Leno Moving Back to 11:30

[Zeeboe]

Originally Posted by Buzzkill Think about it zeeboe, I'm sure 85% of TPWW is on Conan's side, but that doesn't prove shit

Over 42,000 people post here?

[Buzzkill]

The point isn't the sample size, it's the audience.

If TPWW had 42,000 people, I'm sure it would still be 85% for Conan

[What Would Kevin Do?]

Originally Posted by Buzzkill The point isn't the sample size, it's the audience. If TPWW had 42,000 people, I'm sure it would still be 85% for Conan

This.

Look at the support he was getting on Twitter. Look at the support he was getting on facebook. One Facebook group for Conan has over 710,000 followers, where the biggest Leno group I can find doesn't even have 50,000.

You're going to get different % with different audiences. Obviously AOL doesn't reflect the real world. Obviously Facebook doesn't reflect the real world. At best they represent demographics.

[Zeeboe]

Originally Posted by Buzzkill The point isn't the sample size, it's the audience. If TPWW had 42,000 people, I'm sure it would still be 85% for Conan

But it doesn't. That's the thing - The show failed because the ratings were not there. Not enough people were watching. I don't know why Jay would get the blame for it since his show was the number one show before he left. So people were watching him. It was when things changed, that the ratings dropped. While people stopped watching Jay on prime time, I do not know, except maybe most people had other things going at that time. I honestly don't know. People weren't watching Conan either. I think NBC fixed this problem the best way they could.

[Zeeboe]

Originally Posted by What Would Kevin Do? This. Look at the support he was getting on Twitter. Look at the support he was getting on facebook. One Facebook group for Conan has over 710,000 followers, where the biggest Leno group I can find doesn't even have 50,000. You're going to get different % with different audiences. Obviously AOL doesn't reflect the real world. Obviously Facebook doesn't reflect the real world. At best they represent demographics.

Facebook, AOL, TPWW, Twitter, MySpace....whatever.....the point is, no one was watching. Where were all these people when Conan needed them, huh?

[Buzzkill]

I was just talking about your use of the AOL poll, not what's at the root of the issue.

[Zeeboe]

Originally Posted by Buzzkill I was just talking about your use of the AOL poll, not what's at the root of the issue.

I was just bringing up some of the numbers that support Leno, and the difference between my numbers, and the other posted is that those people clearly had a much bigger impact because look at what happened.

Most of those people didn't even jump on the band wagon until all of this stuff happened.

[Champion of Europa]

FACT In the September 27, 2004 issue of Entertainment Weekly Leno said the following:

"In 2009, I'll be 59 years-old and will have had this dream job for 17 years...When I signed my new contract, I felt that the timing was right to plan for my successor, and there is no one more qualified than Conan. Plus, I promised [my wife] Mavis I would take her out for dinner before I turned 60."

FACT On March 4, 2007, according to the New York Post, the Leno does an about face and is unhappy about NBC's plans to replace him with Conan in 2009.

FACT On July 15, 2008 the Huffington Post reported:

"…on Monday's Tonight Show, Jay Leno hinted at a possible future with ABC while reading the segment, "Headlines." Leno held up a TVWeek cover that said "The Tonight Show with Jay Leno…starring Jay Leno on ABC." Then, Leno joked, "It's like a headline from the future!"

Soon after The Jay Leno Show is announced, an idea championed by Jeff "Sucker" Zucker.

Jay Leno's show didn't die because people were off doing other things. It died because the show was a critical and popular disaster.

If by "doing other things" you meant watching shows that didn't suck, then yes. They were.

Conan's ratings were not as good because Jay Leno killed NBC's audience as a lead in and he had no time to establish a new fanbase in his new slot, like Leno did previously.

These are all things that were already mentioned, and are facts.

[What Would Kevin Do?]

Originally Posted by Zeeboe Facebook, AOL, TPWW, Twitter, MySpace....whatever.....the point is, no one was watching. Where were all these people when Conan needed them, huh?

Another thing to consider. Conan caters to a younger crowd... A younger crowd that A. probably makes up a smaller percentage of Nielson households, and B. a younger crowd that watches TV on the internet, along with DVRs/Tivo, etc...

Reported ratings aren't the only reason this happen. The primary reason this happened was because the local affiliates were not happy with Leno. People were fine with Conan. This really has very little to do with Conan. Leno gave bad lead ins to the news, local affiliates got mad and complained. NBC knew it would have to cancel Leno, but they didn't want to lose him, so they moved him.

This was never about people not watching Conan to begin with.

[screech]

Zeeboe is just mad because people here don't like Jay Leno.

[screech]

Like I said:

Originally Posted by screech And if NBC would put on some decent programming (outside of late night of course), they wouldn't need the star power of Leno so desperately.

If this would have happened, Leno could have retired (or gone to ABC or whatever). NBC would not have had to do so much to keep him because their ratings wouldn't (theoretically) have been in the shitter at this point.

[Vastardikai]

Just imagine the ratings Leno would have had in those first couple of years if NBC had decided to dedicate all their time promoting a Johnny Carson prime time show, which was a watered down version of his classic Tonight Show.

[Zeeboe]

Originally Posted by What Would Kevin Do? Another thing to consider. Conan caters to a younger crowd... A younger crowd that A. probably makes up a smaller percentage of Nielson households, and B. a younger crowd that watches TV on the internet, along with DVRs/Tivo, etc... Reported ratings aren't the only reason this happen. The primary reason this happened was because the local affiliates were not happy with Leno. People were fine with Conan. This really has very little to do with Conan. Leno gave bad lead ins to the news, local affiliates got mad and complained. NBC knew it would have to cancel Leno, but they didn't want to lose him, so they moved him. This was never about people not watching Conan to begin with.

But Leno was doing good in the ratings before he left. Conan also had all summer to do his thing, and the ratings were not there. They sent Jay in for clean-up duty last fall, and even he couldn't help.

Conan's ratings were already down LONG before Jay Leno was sent in to go to the rescue. So again, Jay was not at fault. He tried to help Conan.

Originally Posted by Vastardikai Just imagine the ratings Leno would have had in those first couple of years if NBC had decided to dedicate all their time promoting a Johnny Carson prime time show, which was a watered down version of his classic Tonight Show.

There actually were rumors of Carson doing Prime Time TV, but he decided against it.

Originally Posted by screech Zeeboe is just mad because people here don't like Jay Leno.

lol. Are you 14-years old or something? Seriously, that reminds me of something a kid would say. Because that is how a 14-year old would think.

I'm not mad at anyone. What do I have to be mad about? My guy won. All I'm doing is defending Leno. I don't care if people dislike him, but when untrue comments are posted, I'm going to speak up.

Originally Posted by screech If this would have happened, Leno could have retired (or gone to ABC or whatever). NBC would not have had to do so much to keep him because their ratings wouldn't (theoretically) have been in the shitter at this point.

......You're really not getting it. So I'm gonna bold this. Please read the following -

Jay Leno couldn't have retired or gone to ABC. He was under contract with NBC, and they would not let him go. The Prime Time show was NBC's idea. Not Jay's. Jay WANTED to move on, but NBC would not allow it.

That's the one thing some of the Leno haters do not get or understand. (or do not want to get) Goes to show how little some of them know about the entertaiment business, and how things are done, or they just wanna change what is to fit their own belief's.

Don't be mad at Jay. Be mad at NBC for messing this up, and the rest of the country for not watching Conan's show. Jay is just an innocent scapegoat for all this. I feel bad for Conan, but I feel bad for Jay too. He was just doing what he was told, and he's taking the heat for NBC.

[thedamndest]

Conan’s last turn as host of The Tonight Show garnered a 4.8 rating with adults 18-49 in the 25 local markets with Nielsen people meters.
If those numbers hold up, not only is it a series high with adults 18-49 it’s 85% higher than the previous series high set Thursday night (2.6 rating), it’s over 40 percent better than the 3.4 rating with adults 18-49 Jay Leno got in his not-so-final Tonight Show after all on May 29. Leno’s not-so-final episode also scored nearly 12 million viewers. Viewer numbers for last night’s episode won’t be available until late next week.
Not only was it better than all the late night and primetime competition on Friday — not really a huge feat with most networks broadcasting the Hope for Haiti Now benefit between 8p-10p, it was also a better 18-49 rating than any show got on Thursday night.
Update: the previous series high, at least in final numbers (again the numbers above are preliminary) was a 3.8 rating with adults 18-49 for Conan’s Tonight Show premiere last June.


http://tvbythenumbers.com/category/ratings/late-night

[screech]

Originally Posted by Zeeboe lol. Are you 14-years old or something? Seriously, that reminds me of something a kid would say. Because that is how a 14-year old would think.

Sarcasm is a beautiful thing.

[James Steele]

Once again, Zeeboe shows his expertise in the topic of 14 year-olds.

[Zeeboe]

Originally Posted by screech Sarcasm is a beautiful thing.

So twice now when called on your BS, you claim you're being sarcastic. I think it's time to either stop lying, or learn how to be better at sarcasm.

Originally Posted by James Steele Once again, Zeeboe shows his expertise in the topic of 14 year-olds.

No, it's just that I was 14 once.

Originally Posted by Jura It seems there are a lot of things that you aren't getting. The AOL crowd, 40 and over or not, is only a small percentage of the entire viewing population that watches these talk shows. This is what you need to understand. Someone could put a poll somewhere else and it wont be the same. And Leno could have left if he wanted. I even watched his show where he explained what went down between him and NBC. In fact in that interview it seemed like he just went with the flow and mentioned many times about NBC wanting to fire him. It sounded like he wanted to leave and he could have but he just went okay whatever I'll take the job at 10pm. Oh my show isn't doing so well? I see and you want to move me to 11:30 and push Conan back? Okay I guess. Now where are my pants?

I'm not sure what clip you watched, but the clip I saw was the one where NBC asked Jay to leave, and he agreed even though he was kicking butt in the ratings. Then it was NBC who offered him a prime time show, and he accepted since he was still under contract, and had a crew of people that needed work. And then when NBC went through their issues, they asked Jay to help, and he came to rescue again. He just did what any good worker does.

Again, I love Conan, but he could have been a team player, and given the idea a shot. If it didn't work out, I'm sure NBC would have tried to come up with something else. Who knows, maybe they would have shown Jay the door, but because Conan could not wait out the storm, he lost the Tonight Show. He let pride get in the way, and that is why some consider pride a sin.

[screech]

Originally Posted by Zeeboe Jay Leno couldn't have retired or gone to ABC. He was under contract with NBC, and they would not let him go. The Prime Time show was NBC's idea. Not Jay's. Jay WANTED to move on, but NBC would not allow it.

People can opt out of contracts. People can reject new contract offers. It happens all the time. When he decided to hand the show over to Conan, he could have told NBC that he no longer wanted to be on television. What he would/would not have done after that would have been his decision, not NBC's. If he really wanted to go to ABC or anywhere else, he could have gotten out of his contract (though it probably would not have been easy) and done it.

NBC, in what would normally be a smart move since Jay usually is a draw, decided to do whatever it took to keep him. Even at this stage, Jay could have said: "No thanks. I'd like to walk away from TV and spend more time at home." He did not, and thus his not-so-great 10PM show was born, and now here we are with what has just transpired.

I'm not a moron, despite what you may think. I have an idea of how business works. I am merely calling you out on making ridiculous statements and getting butthurt over people doing the same.

[Nark Order]

Zeeboe, you aren't making me like Jay Leno right now.

[screech]

Originally Posted by Zeeboe So twice now when called on your BS, you claim you're being sarcastic. I think it's time to either stop lying, or learn how to be better at sarcasm.

Humor me: What exactly have I lied about here?

[screech]

Originally Posted by Narcissus Zeeboe, you aren't making me like Jay Leno you right now.

Is that more BS, Zeeboe? Apparently every other word that comes from me is.

[Zeeboe]

Originally Posted by screech Is that more BS, Zeeboe? Apparently every other word that comes from me is.

Being popular has never been a concern of mine. Being right, and standing up against injustice however is.

Originally Posted by Narcissus Zeeboe, you aren't making me like Jay Leno right now.

That's not my goal. What I'm trying to convince you guys that Jay Leno is not at fault here. What are you guys trying to convince me of exactly? Because this keeps going in circles. Twice now, I've tried to bottom line this, but some of you guys keep coming back with the same old stuff.

What's done is done. No amount of debating is going to change anything.

[Nark Order]

Originally Posted by Zeeboe That's not my goal. What I'm trying to convince you guys that Jay Leno is not at fault here. What are you guys trying to convince me of exactly? Because this keeps going in circles. Twice now, I've tried to bottom line this, but some of you guys keep coming back with the same old stuff. What's done is done. No amount of debating is going to change anything.

Not sure why you think your "facts" are more valid than anybody elses. Fact is, you're claiming that alot of us are biased in favor of Conan but it's quite obvious that you're biased in favor of the opposition. So, even if you're correct about us favoring Conan, your position isn't any better.

[screech]

Just for the record, I never said Jay had a hand in all of this. I suspect he did, and can't help but wonder if he did, but I never outrightly accused him.

There is a difference, in case some have trouble with that.

[screech]

Originally Posted by Narcissus Not sure why you think your "facts" are more valid than anybody elses. Fact is, you're claiming that alot of us are biased in favor of Conan but it's quite obvious that you're biased in favor of the opposition. So, even if you're correct about us favoring Conan, your position isn't any better.

[Zeeboe]

Pss, screech. You're nose is brown, dude.

Originally Posted by Narcissus Not sure why you think your "facts" are more valid than anybody elses. Fact is, you're claiming that alot of us are biased in favor of Conan but it's quite obvious that you're biased in favor of the opposition. So, even if you're correct about us favoring Conan, your position isn't any better.

I've posted several times that I love Conan, and I loved his show. I love Conan so much, I'll post it all again.....no copy and paste job here by the way.....I don't fault for Conan for any of this. I am guessing sadly America and the mainstream was not into Conan's style of comedy. I fault NBC for this error, and I think Conan took a shot he needed to take, otherwise he never would have known what would have happened. He sadly missed, and I do feel bad for him, and wish the Tonight Show would have worked out for him because he's a good and funny guy who deserved to host it. I really hope he overcomes all this.

I get my facts from Jay's POV. Now I know some of you may not see that as a good source, but the reason why I do not doubt it is because no one else has come along, and called BS on it. I also think there could be some legal issues perhaps if Jay was lying.

Again, my message is not to blame Jay for what happened. He's a nice guy, and I've been following his career for a long time, and I can assure you, if I know anything about him, and I've read his bio, and many other things about him over the years, interviews and such, and I am betting Jay has probably lost some sleep over all this, feels horrible for Conan, and he probably sees him getting his show back as nothing more then a Pyrrhic victory.

[Indifferent Clox]

cable ratings are archaic, a lot of people don't catch shit on tv, and if they do it'sthrough dvr. It seems our age group, with the hulu, and the youtube, and the jello pudding, have decided to wrecck the two major industries the lst 3 generations have made into successful practices, Cable and Mainstream music


and thank god for that

[screech]

Originally Posted by Zeeboe Pss, screech. You're nose is brown, dude.

And which one of us is 14?

I was unaware that agreeing with someone was bad, especially when that person made sense out of the shit you've been spewing.

You're a Jay Leno fan and that's fine. I'm a Conan fan and that's fine.

Did NBC screw up here? Yes, I think they did. Was this mess entirely because of Jay? Was it entirely because Conan did not want to be pushed back? Was it entirely because NBC thinks this alone will help ratings? Anyone can believe any of those and be correct on some level. Fact is, Jay wanted to retire. NBC did not want that and did what they could (i.e. pretty much rescind the Tonight Show offer they gave Conan) to keep their guy. They tried to keep Conan, but it did not work out that way so here we are. You talk about people going in circles when you are jumping down people's throats for not being Leno fans and not agreeing with what you claim to be facts.

Get off your high horse and take some time to look down your nose to realize what's going on here.

[Zeeboe]

Just now read your other post.....and how do you know so much about contracts, screech? Did you read Leno's contract btw?

And screech, I'm not on any high horse here, buddy. I'm not looking my nose down at anyone either. I don't know who's posts you are reading. This is another example of you acting like a kid. You're either not reading my posts, or you're just really into cliche's and being cheesy, and your last post to me reeks of that.

Perhaps it's both. Because if you read my posts, you'd see I have said several times I am a Conan fan. I also have never said anything about people not being Leno fans. I have said I am defending Leno against verbal attacks he does not deserve in my view.

I read your posts, so how about reading some of mine if you're going to talk to me about this. And please, knock the whole super hero act thing you're trying to do, and the angle of me being mad because people are not Leno fans, and attacking for it is unwarranted, unrealistic, and just corny. Just stick to the topic, and don't try to make stuff up as you go along. Like the whole contract thing for example. You don't know anything about what was in Leno's contract.

How old are you by the way?

[What Would Kevin Do?]

Contracts are made to be broken.

[screech]

Where did I say I read Jay's contract? What else are you imagining me saying as your read my posts?

Are you really trying to "get under my skin" here? You appear to be above everyone else with this, claiming to know so much about the situation (because you've read Leno's bio and followed his career).

Two cliches and a post reeks of being into that? I learned something today. And to set things straight, since you clearly are omitting parts of my posts, here's the deal: The only bad words I've had for Leno are that I don't think he is funny and that I suspect he had a hand in this (since he has said himself he always wanted to keep the 11:35 slot).

What you consider facts and what really are facts seem to be different here, but you're too busy attacking me to realize that. You seem to enjoy it, though, so keep at it.

Get off the angle that you're mad at non-Leno fans? I could try, but you're making it tough. I know you're a Conan fan, as you've said it multiple times. However your lashing out at those who are supporting him make that hard to believe.

I didn't know being logical was childish. I'll have to stop that I guess.

It really doesn't take much for you to get riled up, does it?

[screech]

Just because you claim to know about Jay's life and business decisions doesn't mean you actually do. But if that's what you want to believe so be it. Keep at the "you're all kids who don't know anything" gimmick, too. It's quite entertaining.

[Heros Welcome]

This budding feud is quite entertaining. A bit ridiculous, but entertaining to say the least. I don't have anything of value to really say as it pertains to this argument the past 2 pages, but overall FUCK LENO and his chin, all hail COCO!

[Nark Order]

Originally Posted by screech Just because you claim to know about Jay's life and business decisions doesn't mean you actually do. But if that's what you want to believe so be it. Keep at the "you're all kids who don't know anything" gimmick, too. It's quite entertaining.

I don't think it's very entertaining.

[screech]

I am having a good time.

[Heros Welcome]

Yeah your right..its not. Unless that was a cue that you wanna spurn off this arguing and turn that comment into a war or words over the Internets?!?!!?!?!?!

[Nark Order]

God damnit, HW. You had to mention something being entertaining.

[Heros Welcome]

I'm sorry!

[screech]

Got him good.

[Nark Order]

I forgive you.