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Old 03-25-2010, 05:03 PM   #521
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Kano View Post
DHARMA were part of a chain of events that lead to what we are at now. Their entire existence is what bought Oceanic 815 to the Island, as well as being another group of people bought to the Island as part of Jacob's overall message and plan. Without them, nothing would be what it is now. They are part of the big picture, like everyone and everything else.

I mean if you back track to what we thought was a massive mystery and importance when we were watching season 1, the hatch was one of those things, when really, it was something so much smaller than so many other things. I still get pissed off when the season 1 finale ended with just the lid coming off.
ok, now it's actually starting to make sense because I forgot Jacob has been watching Jack and co since they were born.

So it does make sense that Jacob knew of the chain of events that would happen to cause Oceanic to land. But here's my question now, when do you think Jacob put this whole plan into action? That's crazy to even think about
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Old 03-25-2010, 05:07 PM   #522
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Kano View Post
DHARMA were part of a chain of events that lead to what we are at now. Their entire existence is what bought Oceanic 815 to the Island, as well as being another group of people bought to the Island as part of Jacob's overall message and plan. Without them, nothing would be what it is now. They are part of the big picture, like everyone and everything else.

I mean if you back track to what we thought was a massive mystery and importance when we were watching season 1, the hatch was one of those things, when really, it was something so much smaller than so many other things. I still get pissed off when the season 1 finale ended with just the lid coming off.
Yeah, this is pretty much along the lines I was thinking.

Dharma were brought to the island to do their experiments, eventually tapping into a pocket of energy that would require a button to be pressed every 108 minutes. Desmond was then brought to the island to ensure that he would miss pushing the button, thus causing 815 to crash.

I wonder though, if everyone that came to the island was touched by Jacob before arriving as our main characters have been. Or is there something overtly special about this latest batch of candidates that made Jacob take the trip. And how did he make those trips off island anyway!?
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Old 03-25-2010, 05:19 PM   #523
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Jacob had to be watching every single person he wanted to bring to that island I think. Well at least the important ones. I mean, there was a lot of Dharma and Others and most were probably just pawns that had no significance whether they were there or not.

But yea, how far does this whole plan go back
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Old 03-25-2010, 05:26 PM   #524
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Blows my mind to think this show was all about survival and such when it first started, and freaky shit in the jungle. And now we've come to time travel, atomic bombs, guys who don't age and shape shifting.

Amazing how far it's all come.
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Old 03-25-2010, 05:38 PM   #525
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Yeah. I remember the days of the first season... this is totally not what I signed on for when I started to watch the show, but I'm enjoying the ride.
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Old 03-25-2010, 05:39 PM   #526
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I remember thinking Locke was some pedophile old man at first because of his interactions with Walt.
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Old 03-25-2010, 05:41 PM   #527
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loose Cannon View Post
ok, now it's actually starting to make sense because I forgot Jacob has been watching Jack and co since they were born.

So it does make sense that Jacob knew of the chain of events that would happen to cause Oceanic to land. But here's my question now, when do you think Jacob put this whole plan into action? That's crazy to even think about
But how does it "make sense" that Jacob would know the exact sequence of events? Can he see the future? If so, why bother writing all those names on the wall/lighthouse dial if he knew that the only ones he really needed were Shepherd, Ford, Kwon, Reyes, etc.
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Old 03-25-2010, 06:19 PM   #528
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Hmm....Massive pockets of energy under island....evil perhaps?
gates of hell perhaps?
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Old 03-25-2010, 06:20 PM   #529
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if the finale of this show doesnt turn into DOOM ima be pissed
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Old 03-25-2010, 11:23 PM   #530
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanso View Post
Hmm....Massive pockets of energy under island....evil perhaps?
Yeah the pockets of energy are still very much a big mystery. Faraday I think it was said that the energy pocket at The Swan site was hundreds of thousands times more powerful than that of the one under The Orchid, and that one had the power of time travel!

I had read about the Vile Vortices years ago since I am into the paranormal, and they are about 12 supposed areas around the globe that are said to contain geological anomalies, Bermuda Triangle type shit. It's a well chosen theory used in such a good way lol.

Vile Vortices refers to a claim that there are twelve roughly evenly distributed geographic areas that are alleged by Ivan Sanderson to have the same mysterious qualities[specify] popularly associated with the Bermuda Triangle.[citation needed]
The best-known of these are the Bermuda Triangle itself, the Devil's Sea near Japan and the South Atlantic Anomaly.[citation needed]
Paul Begg, in a series of articles for The Unexplained magazine, criticized the methodology of writers on the subject of unexplained disappearances. He checked original records of the alleged incidents. Often, he found, the ships which were claimed to have 'mysteriously disappeared' had a mundane reason for their loss (see for instance Raifuku Maru). Some were lost in storms, although the vortex writers would claim that the weather was fine at the time. In other cases, locations of losses were changed to fit the location of the vortex. Sometimes no record of the ship even existing in the first place was found.



If you look at where they are placed on the world grid, I think you'll find things fall into place with regard to one of them being halfway between Australia and the States (The Island) and another in Africa (the Exit point when one turns the frozen donkey wheel)

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Old 03-25-2010, 11:24 PM   #531
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loose Cannon View Post
ok, now it's actually starting to make sense because I forgot Jacob has been watching Jack and co since they were born.

So it does make sense that Jacob knew of the chain of events that would happen to cause Oceanic to land. But here's my question now, when do you think Jacob put this whole plan into action? That's crazy to even think about
I'm not so sure if it's a dead set plan. Although he has a plan, it's more a game of chess where the players also play their role based on their ultimate good or bad nature. A plan, a gamble, a leap of faith.

He has the ability to summon/bring people to the Island - we know that.

He has the ability to 'choose'/pass on a gift to those he chooses to bring to the Island - we know that.

But the people he chooses and others are what Faraday referred to as 'the variables'. They have the power through free choice to shape destiny. I don't think Jacob or the MIB are as all knowing or powerful as it is made out. The Island has some kind of authority power and rules that they both have to follow. I just don't think he know of all the events and exactly how they would occur, but that he had a hand in it.

It would seem that the earliest so far that he put his plan into action would be the arrival of The Black Rock/Richard, who would later go on to meet Locke in the 50's, as well as Faraday, bury the bomb, recruit Ben - which all sparked off multiple chains of events.
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Old 03-25-2010, 11:24 PM   #532
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XL View Post

I wonder though, if everyone that came to the island was touched by Jacob before arriving as our main characters have been. Or is there something overtly special about this latest batch of candidates that made Jacob take the trip. And how did he make those trips off island anyway!?
Yeah this kinda relates to the question I always used to think of, what kind of power/reason creates a point in time where all these chosen people are met in the right place at the right time for their arrival to happen?

Not too sure if he touched them all. Some of it must of been down to luck/fate/whatever, going back the variable idea. I would go as far to say the real 'Constant' is The Island and time/space/existence comes second to it. But if you go here and look at the 'names and bearings' section http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/The_Lighthouse you will see there are tons of names of characters who Jacob has been keeping an eye on.

But yeah, ultimately, these 6 are his chosen fighters I think. And he either used the Orchid Station, his own power or some other way to get off Island, must be part of his power.
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Old 03-25-2010, 11:30 PM   #533
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loose Cannon View Post
Jacob had to be watching every single person he wanted to bring to that island I think. Well at least the important ones. I mean, there was a lot of Dharma and Others and most were probably just pawns that had no significance whether they were there or not.

But yea, how far does this whole plan go back
I said it would've gone back to The Black Rock, but thinking over that....MIB was looking for his plan, his loophole AFTER Richard joined up with Jacob.

Which makes me think crazy ideas like --- If Jacob knew who was going to land on the Island - since he 'chose' them prior to that, then he must either have some kind of future seeing ability or be in tuned with the MIB in someway because MIB also chose Locke as his loophole - so one of them is akin to the other's thoughts? - maybe Jacob and MIB are the dark and the light making up one ultimate entity? fuck it, soooo much still to explain.
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Old 03-25-2010, 11:30 PM   #534
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XL View Post
But how does it "make sense" that Jacob would know the exact sequence of events? Can he see the future? If so, why bother writing all those names on the wall/lighthouse dial if he knew that the only ones he really needed were Shepherd, Ford, Kwon, Reyes, etc.
Because if he hadn't left the writings on the wall, Sawyer wouldn't of been able to have seen it. Even though it was with MIB, at that point he was told he was important, whatever that means yet, I don't know.

Its just a small example of what I mean, but I really can't articulate it very well at this point.

MY head is spinning.
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Old 03-26-2010, 10:24 AM   #535
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Kano View Post
Yeah the pockets of energy are still very much a big mystery. Faraday I think it was said that the energy pocket at The Swan site was hundreds of thousands times more powerful than that of the one under The Orchid, and that one had the power of time travel!

I had read about the Vile Vortices years ago since I am into the paranormal, and they are about 12 supposed areas around the globe that are said to contain geological anomalies, Bermuda Triangle type shit. It's a well chosen theory used in such a good way lol.

Vile Vortices refers to a claim that there are twelve roughly evenly distributed geographic areas that are alleged by Ivan Sanderson to have the same mysterious qualities[specify] popularly associated with the Bermuda Triangle.[citation needed]
The best-known of these are the Bermuda Triangle itself, the Devil's Sea near Japan and the South Atlantic Anomaly.[citation needed]
Paul Begg, in a series of articles for The Unexplained magazine, criticized the methodology of writers on the subject of unexplained disappearances. He checked original records of the alleged incidents. Often, he found, the ships which were claimed to have 'mysteriously disappeared' had a mundane reason for their loss (see for instance Raifuku Maru). Some were lost in storms, although the vortex writers would claim that the weather was fine at the time. In other cases, locations of losses were changed to fit the location of the vortex. Sometimes no record of the ship even existing in the first place was found.


If you look at where they are placed on the world grid, I think you'll find things fall into place with regard to one of them being halfway between Australia and the States (The Island) and another in Africa (the Exit point when one turns the frozen donkey wheel)

Do you remember the websites they would put up for the online puzzle? I think the Hanso Foundation one showed cities located in these areas on a map. I'm not sure though.
Last edited by RoXer; 03-26-2010 at 02:20 PM. Reason: I dunno wtf happened to my reply
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Old 03-26-2010, 12:28 PM   #536
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yea, that map is interesting. good find
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Old 03-26-2010, 02:22 PM   #537
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I also remember around that time that they were dissecting the meaning of the Dharma logo. Let me go find that post, it was years ago.
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Old 03-26-2010, 02:42 PM   #538
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Nvm, just looked at it now and it's not that significant.

It is hilarious to read our own thoughts on the show so early on though.
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Old 03-29-2010, 08:44 PM   #539
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Do you remember the websites they would put up for the online puzzle? I think the Hanso Foundation one showed cities located in these areas on a map. I'm not sure though.
Speaking of the Hanso foundation, did anyone catch the name of the slave ship captain?

Thought that was a nice touch.
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Old 03-29-2010, 10:39 PM   #540
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Magnus Hanso. Think he was mentioned at the auction Widmore bought the ship's log or whatever at, the one where Desmond turned up.

Magnus Hanso is the grandfather of Alvar Hanso, who funded the Dharma Initiative.
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Old 03-30-2010, 11:40 AM   #541
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Kano View Post
Magnus Hanso. Think he was mentioned at the auction Widmore bought the ship's log or whatever at, the one where Desmond turned up.

Magnus Hanso is the grandfather of Alvar Hanso, who funded the Dharma Initiative.
this.
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Old 03-30-2010, 12:44 PM   #542
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Plus he's mentioned on the blast door map as his resting place being next to the black rock.
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Old 03-30-2010, 01:42 PM   #543
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FYI I love the blast door map
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Old 03-30-2010, 07:14 PM   #544
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Sun and Jin die before the seasons end
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Old 03-30-2010, 10:05 PM   #545
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DESMOND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 03-31-2010, 07:54 AM   #546
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Knew it was Desmond from the moment Sawyer first saw the door a few episodes back.
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Old 03-31-2010, 08:46 AM   #547
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Yeah I called it in one of my posts on that week also.

How do they keep fucking making these episodes so god damn awesome....so good!

OK, so Widmore was asked by Jin HOW he was going to stop the MIB and Widmore's answer is Desmond. Not really sure how this will come to be - but I swear to GOD, when I was watching season 3, and Desmond was flashing through time, I said to everyone I was with and friends who watch the show that when it comes down to it, Desmond will be the key to saving everyone. I think it all goes back to when he turned the fail safe key, he is still unstuck in time, or at least has the ability to be in two places (realities/times lines) as everyone else. And right now, all I can think about is that he will convince or manage to get the John Locke in the alternate reality to make another plane trip. The Island grabs them both, and the two Locke's are merged, bringing back to life the John Locke we all know and love, and simply reducing the MIB to smoke or another form. I dunno. It's gonna be something big whatever Desmond gets up to.

But will he do it willingly? I believe he would/will if/once he is told about the situation. But Widmore is a fucking moron, cussing him down all the time, telling him in season 5 that the business of the island had nothing to do with him, little did he realise how significant he is.


I was also very pleased to see Mikhail, lol still manages to lose an eye.

Too bad for Sun getting shot, fortunately I don't give a fuck about her or that alternate timeline really, I mean its cool, but until we know the significance of it, its second priority right now.

But yeah, VERY GOOD episode, probably my second fav under The Substitute, 8/10.
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Old 03-31-2010, 09:17 AM   #548
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Yeah I'm the same about the sideways reality. I mean yeah it's interesting and all, and good to see some older characters back but what 's the point of it all. Right now it's just kind of at the same level as it was when you would see one of the losties in someone elses flashbacks.

Like "hey cool that's Sawyer walking into Christian and Ana Lucias car". Like now it's just "hey cool, Mikhail... so get back to the main timeline now"

Wondering what all the mirror stuff is about though. If there's any significance to it at all.
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Old 03-31-2010, 09:24 AM   #549
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There is, I watched Carlton Cuse and Damon Lindelof (sp?) on either Jimmy Kimmel or another show/interview say that the two realities are connected, and that we have actually seen enough to figure out what, but when it becomes more clear, there is something linking the two or something like that that will bring them together. At this point in time, the only guesses I got is Locke, in the new reality, been taken back to the current Island reality and that having some effect/brining him back to life, but it probably won't be ANYTHING like that.

And, also, HOLY FUCKING SHIT, I just saw this and I am freaking out like a proper fan boy geek prick shit twat fucking NEXT WEEKS IS GONNA BE SOOOO FUCKING EPIC..



Since season 2, Desmond has been one of my top fave characters, as well as Locke and Ben.
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Old 03-31-2010, 09:30 AM   #550
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Old 03-31-2010, 09:42 AM   #551
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I really like the actor who plays Keamy. He really plays the dickhead chracter perfectly
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Old 03-31-2010, 09:44 AM   #552
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I remember reading an article back when Series 4 had justt finished praising the Keamy character. Basically saying that while only a relatively minor bad guy in the scheme of things, he portrayed the evil that can exist brilliantly.
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Old 03-31-2010, 10:02 AM   #553
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He is also funny. When he told Mikhail to turn around as he was dying lol.
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Old 03-31-2010, 01:47 PM   #554
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I like the alternate reality. It is kind of showing the possibilities and how those people would have been connected even if they hadn't come to the island. Well, actually.. you have to think of it from this standpoint - If time travel is involved, we don't really know from what point in time people on the island have come from. The past.. future.. doesn't matter.. When the island was destroyed by the nuke, it pretty much stopped all chain of events in the past from ever happening.. even BEFORE the island was nuked.. Anything done on Jacob's behalf didn't happen in the alternate (that we know of so far) so it changed EVERYTHING. Butterfly effect gone crazy pretty much... That's why it's not just those 'turning points' for characters that are changed, and some of them seem to be pretty starkly different people (Hurley for instance.. Sawyer especially).

I'm almost willing to bet that Richard does not exist anymore in the alternate timeline. He is most likely dead.

But we know something is not right.. we could see it in Jack every time he got mildly confused about things, or forgot things that happened to him.

Idk.. I don't know what is going on, but I like the alternate reality. Seeing how 'fate' was going to bring certain people together regardless.
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Old 03-31-2010, 02:02 PM   #555
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Who has all been connected so far in the Alternate Reality?

We've seen Rose and Locke, Jin and Sayid, Jack and Locke, Kate and Sawyer, Claire and Kate, Saywer and I believe Miles, Ben and Alex...
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Old 03-31-2010, 02:16 PM   #556
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Hurley and Locke also.

Arnzt and Ben (and Locke technically) even though Arnzt isn't really a main character.. kinda funny seeing him again.
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Old 03-31-2010, 09:07 PM   #557
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I kind of think the things in the alternate reality aren't really coincidences for the people that went to the island. Keamy dying, Mikhail shot in the eye, and all the interactions between the Losties. Maybe a form of course correction.
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Old 03-31-2010, 10:50 PM   #558
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I dunno if it's course correction. It's like Sun bumping her head and not being able to speak English - where in the alternate reality, she did not learn to speak English 'Course connection'?

Another thing I was thinking about - Widmore told Locke when he turned the wheel and was in the real world during season 5, that Locke needed to be back on the Island, because 'a war was coming', and that Locke needs to be back on the Island, otherwise the wrong side will win. I guess he didn't know or was aware of MIB's plan. But more to the point, I think it highlights and further supports the idea that MAYBE Jacob knew what was going to happen and that his plan coincides with Widmore's (Jacob KNEW Widmore was coming to the Island) and that what's occurring is exactly what he wants to happen. Yet the master plan largely depends on the 6 candidates choice of action and what destiny they really believe to be theirs.
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Old 04-01-2010, 06:58 AM   #559
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You have to ask yourself what the alternate reality stories have in common. It seems to me they all show how life could have been better for passengers, or at least is showing them in situations where they have the oppurtunity to right what bothers them so much.
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Old 04-01-2010, 07:17 AM   #560
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i thought sun learnt english back in korea? i figured she was just feigning not knowing, like she did at first on the island.
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