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Old 09-23-2016, 09:17 AM   #1
Mr. Nerfect
 
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Let's say WCW calls you after Starrcade 1997...

You met Eric Bischoff at the Gold Club one night, and he liked some of your ideas as an avid fan of professional wrestling. Starrcade 1997 goes down and Eric Bischoff says "That's it, we need some fresh direction," so he's picked up his phone and he's called you, because you're also the guy who has kept the secret about Terry Bollea's tiny cock for many years, and he "owes you one, brother." He's still got his creative control, so he's not exactly going to be going away, but you've got his ear and can try and convince him to go along with the program.

You're allowed to turn down the $1,000,000 Ted Turner has frivolously thrown in your face, but your dog wants some premium chow or something. What is the general creative direction you go in? What is the long-term plan you go with -- provided that everybody plays ball -- and what do you put together immediately for Souled Out on PPV in January?

I hear a lot about WCW Starrcade 1997, and about it being a "jump the shark" moment in WCW's history. Ratings and PPV buys seemed to climb higher and higher though, but it was obvious that the major angles had to change at some point. You hear a lot about the specifics of that moment, but I'm curious to see what would have been preferred by people heading into 1998 to go against the rise of Stone Cold Steve Austin.

For those wondering, here is your championship roster coming out of Starrcade:

WCW World Heavyweight Champion: Sting
WCW World Tag Team Champions: The Steiner Brothers (soon to be The Outsiders, with The Steiners splitting up)
WCW United States Heavyweight Champion: Diamond Dallas Page
WCW World Television Champion: Disco Inferno (soon to be won by Booker T)
WCW World Cruiserweight Champion: Eddie Guerrero (soon to be won by Ultimo Dragon, then Rey Mysterio, then Chris Jericho)

Here is the most complete roster list I can find:

SPOILER: show

* Alex Wright
* The Barbarian
* Barry Darsow
* Barry Horowitz
* Billy Kidman
* Bobby Blaze
* Bobby Eaton
* Bobby Walker
* Booker T
* Brad Armstrong
* Bret Hart
* The British Bulldog
* Buff Bagwell
* Chavo Guerrero, Jr.
* Chris Adams
* Chris Benoit
* Chris Jericho
* Curt Hennig
* Damien
* Dave Taylor
* Dean Malenko
* Diamond Dallas Page
* Eddie Guerrero
* El Dandy
* Ernest Miller
* Fit Finlay
* The Giant
* Greg Valentine
* Hector Garza
* Hollywood Hogan
* Hugh Morrus
* Jack Boot
* Jerry Flynn
* Jim Duggan
* Jim Neidhart
* Jim Nord
* Jim Powers
* Joey Maggs
* Johnny Grunge
* Johnny Swinger
* Juventud Guerrera
* Kendall Windham
* Kenny Kaos
* Kevin Nash
* Konnan
* Lanny Poffo
* La Parka
* Lenny Lane
* Lex Luger
* Lodi
* Louie Spicolli
* Mark Starr
* Marty Jannetty
* Masahiro Chono
* Mean Mike
* Meng
* Michael Wallstreet
* Mike Enos
* Mortis
* Norman Smiley
* Perry Saturn
* Psicosis
* Randy Savage
* Raven
* Ray Traylor
* The Renegade
* Rey Mysterio, Jr.
* Ric Flair
* Rick Fuller
* Rick Martel
* Rick Steiner
* Roadblock
* Rob Ruckus
* Rocco Rock
* Roddy Piper
* Scott Armstrong
* Scott Hall
* Scott Norton
* Scott Steiner
* Scotty Riggs
* Sick Boy
* Silver King
* Steve Armstrong
* Steve McMichael
* Steven Regal
* Stevie Ray
* Super Calo
* Syxx
* Tough Tom
* Ultimo Dragon
* Van Hammer
* Villano IV
* Villano V
* Vincent
* Wayne Bloom
* Wrath
* Yuji Nagata


Have fun.

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Old 09-23-2016, 11:07 AM   #2
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No more Wrestling. I would abolish all titles. I would make the show 3 hours of Medusa getting fist fucked by the Diamond Doll. In the middle of the ring.
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Old 09-23-2016, 11:30 AM   #3
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I say "What the fuck happened last night? Make Hogan job CLEAN at the next PPV."
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Old 09-23-2016, 05:23 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Big Vic View Post
I say "What the fuck happened last night? Make Hogan job CLEAN at the next PPV."
Hogan is the big problem, but how do you get around it? What do you say to Hogan to get him to see the bigger picture and let him know that he will be valued until his contract expires or whatever?

Hogan signed a brand new contract around the middle of 1998, I believe, so it's reasonable to assume that Hogan's paranoia and desire to position himself as an invaluable star would be running quite high. Hogan felt the need to muddy the waters with Sting a bit. How do you make Hogan realize that he can take a step back, build up good will by making guys like Sting and still be extremely valuable to professional wrestling? Is it even possible?

I think until that new deal is inked, Hogan's not in the mood to really allow anyone to get pure shine. You have to lay out plans for the guy and possibly even get him signed to his new deal, which he isn't likely signing unless he has creative control. This is where it gets really tough. Can you convince Hogan to get bonuses for every fall he takes that increases the merchandise sales of individuals within the next three months? Could you create some sort of clause that encourages Hogan to step out of the immediate spotlight and see the value in putting others over and them getting as hot as possible, but that you can also use to highlight how important he still is and that you're not going to job him out needlessly because you want that Hogan hegemony to be worth something for when he does lose?
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Old 09-23-2016, 05:24 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanso Amore View Post
No more Wrestling. I would abolish all titles. I would make the show 3 hours of Medusa getting fist fucked by the Diamond Doll. In the middle of the ring.
You're an idiot. Switch it around to Medusa fist-fucking Diamond Doll and you have a winning recipe.
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Old 09-23-2016, 07:32 PM   #6
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Buff Bagwell gets a huge babyface push immediately
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Old 09-23-2016, 07:38 PM   #7
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He was coming off a win against Luger at Starrcade...
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Old 09-23-2016, 07:38 PM   #8
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Judy Bagwell came later in 1998, didn't she?
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Old 09-23-2016, 07:42 PM   #9
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You're an idiot. Switch it around to Medusa fist-fucking Diamond Doll and you have a winning recipe.
Medusa has more of the frame to handle the abuse,
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Old 09-23-2016, 08:05 PM   #10
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Judy Bagwell came later in 1998, didn't she?
Wasn't it 1999?
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Old 09-23-2016, 08:15 PM   #11
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Quote:
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Wasn't it 1999?
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Medusa has more of the frame to handle the abuse,
I stand corrected on both counts.
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Old 09-23-2016, 08:15 PM   #12
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I was thinking of wheelchair Buff.
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Old 09-23-2016, 08:31 PM   #13
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Think long term and do something in the vein of what Vince Russo tried with the New Blood vs Millionaires Club feud. Put a bigger focus on newer and younger stars while the influence of older stars gradually moves away.

The goal being within a few years to have a Starcade act as a "passing of the torch" moment.

Hogan, Nash, and a few others could be big obstacles but if they want to wreck havoc on the plans, let them leave and hurt whatever the WWF is trying to do or just use them a lot less and "eat" most of what's left on their guaranteed salaries.
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Old 09-23-2016, 08:44 PM   #14
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How do you handle the nWo after Starrcade? Do you disband the group once the serpent's head is cut off? Is there in-fighting? Or do they remain a strong force?
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Old 09-23-2016, 09:01 PM   #15
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Follow a similar route that led to Hogan-Goldberg on Nitro for the title but have it be where the group's influence on WCW ends. They still splinter with the Wolfpak vs nWo Classic storyline but don't hog as much focus nor reform like was done when it ended (and later with nWo 2000). Also Nash not being the one to win World War III in '98.
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Old 09-24-2016, 02:56 AM   #16
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Do you think Scott Hall was the man to win World War III in 1997? When I think about what WCW could have done at that point in time, it's kind of hard, because Hall's title shot looms over everything like a bad smell. It's not that I don't like Hall or anything, but it feels like he should be focused on Larry Zbysko, nWo fallout, etc. Maybe he could get one title shot and then start the splintering with Hogan asking Hall if he really thought he could beat Sting when Hogan couldn't?
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Old 09-24-2016, 02:58 AM   #17
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Another question: Who do you think Bret Hart's first match should have been against in WCW? He ended up wrestling Ric Flair at Souled Out, which is a very good match, from memory, but felt weird since Flair was back as a face (and it honestly feels a bit like Hogan sabotage).

How was Curt Hennig performing at this point in time? Hart vs. Hennig at Souled Out as a "special attraction" type deal keeps popping into my head as a good match for Hart.
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Old 09-26-2016, 10:17 AM   #18
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This is a good one (and I have one of my own shortly I'd like your input on). Obviously for the podcast we've been covering 1998 in our Monday Night War Timeline, so having my memory refreshed on this exact period is timely.

WCW peaked in March. Hogan cockblocked the nWo split at the start of the year, which was the plan, and just did the angle with Savage.

Hogan had lost in a shitty way to Sting at Starrcade. He was without a contract and ended up playing that out and teasing he was going to jump for six months in negotiations. After Starrcade, it was clear Hogan was going to hold a gun to the company's head as long as he could, and he undermined anybody else that was champion the entire year.

If it was because Hogan's creative control clause was the difference maker (and it likely was, although his general influence clearly surpassed a clause about his own character in reality), then start of 1998 is the perfect time to negotiate that out. WWF was strapped for cash, they'd paid out the arse for Tyson, and their entire direction was moving towards Austin, Hogan couldn't be top dog there. In essence, it was a great time for WCW to strongarm Hogan, but they didn't.

Take him off TV until he signs, and sign him if he agrees to take out creative control. If he doesn't, so long, Hogan wasn't going to make that money anywhere else, he'd have re-signed, I'm sure of it. Maybe even bump his money, it'd be worth it not to be doomed to his rule in 1998.

The Wolfpac/Hollywood split was good, I'd have done it right after Starrcade if I could. The issue is you risk overshadowing new champion Sting and new signing Bret Hart.

Sting was always more about the chase than the catch, and when the lay of the land was SO much about the nWo and nothing else was prepared, what can you do with him that doesn't feel secondary? Sting has to be positioned as the puppeteer to the nWo demise, not the guy who happens to be in the ring with them as they crumble.

Bret came in with Flair, and they did great stuff together, but it felt out of place after the Starrcade results. Hennig at that point was a shell (though he did have an inspired run in 99), and I thought he iced Bret more than helped him. Honestly, Bret needed to work with Hogan early on. So I'd splinter off the feuds this way post-Starrcade:

*Hogan, pissed at Bret for his role in Starrcade, goes off with him for two months of build to a match at Superbrawl.

*Meanwhile, Kevin Nash assumes a leadership role and goes after Sting for the WCW Title.

Both nWo guys lose, which leads to tensions rising and fingers pointing. Sting Vs. Bret for the WCW Title feels big after that, as the nWo split can take effect with Hogan and Nash battling for members.

Underneath, you've got a few guys bubbling. Goldberg is the obvious one. If you don't change a thing about his ascension, he needs to beat a heel for the belt, meaning he either has to beat Hogan for it, or you build to his big win from someone else.

I'd be tempted to wait for Goldberg's title challenge at Starrcade 1998, but at the same time, he was a supernova, and sometimes it's hard to hold off when a guy is on the cusp, and sometimes waiting is a bad idea. Once they figure out Goldberg is the guy, whoever is holding the title has to lose it, or turn.

Which leads to an interesting point - does Sting, after he slays the nWo and splits them, go heel when he, the saviour of WCW, becomes secondary to Goldberg? Or does Bret beat Sting, go heel in the process, and you ramp Bret up as hot as you can for Goldberg when the time is right?

As an aside, one act I'd be dying to elevate mid-98 is Raven. I think there's a great story to the idea that, with the biggest force in wrestling, the nWo, finally falling to ruins and dividing, and WCW guys like Sting, Flair, Bret and Goldberg always acting as individuals, for the band of outcasts to suddenly be like a group of hyenas to pick up the bones.

Imagine a War Games blowoff to Hollywood Vs. Wolfpac. Hogan, Savage, Steiner and Hennig Vs. Nash, Hall, Konnan & one more (whoever you want in the group) - all eight guys laid out, exhausted from the definitive battle, the war over, when the Flock storms the cage, locks themselves in and picks the bones. Once the two nWo groups have the big fight, there is nowhere left to go in that story, so the Flock introduces a new element. And instead of a faction in the guise of either nWo, it's essentially an army dedicated to one leader - Raven, who you elevate to the top mix.





Crazy Like A Fox - The Definitive Chronicle of Brian Pillman 20 Years Later
**Featuring interviews with members of the Pillman family, Dave Meltzer, Kim Wood, Raven, Jim Cornette, Mark Madden, Shane Douglas, Mark Coleman, Alex Marvez, Les Thatcher and many more close friends and colleagues**
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Old 09-26-2016, 10:25 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Bad News Gertner View Post
Buff Bagwell gets a huge babyface push immediately
god did they fuck up bagwell so hard. Dude was dynamite at this time.
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Old 09-26-2016, 10:36 AM   #20
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wait, was this the one where hogan wouldn't let sting win clean and made them make it look like montreal screwjob?
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Old 09-26-2016, 10:37 AM   #21
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god did they fuck up bagwell so hard. Dude was dynamite at this time.
judy bagwell on a pole match, good times!
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Old 09-28-2016, 03:30 AM   #22
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This is a good one (and I have one of my own shortly I'd like your input on). Obviously for the podcast we've been covering 1998 in our Monday Night War Timeline, so having my memory refreshed on this exact period is timely.

WCW peaked in March. Hogan cockblocked the nWo split at the start of the year, which was the plan, and just did the angle with Savage.

Hogan had lost in a shitty way to Sting at Starrcade. He was without a contract and ended up playing that out and teasing he was going to jump for six months in negotiations. After Starrcade, it was clear Hogan was going to hold a gun to the company's head as long as he could, and he undermined anybody else that was champion the entire year.

If it was because Hogan's creative control clause was the difference maker (and it likely was, although his general influence clearly surpassed a clause about his own character in reality), then start of 1998 is the perfect time to negotiate that out. WWF was strapped for cash, they'd paid out the arse for Tyson, and their entire direction was moving towards Austin, Hogan couldn't be top dog there. In essence, it was a great time for WCW to strongarm Hogan, but they didn't.

Take him off TV until he signs, and sign him if he agrees to take out creative control. If he doesn't, so long, Hogan wasn't going to make that money anywhere else, he'd have re-signed, I'm sure of it. Maybe even bump his money, it'd be worth it not to be doomed to his rule in 1998.

The Wolfpac/Hollywood split was good, I'd have done it right after Starrcade if I could. The issue is you risk overshadowing new champion Sting and new signing Bret Hart.

Sting was always more about the chase than the catch, and when the lay of the land was SO much about the nWo and nothing else was prepared, what can you do with him that doesn't feel secondary? Sting has to be positioned as the puppeteer to the nWo demise, not the guy who happens to be in the ring with them as they crumble.

Bret came in with Flair, and they did great stuff together, but it felt out of place after the Starrcade results. Hennig at that point was a shell (though he did have an inspired run in 99), and I thought he iced Bret more than helped him. Honestly, Bret needed to work with Hogan early on. So I'd splinter off the feuds this way post-Starrcade:

*Hogan, pissed at Bret for his role in Starrcade, goes off with him for two months of build to a match at Superbrawl.

*Meanwhile, Kevin Nash assumes a leadership role and goes after Sting for the WCW Title.

Both nWo guys lose, which leads to tensions rising and fingers pointing. Sting Vs. Bret for the WCW Title feels big after that, as the nWo split can take effect with Hogan and Nash battling for members.

Underneath, you've got a few guys bubbling. Goldberg is the obvious one. If you don't change a thing about his ascension, he needs to beat a heel for the belt, meaning he either has to beat Hogan for it, or you build to his big win from someone else.

I'd be tempted to wait for Goldberg's title challenge at Starrcade 1998, but at the same time, he was a supernova, and sometimes it's hard to hold off when a guy is on the cusp, and sometimes waiting is a bad idea. Once they figure out Goldberg is the guy, whoever is holding the title has to lose it, or turn.

Which leads to an interesting point - does Sting, after he slays the nWo and splits them, go heel when he, the saviour of WCW, becomes secondary to Goldberg? Or does Bret beat Sting, go heel in the process, and you ramp Bret up as hot as you can for Goldberg when the time is right?

As an aside, one act I'd be dying to elevate mid-98 is Raven. I think there's a great story to the idea that, with the biggest force in wrestling, the nWo, finally falling to ruins and dividing, and WCW guys like Sting, Flair, Bret and Goldberg always acting as individuals, for the band of outcasts to suddenly be like a group of hyenas to pick up the bones.

Imagine a War Games blowoff to Hollywood Vs. Wolfpac. Hogan, Savage, Steiner and Hennig Vs. Nash, Hall, Konnan & one more (whoever you want in the group) - all eight guys laid out, exhausted from the definitive battle, the war over, when the Flock storms the cage, locks themselves in and picks the bones. Once the two nWo groups have the big fight, there is nowhere left to go in that story, so the Flock introduces a new element. And instead of a faction in the guise of either nWo, it's essentially an army dedicated to one leader - Raven, who you elevate to the top mix.
That is beautiful. The booking you guys do on your rebooking a year podcasts is tremendous. I like just about everything there, and the Hogan vs. Bret thing is something you convinced me of. I had this idea that Hogan -- the broken leader of the renegade faction -- should put over at least one other WCW guy to emphasize the point that the nWo is losing power. Bret is the most logical choice.

I had no clue Hogan wasn't under a contract at this point. Strong-arming him was definitely the way to go. Even if Vince did wrangle up the cash to pay for a scorned Hogan, what was going to happen "up north?" He was going to beat Austin? That'd kill them dead. Hogan could have been Austin fodder, but Hogan's ego would have still been bruised. WCW was in a real good position there, so it's weird that power got surrendered so quickly. Listening to the podcasts, ratings seemed to actually go up after this for a little while, so I guess maybe there was this idea that Hogan was legitimately the reason for the bubble blowing up, but he was obviously the reason it was going to burst too.

Building up a few months to Bret vs. Sting would have been a good move, and I can imagine that as being good opposition to something around Mania time. The obvious rise was Goldberg, and you do need a heel for him to beat. You go on to mention Raven in a different context, but could he have been a guy to potentially pick the corpses of Sting and Hart to pick up the World Title to drop it to Goldberg, or is that moving too many steps too quickly?

Sting wasn't exactly the biggest draw as a babyface outside his '97 chase. Maybe turning him heel would have seemed like the most logical thing in the world after he's done with Hart? "The only thing that's for sure about Sting, is that nothing is for sure." It seems counter-intuitive to imagine him as a heel since so much of his work is definitively babyface, but that's might largely be a product of how the wheels kept spinning in WCW.

I'm a fan of the Benoit vs. Raven feud. It seems like the pay-off there would have been putting Benoit over in a Cage Match or something, but do you protect Raven if you're pushing him up to the top. He feels like a guy who could take a loss to Benoit and almost set him up as the pure babyface rival to his darkness. If Sting is heel and Raven is approaching the top, then having Benoit elevated on that face side helps things. He could have that lose mentor/student relationship with Bret Hart, and if they went into Canada like they should have when they had Bret, then Benoit could have kept that going.
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Old 09-28-2016, 03:38 AM   #23
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This was also the year where Chris Jericho turned heel and became that wonderful conspiracy victim character everybody so fondly remembers. Booker T would win the World Television Title around the start of the year, and there's a part of me that wants heel Jericho to be in that mix. It seems blasphemous to rob people of 1998 WCW Cruiserweight Champion Jericho, but Jericho as a heel heavyweight champion gaining traction at the start of the year could have been excellent as well. He'd eventually end up at that point, but it may have slightly changed perception of him, even within the company.
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