all the same. You aren't alone in this in the least. It drives me nuts if I hear somebody derail the Rocks work, or call Steve Austin a lousy worker... hell if someone tries to say they weren't a fan of Hulkamania when they grew up in the 80s I know they're lying. These are all things we see in the internet community. And you are not alone in people having vastly differing opinions on all of this.

What you are alone in is being a complete and utter blowhard who thinks he's smarter than everyone for the most part lol.
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Old 11-26-2015, 09:36 PM   #316
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I tried to watch Smackdown tonight, and honestly, it made me too ashamed to tell anybody I'm a fan of wrestling. Once upon a time, I would have a panic attack if I missed a minute of a WWF/E show, but that time has long passed with this aimless Disney circus flavor of pro wrestling. The saddest part is that I am yet to meet any children who actually watch it or even know what it is. TPWW is the only place I have anyone to talk about the sport without being ridiculed, and I can't even discuss the material of today with even this community because I don't find it entertaining anymore. Is this a phase or is it truly that dreadful of a show these days?
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Old 11-26-2015, 10:05 PM   #317
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also, the whole "we think we're smarter than Vince" is that same nonsense where if I'm angry at the way Sidney Crosby played on Saturday night, you can retort by saying "WELL HE DID BETTER THAN YOU COULD" like wut? I'm not a professional hockey player nor do i get paid to book wrestling storylines. But I know what I like and I have an idea of what is well received by most audiences, the same as I know if Sidney Crosby played crap or played well.
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Old 11-26-2015, 11:46 PM   #318
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Damndirty View Post
I tried to watch Smackdown tonight, and honestly, it made me too ashamed to tell anybody I'm a fan of wrestling. Once upon a time, I would have a panic attack if I missed a minute of a WWF/E show, but that time has long passed with this aimless Disney circus flavor of pro wrestling. The saddest part is that I am yet to meet any children who actually watch it or even know what it is. TPWW is the only place I have anyone to talk about the sport without being ridiculed, and I can't even discuss the material of today with even this community because I don't find it entertaining anymore. Is this a phase or is it truly that dreadful of a show these days?
Well Mick Foley and ex-WWE writers agree that the product is awful right now. And personally I'd take Mick Foley's word over CyNicks.
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Old 11-26-2015, 11:59 PM   #319
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simple Fan View Post
Your a member of a internet wrestling forum, you are apart of the IWC.
Well then I'm coming up with a different term
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Old 11-27-2015, 12:12 AM   #320
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorgeous Dale Newstead View Post
lol I don't think anyone here thinks they are smarter than Vince McMahon.

But to ignore the fact that wrestling is a politicking backstabbing petty business where constant poor decisions are made based on ego is just naive. We know what we see.

Just because we can't do the job better than Vince, doesn't mean the job can't be done better. I personally don't partake in fantasy booking, but I do possess the ability to critique.

I take it you've been to University as you seem a very articulate (albeit sometimes obtuse) individual. Well it taught me the ability to think critically and critique something I don't like in a constructive manner. Quality is certainly subjective, but like I said before, we some how all can surmise that the Rock is better than Barry Horowitz.

Though, much like you, my fellow IWC members (that's what we all are) have the propensity to bother me all the same. You aren't alone in this in the least. It drives me nuts if I hear somebody derail the Rocks work, or call Steve Austin a lousy worker... hell if someone tries to say they weren't a fan of Hulkamania when they grew up in the 80s I know they're lying. These are all things we see in the internet community. And you are not alone in people having vastly differing opinions on all of this.

What you are alone in is being a complete and utter blowhard who thinks he's smarter than everyone for the most part lol.
I think lots of people online think they can do things better than Vince, which is absolutely insane given that NOBODY has come close to the success Vince has had. WCW was the closest and they managed to have success for barely over a year, and then they were squashed dead by Vince. My favourite thing online is reading how people say a guy like Jim Cornette is a great mind and a booking genius. He's had stops in other companies, but I didnt see them blast off in terms of popularity. I never saw him create a worldwide superstar. Its a very unique industry, and only Vince has mastered it, therefore I give him the benefit of the doubt on decisions.

The other major beef I have is when people talk like Vince makes decisions for anything other than making money for his company in mind. The narrative is usually things like "oh he wanted to bury that guy because he's from WCW". Has any of the so called reporters in this industry ever got a quote from Vince or HHH to validate that claim? No of course not. But the people who read that garbage, take it like its gospel, and try to pass it off as fact in conversations like this one.

Roman Reigns may not catch on as a #1 babyface, but it wasnt long ago, when he looked like he was on his way to becoming just that. The same Vince that is apparently out of touch, also managed to place Daniel Bryan in the main event of 30 and create one of the most special moments in WWE history. Was he out of touch by having Daniel go down with a career threatening injury? The same Vince green lights NXT every night. Because NXT exists to appeal to a subset of the sports entertainment audience, the people on here say its the best thing in the company. Its the same guy giving the go ahead. Cant have it both ways thats all.
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