11-27-2015, 11:19 AM | #321 |
boop/bop/beep
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Vince abd h being fairly savvy corporate men give corporate answers in out of character interviews spinning their narrative. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to put that together
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11-27-2015, 01:57 PM | #322 |
Gets Hardcore in the gym
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So remember a few months ago when all the "dirt sheets" said that Vince was letting go of the reigns and letting HHH book more of RAW? So is that what's happening or is everyone still blaming the "powers that be" for RAW's declining ratings?
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11-27-2015, 02:21 PM | #323 |
New Arcade God
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Vince wont let go till he is dead
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11-27-2015, 02:48 PM | #324 |
boop/bop/beep
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the dirtsheets are like any other sports reporters to be honest. they take whatever scoop they can get and run with it. You have to take it for what it's worth.
As a Jay's fan, right now, David Price has been reported (by reputable reporters no less) to be signing with about 32524 different teams and went from havng a chance to be back with the jays, to never a chance ever, to a bit more of a chance, to maybe kind of a chance. You have to do your best to sift through the bullshit. I personally think Meltzer does the best he can to be legit, but even he is incredibly full of shit like most reports 65 per cent of the time. |
11-27-2015, 02:59 PM | #325 | |
MVP Mark
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11-27-2015, 03:01 PM | #326 | |
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Nutty |
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11-27-2015, 03:09 PM | #327 | |
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What Meltzer and co have built a business around is outright lies and passing off the personal speculation as fact. For example the motivation behind not pushing certain guys. It would be like a sports reporter saying a GM is terrible because he didn't pull the trigger of a ficticious trade that was never presented. There are guys like that in real sports, but they are bloggers, and real media outlets would never awknowledge them because it's known they are full of crap. The problem is the Melter Bots just repeat what he "reports" as fact. |
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11-27-2015, 03:16 PM | #328 |
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No human being is perfect though Cynick, his motives are not pure money, everyone has their pride, arrogance and personal likes and dislikes to stop us from being robots.
Is it so strange to think that Vince might not have gone for certain things because they weren't his creations or characters, for example. He has proven, with the likes of Punk and Bryan that if he sees cash, he can be flexible, but it is unrealistic to think he hasn't made bad decisions based on other factors before. He is a genius, and is rightly heralded as such, but we have seen this before in WWE before WCW tackled them. Even the best of us get in a rut and get too comfortable. |
11-27-2015, 04:05 PM | #329 | |
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You can't compare real sports reporting to WWE reporting. Real sports reporters have actual access to the top coaches, players, staff, etc., through league mandated/required weekly press conferences, media days, etc. Not only that but many of the best sports coaches, teams, etc., are often highly secretive or sandbag reporters regarding game plans, deal negotiations, injuries, etc. With the exception of the NFL's mandatory injury reporting being the strictest regarding info that teams are required to disclose. WWE doesn't have mandatory weekly press conferences or media days with the upper level executives, talent or staff regarding game plans, deal negotiations, injuries, etc. WWE doesn't want to reveal their secrets or have a narrative get out that they don't control. There's no benefit to Vince or HHH answering questions about creative plans, etc. so they don't even allow the opportunity. There's also no benefit to the top coaches, talent, staff of real sports teams answering questions about game plans, etc. The difference is obviously most are required to provide the opportunity in real sports. Don't get me wrong, there are many WWE sites/"reporters", including guys like TPWW's own Ryan Clark who just subscribe to Meltzer's work and then re-write it and pass it off as there own like they have inside sources. Those guys are horrible. To disparage Meltzer as some kind of guy who doesn't have inside info is stupid though. His info isn't always solid but find me someone reporting on an industry as unique as pro wrestling and you'll find that often their sources aren't always accurate either. |
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11-27-2015, 04:07 PM | #330 |
MVP Mark
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Didn't HHH say in the Stone Cold podcast that its frustrating that the internet nerds know more about that is going on sometimes than the actual writers? Pretty sure that occurred in some form in the past year.
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11-27-2015, 06:12 PM | #331 |
Former TPWW Royalty
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Think that was just for anything Authority related since it directly impacted his character. If I remember, he gained a lot of control over Smackdown but not enough to fully revamp the show's status since RAW is still the main priority.
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11-27-2015, 06:29 PM | #332 |
Resident drug enabler
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I definitely think I am smarter than an out of touch 70 year old man who thinks that poop and fart jokes are the pinnacle of comedy. Now this Cynick character may scoff at that but he seems to share that 70 year old man's idea of what's entertaining so... I DUNNO *fart*
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11-27-2015, 06:56 PM | #333 | |
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Also, you do realize that Jim Cornette was right there at Vince McMahon's right-hand side during some of the most critical re-building periods the WWE has ever had, right? One could very easily make the argument that Vince never "created" a massive international star on his own either. He's given them platforms, which is what the role of an old-school booker was to do. What about Kevin Sullivan? He basically created Goldberg by using a Mike Tyson template. I'm not a massive hater of The Berg, but you can't deny that how he was presented was a large part of his success in the industry. It's really annoying when you do this "Vince is responsible for all the good; none of the bad" bullshit. It's also been widely reported that Vince does not have much input in NXT at all. Sure, he could shut it down in a second -- but let's not pretend he's running that show or a major creative influence. That's just not true. Your last paragraphs just ramble into nonsense. Apparently you should ask a racist if he racist or something. You're impossible. There is plenty of supported evidence that allows you to see a large picture of what the WWE culture is like, and what Vince McMahon's attitudes are towards certain things. |
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11-27-2015, 06:58 PM | #334 |
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This says all you need to know about the modern Vince McMahon, and where he feels priorities are:
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11-27-2015, 07:15 PM | #335 | |
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The fact that the format is the same, tired old thing each and every week just fucking sucks. It's bad television, as any writer could tell you. Redundancy is a cardinal sin, and I can't remember the last time a Stephanie McMahon promo had a point. In fact, last week she actually said "As you just said" to preface what she was saying. Fucking yawn. Maybe Bonnie Hammer or whatever her name is wants McMahons on television. Well, the McMahons can still explain that their appearances are worth more when they are sporadic. If that doesn't get through, you can still drip them in effectively over an episode, instead of the storytime segments off top. And that's down to Vince McMahon and Kevin Dunn. They think that is a "hook" at the start of their show in 2015. Okay, fine. Well, your hook is not fighting the downward trend in ratings. "Oh, but television is changing!" RAW is a live program designed for prime-time viewing on a Monday night. It's broken people's viewing habits, and people aren't watching live anymore. What happened to that experience? What happened to that "catch it as it happens" edge that the program used to have? Was it the hot-shotting of the Attitude era? Possibly, but there's no doubt that people are finding the product sterile. Is it overexposure and product fatigue? There are far more people who WANT to watch than are watching. Not everybody who likes watching wrestling is watching WWE, and that is a realistic grab of an audience they are missing. The other day, I heard a kid talking about Rey Mysterio and Shawn Michaels. Neither is involved in the WWE product currently. Are the WWE Network subscriptions for the current product, or are they for the nostalgia material? In the past, I've wanted to see guys pushed, only to later learn that they weren't really a great worker and I didn't understand the fuck-ups they were making. Attitude problems come to the surface. But that being said, it doesn't excuse the WWE for booking the current crop of guys they do SO FUCKING BADLY! I no longer care about them! That's not me saying "I could do better". I know a lot of people who could make me care about them more though. And I am a fan, I do have an opinion, I do have a critical eye for what I do and don't enjoy, so let me tell you -- the current WWE fucking sucks. I WISH it didn't. But it does. And the big problem is with them and not others. |
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11-27-2015, 08:28 PM | #336 | |
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So yeah, while creatively, I can think of something far better than the Katie Vick angle, or having to reference Reid Flair's death to appeal to the lowest common denominator... I also wouldn't really know how to coordinate with a producer how to piece a show together to ensure Brock Lesnar comes across as a star. I mean I'd get the idea of how to BOOK him like a star, but the logistics and the ins and outs make Vince a genius. It does go a little beyond the storylines... which I really wish it didn't. Plus as Chris Jericho has pointed out, there is that fine line b/w genius and madness, which Vince often crosses. Every 1000 shitty ideas he has and we're forced to stomach, he has one MONEY idea where every thing clicks and I could probably say I wouldn't be able to make that happen. I could maybe think of the idea, but I couldn't be the quarterback and make it happen. And I mean for every fart and poop joke that is terrible, when Vince is in character and on screen, he is pretty fucking hilarious. |
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11-27-2015, 08:55 PM | #337 | |
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No, I think at the end of the day Vince does what HE THINKS is what the fans want, because in the long run, thats best for business. The guy has THE MOST PROFITABLE company in the history of the entire industry. Thats not by accident. Its more than Punk and Bryan. In 2004 he pushed Eddie and Benoit. If you go by the Dirt Sheet Playbook, those guys had multiple strikes against them; "WCW guys", "midgets", one of them couldnt cut a promo if his life depended on it, etc. Yet somehow those guys were pushed to the moon. But since that doesnt fit into the narrative, its largely ignored. In all honesty, its overblown on here. The majority of people liked the low rent elements of the Attitude Era, and a result, they say the current era sucks. Ive been watching since the early to mid 80s, and I still enjoy it. But my opinion doesnt count because it goes against the Dirst Sheet Playbook. |
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11-27-2015, 08:58 PM | #338 |
Resident drug enabler
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From a business and marketing standpoint, he's well aware of what he's doing. That includes all the little production aspects. CyNick wants to throw a blanket reference to him being a genius out there as if his business smarts is directly related to his creative mind so if you think giving a diva a farting gimmick or ending a heavily-featured blood feud without explanation is retarded, YOU must be wrong because Vince can't be.
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11-27-2015, 09:01 PM | #339 |
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11-27-2015, 09:09 PM | #340 | |
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I've heard Triple H discuss backstage things in different setting. He was interviewed by Chris Jericho, and was very open about the behind the scenes happening. But what happens is when the Dirt Sheet guys get quotes that dont fit their narrative, they just ignore it as "well he's just working". I dont know why you are hating on Ryan. Anything I see posted gives credit to whatever publication they are pulling the info from. Its the guys like Dave (there are others too, I just mention him specifically because he's the top guy) that pass themselves off as "insiders", when the reality is they have no connections to the top levels of the creative workings of WWE. Survivor Series is one of probably 100 examples of shoddy reporting. The reports going into SurvSer was "WWE is deciding between Reigns and Ambrose for champion". When the tournament was first revealed, most people on here GUESSED that Reigns and Ambrose would end up in the Finals. I think Noid nailed the Final Four perfectly. Does that mean he's an "insider" or was it just the most logical booking? So the Dirst Sheet writers run with that GUESS and pass it off as "inside information". Then when they are WRONG, they backtrack and run with the classic excuse "well WWE changes their mind all the time, so there was chaos, and a last minute change resulted in Sheamus as champ". Why not just ask Vince or Hunter if there was a last minute change? Because it doesn't work with their narrative. |
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11-27-2015, 09:09 PM | #341 |
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I listened to that interview, I just dont recall the quote. Would need to know the context.
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11-27-2015, 09:14 PM | #342 | |
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I find it ironic that you are talking about a 70 year old man is out of touch, and you are in a thread that is talking about what a crisis it is that Monday's ratings have declined. You should read some recent articles about what major networks think about daily TV ratings that dont factor in DVR and Digital numbers. At least Vince has the excuse of being 70 years, whats your excuse for not understanding the paradigm shift in entertainment consumption. BTW - WWE is I believe the 5th most popular VOD service. Not bad for an out of touch 70 year old. |
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11-27-2015, 09:14 PM | #343 | |
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Another Vince creation. |
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11-27-2015, 09:20 PM | #344 | |
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Guys like Jericho and Austin do. Not only that, but by going on with Jericho or Austin, (especially on WWE Network) they can still control more of the the narrative. I.e., "Don't ask me any questions about future creative plans." I'm not saying HHH or Vince won't be honest when being interviewed by someone like Austin or Jericho, but it's always questions about things after the fact. In their interviews with HHH or Vince, Austin and Jericho aren't asking what the future creative plans are. In comparison, you can have reporters who know people working in the company who are privy to future/upcoming creative and/or business decisions who will share them prior to them occurring. |
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11-27-2015, 09:26 PM | #345 | |
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You know who else had a major contribution to WWE's success in the late 90s? Vince Russo. Notice he didnt make your Wall of Fame (doesnt fit the narrative, I know). Did you see what happened to him after he left Vince's wing? I did too, it wasnt pretty. Ive never once said "Vince is responsible for all the good and none of the bad". If I was an American, I would sue you for liable. But I'm a good natured Canadian, so I will let it pass. But hey, it upped your word count, so well done lad. NXT has been reported as Triple H's baby. Of course the NXT Triple H is a different person than the Dirt Sheet villain Triple H who buries everyone so he can push himself. I bet he's just building NXT so that he can book himself against the entire roster and Pedigree them all. That aside, the issue that gets lost is that NXT is a company wide effort. Triple H has said himself that NXT is meant to target a different audience from RAW and Smackdown. Quite frankly, booking to satisfy the passionate WWE fans is easier, but it likely wont appeal to the wider audience. Thats why its on the WWE Network, which is essentialy made up of all passionate fans. At the end of the day, if Vince thought it was crap, he wouldn't allow it on his Network. But he does, and he pushes it like crazy, and allows it to grow. Most interviews I've read of guys who were real players in WWE and would have had extensive experience with Vince usually have nothing but positive things to say about him. |
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11-27-2015, 09:26 PM | #346 |
boop/bop/beep
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Actually, when talking to the guys from New Day, Vince completely missed the mark with them, and it was those guys figuring it out on their own which made it happen. That is from their own mouths, not the dirtsheets.
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11-27-2015, 09:27 PM | #347 | |
boop/bop/beep
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11-27-2015, 09:27 PM | #348 | |
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Ive said his batting average is multiple times better than anyone else in the history of the business. |
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11-27-2015, 09:28 PM | #349 |
Resident drug enabler
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*poops on CyNick's head*
*is now best friends with CyNick for some reason* *farts* *sends genius post to Vince McMahon* *accepts job offer* |
11-27-2015, 09:30 PM | #350 |
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Cynick: "Yeah, but it doesn't matter that New Day said that. If it doesn't come directly from Vince or HHH, it isn't credible and didn't happen."
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11-27-2015, 09:31 PM | #351 | |
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I know what you are saying about Austin, but Austin asked him point blank about Cesaro, which was a thing that was ongoing at the time, and Vince gave an honest answer about his opinions and why he wasn't being pushed to the moon. It just shows how WWE doesn't respect the Dirst Sheet guys as legitimate reporters, because they are not. I can start a blog tomorrow about the NHL and get 100K followers. Doesnt mean Im going to get accredited to cover NHL games. |
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11-27-2015, 09:34 PM | #352 | |
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New Day is actually a shining example of guys who went out and grabbed the brass ring that Vince talks about. Just like when Vince put Hunter with Pac and The Outlaws, I dont think he envisioned they would do exactly what they did, but he gave them the platform, and they contributed creatively, and Vince gave it the green light. New Day is doing that today, just within the confines of a PG Universe. |
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11-27-2015, 09:35 PM | #353 |
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11-27-2015, 09:36 PM | #354 |
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11-27-2015, 09:36 PM | #355 |
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11-27-2015, 09:43 PM | #356 | ||
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What about me? I left a large, established law firm and now run my own large, successful firm. Does that mean I'm not really an attorney or less of an attorney? |
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11-27-2015, 09:46 PM | #357 |
Let me talk to ya
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CyNick has now been demoted from ZZ to VKM Kiss my Ass club photos.
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11-27-2015, 09:56 PM | #358 |
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11-27-2015, 09:58 PM | #359 |
boop/bop/beep
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11-27-2015, 09:58 PM | #360 |
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