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Old 05-05-2010, 12:18 AM   #1361
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The X-Men movies were mediocre, the best one was the second one and I'll call it good not great. The first one just felt like a TV movie for some reason. It wasn't horrible, but not great by a long sho The third was alright, it had some nice special effects but the whole killing off a 3rd of the characters idea just sucked. And even I think that the idea of a reboot is terrible, but with the shit they stepped in, they probably have no logical choice. If this comes out, hopefully it's in 3 or 4 years from now. And Marvel has the rights.
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Old 05-05-2010, 12:19 AM   #1362
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I've always felt like X2 was and is one of the best comic book movies made.
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Old 05-05-2010, 12:26 AM   #1363
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While I think it's good, it is one of the better Marvel films along with Iron Man (which is great) and Spider-Man 2 (which also is good- but not as great as it should/could be) [some parts are too dragged out yet some of it has really awesome scenes like the train scene]
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Old 05-05-2010, 12:31 AM   #1364
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I'm in agreement with you about the marvel films higherarchy then. Those 3 are by far the best.

If I had to rank superhero movies, I'd probably say:

1. The Dark Knight
2. Spiderman 2
3. Watchmen
4. Batman Begins
5. Iron Man
6. X2
7. Batman
8. Superman
9. Spiderman
10. not sure

A movie like Sin City would be pretty high on my list, but I didn't include it because it's not really a "superhero" movie, just based on a graphic novel. If I go that route I'd have to include A History of Violence and Road To Perdition, among others.
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Old 05-05-2010, 12:31 AM   #1365
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Would be perfectly comfortable switching the 5 and 6 spot though
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Old 05-05-2010, 12:38 AM   #1366
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I don't agree that Spiderman 2 could have been greater in any way. I think it's far superior to the original, and until The Dark Knight came along was easily the greatest superhero movie of alltime (in my opinon of course).

It was really well loved by film critics and movie buffs. I'm not sure about the hardcore comic fans though. I love comic books, don't get me wrong, but that's not really what I'm looking for in things. I'm just looking for the best movie possible. I could care less about the content as long as it's somewhat faithful. Just the basic concept and staples really. Apart from that, I'm judging it the same I would judge any other movie
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Old 05-05-2010, 12:38 AM   #1367
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Originally Posted by Jeritron View Post
Really, I'd love to see X-Men revisited and be as good as it was with X2, but I'm not sure how that can happen.
Killing Professor X, Cyclops and Jean Grey is almost laughable for how destructive it is to the "X-Men" franchise. That's the founders of the X-Men right there, all dead, except for Storm.
I understand Prof X "isn't dead" and they can be brought back, but how convaluted is that shit? Come on.

The franchise should still be going, but they made moves that makes it dead as a doornail. They should leave it the fuck alone for 10 years and then take another look at things.

"The First Class" sounds like a horrid concept, and Wolverine was so bad that any sequels to that don't interest me in any way.
The First Class crap would just end up being "Twilight meets X-Men." X-Men watered down for teenage fan girls to fantasize about. The Last Stand was just so horrible..you are right on with killing so many important characters. Bringing them back would take up so much time in a movie. 20 minutes? even that is questionable. I am sure they will figure something out..or not.
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Old 05-05-2010, 12:56 AM   #1368
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I like Sin City and I liked Hellboy a lot as well. I guess not counting non-superhero books makes sense because stuff like Sin City and From Hell are great "movies" if you know what I mean. They feel a bit more cinematic than a lot of Marvel movies, in which DC superhero movies tend to capture a bit more.

This is not definite but I'd have something like-

Dark Knight
Batman Returns
Iron Man
Batman Begins
Hellboy
Watchmen
Batman
Superman 1 and 2
Spider-Man 2
X2

Not counting Sin City.
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Old 05-05-2010, 01:58 AM   #1369
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Fucking stupid how much hate the spider-man franchise gets. Yeah there may have been better choices for casting, but come on, how often is any character perfectly cast? And people act like they are terrible when they really aren't.

Sam Raimi captured the feel and atmosphere of the book perfectly. I do not anticipate the reboot.

Also, the clocktower/train fight is my favorite fight scene in a movie ever.
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Old 05-05-2010, 02:16 AM   #1370
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The first two Spider-Man movies are great. Two of my favorite "fun" movies.
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Old 05-05-2010, 02:25 AM   #1371
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What's weird on Spider-man's casting is how many TOTALLY AWESOME choices they made for all the mediocre ones. I mean, I'll be the first to bitch about Kirsten Dunst as Mary Jane, or Tobey McGuire not being confident enough as Spider-man--but on the other side of the coin, HOLYSHIT that Aunt May. That J. Jonah Jameson. That Sandman, that Doc Ock. Some of the casting was meh, some of the casting was fucking PERFECT.

I don't know about X-Men, though. I mean, I know most of the kids come to see Wolverine anyway, but it felt like all three fucking movies were just Wolverine and His Amazing Friends. One movie focusing on Logan? Fine, I understand. He's a lovable character. One and a half movies? Sure, he's marketable. I think I had a little too much Wolverine by the end of the three, now FOUR different movies in which he was the official star.

I'm afraid I'm going to be like this by the end of the Avengers, too. I'm skeptical that the guy they have playing Cap is going to be able... you know, "keep up" with the onstage antics of one Robert Downey Jr., and what's going to happen is Iron Man and His Avengers. I hope I'm wrong, though.
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Old 05-05-2010, 02:27 AM   #1372
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Not that I didn't like X-Men, of course. Second one was my favorite, but still. Fuck. God damn. Wolverine = Important, handsome, leader, best fighter, loved by everyone but Cyclops who was a dick and then died. We get it.
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Old 05-05-2010, 02:57 AM   #1373
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The people in charge of Avengers have way too much respect for the characters to let cap take a back seat, I think. Frankly, I think a lot of the movie will be about IM and cap butting heads, given their contrasting personalities and lifestyles. Cap has held the title of leader of the avengers in the past, but it's really always been the two of them running the team together, and I'm betting they won't change that for the film.
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Old 05-05-2010, 02:59 AM   #1374
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Also, they should just keep the same actor for Jameson, in the spider-man reboot. Had to be the best casting of a comic character, in the history of film.
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Old 05-05-2010, 03:01 AM   #1375
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The people giving them the money to make such a big movie have way too much respect for money to let Robert Downey Jr. take a back seat, I think.
I will be shocked if Chris Evans is leading the pack as Captain America. At the very best he will sharing that role with Downey's Iron Man, but more than likely it's going to be Iron Man and everyone else.
I can't prove this until the movie comes out, obviously, but to me it seems like common sense. Money and the general public always come first, not the comics.
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Old 05-05-2010, 03:07 AM   #1376
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I suppose there's also the bait and switch they can pull on the average movie goer, where they make Captain America the leader in the film, but cut the trailers and tailor the marketing campaign to make it seem like Iron Man is.
This way they can "have their cake and eat it too", so to speak.

I just fully expect the new popularity of Iron Man and Downey Jr. to be the primary attraction of the movie. Especially if Iron Man 2 is as successful and well-recieved as everyone expects.
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Old 05-05-2010, 03:14 AM   #1377
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Jeritron pretty much hit the nail on the head, as far as my concerns go.
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Old 05-05-2010, 03:14 AM   #1378
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I hope Edgar Wright and Simon Pegg make Ant Man before Avengers, so they can work in a minor role or cameo for him.
Obviously he's not going to be a major player but he could be a cool sidekick or one-scene gag.

I have a feeling that movie will be good. Edgar Wright is great, and Simon Pegg is perfect for that type of role. The smaller the movie the better. It should be made in the same spirit and scale as Shaun of the Dead and Hot Fuzz.

I don't think Hawkeye or Vision should get their own movies, but they could work them into any potential Avengers sequel easily.

I think getting a movie like Avengers off the ground is a pretty ambitious thing, and unexplored territory. They should stick with Cap, Iron Man, Thor and Hulk (and maybe Ant Man) the first time around. It will be hard enough to make all of those elements come together, nevermind introducing new ones at the same time.
Lesser Avengers seems like a sequel thing. If Vision, Hawkeye or anyone else is shoved in there it's going to feel bloated as hell
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Old 05-05-2010, 03:19 AM   #1379
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Even after the success of Iron Man, I think the general public has much more respect and recognition of the Captain America character. I think it would be weird even to someone who doesn't read comics, to see captain america in a subordinate role.

A lot of the emphasis in this arguement is being placed on the actors. But it doesn't matter how charming Robert Downey Jr. is. Nobody knew who Iron Man was before the movie. Now, to most people, he is that superhero the Downey Jr. played. But Captain America is a cultural icon, whose death in the comics made headlines around the world. Joe Quesada was even on the Colbert Report to speak about it.

Furthermore, it's not as if Captain America is being introduced for this movie. He has his own big budget summer blockbuster on the way, and it will be fresher in people's minds than Iron Man, when Avengers comes out.
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Old 05-05-2010, 03:21 AM   #1380
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Also, I never said Downey Jr. will take a backseat. Just that he would share the lead with cap.
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Old 05-05-2010, 03:27 AM   #1381
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I hope they can make Captain America the focus of both the film and the movie goers, but my concerns stand.
They're not even really concerns. As long as the movie is good, I am okay with it. I guess it's more of a prediction really.
Also, while I'm a fan of the Chris Evans casting, I feel as though they would have gone out and got someone like Leonardo Dicaprio if they were looking for it to be a bigger hit than Iron Man. I know this has nothing to do with quality, but it sort of indicates their approach to the concept.
I don't care that much about star power. Unfortunately, I think a lot of the general public does. That's what I'm trying to get at with placing emphasis on that.

Captain America could also be a massive hit and fire on all cylinders, and capture the public's attention enough to make Chris Evans into an overnight superstar. Maybe this is what they are hoping for. That's what happened with Michael Keaton and Christian Bale in the Batman role.
Seems like a big bet though, since Avengers will probably be in production before Captain America hits theaters.
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Old 05-05-2010, 03:28 AM   #1382
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Also, I never said Downey Jr. will take a backseat. Just that he would share the lead with cap.
Fair enough. I think this is the best case scenario at this point.
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Old 05-05-2010, 03:30 AM   #1383
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I was kind of hoping for Daniel Craig to be cast as Thor (not because of his fame, but just his look/personality), but hopefully this guy they got is good. I honestly have no real opinion on the matter, since I've only seen him act in one scene from Star Trek. The verdict is out.

What are your thoughts on it Figgy? And what would you have thought of Craig? I know you're a huge Thor mark.
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Old 05-05-2010, 03:31 AM   #1384
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More grievous things have been done for movie marketability than turning Captain America into a second fiddle.

And stage presence, or "charm", has alot to do with alot. If Chris Evans can't cement his presence on-screen while Downey Jr is eating the scenery alive, it would be just as bad as writing it out that way. While I'm basically waiting to be surprised--Heath Ledger's Joker showed me that I can definitely be wrong about casting choices--I'm still pretty skeptical that our Cap is going to have the staying power to stand beside our Ironman and our Hulk and still be memorable when it's all said and done.
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Old 05-05-2010, 03:33 AM   #1385
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Is Edward Norton still on board, or are they just going to have him in CGI Hulk form the whole time and dance around it?
I haven't heard anything about that in a while, but last I had heard Norton was doubtful.
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Old 05-05-2010, 03:34 AM   #1386
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But like I said, I'm basically going into this expecting the guys in charge to know something I don't. I still remember taking one look at "Heath Ledger will be the Joker" and going WHAT? WTF? BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN S;AJKSFJ;J THE JOKER?

And then I saw the trailer and promptly shut the fuck up. I'm hoping--hoping, hoping, hoping--that Chris Evans has a spark in him I haven't seen yet, and that the Cap movie is going to blow my fucking brains out.
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Old 05-05-2010, 03:35 AM   #1387
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Is Edward Norton still on board, or are they just going to have him in CGI Hulk form the whole time and dance around it?
I haven't heard anything about that in a while, but last I had heard Norton was doubtful.
I hadn't really heard anything about Norton backing out, so I assumed he was still on board. That'd be mad gay if he dropped out, though.
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Old 05-05-2010, 03:45 AM   #1388
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The way to approach Captain America is to really hit on what makes the character work. It's a slice of Americana, so it should be a pretty fun, light-hearted type of movie. It should capture that WW2 adventure, serial type of feeling.
The best example of that I can really think of is Raiders of the Lost Ark. It should be a lot like that. Joe Johnston also directed The Rocketeer, which I think is also a movie that goes places a Captain America movie should go.
Lastly, the original Superman. That movie really drives home that character, and the all-american feeling that comes with it. It reminded people of why it was so popular in the first place, and it had that really hokey, warming Norman Rockwell thing going on.

So my view is that Captain America should be some brilliant mix of Raiders, Rocketeer, and Superman. I don't think it should be too trendy or modern, since it's set in WWII. If they approach it the same way they approach other comic book movies it will come off awfully. I hate when movies set in past time periods try to be modern.

They should also try to shy away from tons of CGI. I want to see real stunts, and real fight scenes/chases in a WWII Captain America movie.

The big question is how a movie like that will be recived. I honestly think social climate plays a big part in how much of a hit a movie is.
Spiderman and The Dark Knight couldn't be more different, but one came along right after 9/11 and lifted spirits, and the other came along in a more cynical time and capitalized off of being dark and relevant.
Society could eat a pro-America movie up, or spit it out.
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Old 05-05-2010, 03:47 AM   #1389
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Also, I totally forgot that Hugo Weaving is going to be the Red Skull. Me likey breadsticks.
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Old 05-05-2010, 03:49 AM   #1390
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Chris Evans seems like he can play a myriad of different roles, given his parts in FF, Push, and The Losers. Thought he pretty much nailed Johnny Storm. I think he's a good actor, but he just hasn't gotten to break out until the captain america movie.
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Old 05-05-2010, 03:49 AM   #1391
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Christopher Reeves was a total no name when he played Superman. If the character of Captain America can do that for Chris Evans, and vice versa, everyone is a winner.
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Old 05-05-2010, 03:50 AM   #1392
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I heard Norton wasn't happy or something back in 2008.

And yeah, Cap has a ton of potential to be really good. An American super solider fighting Nazis and Red Skull.... it should be a hit. It'll probably be the first War/Superhero/Sci-Fi film.
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Old 05-05-2010, 04:01 AM   #1393
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I was kind of hoping for Daniel Craig to be cast as Thor (not because of his fame, but just his look/personality), but hopefully this guy they got is good. I honestly have no real opinion on the matter, since I've only seen him act in one scene from Star Trek. The verdict is out.

What are your thoughts on it Figgy? And what would you have thought of Craig? I know you're a huge Thor mark.
Yeah, never seen this guy before, so I can't really pass judgement. Can't really say much for Craig either. All I remember seeing him in was the bond movies, and it's hard for me to picture James Bond swinging a hammer around, screaming "I SAY THEE NAY!" at the top of his lungs.

Thor isn't really a tough cast tbh. You just need to find someone with a decent size frame, that can act really intensely in the fight scenes. He's not a particularly deep character. Very old school, black and white outlook on right and wrong type of superhero. I mean I enjoy the character, but it's more the book as a whole, and the whole mythology of his world that I love, when I say he's my favorite character.
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Old 05-05-2010, 08:30 AM   #1394
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At least they didn't cast Triple H as the rumours were suggesting...
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Old 05-05-2010, 11:19 AM   #1395
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I'm fairly excited about Wolverine 2.
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Old 05-05-2010, 11:32 AM   #1396
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I dont know why you guys are so worried about cap and ironman sharring the leadership/spotlight because hasnt that been the trend in the last decade maybe half a decade of the comics?
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Old 05-05-2010, 12:36 PM   #1397
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That's what I'm saying. People are saying that cap will be a subordinate to Iron Man though, not sharing leadership.

That would feel extremely awkward to me.
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Old 05-05-2010, 07:18 PM   #1398
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I doubt they will do that. Even though both share responsibility as team leaders..I have always seen Cap as having the ultimate word. It seems like way too many heroes look up to him and see him as more experienced since he was in "the shit." (or World War II)
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Old 05-05-2010, 07:31 PM   #1399
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Remember on the Spiderman Animated Series, where Spidey recruited various heroes and made them his bitch?
That was funny. Captain America, Iron Man, Reed Richards and Storm all getting him coffee
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Old 05-05-2010, 07:35 PM   #1400
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I remember that.
It has been years since I saw those episodes loosely based on the Secret Wars. If I am not mistaken, didn't he pick Cap for his leadership skills?
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