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Old 08-21-2009, 04:11 AM   #41
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John Morrison, Dolph Ziggler and to a lesser extent, Cryme Tyme, are being developed nicely over on SmackDown!. But basically the WWE doesn't really listen to the fans, or realise when they really have a hot thing. There's way too much of a glass ceiling for anyone who is not "there" yet to make it there.
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Old 08-21-2009, 04:22 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by FourFifty View Post
So you take a typical bad guy, make him a good guy, but he still acts bad. It was perfect. I would like to see WWE try to repeat this process after WrestleMania (so we're done with the guest hosts on Raw). Have Triple H align himself with John Cena to form a second version of the power trip or the corpration. For years they have been the top faces, now make the fans hate them. The younger kids are so emotionally invested in the product that they're going to love them or hate them. The older fans are going to enjoy it, much like a heel version of Edge. Take a group of younger guys who are chomping at the bit (Morrision, Ted DiBiase, Curt Hawkins, Kofi) who are sick and tired of guys being handed title shot after title shot, and go from there.

I'm not saying it'll work. This is just what I'd like.
I thought we hated Vince Russo around here, but it seems like your idea is almost a complete rip off of the New Blood vs Millionaires Club angle in WCW that everyone bitched about 9 years ago, which was partly at least done by Vince Russo.

Last edited by Droford; 08-21-2009 at 04:26 AM.
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Old 08-21-2009, 04:23 AM   #43
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Once again it's time for:






Last edited by St. Jimmy; 08-21-2009 at 04:26 AM.
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Old 08-21-2009, 04:26 AM   #44
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I like the second picture down.
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Old 08-21-2009, 04:27 AM   #45
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I approve of the above noid post.
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Old 08-21-2009, 04:27 AM   #46
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Truthfully, if the WWE wants to create stars, they might be better off getting some of their guys that aren't exactly lighting the world on fire on RAW (Jack Swagger, MVP, Kofi Kingston, The Miz, etc.) and swapping them for guys on RAW who are getting over and getting made to look like stars (John Morrison, Dolph Ziggler, Shad Gaspard, JTG, etc.).
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Old 08-21-2009, 07:39 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by Noid View Post
Truthfully, if the WWE wants to create stars, they might be better off getting some of their guys that aren't exactly lighting the world on fire on RAW (Jack Swagger, MVP, Kofi Kingston, The Miz, etc.) and swapping them for guys on RAW who are getting over and getting made to look like stars (John Morrison, Dolph Ziggler, Shad Gaspard, JTG, etc.).
The problem isn't the talent, the problem is the show.

The last time anyone was 'made' on Raw was Jeff Hardy with his feud with Orton, he's the last guy to step up from the mid card scene into the main event on that show. That was 18 months ago.

Anyone that they are bringing in from other brands are being treated as inferior to not threaten the top guys spots.

Look, we all know what would need to be done, top guys, need to have proper feuds with mid card guys to get them noticed. That just doesn't happen on Raw, and that is the problem. It's the direction of the show, Orton/HHH/Cena have been the top guys on that show for 2 years now and with the above exception of Hardy (bats was on smackdown and came to Raw recently granted, he's in that club as well), no one has been allowed in that little club, I'm not blaming them, I'm blaming Vince and the booking, it's his own fault for protecting his cash cows and not trying to create new ones and now it's coming to bite him in the ass.

Now Smackdown on the other hand has been a breath of fresh air, it's re-juvinating guys you didn't care about (Knox, Finlay, Rey) and promoting guys into the spot light (Hardy, Punk) the depressing thing is, at the next draft, Raw will get the likes of Punk, Ziggler etc over there, they will do nothing with them, then it will be their fault for not getting over and they will get lost into obscurity (see Ref: MVP)

So Vince, this is your own stupid fault, how in the hell this happened is beyond me, you must have 200 wrestlers on the books and yet all you have is a handful of stars
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Old 08-21-2009, 07:42 AM   #48
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Dave youell speaks the truth.
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Old 08-21-2009, 09:57 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Youell View Post
The problem isn't the talent, the problem is the show.

The last time anyone was 'made' on Raw was Jeff Hardy with his feud with Orton, he's the last guy to step up from the mid card scene into the main event on that show. That was 18 months ago.

Anyone that they are bringing in from other brands are being treated as inferior to not threaten the top guys spots.

Look, we all know what would need to be done, top guys, need to have proper feuds with mid card guys to get them noticed. That just doesn't happen on Raw, and that is the problem. It's the direction of the show, Orton/HHH/Cena have been the top guys on that show for 2 years now and with the above exception of Hardy (bats was on smackdown and came to Raw recently granted, he's in that club as well), no one has been allowed in that little club, I'm not blaming them, I'm blaming Vince and the booking, it's his own fault for protecting his cash cows and not trying to create new ones and now it's coming to bite him in the ass.

Now Smackdown on the other hand has been a breath of fresh air, it's re-juvinating guys you didn't care about (Knox, Finlay, Rey) and promoting guys into the spot light (Hardy, Punk) the depressing thing is, at the next draft, Raw will get the likes of Punk, Ziggler etc over there, they will do nothing with them, then it will be their fault for not getting over and they will get lost into obscurity (see Ref: MVP)

So Vince, this is your own stupid fault, how in the hell this happened is beyond me, you must have 200 wrestlers on the books and yet all you have is a handful of stars
Agreed. I always hate when douchers start getting all butt hurt because WWE released someone like Kendrick or Burke. Yes both of them could have been better if WWE wrote stuff of them, but that isn't the problem. WWE still has guys like Jericho, HBK, Punk, Morrison, MVP and so on that are more than capable in and out of the ring. These guys are being held back. Plus they rather do the same cookie cutter fueds again and again and again. Plus everything Dave said.
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Old 08-21-2009, 10:40 AM   #50
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I don't care what internet fans think; Vince is unable to create new stars because of the simple fact that his current stars have very little genuine charisma. Let's face it, you can hate Hulk Hogan all you want because he supposedly can't put on a face paced wrestling match, or because we think he helped destory WCW, but he is mostly responsible for each big boom in the business. Of course I can't leave out Austin or The Rock, who were also responsible for the boom in the very late 90's. But let's just say that there isn't anything new under the sun, and the fans that are left realize it. I never liked the John Cena character from the get go, and I think Vince is lucky that he got most people to buy into it. Orton and whomever is left in the main event scene aren't all that exciting either. It is possible that this group of guys could be Vince's last stand in the business before he pisses them all off and they go work for TNA......wait that sounds slightly familiar.
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Old 08-21-2009, 11:53 AM   #51
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the problem is that vince it trying to create stars that are a little bit against the system, have unnecessary ground 'pop' moves, and try to be funny on the mic *cough* john cena *cough*

basically he is trying to forcefully recreate the rock and austin and as we know those characters developed over time, you cant just force it otherwise people will reject it *cough* john cena *cough*
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Old 08-21-2009, 12:04 PM   #52
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The Baltimore Sun has an interview up with Chris Jericho where he talks about his teaming with Edge ending so quickly, his feud with Rey Mysterio, on WWE’s need to create new stars, and more. Here is what he had to say about WWE being in a “crisis period.” “We’re in a crisis period in WWE and we need to build new guys. When Shawn Michaels came back to Raw, he said, “Whose been built since I left?” On Smackdown we’ve built [John] Morrison and [Dolph] Ziggler and Cryme Tyme. The Intercontinental title has been rebuilt now with Rey Mysterio. But I can’t tell you on Raw who has been built over the last six months. They better do it soon, because when this generation of performers is gone, who will replace them?”

but still raw gets the highest ratings, WTF people, W.T.F?
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Old 08-21-2009, 12:09 PM   #53
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Slapping the IC title on Rey doesn't built the title.
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Old 08-21-2009, 12:10 PM   #54
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I agree with what Dave Youell said
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Old 08-21-2009, 12:13 PM   #55
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On Raw, I think its all their fault. kofi is MAD fucking over, ever since MITB has been hot as shit, and could be a legit star someday, but they dont do shit with him. They plop the US title on him, and what has he done in the way of stories? he is just in the background.

They started to bring out the Miz, and buried him under Cena.

They have no one to blame but themselves. They loaded raw with so many big names, the little guys cant step out and become stars.
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Old 08-21-2009, 12:15 PM   #56
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I think this all overblown. This "Generation" will be gone in 5 years, but will only lose HHH, HBK, Taker big Show and Jericho.

They will still have Cena, Orton, Punk, Edge, Hardy (perhaps) and the young guys they have now, who will be fine in 5 years.
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Old 08-21-2009, 12:17 PM   #57
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I think this all overblown. This "Generation" will be gone in 5 years, but will only lose HHH, HBK, Taker big Show and Jericho.

They will still have Cena, Orton, Punk, Edge, Hardy (perhaps) and the young guys they have now, who will be fine in 5 years.
oh dear, the future looks pretty sad, bar punk and edge
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Old 08-21-2009, 12:38 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Youell View Post
The problem isn't the talent, the problem is the show.

The last time anyone was 'made' on Raw was Jeff Hardy with his feud with Orton, he's the last guy to step up from the mid card scene into the main event on that show. That was 18 months ago.

Anyone that they are bringing in from other brands are being treated as inferior to not threaten the top guys spots.

Look, we all know what would need to be done, top guys, need to have proper feuds with mid card guys to get them noticed. That just doesn't happen on Raw, and that is the problem. It's the direction of the show, Orton/HHH/Cena have been the top guys on that show for 2 years now and with the above exception of Hardy (bats was on smackdown and came to Raw recently granted, he's in that club as well), no one has been allowed in that little club, I'm not blaming them, I'm blaming Vince and the booking, it's his own fault for protecting his cash cows and not trying to create new ones and now it's coming to bite him in the ass.

Now Smackdown on the other hand has been a breath of fresh air, it's re-juvinating guys you didn't care about (Knox, Finlay, Rey) and promoting guys into the spot light (Hardy, Punk) the depressing thing is, at the next draft, Raw will get the likes of Punk, Ziggler etc over there, they will do nothing with them, then it will be their fault for not getting over and they will get lost into obscurity (see Ref: MVP)

So Vince, this is your own stupid fault, how in the hell this happened is beyond me, you must have 200 wrestlers on the books and yet all you have is a handful of stars
This is true, of course. I've been saying it for ages that RAW actually has got the talent to be at least on-par with SmackDown!, but maybe when the WWE sees the guys I mentioned successful on one show so vividly then contrast to RAW, they'll make some changes.
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Old 08-21-2009, 12:39 PM   #59
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Vince needs to either step down and stfu, surround himself with people that aren't yes men and stfu, or not let his retarded little ego get in the way of hiring people and stfu.

In each case he needs to stfu.
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Old 08-21-2009, 12:42 PM   #60
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Quote:
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On Raw, I think its all their fault. kofi is MAD fucking over, ever since MITB has been hot as shit, and could be a legit star someday, but they dont do shit with him. They plop the US title on him, and what has he done in the way of stories? he is just in the background.

They started to bring out the Miz, and buried him under Cena.

They have no one to blame but themselves. They loaded raw with so many big names, the little guys cant step out and become stars.
I truly believe Kofi Kingston should be teaming with Triple H at Summerslam to face Legacy. DX is all well and good, but why not try and sell some Triple H shirts and some Kofi shirts by putting those two together for a match? Shawn Michaels could have stayed off and had a more impressive comeback, and Kofi could have gotten a big moment in the sun with Triple H.

And by the way, no, I do not really believe that the WWE will learn when they fuck up with the next bunch of talent they draft over to RAW -- they haven't before. The contrast between SmackDown! and RAW has been more prominently clear than it has been since the Heyman days, though.

Which reminds me: Heyman booking one show; Hayes the other. Now there is an interesting WWE landscape for ya.
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Old 08-21-2009, 12:43 PM   #61
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what if vince 'future endeavored' himself? would it be like dividing by zero?
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Old 08-21-2009, 12:46 PM   #62
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I truly believe Kofi Kingston should be teaming with Triple H at Summerslam to face Legacy. DX is all well and good, but why not try and sell some Triple H shirts and some Kofi shirts by putting those two together for a match? Shawn Michaels could have stayed off and had a more impressive comeback, and Kofi could have gotten a big moment in the sun with Triple H.

And by the way, no, I do not really believe that the WWE will learn when they fuck up with the next bunch of talent they draft over to RAW -- they haven't before. The contrast between SmackDown! and RAW has been more prominently clear than it has been since the Heyman days, though.

Which reminds me: Heyman booking one show; Hayes the other. Now there is an interesting WWE landscape for ya.
I actaully think that would work, kofi and triple h. Micheals should only be used when it is dire or mania. They have plenty of talent if they just used it.
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Old 08-21-2009, 12:52 PM   #63
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I actaully think that would work, kofi and triple h. Micheals should only be used when it is dire or mania. They have plenty of talent if they just used it.
Even if they wanted to use Michaels regularly, it just works against them a bit to keep HBK and Triple H contained to programs in the same space. While Triple H is feuding with someone, HBK can be doing something else.

It sort of upsets me that for HBK's return we didn't get Sexy Boy, either. I think Shawn Michaels is important enough to warrant his own comeback.
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Old 08-21-2009, 12:56 PM   #64
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The whole DX thing loses impact when it is done ever 6 months.
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Old 08-21-2009, 12:59 PM   #65
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The WWE would still sell DX shirts even if they don't do the reunion shit every couple of months, wouldn't they? Can't they just do one backstage segment together, and pump a new shirt, before going back to their own thing?

One thing that really annoyed me about DX since it's been back, and I'm not sure if you'll agree with me because you might feel that it is for Kliq guys, but there have been no real attempts to actually use the DX name, and get new members in, to aid in them getting over.

I think anyone that joins up with DX is instantly going to be a massive face for the company, and can move some t-shirts of their own.
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Old 08-21-2009, 01:03 PM   #66
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There is no reason to nWo DX. Hell they did that once already. I think they should keep DX as HHH and HBK. I would have no problem with them calling up X-Pac, Billy Gunn, Road Dogg or anyone else like that for a big D-X reunion, but not adding new people that this point.
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Old 08-21-2009, 01:03 PM   #67
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Quote:
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The WWE would still sell DX shirts even if they don't do the reunion shit every couple of months, wouldn't they? Can't they just do one backstage segment together, and pump a new shirt, before going back to their own thing?

One thing that really annoyed me about DX since it's been back, and I'm not sure if you'll agree with me because you might feel that it is for Kliq guys, but there have been no real attempts to actually use the DX name, and get new members in, to aid in them getting over.

I think anyone that joins up with DX is instantly going to be a massive face for the company, and can move some t-shirts of their own.

disregard my post
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Old 08-21-2009, 01:04 PM   #68
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Shut up kareru. They have said it. I heard it just tuesday night.
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Old 08-21-2009, 01:05 PM   #69
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Shut up kareru. They have said it. I heard it just tuesday night.
thats why i said disregard my post
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Old 08-21-2009, 01:07 PM   #70
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I was telling you to shut up before you said that, you nitpicky bastard. You don't have points so much as just focusing on the little itty bitty details that actaully aren't the major problem.
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Old 08-21-2009, 01:10 PM   #71
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I was telling you to shut up before you said that, you nitpicky bastard. You don't have points so much as just focusing on the little itty bitty details that actaully aren't the major problem.
its the little problems that make the major ones more noticeable
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Old 08-21-2009, 01:11 PM   #72
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BDC, thank god your back.
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Old 08-21-2009, 01:14 PM   #73
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eh...I won't be back for long.
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Old 08-21-2009, 01:15 PM   #74
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its the little problems that make the major ones more noticeable
No it isn't. The major problems are what make the major ones noticable.
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Old 08-21-2009, 01:18 PM   #75
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Slapping the IC title on Rey doesn't built the title.
Well it's being booked better right now than it has in years.
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Old 08-21-2009, 01:20 PM   #76
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Being booked as more than a back ground thing is building it more than slapping it on Rey. They slapped on more important stars(I would have said bigger, but we all know Rey is the smallest) with no effect because they don't book the title. So as long as they are doing somethign with it, that is rebuilding it, not the slapping it on an established star.
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Old 08-21-2009, 01:30 PM   #77
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Well the truth is that Mysterio should never have been WHC and should have been IC champ a long time ago. I don't really want Rey in the ME scene, so this works.
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Old 08-21-2009, 01:30 PM   #78
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Plus, when was the last time the IC title actually main evented a Raw or SD before Rey became Champ?
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Old 08-21-2009, 01:32 PM   #79
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I think your dislike for Mysterio is clouding your judgment here. Mysterio has definitely brought cred back to the IC title.
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Old 08-21-2009, 01:34 PM   #80
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Well the truth is that Mysterio should never have been WHC and should have been IC champ a long time ago. I don't really want Rey in the ME scene, so this works.
Rey was never WHC
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Plus, when was the last time the IC title actually main evented a Raw or SD before Rey became Champ?
I'm not sure
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I think your dislike for Mysterio is clouding your judgment here. Mysterio has definitely brought cred back to the IC title.
It probably has more to do with the booking of Rey being a proud champion instead of it just being some prop.
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