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Old 12-04-2015, 08:13 AM   #441
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Tho for you to highlight cesaros holes and almost act as tho Nash has none comes as no surprise since you talk nonsense
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Old 12-04-2015, 09:10 AM   #442
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The only hole in Nash's game was underestimating his drawing power and sticking to arenas. Stadiums wouldn't been more appropriate.
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Old 12-04-2015, 09:23 AM   #443
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Could Nash put 200,000 in Cowboy's Stadium?
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Old 12-04-2015, 09:24 AM   #444
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Old 12-04-2015, 02:17 PM   #445
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I mean his.main hole was he just gave too much.
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Old 12-04-2015, 02:48 PM   #446
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At an indy show in my hometown this weekend, Nash/Hall/X-Pac are charging $65 to take a group photo with them. By comparison, a front row ticket to the actual show (which you'd have to buy separately) is $50.

They are still underselling themselves.
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Old 12-04-2015, 02:51 PM   #447
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cynick, send me pics
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Old 12-04-2015, 04:35 PM   #448
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
Most people on here cant see the larger picture.

Sting vs Hunter at Mania was used to sell future Monday Night Wars programming on WWE Network. Thats why they involved NWO (representing WCW and DX representing WWE). From thats standpoint alone it made sense for Hunter to win, because WWE won the war.

BEYOND THAT, you want to keep Hunter strong because he's going to work with Rollins at some point. And further, the story they were telling between Hunter (the teacher) and Rollins (the student), it hurts the story if Hunter looks weak right off the bat.

I personally dont think there was huge money in other Sting matches. I could be wrong, but the guy was in TNA for years, and its not like TNA ever had a really successful PPV that he was a part of. So I dont see where the evidence is that Sting was big time player. Thats the disconnect with some of you guys, you see Sting on the level of guys like Brock, Rock or Hunter, where I dont think the average fan does.
Sigh, one last time:

* It shouldn't have been used for that reason. Triple H was the heel; Sting was the face. The WWE vs. WCW thing doesn't make sense. If you defend what happens without acknowledging what shouldn't have happened, then you're not seeing as big a picture as you think you are, chum.

* Triple H is forever strong. He's not losing to JTG on Superstars.

* The fans do see Sting on that level -- your own argument works against you. That's why people care so much that the WWE fucked it up.

* If your modern 8-year old WWE fan doesn't? You MAKE them. It's fucking storytelling.
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Old 12-04-2015, 04:41 PM   #449
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
To play devils advocate, people on here do seem to take their favourites and when they don't get pushed to the moon, they chalk it up to creative bring inept. You rarely hear about the fact that Cesaro has holes in his game.
People talk about Cesaro's holes all the time. It doesn't mean he wasn't booked shitty.
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Old 12-08-2015, 08:13 PM   #450
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Originally Posted by Noid View Post
People talk about Cesaro's holes all the time. It doesn't mean he wasn't booked shitty.
He wasn't booked shitty

You do understand is a big deal to just be on RAW every week, right?
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Old 12-08-2015, 08:19 PM   #451
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Quote:
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Sigh, one last time:

* It shouldn't have been used for that reason. Triple H was the heel; Sting was the face. The WWE vs. WCW thing doesn't make sense. If you defend what happens without acknowledging what shouldn't have happened, then you're not seeing as big a picture as you think you are, chum.

* Triple H is forever strong. He's not losing to JTG on Superstars.

* The fans do see Sting on that level -- your own argument works against you. That's why people care so much that the WWE fucked it up.

* If your modern 8-year old WWE fan doesn't? You MAKE them. It's fucking storytelling.
So does that mean a heel can never beat a babyface in a big match?

Why would you invest an HHH loss for Sting, who at best would work 3-5 more matches in his career that are going to be throwaway matches. On the other hand you can use Sting, who has a name, create a special moment (Sting's Mania debut and the NWO v DX thing), sell the Monday Night Wars show on the Network, and keep HHH strong to eventually mean more when Rollins beats him?

It baffles me why people can't see the larger picture. I mean I know the reason. It's HHH, so you people think you have to hate anytime he goes over. It gets tiresome, but it is what it is
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Old 12-08-2015, 10:03 PM   #452
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We see the larger picture, were telling you the larger picture is stupid. You have a guy in Sting that could have been put over by HHH to then put over Rollins. Then you have Rollins vs HHH start from Rollins believing he is better than HHH because he could beat Sting and HHH couldn't.

The way it went down was just a waste of Sting, HHH, The NWO, and DX. It did nothing for Rollins as Sting had not been booked properly enough for that match to even matter let alone the fact that he just jobbed to Cena. All in all 2015 has been a pretty bad year as far as booking goes for WWE.
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Old 12-08-2015, 10:04 PM   #453
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Also I have no problem with HHH going over when its right for a story but him going over Sting wasn't one of those stories.
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Old 12-09-2015, 12:08 AM   #454
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Old 12-09-2015, 12:18 AM   #455
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
So does that mean a heel can never beat a babyface in a big match?

Why would you invest an HHH loss for Sting, who at best would work 3-5 more matches in his career that are going to be throwaway matches. On the other hand you can use Sting, who has a name, create a special moment (Sting's Mania debut and the NWO v DX thing), sell the Monday Night Wars show on the Network, and keep HHH strong to eventually mean more when Rollins beats him?

It baffles me why people can't see the larger picture. I mean I know the reason. It's HHH, so you people think you have to hate anytime he goes over. It gets tiresome, but it is what it is
I guess this guy doesn't read James Steele posts.
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Old 12-09-2015, 08:40 AM   #456
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Yep people hate HHH's guts thats why they heap endless praise on his show that's why we can't wait till Vince leaves and that's why Squared circle sent the guy a fruit basket pure, unbridled hatred of the IWC.
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Old 12-09-2015, 10:47 AM   #457
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Remember when people on the board were thinking if and actually liking the idea of Triple H getting the strap going to Mania 30 to be the one to put over Daniel Bryan. Such hatred.
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Old 12-09-2015, 07:24 PM   #458
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Bret proposed losing to anybody, including Shawn, once that two day period in Canada was over with. Bret handing the belt over was a suggestion that Vince agreed to, not an order, Vince had the same right to veto that Bret did, they could have worked out a better plan if he wanted to. Bret suggested it because his leaving got out in newspapers, hotlines and the internet anyway, and Vince agreed that since people knew anyway, it didn't matter if Bischoff announced it. I don't see how any of this is Vince backed into a corner.



This is an absolutely absurd comparison. It's not even remotely the same thing. Bret signed a huge deal because his value to his new employer was largely based on his strength in the Canadian market, which WCW had historically never done well in. Nash's value at Mania 12 is a wrestler on a wrestling show. Bret's value in Canada was his entire selling point from a negotiating perspective, and since he added reasonable creative control to specifically avoid being devalued on the way out, Bret saw dropping the belt in Canada to the guy who picked his nose with and fucked the Canadian flag as potentially damaging to his value. Anybody that argues against it using the "well what if I don't job in America" is either a complete idiot, or so badly want to be anti-Bret that they are flagrantly ignoring the obvious. Bret put that creative control clause in so he couldn't be downgraded. They put him in a position to be potentially downgraded. He suggested losing elsewhere where it wouldn't be so damaging.

And of all the fucking people to make a comparison to, Nash, a guy who refused to job tons of times for no rhyme or reason other than he didn't want to.
To me, this isnt a debate about what was legally acceptable. Essentially they both entered into a stupid agreement in which the most likely outcome would be a stalemate. The issue to me is whether Vince felt like he had to do what he did. To me, listening to the position of both parties, I feel like Vince's position was far more logical. The story of Bret leaving was already out. Fans at the house shows prior to Survivor Series knew he was leaving. Eric already had a track record, and its hard to imagine he would not have went on TV the Monday following Survivor Series and said "I just signed their champion". He didnt need Bret to be there. He didnt need Bret to dump the title in the trash. The damage would have been done with one promo - WCW is where the elite talent are, as evidence by their champion coming over here. So Bret's amazing suggestions, were worthless. The title had to be moved to Shawn at Survivor Series.

The idea that Bret was signed by WCW only because he was Canadian is absurd. The idea that Bret losing one match in Canada would result in him being any less of a draw in Canada is absurb. The idea that WCW had some grand scheme to open up Canada is absurd. How many events did WCW end up running in Canada? Bret was a MUCH bigger star thanks to what Vince did at Survivor Series, you would think WCW would have used Bret to sell out every city in Canada. They didnt, because WWE was always #1 in Canada. Bret leaving wasn't going to change that.

From what I've read over the years, Bret was one of the biggest headaches to deal with because he was such a master of the political game. But he never gets accused of it like guys like Hogan and Nash do. Bret is an egomaniac who thought the country would shut down if he lost a fucking worked fight in his home country. He's delusional.

As I said before, Nash did the right thing on his way out and Bret didnt. Nash was asked to put over two top guys multiple times on his way out. He did it, and did it with a smile on his face. Bret was asked to lose ONE match, and refused because he didnt like the guy across the ring from him. What a baby!
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Old 12-09-2015, 07:28 PM   #459
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We see the larger picture, were telling you the larger picture is stupid. You have a guy in Sting that could have been put over by HHH to then put over Rollins. Then you have Rollins vs HHH start from Rollins believing he is better than HHH because he could beat Sting and HHH couldn't.

The way it went down was just a waste of Sting, HHH, The NWO, and DX. It did nothing for Rollins as Sting had not been booked properly enough for that match to even matter let alone the fact that he just jobbed to Cena. All in all 2015 has been a pretty bad year as far as booking goes for WWE.
Wasnt a waste at all. Every report I read was that people enjoyed the surprise of seeing those guys live. Made for a special moment.

The storyline with Rollins doesnt work if HHH is constantly losing. He just came off a year where he did nothing but count lights - against Bryan and The Shield. At some point he needed to get his heat back if he's going to be setting a bar for Rollins to live up to as champion. The payoff for a HHH v Rollins match would have been a Mania caliber match. The payoff for Sting (had he won) vs Rollins would have been at best a B show like Extreme Rules.
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Old 12-09-2015, 07:28 PM   #460
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cynick, pics
lol its my New Year's Resolution to consider positing them.
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Old 12-09-2015, 07:29 PM   #461
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Yep people hate HHH's guts thats why they heap endless praise on his show that's why we can't wait till Vince leaves and that's why Squared circle sent the guy a fruit basket pure, unbridled hatred of the IWC.
People love HHH the NXT guy, but hate HHH the in ring WWE performer. Well, that is when he wins. God forbid the guy wins a match.
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Old 12-09-2015, 07:37 PM   #462
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I wanted HHH to beat Bryan at Mania and have a Evolution main event, but that's just because I couldn't stand Daniel Bryan.
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Old 12-09-2015, 07:44 PM   #463
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People love HHH the NXT guy, but hate HHH the in ring WWE performer. Well, that is when he wins. God forbid the guy wins a match.
Yeah he's really hard done by
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Old 12-09-2015, 08:25 PM   #464
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I wanted HHH to beat Bryan at Mania and have a Evolution main event, but that's just because I couldn't stand Daniel Bryan.
Which is fine, but puts you in the minority. I'm just saying most people get their backs up against the wall when he wins a match.
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Old 12-09-2015, 08:26 PM   #465
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Yeah he's really hard done by
Who said he is?

He's a multi millionaire and will inherit a billion dollar business. He doesn't care if those types of fans hate him.
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Old 12-09-2015, 08:30 PM   #466
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Which brings me to my next question. Defend HHH beating Punk during the summer of punk when there was no reason for H to win.

Well no reason other than the reason you will surely make up.
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Old 12-09-2015, 08:37 PM   #467
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Which brings me to my next question. Defend HHH beating Punk during the summer of punk when there was no reason for H to win.

Well no reason other than the reason you will surely make up.
Oh you don't know. The legend... HHH... the guy who feuded with top guys like Rock, Austin, Taker, HBK, Cena and Lesnar and essentially retired Mick Foley and is considered by most to be one of the top superstars of the Attitude Era... he needed that win to get his heat back, or maintain his heat... or something...
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Old 12-09-2015, 08:40 PM   #468
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Well yeah he needed to look strong for his feud against Kevin Nash.
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Old 12-09-2015, 08:54 PM   #469
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How does Sting beating HHH hurt HHH? If your long term goal is HHH vs Rollins, you can still have Rollins go over Sting, who now looks a bit more credible challenging for a world title in 2015 because he beat The Game and then have Rollins work that into his HHH feud, simple jab like "Well I beat Sting, did you?" and you have a plot point there. Instead neither guy gets any kind of rub from Sting because he's evidently a massive jobber and there's nothing to draw from. Filler. HHH is the heel authority figure, he's not going to lose his heat just because he loses his one match a year after going over nearly every week.
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Old 12-09-2015, 10:19 PM   #470
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Which brings me to my next question. Defend HHH beating Punk during the summer of punk when there was no reason for H to win.

Well no reason other than the reason you will surely make up.
I'm sure you like CM Punk and buy into his own hype, but he never reached the level HHH did, so I have no problem with HHH going over Punk because H is the bigger star.

If you look at the Mania plans for that year, that was heading into the Taker-HHH Hell in a Cell Match. You need HHH to be strong for that. That was the period where it could be argued The Streak was the biggest thing on the show, bigger than the title. I believe that was also the show with Cena-Rock, so at best Punk was going to be in the #3 hole.

So yeah, from a pecking order standpoint, it made perfect sense. The loss didnt hurt Punk in the slightest.
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Old 12-09-2015, 10:25 PM   #471
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How does Sting beating HHH hurt HHH? If your long term goal is HHH vs Rollins, you can still have Rollins go over Sting, who now looks a bit more credible challenging for a world title in 2015 because he beat The Game and then have Rollins work that into his HHH feud, simple jab like "Well I beat Sting, did you?" and you have a plot point there. Instead neither guy gets any kind of rub from Sting because he's evidently a massive jobber and there's nothing to draw from. Filler. HHH is the heel authority figure, he's not going to lose his heat just because he loses his one match a year after going over nearly every week.
First, HHH had lost multiple matches prior to The Sting match. You can only take so many consecutive losses before you lose shine.

Second, the storyline with Rollins was HHH is like having Tom Brady as a mentor. You are trying to live up to someone who has achieved everything there is to achieve. If HHH had lost to Sting, and Rollins beat Sting, you are telling a different story. HHH isnt Tom Brady, he's like Phillip Rivers, good, but not great. So, great, Rollins can beat someone who is above average. Thats not nearly as effective as him beating someone who is presented as a true legend.

Third, Sting wasnt going to be around. If Sting was scheduled to work 6 months, and go on the road, sure it would make sense. But he was never going to do that.
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Old 12-09-2015, 10:26 PM   #472
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Quote:
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I'm sure you like CM Punk and buy into his own hype, but he never reached the level HHH did, so I have no problem with HHH going over Punk because H is the bigger star.

If you look at the Mania plans for that year, that was heading into the Taker-HHH Hell in a Cell Match. You need HHH to be strong for that. That was the period where it could be argued The Streak was the biggest thing on the show, bigger than the title. I believe that was also the show with Cena-Rock, so at best Punk was going to be in the #3 hole.

So yeah, from a pecking order standpoint, it made perfect sense. The loss didnt hurt Punk in the slightest.
Why is it you think that anytime HHH wins we lose our shit?This isn't hard to understand, when it makes sense for him to win you won't hear a peep from all but the most anti of HHH fans. But the situations we've all pointed to it makes NO sense that he walked away with a victory that does not equate to "we never want him to win a match because he is wrestling's Satan " And as for HHH v Taker no one wanted to see that as it had been done already(didn't mean much then and meant nothing now and HHH isn't on the level of an HBK v Taker or Sting v Taker.
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Old 12-09-2015, 10:34 PM   #473
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Why is it you think that anytime HHH wins we lose our shit?This isn't hard to understand, when it makes sense for him to win you won't hear a peep from all but the most anti of HHH fans. But the situations we've all pointed to it makes NO sense that he walked away with a victory that does not equate to "we never want him to win a match because he is wrestling's Satan " And as for HHH v Taker no one wanted to see that as it had been done already(didn't mean much then and meant nothing now and HHH isn't on the level of an HBK v Taker or Sting v Taker.
Did you actually see HHH vs Taker? Crowd seemed to enjoy it. Mania did a big buyrate.

Curious to see where you got your "no one wanted to see that" information from.

I just explained why HHH beating Punk made sense. #2 match participant beats #3 match participant.
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Old 12-10-2015, 12:09 AM   #474
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I'm sure you like CM Punk and buy into his own hype, but he never reached the level HHH did, so I have no problem with HHH going over Punk because H is the bigger star.

If you look at the Mania plans for that year, that was heading into the Taker-HHH Hell in a Cell Match. You need HHH to be strong for that. That was the period where it could be argued The Streak was the biggest thing on the show, bigger than the title. I believe that was also the show with Cena-Rock, so at best Punk was going to be in the #3 hole.

So yeah, from a pecking order standpoint, it made perfect sense. The loss didnt hurt Punk in the slightest.
lmfao
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Old 12-10-2015, 12:19 AM   #475
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I just explained why HHH beating Punk made sense. #2 match participant beats #3 match participant.
So wait, with the exception of Cena, no current main event guys can beat the previous generations main event guys?

Yeah, that will help get new talent over with the crowd and over the hump.
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Old 12-10-2015, 12:35 AM   #476
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Did you actually see HHH vs Taker? Crowd seemed to enjoy it. Mania did a big buyrate.
Yea they came to see Taker fight HHH again not John Cena facing the The Rock for the first time lol.

big byrate all thanks to HHH.
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Old 12-10-2015, 12:45 AM   #477
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Are you seriously downplaying the awesomeness of the HIAC match at WM28?
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Old 12-10-2015, 01:09 AM   #478
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No. It was fun to watch but neither of his encounters meant much when compared to HBK v Taker which was built as two men with something to lose and HBK desperate to do the seemingly impossible.

HHH v Taker first encounter was about HHH defending the honor of his fallen man-crush
the second was about Taker showing his dominance.

Neither had much weight add to that the fact that he has in fact beaten HHH before and going up against a Cena V Rock match well.....
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Old 12-10-2015, 01:21 AM   #479
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Lol big buyrate. I guess the Rock wrestling for the first time at Mania in 8 years and closing the show for the first time since WM17 (11years) wasn't the draw there. Jesus.
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Old 12-10-2015, 01:26 AM   #480
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I also can't see the value in having CM Punk, the hottest act they had that year, losing to a pretty much semi retired Triple H, who shortly went right back on the shelf after winning the match. Completely needless. Punk was clearly the number 2 in the company. What logic is there to have him lose on a B show to a semi retired wrestler? Where does that forward the business on a budding star the company was in desperate need of?
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