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View Poll Results: Do you like the Shield?
Yay 58 87.88%
Nay 1 1.52%
Meh 7 10.61%
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Old 05-23-2013, 09:05 AM   #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gertner View Post
I'll state this for the last time because I'm convinced people are retarded: if you are a smaller wrestler then you had better have personality coming out of your ass to be a top level guy. Who in that list can you say that about? Exactly. Check and mate.
Daniel Bryan doesn't have personality?
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Old 05-23-2013, 09:05 AM   #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gertner View Post
I'll state this for the last time because I'm convinced people are retarded: if you are a smaller wrestler then you had better have personality coming out of your ass to be a top level guy. Who in that list can you say that about? Exactly. Check and mate.
Just like Bret Hart. The best there is, was and all that.
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Old 05-23-2013, 09:36 AM   #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Vic View Post
Daniel Bryan doesn't have personality?
Again, I stated who on that list has the personality to be a top level guy?Bryan is perfect where he is. Not a top level guy.
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Old 05-23-2013, 09:38 AM   #164
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I'm not even convinced Ziggler is a top level guy. He's just there because the company doesn't have anybody else.
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Old 05-23-2013, 09:41 AM   #165
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I think Spirit Squad Nicky would totally kick the poo poo outta Dolph Ziggler. He was way more artful in the combat we call the rassle!
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Old 05-23-2013, 09:43 AM   #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathtotheSwiss View Post
My favorite wrestlers and some of the most popular and iconic ones of all time are:

Ric Flair 6'1 who got his super-hero vibe from being insanely charismatic and also by "peacocking"

Scott Hall who was a big guy and great on the mic' and fits your criteria.

Diamond Dallas Page who was just barely meets the criteria and always came off to me like a smaller guy who was just amazing.

Mick Foley who wasn't so tall even when he wasn't hunched over and was more fat than anything even in his best shape (shapes?).

Taz was a midget but I loved him and how he was booked in ECW.

Giant was great and had fun matches that felt big and was okay on the mic, never got into him as the Big Show.

Steve Austin and The Rock, don't need to explain these.

Randy Savage who was 6'2 and under 240 but always looked awesome and bigger than life and was believable against Hogan. Genius on the mic too.

Shawn Michaels who made up for his size by being crazy talented and charismatic.

Roddy Piper was bigger than life and great in the ring.

I think you're right about "bigger than life" characters being important, but it doesn't necessarily mean someone who just looks big and athletic. Having a look period or at least making up for it by being a living cartoon like DDP or Flair. Guys who have been way way over had it all, Hogan had a look, charisma and great booking, Austin and Rock were the same.

Of the new generation we have had a few people to fit the bill and I know you'll disagree with me on a few of these. Cena has a great look and unbelievable strength, can go in the ring, is booked like a monster most days (wolverine healing ability), can be great on the mic and sells tickets and merchandise. Batista had the look, sold the merchandise, had the ability to be good on the mic as a heel (Hollywood Batista). CM Punk has a great look, is great in the ring and on the mic and sells a lot of merch, probably pulls in a lot of tickets too.

Nearly everyone else I can think of is missing some aspect, be it that they're generic looking, lack charisma or whatever. There aren't many total packages. Ryback has no charisma and so is forced to yell a lot and most of it is incomprehensible, but he looks great and he definitely should be used and given a shot to get better. Jeff Hardy had the look and the talent, but sucked balls on the mic, sold crazy amounts of merchandise though. Edge without his beard and his sex-life was really just a guy who was good in the ring and had a finisher that should not have worked as well as it did on big guys.

I could go on but I won't...
Exactly. All those guys mentioned if they weren't big had something special about them. That"it" factor that drew fans to their t.v's. Heath Slater for as goofy as he is and as much as I love him entertains me greatly, nothing more than a low card guy and he's pretty small. He does have the special ability to pretty much lose every match, yet still get over. His run with the legends was hilarious and people enjoy seeing him get beat, which in itself is a great quality. Santino has the same thing.
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Old 05-23-2013, 09:45 AM   #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shisen Kopf View Post
I think Spirit Squad Nicky would totally kick the poo poo outta Dolph Ziggler. He was way more artful in the combat we call the rassle!
He was even better as Kerwin White's caddy.

.......gonna admit this, I was a huge Spirit Squad fan. Soooo obnoxious.
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Old 05-23-2013, 09:48 AM   #168
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Spirit Squad was great. They should bring them back.
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Old 05-23-2013, 09:55 AM   #169
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Them dancing in the ring was hilarious.

DB could definitely be a top level guy not THE guy, but up there.
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Old 05-23-2013, 09:56 AM   #170
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I liked the Mean Street Posse.
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Old 05-23-2013, 09:56 AM   #171
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Like them but I don't understand the talk about these guys not being Main Event timbre. Its been 6 months into their WWE career, and I don't know if they'll do it or flop if given that opportunity, but it seems quite premature and joyless to even be considering something like that. Just enjoying the ride while it lasts.
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Old 05-23-2013, 09:57 AM   #172
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Remember when it was 2011, Kevin Nash came back and many were talking about having him reform the NWO?

LOL. Silly people. The Shield is much better than what another WWE/NWO group in the year 2011 would've ever been.
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Old 05-23-2013, 10:31 AM   #173
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I wish Nash stayed a bit longer
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Old 05-23-2013, 01:24 PM   #174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy Edgar View Post
Like them but I don't understand the talk about these guys not being Main Event timbre. Its been 6 months into their WWE career, and I don't know if they'll do it or flop if given that opportunity, but it seems quite premature and joyless to even be considering something like that. Just enjoying the ride while it lasts.
Seriously. I only made this thread because I enjoy watching The Shield. I've never even considered any of their potential as main eventers.
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Old 05-23-2013, 01:26 PM   #175
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Not knocking any of the discussion going on in here, by the way. Just surprised by it. Carry on.
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Old 05-23-2013, 01:28 PM   #176
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Are you really surprised?
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Old 05-23-2013, 02:02 PM   #177
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Ha, no.
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Old 05-23-2013, 02:03 PM   #178
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Yeah, I really enjoyed watching them go Monday.
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Old 05-23-2013, 02:05 PM   #179
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Monday was also my favorite Seth Rollins performance. I like how he was sorta the 'cheerleader' for the team, and I also liked how he kept trying to play to Daniel Bryan being the "weak link". Bryan did a great job of getting that feeling across, too. He really seemed amped up.

I might go back and watch that match again, and that hardly happens anymore for me.
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Old 05-23-2013, 02:08 PM   #180
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If you like em so much why don't you marry them?
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Old 05-23-2013, 02:13 PM   #181
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Because Jay Briscoe would shoot me.
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Old 05-23-2013, 04:49 PM   #182
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Quote:
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Them dancing in the ring was hilarious.

DB could definitely be a top level guy not THE guy, but up there.
I think what Gertner is saying is top level as in a guy you could plug into the main event at WrestleMania and It would work. Which I think should be the same standard for your main champion. He could be a World Champion. Hell he was a World Champion BEFORE he was interesting as a character. But the standards for a World Champion are almost non-existent. Nowhere near the standards for the last match at Mania.
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Old 05-23-2013, 04:52 PM   #183
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I'll state this for the last time because I'm convinced people are retarded: if you are a smaller wrestler then you had better have personality coming out of your ass to be a top level guy. Who in that list can you say that about?
Fandango.

Johnny Curtis could be the face of the company if handled right. He's amazing.
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Old 05-23-2013, 04:55 PM   #184
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Other than him... Probably no one. Damien Sandow is pretty incredible. I don't know if I could see him as a long term headlining heel though for some reason.
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Old 05-23-2013, 05:24 PM   #185
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Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
Fandango.

Johnny Curtis could be the face of the company if handled right. He's amazing.
Fandango, or Johnny Curtis?
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Old 05-23-2013, 05:58 PM   #186
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I think it's going to get to a point where the character Fandango is holding Johnny Curtis back.
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Old 05-23-2013, 08:03 PM   #187
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They grew on me.
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Old 05-23-2013, 08:49 PM   #188
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Fandango will eventually transition into Johnny Curtis and unify the titles world.
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Old 05-24-2013, 12:55 AM   #189
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Originally Posted by Gertner View Post
Fandango, or Johnny Curtis?
Well... Johnny Curtis.

It probably won't happen with the Fandango gimmick. lol
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Old 05-24-2013, 03:05 AM   #190
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Funny how everyone keeps bagging on Seth's lack of mic skills, but no one mentions (or even knows because they missed his short NXT stint) that Reigns is HORRIBLE on the stick. He makes Rollins sound like Ric Flair by comparison. However, the whole "I only speak when I need to" vibe has done the perfect job of hiding that well.

And that's one of the things that helps The Shield to work. They hide any flaw that would have hampered them individually AND ensured they all get the opportunity to work on that detriment. Where they were at the introduction of them as The Shield, if they were called up individually:

-Roman Reigns "looks the shit", and is okay in shorts bursts in the ring, since he was poised to have squash matches to make him look legit and intimidating. However, when you have so many other people doing that same "oh, look at me, I'm a big powerhouse!!!" thing right now (Ryback, Big E, Mark Henry, Big Show, Sheamus, then also potentially Mason Ryan, Bronson, what's left of Ascention, etc...) it would have been easy for him to be lost in the shuffle and fall off the planet like so much Zeke Jackson. On the mic, he seemed more uncomfortable than David Otunga was during the pre-Nexus NXT stint, which isn't good when you're supposed to be coming off as smug and overconfident. He would have needed a mouthpice, or at the very least, a very vocal tag team partner to gain any traction outside of the "me too" big man schtick.

-Seth Rollins, who again gets shit on because he isn't setting the world on fire with his promo ability, is actually pretty good considering where he is and how long he's been there. He doesn't quite have the ability to instantly hook you with charisma just by being there, but he can draw you in. He can go in the ring, but I'm convinced that if he didn't happen to look similar to CM Punk and kinda got a shot from striking while that iron was white hot, he would have been one of those guys who languished around jerking curtains and pulling Superstars duty on the main roster and been a tremendous waste of time and talent with no discernable direction.

-Dean Ambrose has the opposite charismatic ability of Rollins in that you can instantly see he's special. He has the indy cred of being a natural, but of course that would work serve to hamper him since that makes him a) and indy darling, and garners instant hatred from snobby fans who think that such hype should never ever happen because unapologetic fanboys who want to see the new guy in the WWE main event picture RIGHT NAO!!1! turn them off from even wanting their name brought up, and b) they weren't "home grown" by WWE, so they allow a lot of that buzz to dissapate instead of saying "hey, we got a good thing landing on our lap, let's roll with it and see what happens". With all the Youtube clips of very talented promos, a massive nod from Mick Foley AND William Regal for his talent, and the fact that he has a grasp on not just ringwork, but psychology to boot... WWE would have likely saw fit to repackage this guy as something goofy (for him) and not allow him to show much of that. People seeing him for the first time would think he's a boring asshole who can wrestle good, but has the personality of a shoe through no fault of his own. He might have lucked up on something (injury, accident, Diva's poll) to capitalise on it one day, but that day wouldn't have come soon enough.

Collectively, however, they all fill in the gaps. The gimmick of them being "as a cohesive unit whose egos aren't bigger than the collective group" is actually better personified as them being one perfect superstar. Reigns brings the brutal power move muscle; Rollins flys around the ring, Ambrose takes opponents to the mat. Their "jump in" promos give Ambrose the opportunity to showcase what he can do, and allows Rollins and especially Reigns to work on talking. Reigns brings the intimidation that the other two wouldn't neccessarily garner alone. Ambrose has the "it" factor the other two don't, and Rollins is somewhere between the two- briding the gap by looking more fearsome than Dean, but exuding more charisma than Roman. It's a good balance and a unique way for them to grow into legit singles competetors down the road by compensating for and overcoming their weaknesses with time and effort and being afforded that time and effort because of their unique position within the company right now.
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Old 05-24-2013, 06:52 AM   #191
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I wish Nash stayed forever
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Old 05-24-2013, 09:09 AM   #192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathtotheSwiss View Post
When I watched regularly I used to complain about how there weren't enough tag teams and stables and now I'm pretty happy with what I see. They're interesting even though I have no point of reference for who they are, why they wear D-lo style chest protectors and what their motivation is. I saw them fight Kane, Bryan and Kofi and I thought it was the greatest thing ever. I'd love to see all six of them in a TLC match, think it'd be crazy over like the E&C VS. Hardy Boyz Ladder match and subsequent Dudley feud etc.
E+C and Dudleys were tag teams in the 00's. They gave these guys one hell of a push, but no serious tag teams to fight. They can't fight Team Hell No every single PPV.
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Old 05-24-2013, 11:12 AM   #193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Guycott View Post
Funny how everyone keeps bagging on Seth's lack of mic skills, but no one mentions (or even knows because they missed his short NXT stint) that Reigns is HORRIBLE on the stick. He makes Rollins sound like Ric Flair by comparison. However, the whole "I only speak when I need to" vibe has done the perfect job of hiding that well.

And that's one of the things that helps The Shield to work. They hide any flaw that would have hampered them individually AND ensured they all get the opportunity to work on that detriment. Where they were at the introduction of them as The Shield, if they were called up individually:

-Roman Reigns "looks the shit", and is okay in shorts bursts in the ring, since he was poised to have squash matches to make him look legit and intimidating. However, when you have so many other people doing that same "oh, look at me, I'm a big powerhouse!!!" thing right now (Ryback, Big E, Mark Henry, Big Show, Sheamus, then also potentially Mason Ryan, Bronson, what's left of Ascention, etc...) it would have been easy for him to be lost in the shuffle and fall off the planet like so much Zeke Jackson. On the mic, he seemed more uncomfortable than David Otunga was during the pre-Nexus NXT stint, which isn't good when you're supposed to be coming off as smug and overconfident. He would have needed a mouthpice, or at the very least, a very vocal tag team partner to gain any traction outside of the "me too" big man schtick.

-Seth Rollins, who again gets shit on because he isn't setting the world on fire with his promo ability, is actually pretty good considering where he is and how long he's been there. He doesn't quite have the ability to instantly hook you with charisma just by being there, but he can draw you in. He can go in the ring, but I'm convinced that if he didn't happen to look similar to CM Punk and kinda got a shot from striking while that iron was white hot, he would have been one of those guys who languished around jerking curtains and pulling Superstars duty on the main roster and been a tremendous waste of time and talent with no discernable direction.

-Dean Ambrose has the opposite charismatic ability of Rollins in that you can instantly see he's special. He has the indy cred of being a natural, but of course that would work serve to hamper him since that makes him a) and indy darling, and garners instant hatred from snobby fans who think that such hype should never ever happen because unapologetic fanboys who want to see the new guy in the WWE main event picture RIGHT NAO!!1! turn them off from even wanting their name brought up, and b) they weren't "home grown" by WWE, so they allow a lot of that buzz to dissapate instead of saying "hey, we got a good thing landing on our lap, let's roll with it and see what happens". With all the Youtube clips of very talented promos, a massive nod from Mick Foley AND William Regal for his talent, and the fact that he has a grasp on not just ringwork, but psychology to boot... WWE would have likely saw fit to repackage this guy as something goofy (for him) and not allow him to show much of that. People seeing him for the first time would think he's a boring asshole who can wrestle good, but has the personality of a shoe through no fault of his own. He might have lucked up on something (injury, accident, Diva's poll) to capitalise on it one day, but that day wouldn't have come soon enough.

Collectively, however, they all fill in the gaps. The gimmick of them being "as a cohesive unit whose egos aren't bigger than the collective group" is actually better personified as them being one perfect superstar. Reigns brings the brutal power move muscle; Rollins flys around the ring, Ambrose takes opponents to the mat. Their "jump in" promos give Ambrose the opportunity to showcase what he can do, and allows Rollins and especially Reigns to work on talking. Reigns brings the intimidation that the other two wouldn't
neccessarily garner alone. Ambrose has the "it" factor the other two don't, and Rollins is somewhere between the two- briding the gap by looking more fearsome than Dean, but exuding more charisma than Roman. It's a good balance and a unique way for them to grow into legit singles competetors down the road by compensatin
g for and overcoming their weaknesses with time and effort and being afforded that time and effort because of
their unique position within the company right now.


I've already stated numerous time that Reign's mic skills suck and posted a video of such. There is nothing special about this group at all and it's gonna result in a failed face push for one and a complete waste of time for this whole thing.
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Old 05-24-2013, 11:13 AM   #194
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Reigns doesn't need mic skills. He just needs to roar and he'll be a future hall of famer. The others can carry his bags.
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Old 05-24-2013, 11:37 AM   #195
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Reigns, Ambrose, and Rollins will all go into the Hall of Fame together, and they will throw every other Hall of Famer out because those people will be useless in comparison
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Old 05-24-2013, 11:48 AM   #196
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scatterbrain28 View Post
E+C and Dudleys were tag teams in the 00's. They gave these guys one hell of a push, but no serious tag teams to fight. They can't fight Team Hell No every single PPV.
The Terri Invitational Tournament that made them and the Hardy Boyz stars was in 1999. They pretty much split up in 2001.
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Old 05-24-2013, 11:54 AM   #197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gertner View Post
I've already stated numerous time that Reign's mic skills suck and posted a video of such. There is nothing special about this group at all and it's gonna result in a failed face push for one and a complete waste of time for this whole thing.
They remind me of Team RECK without the Kurt Angle type.
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Old 05-24-2013, 11:56 AM   #198
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The Acolytes, Hollys and Too Cool were all big around that time as well.
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Old 05-24-2013, 11:56 AM   #199
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathtotheSwiss View Post
They remind me of Team RECK without the Kurt Angle type.
That reference just went way over my head
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Old 05-24-2013, 11:57 AM   #200
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They remind me of Team RECK without the Kurt Angle type.
<3 Team RECK <3
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