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Old 04-19-2014, 12:53 PM   #41
Shadrick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAMN iNATOR View Post
You’re wrong. The fans LOVED RyBack, and rightly so...it wasn’t just that they loved chanting “FEED ME MORE!” along with him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
If it was all about the heel he was going to beat up, wouldn't other guys be getting the same or better pops when they were pitted against the same guys? The guy was getting huge pops confronting CM Punk when Punk was getting face reactions against the rest of the roster. The character worked. The crowd was behind him.
I mean, I hear you guys. But if Ryback was going up against Del Rio (which he did at one point) people weren't giving as much of a shit in terms of their reaction to him coming out. That could be attributed to the situations not being as "major" feeling, but thats a different convo, altogether. Who else did Punk go up against during his peak as a heel, other than Cena, who was new and built up to be that kind of threat? I don't recall anyone. If I could, we could make that comparison.

Inator, I'm not disagreeing that the fans didn't enjoy Ryback. I'm saying his phrase was more over than he was ultimately. The reactions to him coming out were stronger because of the strong heel he was going against.

And fan, I'm not disagreeing that the crowd wasn't behind him to an extent. I just wouldn't refer to his CHARACTER as massively over as much as his catchphrase was. I think the crowd supported him as much as they did because he was new, and up until that point built to be a force. I don't recall "Feed Me More" being chanted at PPV's during other main event guys matches. That's "massively" over, and imo, ONLY that would be a testament to the catchphrase as much as the character.
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Old 04-19-2014, 01:16 PM   #42
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I know, but that seems completely illogical to me. It seems to me that both him and his phrase were equally over, no lie. I guess it’s just something we’ll have to agree to disagree about since I don’t prefer a long, drawn-out argument/fight.
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Old 04-19-2014, 01:49 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadrick View Post
I mean, I hear you guys. But if Ryback was going up against Del Rio (which he did at one point) people weren't giving as much of a shit in terms of their reaction to him coming out. That could be attributed to the situations not being as "major" feeling, but thats a different convo, altogether. Who else did Punk go up against during his peak as a heel, other than Cena, who was new and built up to be that kind of threat? I don't recall anyone. If I could, we could make that comparison.

Inator, I'm not disagreeing that the fans didn't enjoy Ryback. I'm saying his phrase was more over than he was ultimately. The reactions to him coming out were stronger because of the strong heel he was going against.

And fan, I'm not disagreeing that the crowd wasn't behind him to an extent. I just wouldn't refer to his CHARACTER as massively over as much as his catchphrase was. I think the crowd supported him as much as they did because he was new, and up until that point built to be a force. I don't recall "Feed Me More" being chanted at PPV's during other main event guys matches. That's "massively" over, and imo, ONLY that would be a testament to the catchphrase as much as the character.
He was getting over feuding with friggen Jinder Mahal.

If Ryback were 205 pounds the way he got over wouldn't be questioned.
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Old 04-19-2014, 04:03 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad News Gertner View Post
He was getting over feuding with friggen Jinder Mahal.

If Ryback were 205 pounds the way he got over wouldn't be questioned.
lol now 300 pound monsters are the victims of an industry that doesn't give big men a chance? The dude had a shot to get over, it worked for a short period of time and then he floundered. It's the same thing that happened to Zack Ryder, but I don't see you defending him by saying "he's only not over because of the booking". Everyone blames Ryder for his own fall, same should be true for Ryback.
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Old 04-19-2014, 04:05 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
They need to push the BFFs gimmick more.

And they need to start wearing matching singlets. This one:
I could get behind this idea actually. It'd be pretty hilarious to see those two buffoons jumping rope or playing jacks in backstage segments and just generally getting into mischief.
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Old 04-19-2014, 04:06 PM   #46
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they dropped the ball with ryback because he was really over for a time, but he kind of sucks so i'm not bothered by it.
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Old 04-19-2014, 04:12 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wishbone View Post
I could get behind this idea actually. It'd be pretty hilarious to see those two buffoons jumping rope or playing jacks in backstage segments and just generally getting into mischief.
Jumping ropes and playing jacks...yep, that would be pretty neat...if this were the 1970s.
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Old 04-19-2014, 04:13 PM   #48
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Oh wait, I know! Let's have a whole episode of RAW dedicated to the 2 of them solving a Rubik’s Cube!
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Old 04-19-2014, 04:14 PM   #49
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The unstoppable monster gimmick is going to get over for a period of time, and Ryback took advantage of the Cena injury situation. The problem is that you can only be an unstoppable monster for so long until its stale. He has yet to show he can truly get over without just squashing everyone.
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Old 04-19-2014, 04:49 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAMN iNATOR View Post
Jumping ropes and playing jacks...yep, that would be pretty neat...if this were the 1970s.
Would you rather they play PS4, chug mountain dew and shout YOLO and Hashtag all the time? We're talking about a business built on parodies. Them just acting like well adjusted, adult male best friends wouldn't be funny nor interesting. Having them act like moronic man children would be hilarious.
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Old 04-19-2014, 05:17 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wishbone View Post
lol now 300 pound monsters are the victims of an industry that doesn't give big men a chance? The dude had a shot to get over, it worked for a short period of time and then he floundered. It's the same thing that happened to Zack Ryder, but I don't see you defending him by saying "he's only not over because of the booking". Everyone blames Ryder for his own fall, same should be true for Ryback.
I'm referring to the 900 pound blobs behind a computer screen who masterbate to pictures of Davey Richards.
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Old 04-19-2014, 06:09 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad News Gertner View Post
I'm referring to the 900 pound blobs behind a computer screen who masterbate to pictures of Davey Richards.
Those "900 pound blobs" as you put them don't decide who gets a push or who gets over. It's not their fault your beloved Ryback has become a joke. In fact you sound just like those "900 pound blobs" right now. You're complaining because your favorites aren't getting pushes despite the fact that they don't deserve them.
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Old 04-19-2014, 06:49 PM   #53
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How does he not deserve a push? He was rushed into a feud and then put intoo no win positions? Thaanfully RybAxel will be tag champs in a month.
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Old 04-19-2014, 09:49 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad News Gertner View Post
How does he not deserve a push? He was rushed into a feud and then put intoo no win positions? Thaanfully RybAxel will be tag champs in a month.
He doesn't deserve a push because he already got one. It didn't work because fans aren't the same easily impressed masses they were in the 80's and 90's. It takes more than huge muscles to get you over now. Ryback is mediocre on the mic and below average in the ring. In the Hogan era his physic alone would have made him a main eventer, but today that doesn't fly. Why do you think guys like Punk and Bryan are among the most popular? It's because the wrestling world has changed. Even the average fan is somewhat of a "smark" now.
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Old 04-19-2014, 10:54 PM   #55
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Please cite one time where Ryback came out before his heel turn and after he was put in the main event scene when the crowd did not go nuts.
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Old 04-19-2014, 11:29 PM   #56
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Quote:
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Ryback was MASSIVELY over for a 9 month stretch. You can't compare what Axel had going on, due to Heyman anyways, to Ryback's push and demise.
I think you missed my point entirely. I wasn't comparing how over Henning* was in relation to Ryback (and again, while Ryback may have been "massively" over, he wasn't "BE THE MAN IN WWE" over, which I already said). I was stating that both guys were set up to fail from both shitty booking and the WWE big man standard, and when it failed, they both were pointed to for "not being able to connect with fans/not having *it*", and that in comparison with the topic at hand (which is Rusev) being headed in the same direction.

He's going to need feuds and some sort of character depth. I've been out of touch with NXT for quite awhile, and I'm already more excited for Adam Rose sight unseen than I am behind Rusev from what I've seen in the ring. Everyone loves throwing around "vanilla midget" because it's fun to suck off Kevin Nash, but we need to understand that big guys can be pretty damn vanilla too, and a lot of them that have graced Vince's rings have been.

And Alexander Rusev is positioned to be one of those as well. And once again, when his gimmick fails, it will somehow be *his* fault because the fans don't care about his look as much as the company thinks the fans do.
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Old 04-20-2014, 12:03 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Steele View Post
The unstoppable monster gimmick is going to get over for a period of time, and Ryback took advantage of the Cena injury situation. The problem is that you can only be an unstoppable monster for so long until its stale. He has yet to show he can truly get over without just squashing everyone.
Guys who look like a fucking machine aren't gonna get over on the sympathy of constantly losing and looking like a pussy. He was over because he was a threat to give any asshole heel their comeuppance and the crowd could get behind him to do so. Having him start to get monster pops and immediately taking advantage of that situation by jobbing him out for a year straight on PPV was retarded even by WWE booking standards.
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Old 04-20-2014, 12:08 AM   #58
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He doesn't deserve a push because he already got one.
You sure you don't wanna take that back? You realize all the guys you've just said don't deserve a push with that one sentence?
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Old 04-20-2014, 12:20 AM   #59
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Ryback was booked horribly from about WrestleMania onwards. Fucking horribly.
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Old 04-20-2014, 12:21 AM   #60
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Quote:
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It didn't work because fans aren't the same easily impressed masses they were in the 80's and 90's. It takes more than huge muscles to get you over now.
They seemed pretty impressed when they were... ya know... GOING FUCKING CRAZY FOR HIM.

It didn't work because he got over and they immediately butchered the way he was being booked. Seriously, even a lot of the Ryback haters here have acknowledged that. It's unbelievable that people still try to reason that a guy who was getting huge reactions and then once he started getting those reactions didn't win a major match for a year failed for any reason other than booking. He got over on being a badass the crowd could get behind to take care of the heel and then they made him into a loser. Ridiculous.
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Old 04-20-2014, 12:21 AM   #61
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I get what they were going for, but it was the wrong thing to do with him. Depth and nuance were not draws to the Ryback character at the time, and it just didn't come off right. Now that they're building him from the ground up again, he could actually become a really interesting character with a chip on his shoulder.
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Old 04-20-2014, 12:21 AM   #62
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Ryback and Curtis Axel should go to the mall together and make little girls cry for fun.
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Old 04-20-2014, 12:22 AM   #63
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the joy i experienced watching ryback get needlessly jobbed out was equivalent to the joy #1-wwf-fan would have experienced watching daniel bryan get completely buried at WM.
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Old 04-20-2014, 12:23 AM   #64
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And then get ice-creams and laugh together.
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Old 04-20-2014, 12:23 AM   #65
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Then Ryback should get Curtis Axel to hold his laptop while he Tweets something.
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Old 04-20-2014, 12:23 AM   #66
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Quote:
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Ryback was booked horribly from about WrestleMania onwards. Fucking horribly.
I still enjoyed him through the Cena feud, even if the actual heel turn was "a bit daft".
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Old 04-20-2014, 12:24 AM   #67
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They need matching attire, too, because that's what The Best Buddies do.
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Old 04-20-2014, 12:26 AM   #68
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Quote:
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the joy i experienced watching ryback get needlessly jobbed out was equivalent to the joy #1-wwf-fan would have experienced watching daniel bryan get completely buried at WM.
I can't imagine it was that high.
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Old 04-20-2014, 12:27 AM   #69
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As for Rusev, I've decided that the way I want to see them go is to have Rusev vs. Ziggler at Extreme Rules. Lana uses his business connections to get the match made and get Rusev an opportunity to beat the only man who has ever beat him in singles competition. But instead of going the predictable route and having Rusev beat Ziggler with The Accolade, have Ziggler sneak out a victory over Rusev.

Rusev is going to need to be able to survive without a winning streak, and losing to a former two-time World Heavyweight Champion that people absolutely love is no dishonor and actually gives him something to do, instead of just moving on and squashing the next guy until they find a guy to put him against that they don't want him to squash.

The loss pisses off Rusev and Lana, who make it their personal mission to destroy Ziggler. They attack him during a match on the RAW after Extreme Rules and Rusev gives the fans a reason to actually dislike him, other than him being serious business who doesn't speak English. The two then have an actual feud.
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Old 04-20-2014, 12:30 AM   #70
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I can't imagine it was that high.
i know what i said.
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Old 04-20-2014, 08:04 AM   #71
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Quote:
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He doesn't deserve a push because he already got one. It didn't work because fans aren't the same easily impressed masses they were in the 80's and 90's. It takes more than huge muscles to get you over now. Ryback is mediocre on the mic and below average in the ring. In the Hogan era his physic alone would have made him a main eventer, but today that doesn't fly. Why do you think guys like Punk and Bryan are among the most popular? It's because the wrestling world has changed. Even the average fan is somewhat of a "smark" now.
A great big man will always get over more than a guy like Punk and Bryan. ALWAYS. Wrestlers are real life superheros, not your average ordinary guy. Nobody gives two fucks about workrate and that's what bothered the internet about Ryback: that a 300 pound muscle guy still gets crazy over with mediocre ring skills.
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Old 04-20-2014, 09:30 AM   #72
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Ryback's ring skills aren't that bad, which is one of the reasons I like him. He was breaking out some innovative moves every week when he debuted and was having those 2-on-1 squash matches.
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Old 04-20-2014, 09:37 AM   #73
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Quote:
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A great big man will always get over more than a guy like Punk and Bryan. ALWAYS. Wrestlers are real life superheros, not your average ordinary guy. Nobody gives two fucks about workrate...
... which is why nobody EVER chants "boring", or worse, gives no reaction, because its all about how how the guy looks and nothing whatsoever to do with being entertaining in the ring.

I get your contention that Indy McKickpads becoming an internet sensation doing 80 flips and planchas per 60 minute Iron Man matches shouldn't be signed by Vince and become world champion a month later, which is how the early adopters of "the next hot new thing" tend to see him, but there are more "real life superheroes" than goddamn Superman... and Spider-Man should never be as popular as he is because he's just some skinny kid. You have to see how stupid it sounds that you're basically saying Daniel Bryan shouldn't be as over as he is unless he grows at least 4 to 6 inches, or that someone who matches what he is step for step is automatically a bigger draw if they're taller.

You hate Punk and Bryan because of what they supposedly represent. Noted. However, that same hatred sould be applied to Cesaro as well. He was an indy darling, he works hard, is entertaining, has a damn good workrate... oh, wait, he happened to have genetics that let him grow a few more inches, so he gets a pass. And he should be outdrawing and out merchandising the World Heavyweight Champion right now because he is an excellent big man, right?

Just being big and/or muscular isn't enough. Especially anymore. Punk and Bryan got to their heights in spite of it. Really, so did Shawn Michaels. And Ric Flair. And Chris Jericho. And Edge... and why we don't wax poetic about Nathan Jones, or Matt Morgan, or John Heidenreich. People around here bitch about Sheamus all the time, and he absolutely passes the "walk down the street/know he's a superstar" test. He can put on good matches and is pretty entertaining in and out of the ring. His height and build doesn't make him more over than Punk, who, if he walked out to the ring tomorrow on RAW would blow the roof off before he even sterted his promo.

But again, none of these people have anything to do with how utterly generic, bland, and nondescript Rusev is right now. In a wold full of big men, it takes something more than being yet another big man to stand out. As much as he's being labeled Kozlov 2.0, he is just as much Tensai, without the unacknowledged past. Neither of these comparisons are good.
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Old 04-20-2014, 10:12 AM   #74
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Rusev is boring. You can't bore people in the world of the smartphone.
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Old 04-20-2014, 11:13 AM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Guycott View Post
... which is why nobody EVER chants "boring", or worse, gives no reaction, because its all about how how the guy looks and nothing whatsoever to do with being entertaining in the ring.

I get your contention that Indy McKickpads becoming an internet sensation doing 80 flips and planchas per 60 minute Iron Man matches shouldn't be signed by Vince and become world champion a month later, which is how the early adopters of "the next hot new thing" tend to see him, but there are more "real life superheroes" than goddamn Superman... and Spider-Man should never be as popular as he is because he's just some skinny kid. You have to see how stupid it sounds that you're basically saying Daniel Bryan shouldn't be as over as he is unless he grows at least 4 to 6 inches, or that someone who matches what he is step for step is automatically a bigger draw if they're taller.

You hate Punk and Bryan because of what they supposedly represent. Noted. However, that same hatred sould be applied to Cesaro as well. He was an indy darling, he works hard, is entertaining, has a damn good workrate... oh, wait, he happened to have genetics that let him grow a few more inches, so he gets a pass. And he should be outdrawing and out merchandising the World Heavyweight Champion right now because he is an excellent big man, right?

Just being big and/or muscular isn't enough. Especially anymore. Punk and Bryan got to their heights in spite of it. Really, so did Shawn Michaels. And Ric Flair. And Chris Jericho. And Edge... and why we don't wax poetic about Nathan Jones, or Matt Morgan, or John Heidenreich. People around here bitch about Sheamus all the time, and he absolutely passes the "walk down the street/know he's a superstar" test. He can put on good matches and is pretty entertaining in and out of the ring. His height and build doesn't make him more over than Punk, who, if he walked out to the ring tomorrow on RAW would blow the roof off before he even sterted his promo.

But again, none of these people have anything to do with how utterly generic, bland, and nondescript Rusev is right now. In a wold full of big men, it takes something more than being yet another big man to stand out. As much as he's being labeled Kozlov 2.0, he is just as much Tensai, without the unacknowledged past. Neither of these comparisons are good.
The people who chant "boring" aren't the core fanbase. A big man with mic skills will always be better than a skinny dweeb with the same and you can take a monster and make them into something regardless of mic or ring skills.

No wonder why ratings are shit. Vanilla midgets populating the roster, there's no mystique to it anymore. Nash was right. Send these guys back to the mid card.
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Old 04-20-2014, 11:26 AM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad News Gertner View Post
A great big man will always get over more than a guy like Punk and Bryan. ALWAYS. Wrestlers are real life superheros, not your average ordinary guy. Nobody gives two fucks about workrate and that's what bothered the internet about Ryback: that a 300 pound muscle guy still gets crazy over with mediocre ring skills.
This pretty much sums up the point I've been trying to make since this recent "average guy push" in the WWE. Hell, I tried to make it 10 years ago when people actually thought putting the title on Benoit at a milestone WrestleMania was a great idea. The homeless looking, barely 200 lb "regular guy" workrate heroes have a place in wrestling. They're useful. They should be nothing more than supporting characters though. Wrestling is at it's best when it features larger than life characters. Without that, it's basically a fake UFC. A bunch of regular looking guys fighting except it's scripted.

The last thing WWE should be trying to do is be more like ROH.
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Old 04-20-2014, 11:35 AM   #77
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so ryback is massively over with the crowd and should get a legit push because he is huge, but daniel bryan is massively over with the crowd and shouldn't get a push because he isn't huge? what does it matter if they are massively over? while i concede that i don't like ryback at all, they should have continued to push him as a monster because it was working. the crowd was eating it up. shouldn't the same concept apply to any wrestler regardless of physical stature? there is a place for wrestlers big and small if the booking handles it properly. that is the major issue here.
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Old 04-20-2014, 11:52 AM   #78
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and, on the thread's topic, the same applies to rusev. he could be over. he has the look and the wrestling ability and a competent valet. but they are booking him to be an absolutely boring generic monster. that's not going to work. he needs more than that to connect with a crowd for any extended period of time.
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Old 04-20-2014, 01:13 PM   #79
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Quote:
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so ryback is massively over with the crowd and should get a legit push because he is huge, but daniel bryan is massively over with the crowd and shouldn't get a push because he isn't huge? what does it matter if they are massively over? while i concede that i don't like ryback at all, they should have continued to push him as a monster because it was working. the crowd was eating it up. shouldn't the same concept apply to any wrestler regardless of physical stature? there is a place for wrestlers big and small if the booking handles it properly. that is the major issue here.
Ryback should get a push because the crowd was behind him. Bryan as well, but a big man who is over with the crowd should always take precedent over a small guy. the internet just hated Ryback because he got over so they make up any excuse, just like if a heel is over that they don't approve of is over because of "X Pac heat"
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Old 04-20-2014, 01:17 PM   #80
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always take precedent is silly.
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