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Old 09-19-2017, 01:54 PM   #1
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Jinder Mahal has actually hurt business in India

Dave Meltzer reported recently that WWE has lost Network subscriptions in India since making Mahal champion. The initial reason for making him champ was to bolster business in India as a potential market. Meltzer noted that India has never been a strong market for WWE, even despite the immense popularity of Great Khali and Randy Orton with Indian fans.

Thoughts?
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Old 09-19-2017, 02:00 PM   #2
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Well, knowing a couple people who seem to know at least a little bit about Indian culture, Jinder Mahal's act is more insulting than representative, something about the term Maharaja itself not even being an Indian thing, and some other things that just don't quite add up accurately. Sorry to be so vague there, but I was only half listening when my friend was explaining it to me. Probably has something to do with it. Maybe Guru Dave can clear this up.
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Old 09-19-2017, 02:00 PM   #3
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Along with what ABT was saying maybe they should have made him a face.
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Old 09-19-2017, 02:06 PM   #4
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I don't think Meltzer said that. Just searched the observer newsletter and there's nothing about it

Just the thing someone posted on Reddit linking to a "Forbes" article saying that Meltzer said that in the newsletter...

Those Forbes "contributor" articles are not really by "Forbes" also... they are basically "fan posts" that p much anyone can write... so tons of garbage gets posted and attributed to "Forbes"
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Old 09-19-2017, 02:09 PM   #5
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Sounds like vice lol
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Old 09-19-2017, 02:12 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple A View Post
I don't think Meltzer said that anywhere. Just searched the observer newsletter and there's nothing about it

Just the thing someone posted on Reddit linking to a "Forbes" article saying that Meltzer said that...

Those Forbes articles are not really by "Forbes" also... they are basically "fan posts" that p much anyone can write... so tons of garbage gets posted and attributed to "Forbes"
Looks like we've been had again by Kenton "Clickbait" Lane!
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Old 09-19-2017, 02:14 PM   #7
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I would like to see some real data since it's been long enough of a title reign that there should be evidence of how it has affected business (especially in India). Been genuinely curious about it for a while. Is it really that easy to break into the India market by having an Indian champ in a world of booked accomplishments? It's not like this is China/NBA/Yao Ming.
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Old 09-19-2017, 02:48 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple A View Post
I don't think Meltzer said that. Just searched the observer newsletter and there's nothing about it

Just the thing someone posted on Reddit linking to a "Forbes" article saying that Meltzer said that in the newsletter...

Those Forbes "contributor" articles are not really by "Forbes" also... they are basically "fan posts" that p much anyone can write... so tons of garbage gets posted and attributed to "Forbes"
He could have talked about it on Wrestling Observer Radio b/c it seems like they do that every day and I never listen to it.
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Old 09-19-2017, 02:50 PM   #9
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Meltzer penguins,,,,,,
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Old 09-19-2017, 02:56 PM   #10
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Meltzer marsupials,,,,,,,
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Old 09-19-2017, 02:59 PM   #11
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1. Source or it didnt happen
2. India was one of the only markets bret hart had good draws in
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Old 09-19-2017, 03:04 PM   #12
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Is Randy Orton really a big draw in India? Seems weird, but pretty cool.
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Old 09-19-2017, 03:05 PM   #13
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Not sure why that jumped out at me tbh
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Old 09-19-2017, 03:21 PM   #14
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actually found something from an Observer Newsletter in August... confusingly worded but I guess this is what the "Forbes" post is referring to

Quote:
The New York Times in the arts section ran a lengthy profile on Mahal, with the story about him going from enhancement talent to champion and WWE using him to try and break into the Indian market. Michelle Wilson is quoted in the story about how 60 million people in India watch WWE programming every week. That’s one of those stats like the one about 20 million watching WWE programming in the U.S. At a recent investors call, the claim was that 13 million in India watch Raw, which is will about four times that of the U.S. and that at least sounds more reasonable. The goal is turning them into paying customers and given the drop in WWE Network numbers since Mahal won the title, which I don’t correlate to his winning, but that shows that it hasn’t made much of a difference as of at least the end of June in India, and if there was a sign that’s changed, I’d think we’d be hearing about it.
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Old 09-19-2017, 03:30 PM   #15
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They found out he was Canadian.

Also Randy Orton what? WHY?


Thats just weird
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Old 09-19-2017, 03:50 PM   #16
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Bring Khali back and make him champion again, I've never seen so much amazing coordination and ring skills since El Gigante.
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Old 09-19-2017, 04:20 PM   #17
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I never followed TNA, but anytime I saw a Sonjay Dutt match, I was always really impressed. The whole waking up to the India market and really focusing on smaller guys came about 5 years too late for him.
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Old 09-19-2017, 05:06 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anybody Thrilla View Post
Well, knowing a couple people who seem to know at least a little bit about Indian culture, Jinder Mahal's act is more insulting than representative, something about the term Maharaja itself not even being an Indian thing, and some other things that just don't quite add up accurately. Sorry to be so vague there, but I was only half listening when my friend was explaining it to me. Probably has something to do with it. Maybe Guru Dave can clear this up.
That's the impression I have gotten from Indian friends and family too. I mean, most of them don't follow wrestling or give a flying fuck, but what I understand about Indian culture (very little) is that it's not this holistic thing you can just pander to. Of the 1.3 billion people there, they have like 10 celebrities. I'm exaggerating. But this idea that they just need an Indian person to be pushed seems quite intuitively untrue. At least to me. I'd also like to hear what Guru Dave says, beyond that Mahal's Punjabi is terrible.

I'd also like to see proper numbers, but I'm not going to be surprised, and I've always predicted that this venture into India, at least in the way that they expect Jinder Mahal to be a star there, was always going to fail. It just felt really racist and simplistic to me. Otherwise wouldn't every Kal Penn movie instantly be the biggest success coming out of Hollywood? It's a bit more complex than that, you know?
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Old 09-19-2017, 05:10 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KIRA View Post
They found out he was Canadian.

Also Randy Orton what? WHY?


Thats just weird
I don't think being born in Canada would hurt Mahal's chances of getting over with an Indian market. There are people who identify as Indian who have never been to India at all. It's a bit of a diaspora effect. There's strong pockets of Indian people who move the Bollywood market in the US, UK, Canada and even Australia because of this. That's why if you're measuring Mahal's cultural success, I think you would be seeing it domestically too. He would be over in the US and drawing Indian people to the god-damn tapings. But he's not.
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Old 09-19-2017, 05:11 PM   #20
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Ugh, I hate saying "Indian market," because I really don't think that is a thing.
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Old 09-19-2017, 05:13 PM   #21
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I've always said that I think that The Bollywood Boyz will get far more over than Jinder Mahal will. Look at how those motherfuckers bump. Hated them when they first showed up and did that obnoxious "We're so happy to be here" shtick, but you've got to love them as human pinballs. Don't necessarily think that either will "draw," but I can see them getting very over and being the hotter act.
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Old 09-19-2017, 05:28 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noid View Post
That's the impression I have gotten from Indian friends and family too. I mean, most of them don't follow wrestling or give a flying fuck, but what I understand about Indian culture (very little) is that it's not this holistic thing you can just pander to. Of the 1.3 billion people there, they have like 10 celebrities. I'm exaggerating. But this idea that they just need an Indian person to be pushed seems quite intuitively untrue. At least to me. I'd also like to hear what Guru Dave says, beyond that Mahal's Punjabi is terrible.

I'd also like to see proper numbers, but I'm not going to be surprised, and I've always predicted that this venture into India, at least in the way that they expect Jinder Mahal to be a star there, was always going to fail. It just felt really racist and simplistic to me. Otherwise wouldn't every Kal Penn movie instantly be the biggest success coming out of Hollywood? It's a bit more complex than that, you know?
It never helps that every non American ends up playing a heel that hates Americans. If I were an indian fan Im sure Id be bored to tears seeing that play out yet again, regardless if Jinder is Indian or not. Speaking of Foreign Heels, hes not remotely the best or anywhere close.
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Old 09-19-2017, 05:33 PM   #23
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He is a body guy. Vince likes body guys. Vince will manipulate drawing stats in whatever way he can to push a body guy.

I dont fault Jinder tho. He has worked very hard. Tbh he is as effective as anyone else.
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Old 09-19-2017, 05:33 PM   #24
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Which is decidedly ineffective lol
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Old 09-19-2017, 05:34 PM   #25
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I honestly do believe that Jinder's limitations have a lot to do with how much he can potentially draw. By all accounts he seems like a swell guy, but he is a really, really bad professional wrestler. If he's not bad at something, he's hypnotically mediocre at it. It would almost be better if he were bad at more things, because then he would at least jar people awake.

The WWE seems to do a lot of stuff to pop the boys these days. And a lot of their choices for a big push are guys who are allegedly well-liked backstage and light up a locker-room, have the right attitude, etc. Well, I used to think that must have been the case with Baron Corbin. But this is a performance-based industry -- you need to be able to turn that on in front of a crowd and draw money. In his 15-year career and 7-year stint on WWE TV, Jinder Mahal has never proven he can do that.
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Old 09-19-2017, 05:36 PM   #26
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Seth Rollins and Dean Ambrose are "better" than Mahal uet i feel the need to watch them just as little as i watch Mahal.
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Old 09-19-2017, 05:37 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dastardly Dale Newstead View Post
He is a body guy. Vince likes body guys. Vince will manipulate drawing stats in whatever way he can to push a body guy.

I dont fault Jinder tho. He has worked very hard. Tbh he is as effective as anyone else.
Lol, I don't want to make a point about semantics, because that is just dumb, and we agree on the general point that he hasn't been effective: I just want to say that I'm sure there are body guys that Vince could like that would do a better job, as overall ineffective as it would be. We're both in the same ballpark with Jinder, but I just think we're on different shades of ineffective.

Ultimately agree with you. Don't know why I'm even saying anything, haha.
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Old 09-19-2017, 05:40 PM   #28
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Maybe Vince was inspired by the drastic change in Mahal? He is the most shredded big man they have and he used to be doughy. Could just be how dramatic it is that is tickling vinces balls
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Old 09-19-2017, 05:44 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dastardly Dale Newstead View Post
Seth Rollins and Dean Ambrose are "better" than Mahal uet i feel the need to watch them just as little as i watch Mahal.
Um, agree with you on Ambrose, haha. I'd take Rollins as champion every day of the week over Mahal though. Don't feel the need to watch him, which is a big problem with wrestling, but I would look forward to seeing him feud with AJ Styles, or even try to prove himself as a babyface against Brock Lesnar. Can you imagine Brock Lesnar vs. Jinder Mahal? And not just because they're both "heels" (is Brock even a heel these days?). There's just...less than what there usually is with Mahal.

I've said it time and time again: The perfect slot for Mahal is being re-aligned with 3MB and being inserted into a rivalry with The New Day. At this point in time, The New Day are important by WWE standards, and they would be believable enough selling for 3MB to make them look serious enough without ruining their tone. Not everybody is supposed to be a super-serial main event threat.

Another role would be teaming with Rusev again. They've got no plans for Rusev, but he's a pretty great performer, and there's that history there. Now that Mahal has been shoe-horned into a championship reign, it averages out with his previous jobber status and kind of puts him on par with Rusev. They could be a nice heel team for SmackDown.

I just don't think the place for Mahal is in the WWE Title picture. Guys like Rollins may not have had the star quality needed to carry the company, but a guy like Mahal doesn't have the talent or the star quality. It is more egregious to me.
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Old 09-19-2017, 05:48 PM   #30
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The whole idea of using Jinder to draw in India is just mindboggling. Like Savior mentioned, it would make SOME sense if he were a face. But using the old school "foreigner who hates America" thing to actually draw people in FROM THE FOREIGN COUNTRY is... what? lol

Why would they think Indians are gonna be like "I can't wait to tune in to see that guy who looks and sounds kinda like me get his ass beat by a bunch of people who don't!"
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Old 09-19-2017, 05:48 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dastardly Dale Newstead View Post
Maybe Vince was inspired by the drastic change in Mahal? He is the most shredded big man they have and he used to be doughy. Could just be how dramatic it is that is tickling vinces balls
I absolutely think this is a large part of what happened. A nice little nod to Mahal to pop the boys and as an "attaboy" for getting himself into shape. And, honestly, it wouldn't surprise me if there is a little bit of passive aggressive acting out that goes into it too. Vince has got to be at least somewhat frustrated at how small seems to work better these days, so finding a shredded guy in today's era might be somewhat cathartic for him.

I've also got a theory that the writers often pitch ideas just to see how far they can get them. Like the SNL writing room, there is sort of this ownership of ideas where you want to see yours make air, no matter what it is. So you start pitching shit Vince is going to find funny or whatever. "Jinder Mahal: WWE Champion" may have started as a "Well, Vince likes Jinder, so I'll push this," without the sincere intent for it to work, and then it just passed every safeguard WWE has, because Jinder is well-liked, works hard, is liked by Triple H, has family liked by agents, etc.

There's no way of proving that, but it's the kind of zany explanation that helps me find solace in what is happening, haha.
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Old 09-19-2017, 05:54 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
The whole idea of using Jinder to draw in India is just mindboggling. Like Savior mentioned, it would make SOME sense if he were a face. But using the old school "foreigner who hates America" thing to actually draw people in FROM THE FOREIGN COUNTRY is... what? lol

Why would they think Indians are gonna be like "I can't wait to tune in to see that guy who looks and sounds kinda like me get his ass beat by a bunch of people who don't!"
I think they actually present him as a face in India. Which is weird, because he acts extremely dastardly in the ring. Like, one of the thing that Mahal tries really hard at is wrestling bell-to-bell like an actual heel. He does nothing that elicits actual heat, but he knows the words if not the music. I don't know how they explain it away in India though. Maybe some sort of "He's fighting back after years of oppression!"

Honestly, I really do believe that him being a jobber is the most mind-boggling thing. There is no kayfabe reason to believe this guy is anything more than lucky. Why would you believe in him as either a face or a heel? As a face, he's impotent, because you've been told he can't win a fight on his own. Spike Dudley probably had a better win-loss record. He's Brooklyn Brawler WWF Champion. As a heel, he's off-putting, because you know he can't win a fight on his own, so you plunk money down to see him lose and a deus ex machina helps him keep the belt he shouldn't have and the heroes look stupid falling for all the same tricks. So why put down money until he loses?

It's really bad storytelling, lol. Like, just from a narrative standpoint. The heroes need to look inept for him to remain champion. These stories never work.
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Old 09-19-2017, 05:56 PM   #33
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It probably would be better to push Mahal as a babyface if you really wanted him to draw in India, but the problem you run into then is that the only thing Mahal does remotely well is scowl. He's just not good enough to be a top babyface, and that is why the problem lies with Mahal's talent. It's sad for him, because he does work hard and seems nice, but how many hard working and nice people have gotten nowhere in the industry just because they aren't good enough?
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Old 09-19-2017, 06:09 PM   #34
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WWE's biggest mistake was rushing him too soon for a mega push. Its a mistake they keep doing a lot and even odder if the idea was to use Jinder as a way to pander to the Indian market since they usually prefer face stars more. Think even the Great Khali only started to get over with the Indian market once he turned face.

India is WWE's strongest market in terms of viewers and for Youtube video views but in terms of money, they basically generate chump change for the company.
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Old 09-19-2017, 06:20 PM   #35
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So we've decided we dont need a source on this...k.
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Old 09-19-2017, 06:39 PM   #36
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I was trying to look up numbers for the WWE Network in India and then I realized PPVs are on free TV in India. So I imagine the subs would be almost non-existent regardless. Which makes the whole idea of Jinder as champion more baffling.
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Old 09-19-2017, 06:50 PM   #37
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Quote:
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As a heel, he's off-putting, because you know he can't win a fight on his own, so you plunk money down to see him lose and a deus ex machina helps him keep the belt he shouldn't have and the heroes look stupid falling for all the same tricks.
Nakamura's coolness kinda started to go away when I saw that cookie-cutter face promo they had him do. It went away completely with that SummerSlam match. My God, was that awful.
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Old 09-19-2017, 07:15 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sliksuke nakamura View Post
Dave Meltzer reported recently that WWE has lost Network subscriptions in India since making Mahal champion. The initial reason for making him champ was to bolster business in India as a potential market. Meltzer noted that India has never been a strong market for WWE, even despite the immense popularity of Great Khali and Randy Orton with Indian fans.

Thoughts?
My thoughts:

Vince, the culturally ignorant and arrogant fucker that he is, deserves what he gets.
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Old 09-19-2017, 07:36 PM   #39
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Old 09-19-2017, 09:04 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
Nakamura's coolness kinda started to go away when I saw that cookie-cutter face promo they had him do. It went away completely with that SummerSlam match. My God, was that awful.
#HateradeBrigade
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