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Old 08-01-2015, 04:59 PM   #2881
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So in short, he basically sucked.
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Old 08-01-2015, 05:06 PM   #2882
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No. He was a slightly above average pitcher during his time with the Cubs. What else would a team want from a 4/5 starter? I mean, yes, every team should have Zach Greinke as their fourth starter but since that isn't possible you need someone else there to fill a role.

Look at it this way....they just got Dan Haren who they are praying is Marquis. They wanted a guy who will take the bump every five days and just hold his own. Haren is slightly above league average and that's all they wanted.
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Old 08-01-2015, 05:10 PM   #2883
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Except I'd much rather have Haren than Marquis.
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Old 08-01-2015, 05:11 PM   #2884
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Who does Marquis play for now, by the way? Surely some team out there needs an average starter (who sucks).
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Old 08-01-2015, 05:11 PM   #2885
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Originally Posted by Frank Drebin View Post
They're doing what they should be doing. Theo and Jed are all about timing the market to get best value. They're under no obligation to make a trade, so they're waiting while everyone else makes deals and will probably try to get the best value from whichever pitcher is left over from a team who wants to unload a guy for something. I'd take Mike Leake for a similar package that brought Miguel Montero to Wrigley.
......they stuck to their plan, btw.
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Old 08-01-2015, 05:13 PM   #2886
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Originally Posted by screech View Post
Who does Marquis play for now, by the way? Surely some team out there needs an average starter (who sucks).
He was in the majors with Cincy this year. 9 starts and a 6.46 ERA.
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Old 08-01-2015, 05:14 PM   #2887
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Quote:
Originally Posted by screech View Post
Except I'd much rather have Haren than Marquis.
Since this isn't 2009, yeah I'll take haren over marquis. I'm arguing that a pitcher like marquis (which is Dan Haren in 2015) has value to a team at the back end of the rotation during the regular season. Marquis was never going to start a playoff game and neither will Haren if they get that far.
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Old 08-01-2015, 05:15 PM   #2888
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Glad to have a fun baseball argument and debate in this thread rather than a bunch of MLBTR bot posts.

*barfs on screech ' s head*
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Old 08-01-2015, 05:15 PM   #2889
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Drebin View Post
Since this isn't 2009, yeah I'll take haren over marquis. I'm arguing that a pitcher like marquis (which is Dan Haren in 2015) has value to a team at the back end of the pen. Marquis was never going to start a playoff game and neither will Haren if they get that far.
um. Dan Haren was an ace in 2009. Jason Marquis was just Really Lucky Jason Marquis.
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Old 08-01-2015, 05:19 PM   #2890
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Dan Haren was worth 6.5 WAR by himself in 2009. Marquis from 2007-2009 was worth 6.8 WAR in total.
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Old 08-01-2015, 05:20 PM   #2891
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Yes, you take that Dan Haren over Marquis in 09. Duh.

Again, the cubs, in 2015, needed a Jason Marquis type pitcher at the trade deadline. The reason I used Marquis as a comp was to describe to cub fans who remember him what kind of player they should expect to get at the deadline.

I'm not directly comparing the two in any way.
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Old 08-01-2015, 05:27 PM   #2892
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Uh oh...RP'S here.

"Dey shoudda got David Price and Cole Hamels for Starlin Castro and Jason Hammel. Dey suck now they'll never win aaaahhhhhhh"
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Old 08-01-2015, 05:29 PM   #2893
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*barfs on screech ' s radio microphone*
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Old 08-01-2015, 05:34 PM   #2894
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I'm a bot because I'm telling you the truth about a pitcher you love for some reason? Look, I'm a fan of guys who aren't very good too, but I can at least admit that their bloated numbers have more to do with luck than talent.
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Old 08-01-2015, 05:38 PM   #2895
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Drebin View Post
Yes, you take that Dan Haren over Marquis in 09. Duh.

Again, the cubs, in 2015, needed a Jason Marquis type pitcher at the trade deadline. The reason I used Marquis as a comp was to describe to cub fans who remember him what kind of player they should expect to get at the deadline.

I'm not directly comparing the two in any way.
Yes, and I remember that Jason Marquis sucked and Dan Haren does not. Therefore your comparison is invalid.
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Old 08-01-2015, 06:27 PM   #2896
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Quote:
Originally Posted by screech View Post
I'm a bot because I'm telling you the truth about a pitcher you love for some reason? Look, I'm a fan of guys who aren't very good too, but I can at least admit that their bloated numbers have more to do with luck than talent.
Dude, I'm just messing with you with the barf stuff since you're a Phills fan. C'mon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveWadding View Post
Yes, and I remember that Jason Marquis sucked and Dan Haren does not. Therefore your comparison is invalid.
Dan Haren 2015 is Jason Marquis circa 2008 in terms of purpose, role and results.

Marquis in '08 had an FIP of 4.61, Haren's this year is 4.58. 15 Haren has a better K and BB rate than 08 Marquis, but Marquis got more groundballs and allowed way fewer homers. Haren has been worth 0.5 WAR this year and should finish with a WAR of 1.0-1.3, while 08 Marquis had a WAR of 1.8 (Marquis pitched 167 innings, Haren has pitched 129 so far and should get another 50-60).

Both 08 Marquis and 15 Haren are flawed but both have wound up with similar results at the end of the day.
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Old 08-01-2015, 07:08 PM   #2897
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I have always seen your point. And it's basically valid, but Jason Marquis still sucks. You could have just said 2009 Rich Harden and I would have been okay with that. LOL
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Old 08-01-2015, 07:36 PM   #2898
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Argh...fucking wadding.....I'm going to train your class to not do their homework. You'll carefully and thoughtfully explain why it's necessary, then they'll just respond with "it sucks"
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Old 08-01-2015, 07:37 PM   #2899
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Old 08-01-2015, 07:45 PM   #2900
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I get it, Jason Marquis tongued your balls in a Wrigley Field bathroom in 2007.
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Old 08-01-2015, 08:04 PM   #2901
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Old 08-01-2015, 08:11 PM   #2902
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Old 08-01-2015, 09:53 PM   #2903
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Old 08-01-2015, 09:57 PM   #2904
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Old 08-01-2015, 10:06 PM   #2905
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Larry Lucchino getting demoted by the Red Sox.

Hated that guy ever since he played a huge role why Theo Epstein suddenly left the team as GM. Outside of Chicken-gate, he's been a big source of the problems the Sox have had over the past few years.

Good guy to have when it comes to building up a team/organization but becomes a huge headache once he gets too hands-on or refuses to concede power to other people.
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Old 08-01-2015, 10:12 PM   #2906
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Old 08-01-2015, 10:58 PM   #2907
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Old 08-01-2015, 11:21 PM   #2908
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Wonder if his beard is related to Brian Wilson's beard. Both majestic in appearance and like Wilson's beard at the time, already in playoff-ready mode.
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Old 08-01-2015, 11:22 PM   #2909
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Red Sox trying not to be last.
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Old 08-02-2015, 01:05 AM   #2910
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Fucking Mark Lowe
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Old 08-02-2015, 12:48 PM   #2911
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Now that I'm finally down to a stable blood pressure I can now objectively comment on the lack of movement from the Padres at the deadline.

I honestly don't get it. For four months, this team has underperformed. They've played below 500 after a 10-5 start. Injuries have exposed the lack of depth created after pillaging the farm system in the off season. Even then, the Padres had an envious amount of valuable talent in which they could move to restock the farm and possibly reload the major league team.

Instead they sat on their hands, making zero high profile moves. Industry insiders claim that gm Preller was asking for way too much in return, and that, as confirmed later on by the team in an attempt to spin the non movement, belief that the club can still win out.

So they foolishly think a club who's been losing for 60% of the season can still turn it around? Great. Why didn't they bother to add top big club? You mean to tell me there were no deals available to add a shortstop, second baseman, third baseman or centerfielder? None?

And even then,the daft thinking behind their belief brings great fear of what the future holds for this ballclub. The Padres are losing one starting pitcher to free agency in each of the next three offseasons. Ian Kennedy this fall, Andrew Cashner the next, and Tyson Ross after 2017. No, none of those guys are true difference makers, but they're quality, Ross and Cashner more so, 2 to 4 starters who have real value and whom the Padres have no prospects to replace when they depart. They can soften the blow by exploiting this year's pitching market in the offseason, since the market will be heavily overcrowded with arms. But with so much money tied into Kemp, Shields, Kimbrel, Gyorko and Melvin Upton's corpse, does a mid market team really have the financial resources to replace two or more starting pitchers? Maybe they could move some names in the offseason, but the Padres biggest trade strength is their pitching. Teams are less likely to give up quality in a trade if they can acquire comparable valuable via free agency while keeping their farm system in tact.

The even bigger issue is the everyday lineup. The Padres, as I stated, lack 4 everyday regulars going into next year as well as right now. 2 of those, center and short, are two of the three most important positions on the diamond. They couldn't have flipped anybody to at least nab some league average regulars to plug in there this year or next? Even more than the pitching, there's a giant, gaping hole in the lineup with no readily, realistically available fix in sight. Teams aren't going to be so willing and desperate in the offseason when everybody is on the market scouring for talent. The deadline was a prime opportunity for Preller to expose other teams' willingness to overpay for rentals and Preller missed the boat.

My biggest gripe here is the rumor Preller overpriced his available talent. I get the idea is to ask for the moon and settle for less. But to be so daft as to think you have complete bargaining power despite other teams,like the Tigers, A's etc, having similar or better goods they openly wanted to move is a gross overestimating of the actual talent of your roster and a clear overconfidence in oneself. I believe whole heartedly Preller is buying into his own hype as this rock star, mad man gm who can swing any move at any time. Apparently not. And by sitting on his ass as July 31 came and went, he's left with, worst case scenario, a 1st round draft pick for Upton in God know what slot, best case scenario, waiver wire August deals that will likely net far less value as well as limit the market since any team,in contention or not, can claim a player with no intention of acquiring them or working out a deal.

I miss Jed Hoyer honestly. He has the nads to admit his teams aren't built for the postseason and tears down and moves assets accordingly. My team's gm would rather deny defeat and push the team into further mediocrity for another handful of years.

Oh to be a Padres fan.
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Old 08-02-2015, 12:54 PM   #2912
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A Padres fan. More like the ex-Braves.

I WANT THEM ALL BACK.

ATL
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Old 08-02-2015, 02:21 PM   #2913
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You can have them. I'll take back Maybin, Peterson and Wisler thank you
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Old 08-02-2015, 02:30 PM   #2914
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I think A.J. Preller is gonna get canned after 1 season, Damian. That's just my thought on that.

YOU CAN'T spend all that money, make all those trades, fire the manager, and at the trade deadline, blow everyone off and don't do anything. And tell local sports radio the next day that you think the Padres are gonna go all the way. And there were teams that were offering their top guys for Kimbrel, Upton, and maybe even Shields.

If you're gonna take a page out of the George Steinbrenner Book of Running a Baseball Team, you better be damn sure you deliver a team that will give you a World Series that year.
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Old 08-02-2015, 03:10 PM   #2915
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The Yankees were gonna give up their top shortstop prospect, Jose Mateo, and take on Craig Kimbrel and Jedd Gyorko. That's damn near $20 mil for next year at the least.

You HAVE to make that deal.

Preller won't get canned. Ownership ran Josh Byrnes,a solid gm, out of town,then fired Bud Black, all while pushing for big name trades and increasing payroll. Preller is their man. His firing would be ownership admitting fault in telling a once hot to trot gm candidate to tear down the team. They're too proud and pompous to do that.

They've been saying they believe in the team since early June.
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Old 08-02-2015, 03:20 PM   #2916
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Josh Byrnes is not a solid GM.
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Old 08-02-2015, 05:33 PM   #2917
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Woooo Jays win 3 of 4 against K.C.
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Old 08-02-2015, 05:54 PM   #2918
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Droford View Post
Os beat the Tigers again
Hi
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Old 08-02-2015, 06:52 PM   #2919
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Quote:
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Josh Byrnes is not a solid GM.
He was in San Diego. The only trade I hated was moving Rizzo. Beyond that,he acquired quite a bit of talent without giving up much. Yasmani Grandal, Yonder Alonso and Brad Boxberger are all above average major leaguers on the cheap,two of which all-star players, all of whom acquired for Mat Latos. He traded a couple of career minor leaguers for above average starter Tyson Ross. Boxberger went to Tampa for Jesse Hahn, a young, cheap above average starter. His front office team also continued to draft extremely well which helped facilitate many of the moves Preller executed in the offseason.

The only black eye is the Rizzo trade. Beyond that he did a whole of good and got canned for his troubles.
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Old 08-02-2015, 10:09 PM   #2920
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6-4 road trip for the Yankees. Not bad.

Hype machine is full swing for the arrival of Severino.
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