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Old 01-07-2014, 02:06 AM   #1
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Could WCW 2001 compete with the WWE today.
If you took WCW exactly how it was in 2001 and put it on T.V against the WWE, how would it do?

Been watching some WCW 2001 and it's honestly not that bad. You still had Goldberg, Flair, Sting, Booker T, Scott Steiner, Mike Awesome, DDP, Nash, Helms/Moore/Karagais, Rey/Kidman, Storm. But, you have to consider the booking and writing back then.

I honestly think it would do well.












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Old 01-07-2014, 02:24 AM   #2
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I saw the last nitro they did at the Palace in August 2000 and it was absolutely terrible. So yes, wcw circa 2001ish could compete with the crap the WWE puts out today.
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Old 01-07-2014, 02:26 AM   #3
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My bad it was July 17

Numbers in parentheses indicate the length of the match.
(c) refers to the champion(s) heading into the match.
Mike Awesome defeats Positively Kanyon in a WCW United States Heavyweight Title Tournament Quarter Final Match (4:47)
Lance Storm defeats Buff Bagwell in a WCW United States Heavyweight Title Tournament Quarter Final Match (2:08)
The Great Muta defeats Vampiro (w/ Shaggy 2 Dope, The Demon & Violent J) in a WCW United States Heavyweight Title Tournament Quarter Final Match (4:00)
The Franchise (w/ Torrie Wilson) defeats Billy Kidman in a WCW United States Heavyweight Title Tournament Quarter Final Match (3:57)
The Jung Dragons (Jamie-San, Kaz Hayashi & Yang) defeat 3-Count (Evan Karagias, Shane Helms & Shannon Moore) (w/ Tank Abbott) in a Six Man Tag Team Ladder Match (3:18)
Mike Awesome defeats The Great Muta in a WCW United States Heavyweight Title Tournament Semi Final Match (3:35)
Lance Storm defeats The Franchise (w/ Torrie Wilson) in a WCW United States Heavyweight Title Tournament Semi Final Match (4:30)
Jeff Jarrett defeats Stevie Ray (2:25)
Lance Storm defeats Mike Awesome to win the vacant WCW United States Championship (5:05)
Goldberg vs. Scott Steiner (w/ Midajah) ended in a No Contest (5:17)
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Old 01-07-2014, 02:43 AM   #4
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In theory, they could. They had some exciting lower and mid-card talent, and I think that some of their "attitude" could give them an appropriate edge over many of the WWE guys. Plus, the WWE climate could directly affect the way WCW was run.

For example, if Daniel Bryan were over in the WWE with his "YES!" shtick, perhaps Lance Storm would catch fire mocking it in WCW? That would give WCW a fresh top player that never broke through in the actual WCW days.
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Old 01-07-2014, 02:47 AM   #5
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No it couldn't. Yes they had some decent stars but horrendous script writers oh yeah and Russo too. Ironically the best Nitro post July 1998 was the final Nitro. Shame that it took being bought out to bring out the best in the performers. After the finger poke of doom crap you got the impression wrestlers were just there to pick up a paycheck rather than any motivation to entertain the fans with the exception of Sting or Booker T. Ending the streak to Nash killed the Goldberg freight train and then Jeff Jarett as champion???? Even worse was Arquette and Russo holding the belt and signing Tank Abbott to a contract.
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Old 01-07-2014, 02:51 AM   #6
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But you have to keep in mind that if the WWE were running their Authority storyline, WCW could in turn catch on to it working and run a storyline where guys like Booker T and Sting aren't just there for the paycheck but to forge legacies. Booker T and Sting are really quite different from any of the current top guys in WWE too.
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Old 01-07-2014, 03:38 AM   #7
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The Magnificant Seven wasn't terrible.

Lol Shisen I went to a house show at the Palace in 2000. There must have been 1500 people.
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Old 01-07-2014, 04:54 AM   #8
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No it couldn't. Yes they had some decent stars but horrendous script writers...
Which would put them on par with WWE...
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Old 01-07-2014, 07:10 AM   #9
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Could that roster compete against this one? Yeah. Could that company compete against this one? Mother fuck no. The company still wouldn't know what it was doing and still couldn't string a decent program together to save anyone's life.
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Old 01-07-2014, 07:14 AM   #10
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Watch a couple WCW 2001 Nitro's other than the last one. They really aren't that bad at all.
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Old 01-07-2014, 07:15 AM   #11
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Watch this Thunder. It's pretty good.
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Old 01-07-2014, 07:21 AM   #12
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They had The Franchise so yes.
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Old 01-07-2014, 07:30 AM   #13
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Old 01-07-2014, 09:07 AM   #14
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They had Kanyon, and nobody betta than Kanyon, so yes.
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Old 01-07-2014, 01:50 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Bad News Gertner View Post
Watch a couple WCW 2001 Nitro's other than the last one. They really aren't that bad at all.
The question isn't "could they put on good shows," it was "can they compete." A lot of shows in their last days were good shows, but the overall product including direction and long-term watchability was laughable.
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Old 01-07-2014, 02:56 PM   #16
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Probably just as good as TNA is doing right now albeit with better production and a bit stronger ratings.

Late WCW era had some good moments and a decent roster but not enough to offset how bad the overall booking and management was back then.
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Old 01-07-2014, 06:45 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Shisen Kopf View Post
My bad it was July 17

Numbers in parentheses indicate the length of the match.
(c) refers to the champion(s) heading into the match.
Mike Awesome defeats Positively Kanyon in a WCW United States Heavyweight Title Tournament Quarter Final Match (4:47)
Lance Storm defeats Buff Bagwell in a WCW United States Heavyweight Title Tournament Quarter Final Match (2:08)
The Great Muta defeats Vampiro (w/ Shaggy 2 Dope, The Demon & Violent J) in a WCW United States Heavyweight Title Tournament Quarter Final Match (4:00)
The Franchise (w/ Torrie Wilson) defeats Billy Kidman in a WCW United States Heavyweight Title Tournament Quarter Final Match (3:57)
The Jung Dragons (Jamie-San, Kaz Hayashi & Yang) defeat 3-Count (Evan Karagias, Shane Helms & Shannon Moore) (w/ Tank Abbott) in a Six Man Tag Team Ladder Match (3:18)
Mike Awesome defeats The Great Muta in a WCW United States Heavyweight Title Tournament Semi Final Match (3:35)
Lance Storm defeats The Franchise (w/ Torrie Wilson) in a WCW United States Heavyweight Title Tournament Semi Final Match (4:30)
Jeff Jarrett defeats Stevie Ray (2:25)
Lance Storm defeats Mike Awesome to win the vacant WCW United States Championship (5:05)
Goldberg vs. Scott Steiner (w/ Midajah) ended in a No Contest (5:17)
these results read like an internet wrestling federation, its so weird that its real.
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Old 01-07-2014, 06:49 PM   #18
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"compete" no, because WWE is a giant worldwide steamrolling machine that is what 95% of people think of when they think pro wrestling. Do equal to/better than TNA and provide a viable alternative? Absolutely. The last few months in WCW were far from terrible creatively and in-ring action wise and they were "heading in the right direction".
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Old 01-07-2014, 06:54 PM   #19
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"compete" no, because WWE is giant worldwide steamrolling machine that is what 95% of people of people think of when they think pro wrestling. Do equal to/better than TNA and provide a viable alternative? Absolutely. The last few months in WCW were far from terrible creatively and in-ring action wise and they were "heading in the right direction".
yeah, they just happened to get bought by WWF over Eric Bischoff and thus ended
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Old 01-07-2014, 08:45 PM   #20
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Realistically, WWE would have to start trying again and they would probably keep the gap wide but if we're speaking theoretically, late WCW vs. current WWE without factoring in the fact that competition would cause the show to change, then yes, WCW would probably be able to compete soon enough.
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Old 01-07-2014, 08:59 PM   #21
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"compete" no, because WWE is a giant worldwide steamrolling machine that is what 95% of people think of when they think pro wrestling. Do equal to/better than TNA and provide a viable alternative? Absolutely. The last few months in WCW were far from terrible creatively and in-ring action wise and they were "heading in the right direction".


EXACTLY. It wasn't a bad product as far as talent I if I recall, I think I was watchinig it more then WWF back then. I never liked the whole McMahon/Helmsley storyline that dominated TV back in 2000 and I think in the beginning of 2001 although I can't remember without looking. I liked the Magnificient 7 angle, loved the Natural Born Thrillers, loved Team Canada and I didn't mind the last nWo angle. But Bret got hurt and that was done immediately. so it wasn't a bad product, but was poorly mismanaged.

But yeah , today WWE is just so far on top of the wrestling/entertainment industry that nobody can compete. it's not even the wrestling part, it's everything else they do outside of wrestling.
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Old 01-08-2014, 12:13 AM   #22
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The WWF was on such a roll back then, it wouldn't have mattered what WCW did. But if you matched up today's WWE against WCW 2001, I think it'd be close. WCW isn't TNA. They were around for a looooooong time.
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Old 01-08-2014, 12:31 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by JimmyMess View Post
these results read like an internet wrestling federation, its so weird that its real.
That show was the same day as an Nsync concert at the Silverdome and these three stupid teenie bopper girls (where are you superslim??) were in line in front to get in. They went to the wrong stadium. DOH! also they moved everyone down to the ring area as the Palace was maybe 1/3 full. We got our tix for free. we were sitting next to some moron kid who got really excited when they played DMX, probably a relative of krispy. Somone had a "Goldberg: King of the Jews sign" so yeah all in all it was a terrible show. But I had a few beers so 3/10. In poem form this show is as follows:

WCW 2000 tried so hard,
Bound to fail, booked by a tard
at least I got to drink a Guinness
Monday Nitro: serious business!
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Old 01-08-2014, 12:33 AM   #24
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When you say someone had a "Goldberg: King of the Jews" sign. Do you mean you had a "Goldberg: King of the Jews" sign?
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Old 01-08-2014, 12:38 AM   #25
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NEVER!
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Old 01-08-2014, 09:24 AM   #26
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I know we are doing a direct comparison, but if WCW kept on going, imagine if they got their hands on talent like Matt Hardy and Christian Cage when they were hot in 2005/2006. Or if they got their hands on Kurt Angle. TNA has done some good stuff over the last eleven years, but they aren't that viable #2 where if a guy isn't happy with his direction in the WWE, then he's going to show up there and make a huge stir. Relevancy seems to become frozen while in TNA and then resume itself when a return to the WWE is made.
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Old 01-08-2014, 09:43 AM   #27
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I know we are doing a direct comparison, but if WCW kept on going, imagine if they got their hands on talent like Matt Hardy and Christian Cage when they were hot in 2005/2006. Or if they got their hands on Kurt Angle. TNA has done some good stuff over the last eleven years, but they aren't that viable #2 where if a guy isn't happy with his direction in the WWE, then he's going to show up there and make a huge stir. Relevancy seems to become frozen while in TNA and then resume itself when a return to the WWE is made.
They would have messed it up just like TNA did
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Old 01-08-2014, 09:56 AM   #28
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TNA didn't mess up with Christian and Angle, more nobody really cared because it's TNA. A simple WWE video package promoting a guy is way more valuable than a push to the moon in TNA (see: RVD) TNA could book the strongest product possible with a run of fantastic storylines and performances and it wouldn't matter because they're still a raindrop compared to the ocean that is WWE. Noid has something worth taking into note with that, a guy like Angle jumping to a company like WCW, even in it's 2001 state, would have been a MUCH bigger deal than it was with TNA.
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Old 01-08-2014, 04:04 PM   #29
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Sure the scriptwriters in wwe right now may be crap but really as bad as WCW circa 2001? The way the company was being run in General was just terrible and even at the peak of their powers with the NWO and Goldberg WCW still lacked on thing, international exposure. WCW didn't begin touring the UK and Europe again until mid 2000 by which time all that was left was the final nail for the coffin......I mean I remember the main event at Manchester show being the Mamalukes v the Harris Brothers. I can remember the audience being stunned in silence.

Anyway the fact WCW some two years after the finger poke is a remarkable achievement.

Whilst TNA has whiffs of the bad WCW about it, what they did right from the offset that WCW took so long t do was to extend their global reach through doing multiple shows, takings, fan fest events, Ppvs etc. technically TNA gets higher viewing figures in the uk than wwe because it's on free to air tv rather than pay tv.

WCW at best had a cult following and even if they were winning the so called Monday night wars they never had the global reach wwe had. I don't ever recall a single WCW ppv ever being broadcast in its entirety either live or recorded in the uk.

Might be confusing myslef again. But no WCW of 2001 could no way have competed with the wwe today or even the TNA.
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Old 01-08-2014, 04:12 PM   #30
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that Manchester show you mentioned headlined by the Mamalukes and Harris Brothers? That drew 16,000 people. That's better than an "at best cult following". That tour did higher numbers attendance wise than the TV shows and PPV's back in America at the time. They absolutely were never on par over here with WWF/E, as has been established. But WCW 2000/2001 wipes the floor with TNA. This day and age, after seeing the success of overseas touring and so forth (remember WWF/E didn't push that stuff back then anything close to the way they do now) WCW in this climate would obviously jump on that bandwagon. TNA does it and it's the best crowds they have every year. WCW would do exactly the same and probably better.
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Old 01-08-2014, 04:22 PM   #31
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that Manchester show you mentioned headlined by the Mamalukes and Harris Brothers? That drew 16,000 people. That's better than an "at best cult following". That tour did higher numbers attendance wise than the TV shows and PPV's back in America at the time. They absolutely were never on par over here with WWF/E, as has been established. But WCW 2000/2001 wipes the floor with TNA. This day and age, after seeing the success of overseas touring and so forth (remember WWF/E didn't push that stuff back then anything close to the way they do now) WCW in this climate would obviously jump on that bandwagon. TNA does it and it's the best crowds they have every year. WCW would do exactly the same and probably better.
Exactly, it was the biggest crowd WCW had drawn in ages and that's how they rewarded fan loyalty. When I say cult it was because the majority of those fans would have followed WCW either through TNT on Friday nights or gone out of their way to get videos and DVDs just to catch WCW as opposed to having any sort of mainstream exposure.

Yes wwe tours were only limited to the odd uk only ppv but different t WCW they were doing that over years and years and not just in the twilight years.

The question as I interpreted it was could the WCW of 2001 compete with wwe now and my answer is no if it was being run exactly the way it was in 2001, more so because of the people in charge behind the scenes.

The roster etc is irrelevant. You can have a team of great players in any sport but without decent management, leadership and direction you aren't going anywhere.

Despite the financial issues and rumours of TNA being sold their popularity worldwide despite being less than wwe means it's kept its head way above water. WCW were already down for the count by the time they came to the uk and even though there was a fan base here, the fact that they could lay on the Mamalukes as a main event showed how much WCW cared for or considered their fans.

Though I remember that card pretty well yes sting and Goldberg and Nash were injured, Bret hart did a promo on the mic, and vampiro, Luger, flair, booker t and Jeff Jarrett were all there but not the main even. So it wasn't that decent stars weren't there it was just the show was staged terribly.
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Old 01-08-2014, 04:27 PM   #32
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But could you imagine the business WCW could have done touring worldwide when the NWO vs sting and Goldberg story lines were at their peak? And the fact Ppvs were never broadcast that still puzzles me, not even so much of a highlights show on TNT.

Maybe WCW would have done things differently had they been around even now but as keep alluding to I feel the Monday Night Wars paints WCW in a better light than it deserves but I suppose you could argue that their primary audience was North America and getting high Monday night ratings and ppv buys in the us and Canada was worth a lot more than attempting to sell broadcasting rates abroad and doing house shows in the uk and Europe etc.

But certainly tNA's popularity outside the US has been crucial to the company's survival.
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Old 01-08-2014, 04:37 PM   #33
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I'm pretty certain, given that TNT owned WCW at that point and the channel it was shown on, if it was financially viable to show PPVs they would have but it was 5 hours every week as it was, and while not exactly free to air it was available to even the basic satellite customer, unlike the WWF at the time.
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Old 01-08-2014, 05:06 PM   #34
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I'm pretty certain, given that TNT owned WCW at that point and the channel it was shown on, if it was financially viable to show PPVs they would have but it was 5 hours every week as it was, and while not exactly free to air it was available to even the basic satellite customer, unlike the WWF at the time.
The way the sky satellite tv packages were at that time you had to purchase the basic package anyway for the set top box to be viable which gave you at least sky one and hence some wwe programming alongside obviously TNT. Given that the popularity shown by the house show attendances in 2000 and I'm guessing those were not just casual fans, it shows there may well have been an appetite for ppv broadcasts even in a recorded format. I mean TNT was just cruddy classic movies and reruns of lame shows from the 80s and was on the same broadcast signal as the Cartoon Network. I'm sure on a Sunday night they could have accommodated a live broadcast of Bash at the Beach or Starrcade. We will never know.

The fact is WCW could have done so much more to expand their global fan base or indeed consolidate that which they already had but they were so obsessed with the Monday night wars and putting a decent episode of nitro that they never saw the bigger picture. I mean think of how much money they could have made had Goldberg fought hogan for the WCW title on ppv rather than nitro?

I mean WCW worldwide began broadcasting free to air on channel five as I recall again around the year 2000 but as I keep stating WCW were pretty much finished circa February 1999.

I feel as a WCW fan I lost out never getting to watch broadcasts of bash at the beach, Starrcade, fall brawl war games etc seeing clips on nitro or reading about in WCW magazine which I had to pay ott subscription fees for just didn't do it justice.
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Old 01-08-2014, 05:10 PM   #35
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What ratings are there at 1am on a sunday? The PPVs were available on the german channels if you were that desperate too see them, the fact neither channel 4 or 5 looked at picking them up probably shows there wasn't that much interest.
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Old 01-08-2014, 08:42 PM   #36
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What ratings are there at 1am on a sunday? The PPVs were available on the german channels if you were that desperate too see them, the fact neither channel 4 or 5 looked at picking them up probably shows there wasn't that much interest.
German tv, doesn't quite address the uk fans. The fact is WCW never really were a globally mindset organisation and had they been perhaps they'd still be around now.
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Old 01-09-2014, 08:19 AM   #37
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I saw a WCW show in Birmingham in like 94. Was that a one-off?
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Old 01-09-2014, 08:30 AM   #38
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Early 90s they were over here a fair bit from what I remember.
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Old 01-09-2014, 03:34 PM   #39
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Early 90s they were over here a fair bit from what I remember.
They did have working relationships with Japan and Mexico.
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