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Old 11-24-2015, 08:36 PM   #241
ron the dial
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network subs aren't really a great indicator of why people are signing up. is it for new content or the old content? to use that as an indicator of anything other than revenue, we'd need the number of views on the videos available.

yes, having a successful network is great for business, but how much is based on nostalgia and how much on the current product? i'd be more interested in knowing that.
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Old 11-24-2015, 08:43 PM   #242
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You know if WWE wanted to make more money off the network they should sell timeslots to promotions they good with. Promotions like Reality of Wrestling and Evolve would be great in the network. Probably won't but its just a thought I had.
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Old 11-24-2015, 08:45 PM   #243
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For some comparisons, this was last year's viewership for the same week:

Quote:
RAW November 24th, 2014
Hour one - 4.73 million
Hour two - 3.99 million
Hour three - 4.01 million
Average - 4.23 million
Massive drop even by the usual comparisons (around 250k-500k drop average yearly).
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Old 11-24-2015, 09:38 PM   #244
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Ha!

I hope they keep dropping.
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Old 11-24-2015, 09:42 PM   #245
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network subscriptions though guys. It makes up for all of it. ALLLLLL OF IT
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Old 11-25-2015, 07:40 AM   #246
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I watch NXT on TV over here. If they dropped it, I'd probably just stop watching. Sincerely can't stand WWE's main product more than I love NXT. Vince and Kevin Dunn pretty much plucked all the talent I was really invested in from NXT anyway.
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Old 11-25-2015, 07:40 AM   #247
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I couldn't even bring myself to watch Survivor Series for free on Sunday.
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Old 11-25-2015, 07:46 AM   #248
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick Foley View Post
I’m going to quote an article from July, 2014, called “The Sad Case Of Zack Ryder” in which I wrote: “Eventually, people get tired of finding out that the WWE Superstars they have supported with their cheers, their signs, their purchases, their follows, and their likes aren’t real Superstars – and, little by little, those fans lose interest in WWE, find other interests, and become former WWE fans.”

I am one of those people on the verge of becoming a former WWE fan. I’m tired of being told through Raw, Smackdown and PPV’s that WWE superstars I have rooted for – from Ziggler to Cesaro to Kevin Owens aren’t top stars – no matter how strongly crowd reaction seems to disagree. I’m tired of NXT stars getting their big “break” in WWE, just to be treated like jokes.

Six months ago, my son and I traveled 12 hours – from Eastern Tennessee to Orlando, Florida to watch Sasha Banks wrestle Becky Lynch at ‪#‎NXTTakeover‬.- One of the greatest women’s matches of all time. Last night, in what I believe was their first singles match on ‪#‎RAW‬ Sasha and Becky were given four minutes. At a time when WWE desperately needs to make new stars – when they need to give wrestlers with talent the opportunity to break through – they gave Sasha and Becky four minutes. I turned the channel, and watched a pretty good football game instead. I think I can get used to watching football games on Monday night again.

I will be watching RAW this Monday. Maybe, as is often the case in relationships, they will give me just enough to remind me why I love wrestling – just enough to keep me coming back. Maybe they will even give Sasha and Becky a rematch – and a legitimate chance to show the world what they can do.

There is an old saying in politics : as Ohio goes, so goes the nation. Think of me as the Ohio of wrestling fans. If I leave, it’s not just one disgruntled former fan; finding something else to do on Monday nights. Instead, my leaving might well be an indication of a larger exodus from WWE.

I want to stay. I really do. So please WWE – next week on WWE Raw… Just give me a reason.
I pretty much agree with all of this -- right down to Sasha Banks vs. Becky Lynch being one of the best women's matches I have ever seen. It is probably my favorite match from this entire year. I am far more into Becky's character than Bayley's.

Calling Becky up to the main roster has been bittersweet. Sure, it's great to see her making money on the big stage; but it felt like she had so much left to achieve in her program with Sasha Banks. I would have loved to have seen them get to compete in the first-ever women's Ladder Match officially sanctioned by the WWE, or in the Iron Man Match.

But anyway, what does Mick Foley know about wrestling, right?
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Old 11-25-2015, 07:47 AM   #249
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On a happier note, here's a picture of Noelle Foley:
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Old 11-25-2015, 08:01 AM   #250
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Wrestling has become the most predictable thing ever. Even the most diehard fans of "technical wrestling" can't only watch for well executed hammerlocks? Actual storytelling is still needed and there doesn't seem to be any anymore. So it's no surprise their ratings are dropping.

I've not watched an episode of Raw in years, and I've seen only 2-3 Ppv matches in about 3 or 4 years. Yet I watched Survivor Series after hearing there'd be a tournament plus a Taker "anniversary match" and I knew who was going to win every match. There's nothing of interest happening.
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Old 11-25-2015, 08:48 AM   #251
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Guys Vince expected this, of course it was going to drop below the 3 million mark. There is a lot of ways to consume media these days through streaming sites for example. This is good news for WWE, 2 million is bigger than 1 million right? No other wrestling company is even at the 1 million mark. [/CyNick]
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Old 11-25-2015, 08:58 AM   #252
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noid View Post
On a happier note, here's a picture of Noelle Foley:
How somebody that attractive sprang from the loins of Mick Foley I'll never know.
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Old 11-25-2015, 09:51 AM   #253
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well his wife is a gorgeous model lol
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Old 11-25-2015, 11:24 AM   #254
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For some perspective:

MNF featured the undefeated New England Patriots, one of the biggest draws in the sport. As a result MNF had more than 2 million viewers WoW or a 17% gain.

RAW lost 300K viewers WoW or a 10% decline in viewership. Keep in mind, this is before any DVR numbers are calculated.

Another show I track on Monday's is this Love and Hip Hop show on VH1 which does well on Mondays. It was down 13% in viewership. I tried to see if there was panick on the L&HH message board, but couldn't find the thread on ratings. Its a good indication that RAW wasn't so much bad, as MNF just had the game that casual fans felt was can't miss.

RAW was as usual one of the top 3 most watched things on cable on Monday night. It usually hovers between #2 and #3, depending on how well Sportscenter does (up 9% this week). Clearly football was devastating to RAW this week, but it'll be intetesting to see if the DVR numbers make up some of the decline WoW. That said, declines are never a good thing, but context is important.
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Old 11-25-2015, 11:28 AM   #255
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noid View Post
I pretty much agree with all of this -- right down to Sasha Banks vs. Becky Lynch being one of the best women's matches I have ever seen. It is probably my favorite match from this entire year. I am far more into Becky's character than Bayley's.

Calling Becky up to the main roster has been bittersweet. Sure, it's great to see her making money on the big stage; but it felt like she had so much left to achieve in her program with Sasha Banks. I would have loved to have seen them get to compete in the first-ever women's Ladder Match officially sanctioned by the WWE, or in the Iron Man Match.

But anyway, what does Mick Foley know about wrestling, right?
He fits right in with the IWC.

He doesn't understand the conplexities of booking, just wants the 2 or 3 people he likes to be pushed to the moon.

It's funny, he complains about Cesaro, it looked to me like Cesaro was about to get pushed, and he gets injured. How is that WWEs fault?

As for the girls, hey I look at the positive, they got two segments on the show. The focus is on the title. The Paige-Charlotte match was good, and set up a future match. The other girls will get their time to shine eventually.
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Old 11-25-2015, 11:30 AM   #256
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorgeous Dale Newstead View Post
network subscriptions though guys. It makes up for all of it. ALLLLLL OF IT
How about record intetest from advertisers.

I would recommend reading some articles about viewership on cable. It will give you a better understanding.
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Old 11-25-2015, 11:30 AM   #257
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Ha!

I hope they keep dropping.
Why?
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Old 11-25-2015, 11:43 AM   #258
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Maluco got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Maluco got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Maluco got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Maluco got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Maluco got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Maluco got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Maluco got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Maluco got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Maluco got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Maluco got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Maluco got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Maluco got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)
It's sad that Cynicks arguments are inevitably the ones that are being made at the top of WWE too. Just churn out the next batch of samsie TV, nothing exciting, keep the motor running...Cena will be back soon and we can rely on him again. It's sad.
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Old 11-25-2015, 11:45 AM   #259
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
How about record intetest from advertisers.

I would recommend reading some articles about viewership on cable. It will give you a better understanding.
irrelevant to what we're arguing. You're talking finance, we're talking about actual viewership of the product.

Network subscriptions going up could have very little to do with the actual product. Same with advertisers. IN FACT advertisers being interested in television series can have a lot to do with an actual decline in the integrity of a product depending on how you look at it.


#fatherknowsbest
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Old 11-25-2015, 11:47 AM   #260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
How about record intetest from advertisers.

I would recommend reading some articles about viewership on cable. It will give you a better understanding.
Yeah because advertisers determine if the product is any good. Do you read your post sometimes. KFC and Hardee's are advertising on WWE programing, the product is great.
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Old 11-25-2015, 11:50 AM   #261
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Well the stance is this. We are looking at it from an art stand point, CyNick is looking at it from a business standpoint.

Now I know he'll tell you a bunch of horseshit about how he enjoys the product, but that is clearly because he is a troglodyte.
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Old 11-25-2015, 12:04 PM   #262
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorgeous Dale Newstead View Post
he is a troglodyte.

For those visual learners:
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Old 11-25-2015, 12:07 PM   #263
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorgeous Dale Newstead View Post
irrelevant to what we're arguing. You're talking finance, we're talking about actual viewership of the product.

Network subscriptions going up could have very little to do with the actual product. Same with advertisers. IN FACT advertisers being interested in television series can have a lot to do with an actual decline in the integrity of a product depending on how you look at it.


#fatherknowsbest
At the end of the day, the WWE just wants to generate TV rights fee money. If more advertisers are interested in RAW, in theory it means USA will pay more for the rights fees. When RAW was getting 6 million viewers every week, the problem was because the product was so low rent, interest from advertisers was low.

In recent years WWE has made an effort to make the product more appealing to advertisers. Possibly at the expense of some viewers. But the net effect has been higher TV rights fees. As long as those are going in the right direction, WWE is happy.

Again, and this point will be glossed over or ignored in your response, that isn't to say a 10% WoW decline is positive, you just have to understand the bigger picture.
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Old 11-25-2015, 12:10 PM   #264
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Originally Posted by Maluco View Post
It's sad that Cynicks arguments are inevitably the ones that are being made at the top of WWE too. Just churn out the next batch of samsie TV, nothing exciting, keep the motor running...Cena will be back soon and we can rely on him again. It's sad.
Not to beat a dead horse but if you have WWE the choice of higher ratings or higher revenues, they will always take higher revenues.

Revenues continue to grow, so overall, things are positive. Maybe the ratings are an indication of future revenue decline, but it could also be an indication of a bunch of other factors as well (ie overall decline in TV viewership).
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Old 11-25-2015, 12:12 PM   #265
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Originally Posted by Simple Fan View Post
Yeah because advertisers determine if the product is any good. Do you read your post sometimes. KFC and Hardee's are advertising on WWE programing, the product is great.
I watched RAW, I enjoyed it. But that's just a matter of opinion. It would be a waste of time to try to convince someone to like something they dislike.

I'm just trying to put TV numbers in perspective.
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Old 11-25-2015, 12:13 PM   #266
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Ha!

I hope they keep dropping.
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Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
Why?
So maybe they start to realize that the product is not connecting with the fans. You can say all you want about how business is good but that has nothing to with the programing. Sheamus is champion that jobbed to Kalisto in the tournamrnt, Reigns is being force fed to the WWE Universe, and WWE has shit the bed building any new star power.
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Old 11-25-2015, 12:14 PM   #267
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Originally Posted by Gorgeous Dale Newstead View Post
Well the stance is this. We are looking at it from an art stand point, CyNick is looking at it from a business standpoint.

Now I know he'll tell you a bunch of horseshit about how he enjoys the product, but that is clearly because he is a troglodyte.
If I didn't like the product, I wouldnt watch. It would seem really odd to watch week after week, talk about it day after day in here, to then say oh I actually hate every minute of the show. What a waste of time that would be.
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Old 11-25-2015, 12:15 PM   #268
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lol oh jeez

You realize we all know this right? You aren't exactly reinventing our knowledge wheel. We understand many of the decisions made and why the production is the way it is. That doesn't mean we need to appreciate steaming piles of crap heaped in front of us.

For instance, we understand why the commentators no longer really story tell or commentate matches. They need to SHILL SHILL SHILL because of the advertising and the pace they have to move at. We get it. It's a tough fucking job with the expectations placed in front of them. It doesn't make it any less soul less.

WWE is a money making machine, it's not wrestling. Many of us like wrestling. We also like Sports Entertainment, and stories which we can really take a bite out of. But that means the stories being told have to speak to us. Which they don't. Because the product isn't very good, because it doesn't have to be. Because they won years and years and years ago. So instead of appealing to people with half a brain and making a decent cohesive product, they appeal to advertisers for higher tv fees. That's fine. But that doesn't mean the product is good. Which you love to argue.

Mind you, if you enjoy it that's your deal. Fine. Cool. Amazing. It's great that you have no taste.
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Old 11-25-2015, 12:16 PM   #269
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
If I didn't like the product, I wouldnt watch. It would seem really odd to watch week after week, talk about it day after day in here, to then say oh I actually hate every minute of the show. What a waste of time that would be.
hahahahaha you do realize most of us don't really watch right? We are just life long wrassling fans and have posted here since we were pre-teens. You fucking weirdo.
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Old 11-25-2015, 12:17 PM   #270
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Sorry before you try "strengthen" your argument. We keep up but we don't watch. Because we love wrestling. But we don't sit around watching RAW knowing we hate it. We love wrestling and WWE is all there really is in the main stream. So we gripe about it because we're passionate on something we always loved growing up.


Okay now tell me how I don't understand and am a lesser being than you.
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Old 11-25-2015, 12:18 PM   #271
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The CyNick735611
I watched RAW, I enjoyed it. But that's just a matter of opinion. It would be a waste of time to try to convince someone to like something they dislike.

I'm just trying to put TV numbers in perspective.
Its not that we diskike the WWE, we are wrestling fans that enjoy the genre of entertainment and WWE just are not connecting with us at the moment.
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Old 11-25-2015, 12:18 PM   #272
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Originally Posted by Simple Fan View Post
So maybe they start to realize that the product is not connecting with the fans. You can say all you want about how business is good but that has nothing to with the programing. Sheamus is champion that jobbed to Kalisto in the tournamrnt, Reigns is being force fed to the WWE Universe, and WWE has shit the bed building any new star power.
WWE feels Roman is a guy they can build around. You obviously disagree, but WWE had a plan and they are trying to see it through. As a person who watches week after week, I prefer when they slowly build someone up, like they are doing with Roman. If he fails, you try something else.

WWE has also had a ton of bad luck recently, which spoiled some short term plans.
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Old 11-25-2015, 12:24 PM   #273
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Roman does fail every time he picks up a mic. Vince is dead set on pushing the guy that doesn't deserve the push he's getting.
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Old 11-25-2015, 12:24 PM   #274
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorgeous Dale Newstead View Post
lol oh jeez

You realize we all know this right? You aren't exactly reinventing our knowledge wheel. We understand many of the decisions made and why the production is the way it is. That doesn't mean we need to appreciate steaming piles of crap heaped in front of us.

For instance, we understand why the commentators no longer really story tell or commentate matches. They need to SHILL SHILL SHILL because of the advertising and the pace they have to move at. We get it. It's a tough fucking job with the expectations placed in front of them. It doesn't make it any less soul less.

WWE is a money making machine, it's not wrestling. Many of us like wrestling. We also like Sports Entertainment, and stories which we can really take a bite out of. But that means the stories being told have to speak to us. Which they don't. Because the product isn't very good, because it doesn't have to be. Because they won years and years and years ago. So instead of appealing to people with half a brain and making a decent cohesive product, they appeal to advertisers for higher tv fees. That's fine. But that doesn't mean the product is good. Which you love to argue.

Mind you, if you enjoy it that's your deal. Fine. Cool. Amazing. It's great that you have no taste.
You claim to understand the reason behind decisions, yet you're in this thread acting like a 10% decline in viewers is a major event.

WWE to be successful needs to appeal to a wide base. What's intetesting is people like you think your opinion on the current state of the product is the right one. When someone like me comes along and says I actually like the show, I am the villain. I've never once told anyone they are WRONG for disliking the product. Yet, you claim I have no taste.

It's funny to me that you guys get worked up that a weekly viewer of RAW actually enjoys RAW.
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Old 11-25-2015, 12:27 PM   #275
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Wow you're casting a lot of emotions on me big guy.

You're allowed to enjoy the product, we're allowed to bring up reasons we think you're wrong.

And I don't think it's the end of the world. I just think it's indicative of the fact that they aren't producing quality. They're the only game in town so the ratings will be back. But once again #fatherknowsbest
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Old 11-25-2015, 12:28 PM   #276
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Really hate how Reigns was champion for 5 minutes and has never held another singles title and has an automatic rematch already. What has Roman done to deserve a rematch? It just lazy booking and storytelling.
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Old 11-25-2015, 12:28 PM   #277
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorgeous Dale Newstead View Post
hahahahaha you do realize most of us don't really watch right? We are just life long wrassling fans and have posted here since we were pre-teens. You fucking weirdo.
Right, but you guys who "dont watch" can site the result of every single match from every RAW.

if you actually don't watch, then you should have no opinion on the product. I dont go on a Bachelor message board and say the show currently sucks because I watched it 7 years ago. It would be ignorant.
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Old 11-25-2015, 12:29 PM   #278
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorgeous Dale Newstead View Post
Wow you're casting a lot of emotions on me big guy.

You're allowed to enjoy the product, we're allowed to bring up reasons we think you're wrong.

And I don't think it's the end of the world. I just think it's indicative of the fact that they aren't producing quality. They're the only game in town so the ratings will be back. But once again #fatherknowsbest
You can come up with reasons I am wrong to enjoy something? You are some next level narcissist.
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Old 11-25-2015, 12:30 PM   #279
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simple Fan View Post
Roman does fail every time he picks up a mic. Vince is dead set on pushing the guy that doesn't deserve the push he's getting.
So why do you think Vince is dead set on pushing him? Is he trying to lose money?
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Old 11-25-2015, 12:33 PM   #280
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So why do you think Vince is dead set on pushing him? Is he trying to lose money?

His look. That has always been his thing.
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