Chris Benoit found dead (From WWE.com)

[darkpower]

Regardless, I don't think his legacy should be thrown away...even if he is a murderer. This is more of a "this is what happens when you do steroids, this is what will happen" then a "Benoit is a murder, he was planning this from day one" sort of thing to me (part of the reason I'm waiting for the toxicity reports before passing any judgment).

[Disturbed316]

Aparently this was found hidden at the Benoit house:



















Too soon?

[RP]

Last Man Standing at the Benoits.

[Paranoid Rattlesnake]

Originally Posted by darkpower Regardless, I don't think his legacy should be thrown away...even if he is a murderer. This is more of a "this is what happens when you do steroids, this is what will happen" then a "Benoit is a murder, he was planning this from day one" sort of thing to me (part of the reason I'm waiting for the toxicity reports before passing any judgment).

He is a murderer, He has destroyed any legacy he had or would have had

[redoneja]

Bret Hart was a guest of Ross Abrams on Scorborough Country on MSNBC. He said he never saw Chris Benoit lose his temper or composure. He said when he first heard early reports, he hoped there was "a better explanation than this." He added: "I think it's going to be a long time before anyone gets over this in the wrestling business." Abrams asked about Benoit dating Nancy while she was still married to another wrestler. Bret said he didn't know such details. He said Chris never confided marital problems to him. "I always thought he was a good family man and a good husband," he said. Bret said most of his experiences with Nancy came at funerals. Abrams seized that and asked about the deaths of wrestlers of the years. An on-screen graphic said that since 1997, there have been 1,000 pro wrestlers 45 and younger and 65 of them have died - 25 by heart attacks, five of 25 from steroid use, 12 deaths from use of other drugs. The death rate are seven times higher than the general population. There is 12 times the chance of a wrestler dying from heart disease. Bret talked about steroids and pain kills. He said he understands a lot of that was remedied in recent years. "I don't want to see this pinned on steroids," he said. "I think that there is a deeper - it goes beyond that at this point." Abrams asked: "Is this going to bring wrestling down? Is this going to be a pock that wrestling won't be able to overcome." Bret said, "No, wrestling will always keep going." He said there's no reason for this to ruin that for everybody. He said everybody loved and respected Benoit, noting, "That's why this is so hard to accept. We all loved him. This is a great man; I can't think of any wrestlers who wouldn't have come to the aid of Chris Benoit and support him in whatever he was carrying around." He said wrestlers are reeling from the deaths of so many of his peers, it's hard to accept. He said depression is a big part of it and this will only magnify it. Abrams asked if people misread Benoit or was it steroids or another kind of drug that set him off. Bret said that should be left up to forensic experts. He said WWE had a strong drug testing policy in place since Eddie Guerrero died. He said they stamped out steroids. "There is no happy medium; it's no steroids, period," he said. He again said he hopes it's not related to steroids. But then he added that steroids may have been a factor and you need to look at the info as it comes in.

from NoDq.com

[St. Jimmy]

OMG BRET SCREWED BENOIT!!!!!!!














Too Late?

[darkpower]

Originally Posted by Paranoid Rattlesnake He is a murderer, He has destroyed any legacy he had or would have had

It may destroy the image and the reputation, but it never destroys the past. It can never erase the past, regardless of the crime.

Why is it so hard for people to understand? I know I'm in a very small minority here, and I already can tell my opinion is pretty unpopular, but I have to stand my ground here. Regardless of what anyone thinks right now, I want to see what the hell the OFFICIAL reports say before making any final judgment. We can go and accuse, we can all disagree, tell anyone else they are wrong and that they are retarded cunts for a position they take on this, but thing is, it's just something that I, as a human being who has always believed of innocent until proven guilty, cannot go and pass judgment on ANYONE before all of the evidence is process and fairly looked at and found out what went wrong here. It's not because I'm trying to defend a murderer or anything (but again, everyone has a right to a defense here), it's just something that I feel I should be doing, and if anyone sees me as being wrong, then so be it, but I'm going to wait and see. Chances are he ODed or the roids and went out of his mind.

Now, if he was stable, and aware of his actions, then the insanity plea wouldn't apply here, and I would be more than happy to send him to his execution. But more than likely, there is at the very least, an insanity plea being seen here. I don't know. Again, just something that I've always believe in doing, because you never know. Just bear with me on this, it's just the heart in me cannot possibly send someone, anyone, to their execution without seeing EVERYTHING there was to see.

[Jon Kano]

Just like to add my updated opinion. While I was holding out for some kind of alternate explantion as to what happened, its all now obvious.

I still respect, admire, love and will watch Chris Benoit the character (through DVDs etc obviously) and the dedication and loyalty he had for the wrestling industry was a paramount aspect of why I often looked up to him.

But for Benoit the person, the man he has shown to truely be, he should burn in hell.

[Felipewcw]

If the trend continues it doesn't look good for the man of 1,000 holds or the man who molested Pepe.

Which brings up a good question, since I don't watch wrestling anymore, is Perry Saturn even still alive?

Also, didn't Dean Malenko have throat cancer or something?

[Theo Dious]

Originally Posted by Felipewcw If the trend continues it doesn't look good for the man of 1,000 holds or the man who molested Pepe AND Moppy.

[Avenger]

Thinking about Chavo there now. He's gotta' be pretty fucked up right now. How do you recover from something like this after losing your two best friends in these circumstances?

[Avenger]

and Malenko to an extent.

[Jon Kano]

I read on wiki, so it could be false, at some point after leaving WWE, Saturn attempted to stop some guy raping a woman, got shot 2 in the neck and eventually returned to the indy circuit. Fuckin soldier he is.

[NoJabbaNoBogRoll]

For everyone saying he should rot in Hell, I hope for your sakes that they don't find a tumour or something else that this could be attributed to... Because you'll be feeling pretty terrible about your comments.

[Theo Dious]

Yeah, what the fake king said.

[BigDaddyCool]

Originally Posted by NoJabbaNoBogRoll For everyone saying he should rot in Hell, I hope for your sakes that they don't find a tumour or something else that this could be attributed to... Because you'll be feeling pretty terrible about your comments.

I prayed for god to have mercy on his soul.

[BigDaddyCool]

Benoit's got something to say.
He killed his baby today!
It doesn't matter much to him now that he's dead.[/Misfits]

[Kalyx triaD]

I don't wish anyone to Hell, the after-life is none of my business.

Heaven's just an unlikely end point for Benoit.

This effects me more than anything else has as a wrestling fan since I've always been a Benoit mark and he's always been my favorite wrestler. More than that, I've always looked up to him as a wrestler and have always thought of him as a good person. I am not going to make any comments on his death other than R.I.P to him, his wife, and his son because I do not know the exact circumstances of it despite what's been reported, I wasn't there. I will always respect him, miss him, and continue to watch him. R.I.P Chris Benoit.

[Kalyx triaD]

Chavo?

Yes, I would also like to wish for the best and send my regards to Chavo, Dean Malenko, and anyone else who was close to Benoit and his family.

[Kalyx triaD]

I was asking if you were Chavo...

Welcome to TPdub.

[Jon Kano]

Originally Posted by NoJabbaNoBogRoll For everyone saying he should rot in Hell, I hope for your sakes that they don't find a tumour or something else that this could be attributed to... Because you'll be feeling pretty terrible about your comments.

As a wrestler, whose health is paramount, I doubt he would've been wrestling, let alone able to if this was the case. Im pretty sure after all the knocks, bumps and whatnot they are scanned/checked monthly or even weekly for things like that.

[NoJabbaNoBogRoll]

I'd hope so.

A tumour was just an example, there's plenty of other physical problems that could've led to this, or at least contributed to it.

I'm only mentioning it because most people here seem to be simply ignoring the obvious mental issues involved, so I'm hoping something tangeable shows up to prove to everyone that he wasn't himself.

[BigDaddyCool]

Originally Posted by NoJabbaNoBogRoll I'd hope so. A tumour was just an example, there's plenty of other physical problems that could've led to this, or at least contributed to it. I'm only mentioning it because most people here seem to be simply ignoring the obvious mental issues involved, so I'm hoping something tangeable shows up to prove to everyone that he wasn't himself.

Yeah, that old gem. He wasn't really guilty, he was crazy. If being drunk is no excuse for commiting a crime, then neither is being crazy.

[Theo Dious]

Meh, you choose to get drunk. If going out of his mind wasn't his fault, then I can't hold him fully responsible. Unless he went crazy because of something he chose to do.

[NoJabbaNoBogRoll]

If you can't see the difference between drinking too much and having severe mental problems...

I hope you were joking.

[Felipewcw]

For those who say you can choose to be drunk but NOT choose to be crazy....



I rest my case.

On a more serious note, I don't think he was crazy, I think he snapped and then went crazy. He was fine until his wife called him and told him something that set him off. He flew home and lost it, killing her in the process. Once the reality set in of what he did he went off the deep end. Fear of his son growing up with what he did besides the fact of his handicap which had to play a factor into Benoits feelings towards his son, he contemplated it for a day and decided to end his son's life.

Not being able to live with what he had done along with going to jail and all the other ramifications (Friends/family/WWE/judicial system) that he would have to face, he took his own life, which after he killed his whole family took a day in itself to come to that conclusion.

I don't think he was crazy, I think he lost his temper in a fit of rage (Like it has been documented in the past with his abuse and furniture smashing)(BENOIT SMASH! ) and killed his wife, which was the point of no return. And return he didn't.

Note: I think it's eerily fitting that his signature taunt was the thumb across to throat as in he's going to cut off your head or it can now be taken as the media has thrown around so much lately, "asphyxiation".

[VonErichLives]

Originally Posted by DarthTedious Meh, you choose to get drunk. If going out of his mind wasn't his fault, then I can't hold him fully responsible. Unless he went crazy because of something he chose to do.

Originally Posted by NoJabbaNoBogRoll If you can't see the difference between drinking too much and having severe mental problems... I hope you were joking.

example: he chose to do roids and roids are found to be the reason for what happened.

then, it's his own fault.

you smoke crack, you become a retard drooling on yourself because you smoked the crack it's your own fault.

you get drunk, you drive, you kill someone it's your own fault.

you choose to do roids, you rage, you kill someone it's your own fault.

[Felipewcw]

On another note, probably the only reference to Benoit on anything WWE related (Besides the front page section where WWE basically, as someone put it best "Throws Benoit under a bus")

http://www.wwe.com/shows/raw/videos/
The tribute video that aired on RAW.

[Theo Dious]

Originally Posted by VonErichLives example: he chose to do roids and roids are found to be the reason for what happened. then, it's his own fault. you smoke crack, you become a retard drooling on yourself because you smoked the crack it's your own fault. you get drunk, you drive, you kill someone it's your own fault. you choose to do roids, you rage, you kill someone it's your own fault.

All very true. And if steroids or any other choice that he made turns out to be the reason for this, then yeah, fuck him.

[Destor]

I fail to see what this horrendous act has do to with his professional career. But whatever.

[Destor]

Also that roid bit is bs. There is a one day sepreation between all the killings. Roid rage doesn't work like that. Sounds more like Seppuku.

[Londoner]

^ Exactly what im thinking Destor, the fact that there's almost a whole day seperation shows he knew what he was doing, to an extent atleast. Its weird the more i hear about this the more its starting to sink in and the more uneasy i feel. I haven't really been that affected yet.

[RGWhat316]

I'm with darkpower. Regardless of what the media is saying, since they only like to trash pro wrestling and are trying in every way to make this look as bad as possible, I'm waiting for the whole story to come out before I say that he shoud rot in hell. Part of me doesn't even want to know what made this happen, but it's the only way to get closure.

[Theo Dious]

Seriously. No sane person WANTS to know the details. None of us WANTED to watch the press conference yesterday for entertainment. Nobody WANTED to know exactly how these things were done. But otherwise we simply wander around for eternity with an unresolved issue, and most people's minds don't like to leave things unresolved.

[Jeritron]

Originally Posted by TL ^ Exactly what im thinking Destor, the fact that there's almost a whole day seperation shows he knew what he was doing, to an extent atleast. Its weird the more i hear about this the more its starting to sink in and the more uneasy i feel. I haven't really been that affected yet.

The day long seperation between each murder is what makes the whole thing worse. I know some people don't want to believe it, but the fact is that no matter how you slice it Chris Benoit was a sick fuck. He did what he did and I just don't think theres a way around it.

Personally, I don't see how anyone can get past it. Technically, his career is still the same. But it's the same guy who flipped out and killed his family, it's a murderer. How often have you been entertained by a child murderer and watched them regularly? And how often have you continued to watch them?
To me, I think without a doubt the whole thing destroyed his career and legacy and everything about him.
I guess people can call their own shots. But to be honest I think anyone who says that Chris Benoit the man isn't Chris Benoit the wrestler bullshit is just in denial. I think it's really just a way of telling yourself some bullshit so you don't have to come to terms with it, and more pathetically, so you don't have to give up one of your wrestlers and some favorite matches.
Me, I have no problem doing it. I look at him, what he did to his family, what he did to his friends, what he did to his fans, his coworkers, his business and least of all his own legacy...I look at what he did and I see a monster and probably the biggest peice of shit that belongs in hell.

The thing that's weird about it, is not only is he a child murderer and wife killer, he's one that many of us have been in a presence of. One that all of us have watched. And one that most of thought we knew better, as wrestling fans falsey tend to do. Truth is we didn't. And now all I can say is true colors.
Usually when you hear about a filthy murderer, you hear about them because of what they did. Normally you don't know of them before it.

[Corkscrewed]

darkpower:
At this point, authorities have ruled it a double murder homicide. I recognize that it's very hard for you to accept that he did this, but unless there's video footage of him doing it, you're not going to get more proof than this. For a homicide investigation, this was absurdly fast. That means that when officers entered the home, it was so obvious what happened that they only had to check against other possible methods, rather than start from everything that might have happened and narrow that list down.

As painful as it is to accept, something in Benoit snapped, and he went into deliberate insanity. That is to say... he was aware of what he was doing, but his mental state of mind was obviously not normal. And all of this transpired over an extended period of time.

I liken the state of mind to the VaTech killer, who killed two people, went back to his dorm and mailed some shit, then went out and killed two dozen more people elsewhere before offing himself. This was deliberate on his part; no one will argue that. But obviously, the guy had some serious mental problems to drive him to that point.

I think Benoit had something similar that he kept to himself or to his family that drove him past the brink of deliberate insanity. Steroids MIGHT have contributed to that. Maybe they were what pushed him past the first act of murder, and after that, there was no turning back. OR maybe they had nothing to do with anything, and his mind had just already become so twisted that the murders would have happened regardless of drug use.

You know how in cults, members can be convinced of the craziest things? Consider this sort of a case of Benoit brainwashing himself, in a way. This wasn't "normal Benoit," but this wasn't a sudden fit of rage either. Not with confirmation that he killed Nancy on Friday, Daniel on Saturday or early Sunday morning, and himself later on Sunday.


In Regards to His Career:
People are right in saying that this deed, despite its despicable nature, cannot and should not ERASE his entire heralded career. But it taints it. A lot. People cannot help but look at it differently. No one looks at OJ and remembers his career more than his murder trial. Today, people see him as a sleezebag who got away with it. His actions as a human being tainted his legacy as a sportsman.

Lets face it: wrestlers are people too, and as much as you'd like to separate the two, human nature dictates that a person's character affects his performance legacy.

And even if you want to say "Benoit killing his family has no connection with his in-ring performances and his wrestling career..." Well, actually, I think it does. Think of the blow this deals to the WWE. Think of how he's crushed fans and colleagues who loved him, looked up to him, and viewed him. Think of the bad publicity he's dealt to the company. As an ambassador of the WWE, he represents the WWE, and more than most people because of his clout. But by doing what he did, he paints the WWE in a bad light, because people will see that a representative of a company brough violence out of the storyline and into real life.

So if you understand that argument, then you'll understand that in reality, Benoit's actions DO affect wrestling. They DO affect his legacy. His legacy is one of tremendous performance and excellence in the ring--only it ENDS with the most disgusting downfall anyone has ever seen.

Do you know the worst part of his killing himself? He leaves the WWE to pick up the pieces. Had he given himself up or stayed alive, he might be able to explain himself, or at least deflect the heat off the company by saying work didn't have anything to do with this (admittedly, he'd also have the chance to blame the company if he wanted to, but at least people could judge his manner and reaction and see if the blame was valid or not). But he killed himself. And at least in that way, the suicide was extremely selfish, because it ignored how his friends and his company would pick up after him.


Basically:
I can never look at Benoit the person the same way again. None of us can. But I can't look at him as a wrestler in the same way either, because like it or not, his actions as a person DID affect his legacy as a wrestler. They're not as divided, black and white, as some people want to believe. At least not the way I see it.

I believe Benoit killed his wife and family. Anyone who doesn't is in denial, similar to who some people believe Elvis or Tupac are alive, or that the World Trade Center was blown up by the feds and not terrorists. I am not denouncing those people for sticking with Benoit. I'm not calling you an idiot or saying you're stupid. You have every right to take your stance, because that's what fans do. But I am saying you're in denial, and I would urge you to accept what seems to be proven as soundly as possible under our legal and investigative system. As hard as that is to stomach.

[Jeritron]

Exactly. I've accepted the facts. He isn't and never will be anything to me other than a massive scumbag.

He claimed to be a family man, he claimed to love the business, he claimed to love his best friends, he claimed to be a man's man, and he claimed to be a fan and lockerroom favorite.
He let everyone down, to say the very least.
I look at him and just have hate. To be honest, I don't know how guys like Vince, Flair, Foley, Malenko, Jericho, Rey, HHH and all of the rest of them can't look at him and feel the same.
I'm very interested to hear comments regarding him. As far as I'm concerned, he's nothing but a child murderer.

[Corkscrewed]

Usually when you hear about a filthy murderer, you hear about them because of what they did. Normally you don't know of them before it.

That's a great point. I forgot to point this out in my above Alienoidasm (Alienoidasm - (noun) A long, apparently rambling post that actually makes good points and is well thought out, but may be hard to read because it's so damn long...). We've seen cases like this before in the news... dad kills wife and kids. Or dad kills kids. Or mom kills children.

We're quick to denounce these murderers. Heck, at another message board I frequent, many posters are denouncing Benoit. They don't know him. It's not a wrestling forum. They're seeing this from the common person's perspective. In Benoit's case, it's because we've loved and respected him in the ring. But how are we to know that he was fine outside of it? He was a very private person anyway. Even his friends might not have known, or been able to know.

The only difference here is that we knew and respected Benoit as a wrestler and "as a person" (or at least we thought we knew him as a person) before we knew him as a murderer. That's what makes this pill so tough to swallow.